I Met a Backwards Man

[Borodog]

As some may recall, I teach dance in my spare time. A few weeks back I was filling in for someone, teaching an East Coast Swing class. One of the students was a very nice elderly black man, maybe 65 years old. I had been warned that he was having extreme problems, and was very slow in his progress.

When I taught the class, the warning was confirmed. Interestingly, in the process of teaching a move called a belt turn, I discovered why. In the belt turn the leader turns to his left, counterclockwise if you were looking down from above. I had emphasized this repeatedly as I taught the pattern. But he consistently turned to his right instead.

When I pointed out the problem (not that uncommon), he became flustered. He insisted that I had said to turn to his left. I said that I did, but that he was turning to his right. He insisted that he was not. I showed him the direction of the turn while standing next to him, and he said, "Yeah, that's to the right."

Now, at first I thought this was just some bizarre naming convention, like he's thinking that if his right hand is coming forward, then that's a "right hand" turn. But no! Half jokingly I asked, "So which is your right hand?"

He raised his left hand.

Now at this pint I am pretty nonplussed, and class is getting behind. But I turned and stood in front of him and raised my right hand and asked, "Which hand is this?" He correctly identified it as my right hand. I asked him to raise his right hand, and he again raised his left.

Then I stood next to him, on his right (his real right), facing the same direction as he was, and raised my left hand, and asked him which hand it was. He siad "Right, of course."

At this point, I had to get back to class, and he seemed to be getting insulted, so I just told him to turn to his right in the belt turn, and got back to class.

The reason that I bring this up now is that I have to cover that class again tonight, and I remembered this gentleman. It has occurred to me that this cannot possibly be something that has always been like this, or he would know that he had some sort of problem. This seems like there must be some sort of recent event, possibly a small stroke or something, that has brought this on.

Should I say something to the guy?

Also, this very much reminded me of "The Man Who Mistook His Wife For a Hat."

[bbbaddd]

It might be kind of a sensitive subject, esp. if he seemed to be aggravated when you mentioned the problem in the previous class. Does anyone drive him there or come with him? It might be best to let someone close to him know.

[DougShrapnel]

It might be best to let someone close to him know. I'm not a doctor but a stroke sounds about right.

[Borodog]

I think his wife was with him. Good point.

Thanks.

[Brad1970]

[ QUOTE ]
This seems like there must be some sort of recent event, possibly a small stroke or something, that has brought this on.

[/ QUOTE ]

Could be that or dementia.

[Splendour]

He might be dyslexic.

See: http://ask.metafilter.com/39271/Which-hand-is-my-left-one

[Nielsio]

Maybe you had it wrong.

/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

[Neuge]

Do the hokey pokey at your next class and see what happens.

[Neuge]

Seriously though, this is a known sign of learning disability in children (it's called right-left discrimination). If he hasn't always been this way, it could easily be a neurological problem.

[LondonBroil]

[ QUOTE ]
I think his wife was with him. Good point.

Thanks.

[/ QUOTE ]

Letting his wife know is probably the left way to deal with it.

[AlexM]

Everyone has always been afraid to tell him due to fears that people will think they're racist.

[Fly]

[ QUOTE ]

One of the students was a very nice elderly black man,


[/ QUOTE ]

el oh el /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Phil153]

I had this problem until I was 15 or so. Not this bad, but I could never remember which was left or right. I was 15 and watching a kid's show with a friend's brother when it clicked: "Left is the hand that makes an L when you hold it up". It was easy to visualize after that and a couple of weeks later it was natural. Watching myself think about it now, deciding left from right still requires the invoking of visual or kinesthetic memory from one of the times I've decided between left and right (such as visualizing a car turning or imagining myself writing. But it's instantaneous now as opposed to requiring thought.

Point being that you can do just fine for a long time without instinctively knowing left from right.

As for your dilemma, I'd mention it quietly to the partner. She probably already knows and if not should be the one to break it to him.

[PLOlover]

[ QUOTE ]
I had this problem until I was 15 or so. Not this bad, but I could never remember which was left or right. I guess I never learnt it young. My cure came while I was watching a kid's show with a friend's brother. "Left is the hand that makes an L when you hold it up". It was easy to visualize after that and a couple of weeks later it was natural. Watching myself think about it now, deciding left from right still requires the invoking of visual or kinesthetic memory from one of the times I've decided between left and right (such as visualizing a car turning or imagining myself writing. But it's instantaneous now as opposed to requiring thought.

Point being that you can do just fine for a long time without instinctively knowing left from right. You can hide these things well.

[/ QUOTE ]

I actually had this with the doppler shift blue/red coming/going and attributed it to the binary ness of it I could never just remember it.

[soon2bepro]

he's [censored] with ya dude

[vhawk01]

[ QUOTE ]
I had this problem until I was 15 or so. Not this bad, but I could never remember which was left or right. I was 15 and watching a kid's show with a friend's brother when it clicked: "Left is the hand that makes an L when you hold it up". It was easy to visualize after that and a couple of weeks later it was natural. Watching myself think about it now, deciding left from right still requires the invoking of visual or kinesthetic memory from one of the times I've decided between left and right (such as visualizing a car turning or imagining myself writing. But it's instantaneous now as opposed to requiring thought.

