Executing Child Rapists

[JMAnon]

[TheCutter]

Personally I do not want to kill anyone. I wouldn't mind to see them executed by the government/justice system however, or by some random person who just doesn't like child rapists. Which do I vote?

[FortunaMaximus]

Yes by extension, I suppose.

I find such crimes despicable and would rather have a month with the individual. I'll happily spare the details. A child's innocence has high value in my personal morality.

[jogsxyz]

I also favor executing the rapist even when he's criminally insane.

[bocablkr]

Yes, but what is your point?

[mickeyg13]

I don't believe in the death penalty even for terrible, atrocious crimes. I once went to a presentation on the death penalty involving a couple whose child was murdered and a single father whose child was murdered. The couple was in favor of the death penalty, but their daughter was very much against it, so they asked that the killer not be given the death penalty, but I think their plea fell on deaf ears. The single father was I believe always against the death penalty, and he didn't even want it to be used on the murderer of his teenage son. In fact, this man had the courage to meet his son's killer, and he now believes the killer has truly repented. It was a very powerful presentation. Anyway I'm pretty sure I won't convince anyone here to change their mind, but I hate the death penalty (and I'm neither Democrat nor Republican FWIW).

[JMAnon]

[ QUOTE ]
Yes, but what is your point?

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't have one; it is a poll to gauge sentiment.

[FortunaMaximus]

I voted no because:

While life has differing value, there is such a thing as individual redemption. Harming and executing such a criminal is not the answer, but breaking and perhaps reforming him psychologically is.

As such, this cannot be done yet, but should be considered.

If only because simply executing the individual does not repair the harm to the child. Imprisoning him does not rectify the damage either.

Psychiatry is not yet knowledgeable enough to fully reform individuals, but I think in time such reprogramming would be possible.

Sounds like anathema to individual freedom, but it's not. It's difficult to implement such measures in an open society, however. I'm not suggesting a totaliarian society, but a more progressive one.

Today, it's probably best to break him mentally and leave him to suffer the consequences.

[foal]

at a gut level I might want to kill them, but I still am against execution.

[hitch1978]

[ QUOTE ]
Personally I do not want to kill anyone. I wouldn't mind to see them executed by the government/justice system however, or by some random person who just doesn't like child rapists. Which do I vote?

[/ QUOTE ]

I am kind opposite to this.

I am against the death penalty, and would not want to use it in this case, but, in the situation you descride I would very much want to murder the person involved. Slowly preferably. However that would be an emotional thing and not rational.

[bbbaddd]

The motivation to prey on a helpless individual for the sake of your own sadistic enjoyment is sickening. I'd feel not an ounce of pity for a child rapist meeting a gruesome and agonizing demise, even if they were mentally handicapped.

That said, I am against a state sponsored execution policy. The probability of being innocent and proven guilty is too high in the current justice system to consider killing some of the people that it convicts.

[vhawk01]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't believe in the death penalty even for terrible, atrocious crimes. I once went to a presentation on the death penalty involving a couple whose child was murdered and a single father whose child was murdered. The couple was in favor of the death penalty, but their daughter was very much against it, so they asked that the killer not be given the death penalty, but I think their plea fell on deaf ears. The single father was I believe always against the death penalty, and he didn't even want it to be used on the murderer of his teenage son. In fact, this man had the courage to meet his son's killer, and he now believes the killer has truly repented. It was a very powerful presentation. Anyway I'm pretty sure I won't convince anyone here to change their mind, but I hate the death penalty (and I'm neither Democrat nor Republican FWIW).

[/ QUOTE ]

Agreed with all this, and I still want to [censored] kill him.

[Kurn, son of Mogh]

Meh. I prefer life in prison, no parole, no protective custody, with full disclosure to the population (inmates and CO's) what he did.

Let nature take its course.

[madnak]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't have one; it is a poll to gauge sentiment.

[/ QUOTE ]

And that's exactly what it gauges: sentiment. An emotional reaction. A knee-jerk that should be recognized for what it is. Hell, an emotional desire that is probably very similar to the desire of the rapist.

[tarheeljks]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I don't have one; it is a poll to gauge sentiment.

[/ QUOTE ]

And that's exactly what it gauges: sentiment. An emotional reaction. A knee-jerk that should be recognized for what it is. Hell, an emotional desire that is probably very similar to the desire of the rapist.

[/ QUOTE ]

i was w/you until the bold part.

edit: and my knee jerk reaction is yes. i used to be pro dp, now sometimes i am sometimes i'm not-- haven't really resolved my issues w/it one way or the other.

[StayHungry]

This would fall under the endless list of things that would only concern me if it came into my life. Right now it doesn't so kill them what do I care. Kill some other people I don't know either, makes no diference to me.

