TPTK 3 bet pot ~200 bb deep

[Profish2285]

Villain is a regular at these limits. He runs at 16/13/3.3 over a fairly large sample. I really dont think he has a flush as I cant think of any hands that he could possibly take this line with that would make a flush. The only hand that I can think of that beats me is AA here. I dont think he 3 bets my UTG raise with a suited connector.

Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (5 handed) Full Tilt (http://www.flopturnriver.com/reviews/Online-Poker-FullTilt.php#converter) Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (http://www.flopturnriver.com) (Format: 2+2 Forums)

saw flop|<font color="#C00000">saw showdown</font>

<font color="#C00000">BB ($94.30)</font>
<font color="#C00000">Hero ($103.90)</font>
MP ($88.25)
Button ($53.80)
SB ($48.75)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with A/images/graemlins/club.gif, K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
<font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $2</font>, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">BB raises to $7.5</font>, Hero calls $5.

Flop: ($14.75) 5/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">BB bets $9</font>, Hero calls $9.

Turn: ($32.75) 3/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $19</font>, <font color="#CC3333">BB raises to $78.3 (All-In)</font>, Hero....

[hockeyf]

You played it good, but this is a fold. I have no idea what he is playing but I fold this to a regular, i have a hard time thinking how would this with a worse Ax/diamond.

[Profish2285]

Just so I can say this, if I cant put villain on a hand, I am calling. His line makes no sense to me at all. I dont like folding if I have no idea what he has because he is playing weird. Like I said, the only hand I can think of that is beating me is AA tbh. I am fairly confident he wont 3 bet light vs a utg raise especially since I run fairly tight. He also wont 3 bet a small pocket pair pf for the same reasons as the sc. My first thought when I saw this was that he had AK as well. The more I think about it, I guess he could do this with AQ with the Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif. If he has either of those hands then folding here is a gigantic mistake.

[Profish2285]

shameless bump

[TheBobn]

I tend to call in this spot, and more often that not i'm drawing to 9 outs with one card coming.

The fact that he RR you preflop without any callers in between(as a squeeze) makes his hand look more like a premium, which would lead me to believe he has either AK with no diamond or AAA trying to protect his hand.

I probably call, but I cry about it

[corsakh]

You are deep. All your reasoning about what he can and what he can not have is out the window. He knows your hand yet he shoves. He does not think he has any FE here. I think its a fold.

Turn is a check btw. Only bet it if you are snap calling.

[johnnybeef]

Folding this is pretty bad.

edit: sorry, i forgot the unl mods sucked. folding this is pretty bad unless you have a read that says "never raises turn or later without a flush or better." you are getting almost 2:1 and have a nut redraw. basically, against his range, this call may be a marginal mistake, but never a horrible one. conversely a fold could be a horrible mistake.

[Berky]

Betting the turn is fine, i call a shove here.

[Malifous]

Post results! I play it the same as above posters.

[Profish2285]

FWIW I thought villains line made absolutely no sense as he is a reg and couldnt think of a hand that a reg would do this with. Any hand he had that beat me I thought he would bet into me. He couldnt expect me to have a hand like QQ/JJ and hope I would bet it for him. I ended up snap calling and he showed QQ with the Q of diamonds.

[minSim]

You have to call this

[Nick Royale]

Snap. Bet/folding the turn is a crime.

[daboytim]

No one 4bets this preflop when we are so deep? Postflop we are most likely only getting action if we are beat if we hit an A or K.

[Waingro]

[ QUOTE ]
Folding this is pretty bad.

edit: sorry, i forgot the unl mods sucked. folding this is pretty bad unless you have a read that says "never raises turn or later without a flush or better." you are getting almost 2:1 and have a nut redraw. basically, against his range, this call may be a marginal mistake, but never a horrible one. conversely a fold could be a horrible mistake.

[/ QUOTE ]
I echo this sentiment. If you feel villain doesn´t get "creative" pf you are only behind exactly one combo of AA. I can´t fold here and I expect to shown a hand that contains the Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif a decent portion of the time. Also, bet/folding the turn kind of sucks.

Edit: Scouts honour, didn´t see results.

[munkey]

IDK but I check the turn here deep with big hand and outs to the nutz and then am certainly betting on the river.

ye he probably doesn't have a flush - prob a set but may be a pair+ worse diamond like AQ /images/graemlins/diamond.gif I think you see AK/AQ /images/graemlins/diamond.gif sets and think your slightly behind but dont have PStove to check it out.

