Do you c-bet here?

[iheartponeez]

21/12/6

$0.25/$0.5 No Limit Holdem
6 players
Converted at weaktight.com (http://weaktight.com/)

Stacks:
UTG (<font color="#0000cc">$39.75</font>)
UTG+1 (<font color="#0000cc">$16.15</font>)
CO (<font color="#0000cc">$61.40</font>)
Hero (<font color="#0000cc">$54.35</font>)
SB (<font color="#0000cc">$48.10</font>)
BB (<font color="#0000cc">$50.30</font>)

Pre-flop: ($0.75, 6 players) Hero is BTN 4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif 4/images/graemlins/heart.gif
UTG calls $0.5, UTG+1 calls $0.5, <font color="#777777">1 fold</font>, <font color="#cc0000">Hero raises to $3</font>, <font color="#777777">2 folds</font>, UTG calls $2.5, <font color="#777777">UTG+1 folds</font>

Flop: Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif T/images/graemlins/heart.gif 9/images/graemlins/club.gif ($7.25, 2 players)
UTG checks, Hero...

So do you cbet? I figure that Jx calls, obviously xhxh and Qx calls. I dunno what folds here except AK or pockets. But do you cbet, because a UTG limp is often low pockets, I think. Or do I just give up?

[whyzze]

[ QUOTE ]
cbet, because a UTG limp is often low pockets, and they may be higher than 44

[/ QUOTE ]

[iheartponeez]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
cbet, because a UTG limp is often low pockets, and they may be higher than 44

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[/ QUOTE ]

You don't worry about the fact that almost any broadway hand is calling me, and once called, I sort of have to shut down?

[Berky]

Cbet all day everday

[iheartponeez]

Okay. So what board don't I c-bet? If the 9 was a K?

[whyzze]

[ QUOTE ]
Okay. So what board don't I c-bet? If the 9 was a K?

[/ QUOTE ]

put yourself at utg and him on the button.

[Berky]

If I am headsup I CBET almost every flop and if the flop is draw heavy I might even fire another barrel on the turn and watch him fold

[billip62]

terrible board, I'd probably just check and hope to spike a 4, if it doesn't come I'm done with the hand.

That board hits so much of the limpers range that I just can't see a c-bet being profitable here. I'm going to try and pokerstove it (just dled it).

[ceavou22]

I'm pretty sure this is a bad board to c-bet as it is very hittable + too many draws will call.

[iheartponeez]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Okay. So what board don't I c-bet? If the 9 was a K?

[/ QUOTE ]

put yourself at utg and him on the button.

[/ QUOTE ]

Are you saying that not c-betting ought to be saved for when I'm OOP?

If this is what you're getting at, then if I get called here, and it's checked to me on the turn, am I just playing c/f the rest of the way?

[whyzze]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Okay. So what board don't I c-bet? If the 9 was a K?

[/ QUOTE ]

put yourself at utg and him on the button.

[/ QUOTE ]

Are you saying that not c-betting ought to be saved for when I'm OOP?

If this is what you're getting at, then if I get called here, and it's checked to me on the turn, am I just playing c/f the rest of the way?

[/ QUOTE ]

if he calls, and turn bricks, its a good spot to fire again.

[billip62]

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 25.260% 23.71% 01.55% 46719 3045.50 { 4d4h }
Hand 1: 74.740% 73.19% 01.55% 144200 3045.50 { TT-22, AJs-A8s, KTs+, QTs+, J9s+, T9s, 98s, 87s, 76s, 65s, AJo-A8o, KTo+, QTo+, JTo, T9o }

basically you're way behind (assuming I did this alright) and it's very likely he hit a hand.

[orange]

c-betting and check/folding are both fine here, depends on alot of factors.

[Berky]

Lol he limped utg he often has 22-88 here. Even maybe a weak ten. Bet the flop and if the turn bricks I fire a second barrel and if the river bricks I check and rake the pot with 44 when he missed his draw.

[iheartponeez]

[ QUOTE ]
Lol he limped utg he often has 22-88 here. Even maybe a weak ten. Bet the flop and if the turn bricks I fire a second barrel and if the river bricks I check and rake the pot with 44 when he missed his draw.

[/ QUOTE ]

But if he ever leads, you fold?

[Berky]

yes

[ICMoney]

I'm prob done with the hand.