[David Sklansky]

Before a poll like this can even mean anything, you must specify whether or not the altenative is life in prison with absolutely no chance of parole.

[BluffTHIS!]

[ QUOTE ]
Before a poll like this can even mean anything, you must specify whether or not the altenative is life in prison with absolutely no chance of parole.

[/ QUOTE ]


A third alternative for multiple offenders (to eliminate an innocent person being so punished), should be mandatory physical castration. These pervs cannot be cured and should not be able to claim "rights to procreate" as a reason not to suffer such punishment.

[Nielsio]

Someone who does that is obviously very ill. People who are ill require treatment. They are ill after all. I suppose you don't send people with cancer to jail or execute people with a failing kidney.

[BluffTHIS!]

[ QUOTE ]
Someone who does that is obviously very ill. People who are ill require treatment. They are ill after all. I suppose you don't send people with cancer to jail or execute people with a failing kidney.

[/ QUOTE ]


Nielso,

While that is true to a certain extent, there is also minimal personal responsibility for getting and maintaining *effective* treatment. Just as an alcoholic can choose to go to the bar or an AA meeting (even if the choice is really a long term one). Since the medical community seems to agree there is no other cure, then I maintain that physical castration is such a cure. And note that their "disease" doesn't just impact themselves, but their innocent victims who shouldn't be forced to suffer the results of same. We require by force of law if necessary, quarantine for contagious diseases. So there is a valid precedent and rationale for removing the ability of these perverts to harm others.

[chezlaw]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Before a poll like this can even mean anything, you must specify whether or not the altenative is life in prison with absolutely no chance of parole.

[/ QUOTE ]


A third alternative for multiple offenders (to eliminate an innocent person being so punished), should be mandatory physical castration. These pervs cannot be cured and should not be able to claim "rights to procreate" as a reason not to suffer such punishment.

[/ QUOTE ]
Very humane of you, wanting these people back in the community. Have to be careful as I read (many years ago, maybe someone has more uptodate info) that castrated rapists were just as likely to reoffend with violent assults and no less dangerous to their victims.

Or did you mean to castrate them before execution or life imprisonment.

I'm against execution, reluctantly concede the need for life imprisonment in many cases.

chez

[hitch1978]

[ QUOTE ]
Someone who does that is obviously very ill. People who are ill require treatment. They are ill after all. I suppose you don't send people with cancer to jail or execute people with a failing kidney.

[/ QUOTE ]

I am not disagreeing with you, or agreeing for that matter, but I am questioning some of the 'facts' you are stating as I find the subject interesting.

Is it really a cureable illness as you suggest?

I am lucky that my sexuality is considered 'normal' by most people I come into contact with, but not everybody is that lucky, and I am sure we can agree that more than once in history someone has tried to 'cure' someone of homosexuality.

So why do we believe that the desires of this person can be altered any more than my desires to be physical with the opposite sex, or someone elses desires to be physical with the same sex or whatever.

Please note I am trying to be clear that I consider Hetro/homosexuality as the same on all levels apart from preferance, and am certainly not relating homosexuality to peadophilia. I will surely clarify if anyone wants to ask for clarification of anything, I speak better than I type, I think.

But given that, with the correct 'treatment' you could create a me where my desires were supressed (Assuming society deemed it immoral/unnacceptable to engauge in hetrosexual intercourse etc.) to a point where I could control them. Could the presence of those desires ever be completely vanquished? I doubt it, so how can we so readily accept full rehabilitation for peadophiles?

Also, if we can accept that an offender's chance of reoffending can never be reduced to 0%, what is an acceptable chance of reoffending, where we can call a perpetrator rehabilitated?

Thoughts on all of the above please.

[chezlaw]

[ QUOTE ]
Someone who does that is obviously very ill. People who are ill require treatment. They are ill after all. I suppose you don't send people with cancer to jail or execute people with a failing kidney.

[/ QUOTE ]
I'm deeply unconvinced these people are ill in any medical sense.

chez

[tame_deuces]

I'm against the death penalty, but if someone rapes a child of mine I'll kill him if I can.

I'm opposed to vigilantism also, so no it doesn't make any sense. But at some point principles break apart for me.

[hitch1978]

I'm with you there deuces.

[tarheeljks]

[ QUOTE ]
I suppose you don't send people with cancer to jail or execute people with a failing kidney.

[/ QUOTE ]

do you honestly believe that is the same thing?

[tarheeljks]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Before a poll like this can even mean anything, you must specify whether or not the altenative is life in prison with absolutely no chance of parole.

[/ QUOTE ]


A third alternative for multiple offenders (to eliminate an innocent person being so punished), should be mandatory physical castration. These pervs cannot be cured and should not be able to claim "rights to procreate" as a reason not to suffer such punishment.