BTW ironically I would prob shove here @ table but I've been spewing in 3bet pots so need to review my play away from the table so my considered view is to check turn /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[AZplaya]

who is villian?

[Profish2285]

Villain in hand is ch_13

[AZplaya]

I would 4 bet this pre against ch_13, and probably be happen to get it in pre flop even for 200BB's. He's 3 and 4 bets super light. As played, snap call the turn.

[Profish2285]

Wow thanks for that info I will use that next time.

[kylephilly]

I'm calling but I'm not happy about it. Any chance villain has a set here that isn't AA or would he not 3bet that pre?

[Profish2285]

Well I dont think any sane tag is going to 3 bet 33, 55, or 66 vs a UTG raise from another tag. I run at 17/15 and since hes a reg he probably has pt as well.

[Babalatexi]

This doesn't make sense on villain's part with a hand that beats you other than AA and even then it's weird. He cbets like he should but when the flush hits he check-raises, as if looking for maximum F/E. The only hand I see he could play like this is AA or AQ/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, perhaps AK if he's tricky. He could turn a pp with a diamond into a bluff but I really doubt that. Even IF he 3-bet your UTG raise light with a sc, I don't see why he'd c/r the turn instead of betting out straight. Since AA is the only "logical" hand we lose to I call this.

[Genesis]

I already read all the replies and agree with the call after betting, but I would've checked the turn through. The basic reason is to avoid this spot entirely. If we're behind we have 9, maybe a few more, outs. If we're ahead he's got 2 or 3 outs usually. I only bet this turn when I feel comfortable calling the raise.

[DarkMagus]

Yeah I definitely think you need to check the turn, and probab ly call/bet river, especially with a villian this tight who's probably not calling turn with a worse hand but may call a vbet on the river with like AQ or KK. And of course you have a nut draw if behind.

[Profish2285]

Well I mean I was comfortable calling the turn, thats why I snap called it. Just wanted to make sure Im not spewing by snap calling in these spots. I hate checking behind what could easily be the best hand and giving him a free draw to his 2 outs regardless. So a queen hits the river, he bets 1/2 pot and now I fold? I would rather avoid THAT spot.

[Daniel LeClaire]

You already posted results but I'm calling this all day, especially with the nut flush draw. Like you said you are only behind AA. More likely he has a big pair + /images/graemlins/diamond.gif

[TheChad]

read OP, rest tl;dr
if he's a good reg, this could be a couple of things. A set or a FD. I do one of two things, raise the flop (see if he did set up) or shut down on the turn (FD or set has you beat). Often, good players will lead with both.

[ICMoney]

[ QUOTE ]
Villain in hand is ch_13

[/ QUOTE ]

I love playing against him.

That dude is such a fish.

I'm calling against him.

This is a hand against him from last night.

Full Tilt Poker, $0.25/$0.50 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 6 Players
LeggoPoker.com (http://www.leggopoker.com) - Hand History Converter (http://www.leggopoker.com/hh)

UTG: $51.25
MP: $67.40
CO: $50
BTN: $48.75
SB: $30.65
Hero (BB): $52.10

CO posts $0.50
Pre-Flop: 6http://www.legopoker.com/hh/images/diamond.gif 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif dealt to Hero (BB)
UTG folds, <font color="red">MP raises to $2.25</font>, 3 folds, Hero calls $1.75

Flop: ($5.25) A/images/graemlins/heart.gif 6http://www.legopoker.com/hh/images/club.gif Qhttp://www.legopoker.com/hh/images/diamond.gif (2 Players)
Hero checks, <font color="red">MP bets $3</font>, <font color="red">Hero raises to $12</font>, <font color="red">MP raises to $65.15 and is All-In</font>, Hero calls $37.85 and is All-In

Turn: ($104.95) 3/images/graemlins/heart.gif (2 Players - 1 is All-In)

River: ($104.95) 7http://www.legopoker.com/hh/images/diamond.gif (2 Players - 1 is All-In)

Results: $104.95 Pot ($3 Rake)
MP showed Ahttp://www.legopoker.com/hh/images/club.gif Jhttp://www.legopoker.com/hh/images/diamond.gif (a pair of Aces) and LOST (-$52.10 NET)
Hero showed 6http://www.legopoker.com/hh/images/diamond.gif 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif (three of a kind, Sixes) and WON $101.95 (+$49.85 NET)

[john voight]

i'd prolly never call this.
i'd also check the turn.