[gregorio]

I always cbet here. Flop completely missed you, but you can rep so many hands here, because this hits your range. More of the hands you're raising PF are going to be broadways than low pocket pairs. Most of the hands he's limping are underpairs and low SCs. So your PF range hits this board more than his does. An uncordinated board with low cards is harder to cbet, because villain is more likely not to believe you, and it is more likely to hit him and get your c/r'd. Here, he misses flop more often than not, and he has to fold everytime he misses. If you cbet and you have to take it down less than 1/2 the time to show profit.

[gregorio]

[ QUOTE ]
Okay. So what board don't I c-bet? If the 9 was a K?

[/ QUOTE ]
If Q were 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif. Then he calls with so many hands and c/r's lots too.

[iheartponeez]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Okay. So what board don't I c-bet? If the 9 was a K?

[/ QUOTE ]
If Q were 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif. Then he calls with so many hands and c/r's lots too.

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I don't follow, like what?

[gregorio]

First off, I think he is less likely to believe a flop of T/images/graemlins/heart.gif 9/images/graemlins/club.gif 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif hits you than a flop with 2 broadways, so he is more likely to just think you are betting to cbet. That flop isn't very scarey for him in terms of your range.

Also, I think his limp/call range is something like 66-99, maybe TT, Axs, 56s, 67s, 78s, 89s, 9Ts, TJs. None of these hands are going away on the flop, and lots are c/r-ing. This range could be off. I'm more used to seeing people limp/call with VPIPs of 30-40 instead of low 20s. But I think his limp/call range is more weighted to hands like the ones I suggested above, rather than broadways. But even if he has broadways, he's calling with lots of them on T 9 6 board because he has overs or draws. I just don't see many hands he limp/calls with and folds on T/images/graemlins/heart.gif 9/images/graemlins/club.gif 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif, and I think he folds lots more with a Q on the flop instead of a 6.

In general, if I don't cbet,it is on flops with low cards with draws, because I get called and c/r on these way more often (also, b/c when I watch videos of good players, these are the flops they say they are most likely not to cbet).

[Inf1n1tY]

no im not c-beting this flop; w/o stats on the villian.

[corsakh]

cbetting here is a huge leak
huuuuuuuuge

[infinity235]

[ QUOTE ]
cbetting here is a huge leak
huuuuuuuuge

[/ QUOTE ]

explain please. I think cbetting here is fine.

[thoman8r]

I probably c-bet this unless the villain's Fold to Continuation Bet % is low or I have been c-betting a lot and I think villain's noticed.

[corsakh]

Middle coordinated boards hit a limp/caller almost 200% of the time. If your cbet gets called, you have absolutely no room for maneuver on later streets because 90% of the deck is a scare card for you. Even when you hit your miracle, you may still be well behind.

[infinity235]

I expect a limp/calling 21/12/6 guy to have a small PP most of the time here... so doing the math it probably is +EV to cbet.

Why would UTG ever limp middle cards and then call a raise OOP? You're so exposed to being dominated and can't play a draw well without position.

[corsakh]

Q5s is my lucky hand. What you gonna do about it, punk? I calls.

ps 20/10 is exactly the type who overcall SC and Axs without regard of position. This is "the feature" of most 20/10's.

[ama0330]

If I am villain I call any two cards and thank you kindly for shipping the pot on the turn/river

[corsakh]

Attention uNL: sneaky Ama limps UTG.

[yegon]

I wouldn't cbet this. If he checks again on the turn I might take a stab 1/2 pot or something.

And I agree that a Th9c6h is even worse.

[gregorio]

[ QUOTE ]
Attention uNL: sneaky Ama limps UTG.

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I was just thinking the same thing.

[ QUOTE ]
If I am villain I call any two cards and thank you kindly for shipping the pot on the turn/river

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If you are villain, are you ever open limping and then calling a raise? I assume people who do aren't thinking about floating OOP to take down the pot on the turn/river.

[dlorc]

Cbet like $4.5

[comfortably_numb]

A little read dependent...I usually c-bet this with at 5-6$
to try and take the pot right there. If you saw villain fold sometimes after limping in early position than it's a good chance to stab at the pot. Getting called, I'm almost done on turn. If turn is 2,3,4,5 or 6 I shoot a second barrel, to represent hitting flop already...any card &gt; 6 I'd check/fold turn.

[LOwrestling2001]

ama so this is a good floating board? (is that what you meant by your comment?)

[infinity235]

That's what he means.

But likewise, ama is a great player and likes floating OOP... I don't think many player have the skill and experience to pull this one off.

[whyzze]

lol at floating this OOP. By the average response in this thread you can tell how absolutely spew that is.


Basically, fire 2 barrels
??????
profit