[/ QUOTE ]
Very humane of you, wanting these people back in the community. Have to be careful as I read (many years ago, maybe someone has more uptodate info) that castrated rapists were just as likely to reoffend with violent assults and no less dangerous to their victims.

Or did you mean to castrate them before execution or life imprisonment.

I'm against execution, reluctantly concede the need for life imprisonment in many cases.

chez

[/ QUOTE ]

why is your concession reluctant? it seems like a lot of times these offenders are being sent back into society and the system just crosses its fingers and hopes that they have been rehabilitated.

[chezlaw]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Before a poll like this can even mean anything, you must specify whether or not the altenative is life in prison with absolutely no chance of parole.

[/ QUOTE ]


A third alternative for multiple offenders (to eliminate an innocent person being so punished), should be mandatory physical castration. These pervs cannot be cured and should not be able to claim "rights to procreate" as a reason not to suffer such punishment.

[/ QUOTE ]
Very humane of you, wanting these people back in the community. Have to be careful as I read (many years ago, maybe someone has more uptodate info) that castrated rapists were just as likely to reoffend with violent assults and no less dangerous to their victims.

Or did you mean to castrate them before execution or life imprisonment.

I'm against execution, reluctantly concede the need for life imprisonment in many cases.

chez

[/ QUOTE ]

why is your concession reluctant? it seems like a lot of times these offenders are being sent back into society and the system just crosses its fingers and hopes that they have been rehabilitated.

[/ QUOTE ]
Not keen on locking someone up and throwing away the key especially when some have been punished and pose no further risk. But we can't tell who poses no further risk and the downside of release is too great. I'd like to think there's a better option but can't think of any.

chez

[Subfallen]

I'm for giving the victim's parents five minutes with the restrained perp and a shotgun.

[madnak]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Someone who does that is obviously very ill. People who are ill require treatment. They are ill after all. I suppose you don't send people with cancer to jail or execute people with a failing kidney.

[/ QUOTE ]

I am not disagreeing with you, or agreeing for that matter, but I am questioning some of the 'facts' you are stating as I find the subject interesting.

Is it really a cureable illness as you suggest?

I am lucky that my sexuality is considered 'normal' by most people I come into contact with, but not everybody is that lucky, and I am sure we can agree that more than once in history someone has tried to 'cure' someone of homosexuality.

So why do we believe that the desires of this person can be altered any more than my desires to be physical with the opposite sex, or someone elses desires to be physical with the same sex or whatever.

Please note I am trying to be clear that I consider Hetro/homosexuality as the same on all levels apart from preferance, and am certainly not relating homosexuality to peadophilia. I will surely clarify if anyone wants to ask for clarification of anything, I speak better than I type, I think.

But given that, with the correct 'treatment' you could create a me where my desires were supressed (Assuming society deemed it immoral/unnacceptable to engauge in hetrosexual intercourse etc.) to a point where I could control them. Could the presence of those desires ever be completely vanquished? I doubt it, so how can we so readily accept full rehabilitation for peadophiles?

Also, if we can accept that an offender's chance of reoffending can never be reduced to 0%, what is an acceptable chance of reoffending, where we can call a perpetrator rehabilitated?

Thoughts on all of the above please.

[/ QUOTE ]

This isn't a question of desire. Desire has little to do with it. There are millions of people who have unacceptable desires and don't act on them. Child rapists act on their desires, and that's the problem. Any emotionally disturbed person will have some violent urges. In some cases these urges are extremely strong. But in almost all cases, the urges never become actions.

[madnak]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm against the death penalty, but if someone rapes a child of mine I'll kill him if I can.

I'm opposed to vigilantism also, so no it doesn't make any sense. But at some point principles break apart for me.

[/ QUOTE ]

In other words, you would let your desire overwhelm you, and you would act on that desire regardless of how destructive/immoral it is.

[Fly]

Considering what happens to child molesters in prison, I think the death penalty is a slap on the wrist.

(and governments should not be executing their own citizens, ldo)

[DblBarrelJ]

[ QUOTE ]
Considering what happens to child molesters in prison, I think the death penalty is a slap on the wrist.

(and governments should not be executing their own citizens, ldo)

[/ QUOTE ]

You watch a few too many movies. Want to know what happens to child molesters in prison? They sit in protective custody, eat alone, live lives of solitude.

However, they are not raped, attacked, made someone's "bitch" or anything of the sort.

[tarheeljks]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Before a poll like this can even mean anything, you must specify whether or not the altenative is life in prison with absolutely no chance of parole.

[/ QUOTE ]


A third alternative for multiple offenders (to eliminate an innocent person being so punished), should be mandatory physical castration. These pervs cannot be cured and should not be able to claim "rights to procreate" as a reason not to suffer such punishment.