I dont see a reason to bet turn.

[bored]

[ QUOTE ]
Villain in hand is ch_13

[/ QUOTE ]

Turbo snap insta call.

[ICMoney]

Forget to add I have him at 25/10 over 700 hands.

He 3b oop pf.

The only hand you are losing to is AA.

The A /images/graemlins/diamond.gif and K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif are both out so I don't see him defending with QJ /images/graemlins/diamond.gif or something.

He has QQ /images/graemlins/diamond.gif JJ/images/graemlins/diamond.gif or something stupid.

[ICMoney]

Oh, and don't crowd my table when I'm gunning for CH_13.

Dude's down like $900 or something.

Thanks.

[orange]

betting this turn with the intention of folding to a raise doesnt seem good at all.

[Profish2285]

Orange: When I bet the turn the idea of folding never even crossed my mind tbh. His line made no sense to me at all and I was glad to see that I was right. I just wanted to see if everyone or the majority agreed with me or if I just got lucky and ran into the bottom of his range.

ICMoney: Hahaha I didnt think he was that bad cuz of his stats but never really paid attention to him. I have him at 16/13 on a sample well over 3k hands.

[john voight]

I dont know ch well enough, but I think I might have played w/ him at NL30 deep alot (cant recall). I play w/ him no at NL50 though.

What u need to realize is; calling the all in is a giant spew over the long run. I can see AK taking this line, in which case you are the biggest favorite in history of game, but to think that only AK and a bluff are capable of taking this line is foolish.

If your not capable of calling raise on turn, dont bet it. IDK why you are playing this big of a pot so thin. I mean your not giving up much by checking. And if you really think you can get called by worse hand you can go ahead and vbet river (it'd be much less likely for him to check turn and then cr river IMO)

But you need to think about this when you are playing deep. I mean its not just a little 50bb pot where you easily commit. This is my opinion. IDK.

[john voight]

but if evryone says call, then i guess vs ch calling is correct, but vs unknown this is still a giant spew IMO

[Profish2285]

Against what I thought was a standard tag, his line made no sense at all like I said. I doubt a tag is going to 3 bet with any hand that makes a set here other than AA. Seeing as there is only one combo of AA but obviously enough random hands in his range, I thought I had to call. BTW, I never said he was unknown, I go alot by stats especially when theyre over a fairly large sample and his stats suggested he plays a nitty/tag game. I did think it was thin at the time, but just because its thin doesnt make it wrong. And I dont know why everyone keeps saying if im not capable of calling the turn then dont bet it because I said I snap called. I just like to re evaluate my big hands, didnt see a problem with that.

[ICMoney]

So did he have AA or Q /images/graemlins/diamond.gifQ?

[Profish2285]

QQ

[ICMoney]

[ QUOTE ]
QQ

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, that's what I thought.

Dude is an ATM.

Ship it.

[john voight]

wow. that is a sick read ICM
I guess i overestimated the 3b range by villain.

and also the postflop retardedness /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[AZplaya]

[ QUOTE ]
wow. that is a sick read ICM

[/ QUOTE ]
I have the same read so I'd say its probably pretty accurate.

[Profish2285]

You guys really think this is spew against an "unknown" with those stats though? I really dont think many 16/13's are showing up with anything other than AA, AQ, AK, or a lower pocket pair. Seeing as how I dominate that range how can a call be bad on this turn?

[john voight]

well I played maybe 100 or 150k hands of NL30(deep), and i'd say in my experience AK wouldn't be taking the pot down here usually. But I am strictly talking NL30.

Now, taht may be due to the fact that there isnt alot of 3 betting, so ppl show up w/ random [censored]. I guess w/ the heavy 3 betting from TAGs at NL50 you can narrow down the range. Where as when somoen cold calls, they may have anything. So maybe i overlooked that aspect.

I am currently transitioning form deepstakc tables to short tables, b/c I have been on tilt. So I am not used to the action at NL50.

[ICMoney]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
wow. that is a sick read ICM

[/ QUOTE ]
I have the same read so I'd say its probably pretty accurate.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hey AZ:

http://img118.imageshack.us/img118/9239/congratswallpaper192014jz0.th.jpg (http://img118.imageshack.us/my.php?image=congratswallpaper192014jz0.jpg)

[Profish2285]

Oh yea I can say that NL50 is definitely fairly aggro and with that of course there is a decent amount of 3 betting.