[/ QUOTE ]
Very humane of you, wanting these people back in the community. Have to be careful as I read (many years ago, maybe someone has more uptodate info) that castrated rapists were just as likely to reoffend with violent assults and no less dangerous to their victims.

Or did you mean to castrate them before execution or life imprisonment.

I'm against execution, reluctantly concede the need for life imprisonment in many cases.

chez

[/ QUOTE ]

why is your concession reluctant? it seems like a lot of times these offenders are being sent back into society and the system just crosses its fingers and hopes that they have been rehabilitated.

[/ QUOTE ]
Not keen on locking someone up and throwing away the key especially when some have been punished and pose no further risk. But we can't tell who poses no further risk and the downside of release is too great. I'd like to think there's a better option but can't think of any.

chez

[/ QUOTE ]

fair enough. for more common crimes i would tend to agree, but regarding these particular offenders i'm not too torn up about locking them up and throwing away the key because crimes like this are on a different level of "bad." as a result the offenders will always pose a serious risk in my mind because i would wonder whether rehabilitation is conceivable for someone who commits such a crime. i may be off base in assuming that they have mental issues, but i feel that either way they pose too great a threat to be allowed to return. in the case that they are deemed to be insane (or whatever term applies) i think they can't be released for obvious reasons. in a scenario in which they are deemed to be of sound mind, i'm still wary; i believe in second chances, but i do not want to wait until they commit a second offense of this nature to realize that they cannot be trusted.

[chezlaw]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Before a poll like this can even mean anything, you must specify whether or not the altenative is life in prison with absolutely no chance of parole.

[/ QUOTE ]


A third alternative for multiple offenders (to eliminate an innocent person being so punished), should be mandatory physical castration. These pervs cannot be cured and should not be able to claim "rights to procreate" as a reason not to suffer such punishment.

[/ QUOTE ]
Very humane of you, wanting these people back in the community. Have to be careful as I read (many years ago, maybe someone has more uptodate info) that castrated rapists were just as likely to reoffend with violent assults and no less dangerous to their victims.

Or did you mean to castrate them before execution or life imprisonment.

I'm against execution, reluctantly concede the need for life imprisonment in many cases.

chez

[/ QUOTE ]

why is your concession reluctant? it seems like a lot of times these offenders are being sent back into society and the system just crosses its fingers and hopes that they have been rehabilitated.

[/ QUOTE ]
Not keen on locking someone up and throwing away the key especially when some have been punished and pose no further risk. But we can't tell who poses no further risk and the downside of release is too great. I'd like to think there's a better option but can't think of any.

chez

[/ QUOTE ]

fair enough. for more common crimes i would tend to agree, but regarding these particular offenders i'm not too torn up about locking them up and throwing away the key because crimes like this are on a different level of "bad." as a result the offenders will always pose a serious risk in my mind because i would wonder whether rehabilitation is conceivable for someone who commits such a crime. i may be off base in assuming that they have mental issues, but i feel that either way they pose too great a threat to be allowed to return. in the case that they are deemed to be insane (or whatever term applies) i think they can't be released for obvious reasons. in a scenario in which they are deemed to be of sound mind, i'm still wary; i believe in second chances, but i do not want to wait until they commit a second offense of this nature to realize that they cannot be trusted.

[/ QUOTE ]
I'm not torn up by it, just reluctant because it seems unjust. In the absense of a just solution I'm happy to skew any injustice in the system towards these people.

I can't imagine there's any deterence value so its just prevention.

chez

[Nielsio]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Someone who does that is obviously very ill. People who are ill require treatment. They are ill after all. I suppose you don't send people with cancer to jail or execute people with a failing kidney.

[/ QUOTE ]

I am not disagreeing with you, or agreeing for that matter, but I am questioning some of the 'facts' you are stating as I find the subject interesting.

Is it really a cureable illness as you suggest?

[/ QUOTE ]

Maybe it is, maybe it isn't.


[ QUOTE ]
I am lucky that my sexuality is considered 'normal' by most people I come into contact with, but not everybody is that lucky, and I am sure we can agree that more than once in history someone has tried to 'cure' someone of homosexuality.

So why do we believe that the desires of this person can be altered any more than my desires to be physical with the opposite sex, or someone elses desires to be physical with the same sex or whatever.

[/ QUOTE ]

Desiring to rape children is not something that comes natural. DUCY?


[ QUOTE ]
Please note I am trying to be clear that I consider Hetro/homosexuality as the same on all levels apart from preferance, and am certainly not relating homosexuality to peadophilia. I will surely clarify if anyone wants to ask for clarification of anything, I speak better than I type, I think.

But given that, with the correct 'treatment' you could create a me where my desires were supressed (Assuming society deemed it immoral/unnacceptable to engauge in hetrosexual intercourse etc.) to a point where I could control them. Could the presence of those desires ever be completely vanquished? I doubt it, so how can we so readily accept full rehabilitation for peadophiles?

[/ QUOTE ]

You're digressing.


[ QUOTE ]
Also, if we can accept that an offender's chance of reoffending can never be reduced to 0%, what is an acceptable chance of reoffending, where we can call a perpetrator rehabilitated?

[/ QUOTE ]

1. This is up to the market to decide
2. This has very little to do with my proposition




We live in an age of punishment. People believe that people will stop acting badly as long as you punish them enough for their bad behaviour.

Ofcourse, this ideology is both evil and insane. People act badly precisely because they have been treated badly. Why do people get angry and look for punishment/hurting? Because that's the only tool they have, they have nothing else. Because if they were to *really* try to make things better, then they would have to try to understand *why* people act in the way they do. But this is something most people never dare to do, because then they would have to evaluate their own lives as well, and that's not something people tend to do when they more easily just project their insecurity on others and make others feel the pain and frustration they themselves feel.



This concept explained in one of my vids:

Stand by me
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fsTgngBL1YY
(starts at 14m55s)

[jogsxyz]

Of course, there's another alternative. Do what they do in Arab countries. 200 lashes for the victim.

[surftheiop]

Didnt someone in BBV who was in prison for awhile say they were abused pretty badly? (the child molestors/ rapists)

[DblBarrelJ]

[ QUOTE ]
Didnt someone in BBV who was in prison for awhile say they were abused pretty badly? (the child molestors/ rapists)

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm a CO. I'm not saying it doesn't happen anywhere, what I am saying is that I've worked in three different facilities, and I've never seen it. Of course they were all in GA, and in GA, you get the "Private Quarters" if you're considered to be in danger.

Don't get me wrong, these guys are in severe danger from other inmates, but they're also kept away from the general population for that exact reason.

[tame_deuces]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'm against the death penalty, but if someone rapes a child of mine I'll kill him if I can.

I'm opposed to vigilantism also, so no it doesn't make any sense. But at some point principles break apart for me.

[/ QUOTE ]

In other words, you would let your desire overwhelm you, and you would act on that desire regardless of how destructive/immoral it is.

[/ QUOTE ]

Of course not. If I let desire overwhelm me I increase the risk of failing. Distanced thought and dry logic would serve far better. This isn't anger or emotion speaking on my part - this is simple choice.

[vhawk01]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'm against the death penalty, but if someone rapes a child of mine I'll kill him if I can.

I'm opposed to vigilantism also, so no it doesn't make any sense. But at some point principles break apart for me.

[/ QUOTE ]

In other words, you would let your desire overwhelm you, and you would act on that desire regardless of how destructive/immoral it is.

[/ QUOTE ]

Of course not. If I let desire overwhelm me I increase the risk of failing. Distanced thought and dry logic would serve far better. This isn't anger or emotion speaking on my part - this is simple choice.

[/ QUOTE ]

Then you should be able to logically and rationally justify your actions, right?

[tame_deuces]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'm against the death penalty, but if someone rapes a child of mine I'll kill him if I can.

I'm opposed to vigilantism also, so no it doesn't make any sense. But at some point principles break apart for me.

[/ QUOTE ]

In other words, you would let your desire overwhelm you, and you would act on that desire regardless of how destructive/immoral it is.

[/ QUOTE ]

Of course not. If I let desire overwhelm me I increase the risk of failing. Distanced thought and dry logic would serve far better. This isn't anger or emotion speaking on my part - this is simple choice.

[/ QUOTE ]

Then you should be able to logically and rationally justify your actions, right?

[/ QUOTE ]

That I'd murder the molester in cold blood is a risk he brought upon himself. I wouldn't have a problem with turning myself in and taking my punishment afterwards either. I wouldn't support others who took this action and I don't see why I should try and justify myself doing it.

Breaking up my family would be the only concern I could see that would potentially stop me from killing him if the chance is there.

[hitch1978]

[ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
I am lucky that my sexuality is considered 'normal' by most people I come into contact with, but not everybody is that lucky, and I am sure we can agree that more than once in history someone has tried to 'cure' someone of homosexuality.

So why do we believe that the desires of this person can be altered any more than my desires to be physical with the opposite sex, or someone elses desires to be physical with the same sex or whatever.

[/ QUOTE ]

Desiring to rape children is not something that comes natural. DUCY?



[/ QUOTE ]

No, please elaborate.

[hitch1978]

[ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
Also, if we can accept that an offender's chance of reoffending can never be reduced to 0%, what is an acceptable chance of reoffending, where we can call a perpetrator rehabilitated?

[/ QUOTE ]

1. This is up to the market to decide
2. This has very little to do with my proposition



[/ QUOTE ]

I wasn't trying to argue with/against your propostition, but I believe my points are a natural progression from the points you raise.

[vhawk01]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'm against the death penalty, but if someone rapes a child of mine I'll kill him if I can.

I'm opposed to vigilantism also, so no it doesn't make any sense. But at some point principles break apart for me.

[/ QUOTE ]

In other words, you would let your desire overwhelm you, and you would act on that desire regardless of how destructive/immoral it is.

[/ QUOTE ]

Of course not. If I let desire overwhelm me I increase the risk of failing. Distanced thought and dry logic would serve far better. This isn't anger or emotion speaking on my part - this is simple choice.

[/ QUOTE ]

Then you should be able to logically and rationally justify your actions, right?

[/ QUOTE ]

That I'd murder the molester in cold blood is a risk he brought upon himself. I wouldn't have a problem with turning myself in and taking my punishment afterwards either. I wouldn't support others who took this action and I don't see why I should try and justify myself doing it.

Breaking up my family would be the only concern I could see that would potentially stop me from killing him if the chance is there.

[/ QUOTE ]

So you'd never kill him. Ok. Thats kind of what I was getting at.

[madnak]

[ QUOTE ]
Of course not. If I let desire overwhelm me I increase the risk of failing. Distanced thought and dry logic would serve far better. This isn't anger or emotion speaking on my part - this is simple choice.

[/ QUOTE ]

Fair enough. Though, I can't understand your motivations. Then again, I don't have kids.

[tame_deuces]

[ QUOTE ]

So you'd never kill him. Ok. Thats kind of what I was getting at.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, words are easy, so I don't see it is a big thing to dwell over.

[vhawk01]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

So you'd never kill him. Ok. Thats kind of what I was getting at.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, words are easy, so I don't see it is a big thing to dwell over.

[/ QUOTE ]

Very true. Which is why I agreed that I think the death penalty is wrong and that I would still WANT to kill him.

[Nielsio]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
I am lucky that my sexuality is considered 'normal' by most people I come into contact with, but not everybody is that lucky, and I am sure we can agree that more than once in history someone has tried to 'cure' someone of homosexuality.

So why do we believe that the desires of this person can be altered any more than my desires to be physical with the opposite sex, or someone elses desires to be physical with the same sex or whatever.

[/ QUOTE ]

Desiring to rape children is not something that comes natural. DUCY?



[/ QUOTE ]

No, please elaborate.

[/ QUOTE ]


You can't think of anything?

[hitch1978]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
I am lucky that my sexuality is considered 'normal' by most people I come into contact with, but not everybody is that lucky, and I am sure we can agree that more than once in history someone has tried to 'cure' someone of homosexuality.

So why do we believe that the desires of this person can be altered any more than my desires to be physical with the opposite sex, or someone elses desires to be physical with the same sex or whatever.

[/ QUOTE ]

Desiring to rape children is not something that comes natural. DUCY?



[/ QUOTE ]

No, please elaborate.

[/ QUOTE ]


You can't think of anything?

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't know if you're being deliberately criptic, or if I'm being undelebartely dumb, but I can't see what point you are trying to make.

Many people would make the following statement 'A mam desiring to have sex with another man is not something that comes natural. DUCY?

Are you saying the difference lies in the consentuality of the act? If so, how do you feel about a 45yr old man having consentual sex with a pre-pubesant 9ry old girl?

[JammyDodga]

[ QUOTE ]
The motivation to prey on a helpless individual for the sake of your own sadistic enjoyment is sickening. I'd feel not an ounce of pity for a child rapist meeting a gruesome and agonizing demise, even if they were mentally handicapped.


[/ QUOTE ]

[ ] irony

[JMAnon]

[ QUOTE ]
Before a poll like this can even mean anything, you must specify whether or not the altenative is life in prison with absolutely no chance of parole.

[/ QUOTE ]

My goal was not to guage pragmatic responses regarding what would make the best social policy for utilitarian reasons. Rather, I was interested in emotional reactions regarding the proportionality of death as retribution for child rape.

[JMAnon]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I don't have one; it is a poll to gauge sentiment.

[/ QUOTE ]

And that's exactly what it gauges: sentiment. An emotional reaction.

[/ QUOTE ]

Correct.

[BigPoppa]

I have no philosophical objections to executions, just practical ones. We keep finding innocent people on Death Row, and it is almost certain that we have exceuted dozens if not hundreds of equally innocent men over the years. If we continue to execute murderers or child molesters, we will continue to execute innocent people as well.

So I prefer life imprisonment. We keep them off the streets so they can't harm people, but also have the chance to release someone if it turns out we made a mistake.

[hitch1978]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
I am lucky that my sexuality is considered 'normal' by most people I come into contact with, but not everybody is that lucky, and I am sure we can agree that more than once in history someone has tried to 'cure' someone of homosexuality.

So why do we believe that the desires of this person can be altered any more than my desires to be physical with the opposite sex, or someone elses desires to be physical with the same sex or whatever.

[/ QUOTE ]

Desiring to rape children is not something that comes natural. DUCY?



[/ QUOTE ]

No, please elaborate.

[/ QUOTE ]


You can't think of anything?

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't know if you're being deliberately criptic, or if I'm being undelebartely dumb, but I can't see what point you are trying to make.

Many people would make the following statement 'A mam desiring to have sex with another man is not something that comes natural. DUCY?

Are you saying the difference lies in the consentuality of the act? If so, how do you feel about a 45yr old man having consentual sex with a pre-pubesant 9ry old girl?

[/ QUOTE ]

Can anyone else fill in the blanks for me in Neilso's absence?

[hitch1978]

[ QUOTE ]
I have no philosophical objections to executions, just practical ones. We keep finding innocent people on Death Row, and it is almost certain that we have exceuted dozens if not hundreds of equally innocent men over the years. If we continue to execute murderers or child molesters, we will continue to execute innocent people as well.

So I prefer life imprisonment. We keep them off the streets so they can't harm people, but also have the chance to release someone if it turns out we made a mistake.

[/ QUOTE ]

Am I wrong to consider this as a straight EV calculation?

[jogsxyz]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I have no philosophical objections to executions, just practical ones. We keep finding innocent people on Death Row, and it is almost certain that we have exceuted dozens if not hundreds of equally innocent men over the years. If we continue to execute murderers or child molesters, we will continue to execute innocent people as well.

So I prefer life imprisonment. We keep them off the streets so they can't harm people, but also have the chance to release someone if it turns out we made a mistake.

[/ QUOTE ]

Am I wrong to consider this as a straight EV calculation?

[/ QUOTE ]

That's the way I see it.

But others rather see 20 child rapists go free than chance executing one innocent man.

[BigPoppa]

[ QUOTE ]
But others rather see 20 child rapists go free than chance executing one innocent man.


[/ QUOTE ]

Go free?
What part of Life Imprisonment do you not understand?


Don't try to pretend that the decision is either execution or letting them walk. It would be a lot easier to change the law so molestation carried a Life sentence than the Death Penalty and you know it.

[hitch1978]

Just to make things clear.

What extra value would you give to someone imprisoned for life in a max security prison over someone given the death penalty?

(I don't agree with the death penalty BTW)

[billygrippo]

wtf is wrong with little kids rapping? lil' bow wow is hot!

[BigPoppa]

[ QUOTE ]
What extra value would you give to someone imprisoned for life in a max security prison over someone given the death penalty?


[/ QUOTE ]

If it turns out we convicted an innocent man (as sometimes happens), we can release someone from prison but we cannot unexecute them. If they are indeed guilty, then they're locked away from society anyway. I just don't see any benefit to execution over life imprisonment.


This is not about "redemption or the "sanctity of human life" to me. It is simply about being able to undo an injustice if it comes to light that one has been done. The government is not perfect, nor are prosecutors, judges, or juries.

[hitch1978]

So again, it comes to a straight EV decision.

If 1 person in 1,000,000,000 was executed incorrectly, vs $20,000 per year in costs for keeping an inmate incarcerated, (Money that could be spent on better prorection for ALL citezens) then would it be better to have the death penalty for such crimes?

IOW, what is better, having X number of inocent people put to death or having Y number of inoccent people subjected to peadophiliac rape for cost z?

That is what I was referring to when I said it was an EV calc.

[BigPoppa]

[ QUOTE ]
If 1 person in 1,000,000,000 was executed incorrectly,......




......IOW, what is better, having X number of inocent people put to death or having Y number of inoccent people subjected to peadophiliac rape for cost z?



[/ QUOTE ]

Your assumptions are idiotic to the point of trolling. This is why I normally don't even argue with people who can't help but frame the other side's position in such a dishonest manner.

1) We are not talking about a 1 in a billion chance of an innocent man being executed. We're probably much closer to 1 out of 40.

2) Again, and for the last time: WE ARE NOT DECIDING BETWEEN EXECUTION OR GOING FREE, so stop talking as if anyone we don't execute will be out raping kids tomorrow. We are talking about either execution or prison (your inability to acknowledge this simple distinction is a big part of what makes you a dishonest troll).


If you want to put a dollar value on an innocent man's life and make your stupid EV calculation, go ahead. Just remember, that life could be your own one day.

[WiltOnTilt]

i wonder if some of you who have taken a very liberal stance on the rapist being "sick" or "ill" and therefore needing "treatment" have ever had any sort of meaningful relationship with someone who has been a victim of child molestation/rape.

if being a child rapist is the same as having a sickness like cancer, and I was willfully going around infecting kids with my sickness (or at the least leaving them with severe mental/emotional scars), then I think it's reasonable to execute the cancer victim alongside the rapist.

[DblBarrelJ]

[ QUOTE ]
i wonder if some of you who have taken a very liberal stance on the rapist being "sick" or "ill" and therefore needing "treatment" have ever had any sort of meaningful relationship with someone who has been a victim of child molestation/rape.

if being a child rapist is the same as having a sickness like cancer, and I was willfully going around infecting kids with my sickness (or at the least leaving them with severe mental/emotional scars), then I think it's reasonable to execute the cancer victim alongside the rapist.

[/ QUOTE ]

This I agree with. As a matter of fact, I strongly support the death penalty (and murder charges) for rapists who, while knowingly infected with HIV, rape a woman.

[boracay]

[ QUOTE ]
So again, it comes to a straight EV decision.

If 1 person in 1,000,000,000 was executed incorrectly, vs $20,000 per year in costs for keeping an inmate incarcerated, (Money that could be spent on better prorection for ALL citezens) then would it be better to have the death penalty for such crimes?

IOW, what is better, having X number of inocent people put to death or having Y number of inoccent people subjected to peadophiliac rape for cost z?

That is what I was referring to when I said it was an EV calc.

[/ QUOTE ]

Let's be objective and try to use some facts.
There was 1058 executions since 1973 (379 in Texas) and at the same time 123 death-row prisoners have been released since 1976 because they were innocent. In addition, at least seven people have been executed even though they were probably innocent since 1976. Do a math, that's not close to one of a billion IMO.

Also, a death penalty costs more than life in prison. The most comprehensive death penalty study in the country found that the death penalty cost North Carolina $2.16 million more per execution over the costs of sentencing murderers to life imprisonment.

Death Penalty 101 (http://www.aclu.org/capital/facts/10602res20070409.html)

[chezlaw]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
So again, it comes to a straight EV decision.

If 1 person in 1,000,000,000 was executed incorrectly, vs $20,000 per year in costs for keeping an inmate incarcerated, (Money that could be spent on better prorection for ALL citezens) then would it be better to have the death penalty for such crimes?

IOW, what is better, having X number of inocent people put to death or having Y number of inoccent people subjected to peadophiliac rape for cost z?

That is what I was referring to when I said it was an EV calc.

[/ QUOTE ]

Let's be objective and try to use some facts.
There was 1058 executions since 1973 (379 in Texas) and at the same time 123 death-row prisoners have been released since 1976 because they were innocent. In addition, at least seven people have been executed even though they were probably innocent since 1976. Do a math, that's not close to one of a billion IMO.

Also, a death penalty costs more than life in prison. The most comprehensive death penalty study in the country found that the death penalty cost North Carolina $2.16 million more per execution over the costs of sentencing murderers to life imprisonment.

Death Penalty 101 (http://www.aclu.org/capital/facts/10602res20070409.html)

[/ QUOTE ]
Its an attempt to differentiate between principle and practice. I'm against in principle so the error rate is unimportant.

In practice the error rate is so high that everyone should be against the death penalty. There's also the people who are guilty of what they are accused of in law but are not the people anyone sane wanted to be accused of a crime e.g some kid that had consensual sex with someone slightly younger and is technically guilty of pedaphilia.

chez

[cambraceres]

Child molesters aren't going to stop; evidence furthermore suggests that their recidivism rate is obscene. Right now many children are killed because, after they have been abused, the offender is concerned about legal reprimand and silences the child. Think, for just a second, about what would happen if it didn't matter whether you raped a child, or raped and murdered a child? WHO WOULDN'T KILL THE CHILD?!?!?!?!

YOU GET THE SAME PUNISHMENT- SILENCE THE CHILD

Child Rape= death
Child Rape + Murder= death

Anything seem screwy with this equation?

Cam

[jogsxyz]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
But others rather see 20 child rapists go free than chance executing one innocent man.


[/ QUOTE ]

Go free?
What part of Life Imprisonment do you not understand?


[/ QUOTE ]

Life Imprisonment is more punishing the taxpayers than the perpetrator. Being an atheist I have no problems with moral dilemma.

[jogsxyz]

[ QUOTE ]
Also, a death penalty costs more than life in prison. The most comprehensive death penalty study in the country found that the death penalty cost North Carolina $2.16 million more per execution over the costs of sentencing murderers to life imprisonment.


[/ QUOTE ]

Those costs assumes the convicted are entitled to all those appeals. Just shoot them after the trial.

[BigPoppa]

[ QUOTE ]
Those costs assumes the convicted are entitled to all those appeals. Just shoot them after the trial.



[/ QUOTE ]

...and another troll raises his hand to be ackowledged.