Point being that you can do just fine for a long time without instinctively knowing left from right.

As for your dilemma, I'd mention it quietly to the partner. She probably already knows and if not should be the one to break it to him.

[/ QUOTE ]

I still have no idea which letter I am going to write when I intend to write a lower-case d or b. Its essentially random, unless I spend a considerable amount of time (5 seconds at least) visualizing and trying to figure out which one is which. I am pretty much incapable of memorizing which one has the circle on the left of the line and which one is on the right.

[madnak]

[ QUOTE ]
I had this problem until I was 15 or so. Not this bad, but I could never remember which was left or right. I was 15 and watching a kid's show with a friend's brother when it clicked: "Left is the hand that makes an L when you hold it up". It was easy to visualize after that and a couple of weeks later it was natural. Watching myself think about it now, deciding left from right still requires the invoking of visual or kinesthetic memory from one of the times I've decided between left and right (such as visualizing a car turning or imagining myself writing. But it's instantaneous now as opposed to requiring thought.

[/ QUOTE ]

I have problems with this too. I have trouble telling a left turn from a right turn on an overhead map. And clockwise-counterclockwise gets me every time. I can use mnemonics or do it intellectually, but it takes many seconds and I'm never quite sure about it.

[Badger]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I had this problem until I was 15 or so. Not this bad, but I could never remember which was left or right. I guess I never learnt it young. My cure came while I was watching a kid's show with a friend's brother. "Left is the hand that makes an L when you hold it up". It was easy to visualize after that and a couple of weeks later it was natural. Watching myself think about it now, deciding left from right still requires the invoking of visual or kinesthetic memory from one of the times I've decided between left and right (such as visualizing a car turning or imagining myself writing. But it's instantaneous now as opposed to requiring thought.

Point being that you can do just fine for a long time without instinctively knowing left from right. You can hide these things well.

[/ QUOTE ]

I actually had this with the doppler shift blue/red coming/going and attributed it to the binary ness of it I could never just remember it.

[/ QUOTE ]

I have something somewhat similar with directions. When I give directions or say which corner something is on I visualize it on the city map of Austin, then I zoom out and look for California or the East Coast to determine which direction it is. It's an almost instant process, but unless I've seen a street sign that says East Highway whatever, or have traveled on it myself while considering the direction I need to see the map of the US in my mind before I can state which direction it is.

For whatever reason I don't have to do this with North/South I either don't think about it, or simply visualizing Austin is enough. Same thing applied when I lived in Madison, WI. OK, so I'm starting to think this is quite different than your situation or OP, but whatever, I've typed it already.

[andyfox]

My wife, who is 49 and very sharp, has started to mess up left and right a bit the past year or so. Not anything like this, of course, but forgetting which is the left and right, every once in a while, when I say "turn left at the light."

[Borodog]

My first wife, in an infamous incident, was navigating while I was driving. She told me to turn right. There was no road there. Only trees. I was squinting, looking up ahead for the turn, when she began yelling at me with increasing frequency and fervor, "Turn right! Right, right, RIGHT!" I looked at her bewildered, and she was (of course) furiously pointing left.

I stopped the car and said, "Oh, THAT right."

Strangely, that marriage did not last.

[Nielsio]

[ QUOTE ]
My first wife, in an infamous incident, was navigating while I was driving. She told me to turn right. There was no road there. Only trees. I was squinting, looking up ahead for the turn, when she began yelling at me with increasing frequency and fervor, "Turn right! Right, right, RIGHT!" I looked at her bewildered, and she was (of course) furiously pointing left.

I stopped the car and said, "Oh, THAT right."

Strangely, that marriage did not last.

[/ QUOTE ]


Racist imo.

[chezlaw]

[ QUOTE ]
I had this problem until I was 15 or so. Not this bad, but I could never remember which was left or right. I was 15 and watching a kid's show with a friend's brother when it clicked: "Left is the hand that makes an L when you hold it up". It was easy to visualize after that and a couple of weeks later it was natural. Watching myself think about it now, deciding left from right still requires the invoking of visual or kinesthetic memory from one of the times I've decided between left and right (such as visualizing a car turning or imagining myself writing. But it's instantaneous now as opposed to requiring thought.

Point being that you can do just fine for a long time without instinctively knowing left from right.

As for your dilemma, I'd mention it quietly to the partner. She probably already knows and if not should be the one to break it to him.

[/ QUOTE ]
Feynman had the same problem, he had to feel for a mole on one of hands.

I don't think its the same problem as in the OP.

chez

[Borodog]

A lot of these stories sound bizarre to me. I have trouble picturing what that must be like. Strike that. I can't picture it at all.

This sounds very common given the number of people speaking up. Now I have some sympathy for all those students I've seen writing with their right hands while doing their right hand rules with their left . . .

[soko]

take a marker and draw an L on his left hand and an R on his right hand

[Mr_Moore]

[ QUOTE ]
My first wife, in an infamous incident, was navigating while I was driving. She told me to turn right. There was no road there. Only trees. I was squinting, looking up ahead for the turn, when she began yelling at me with increasing frequency and fervor, "Turn right! Right, right, RIGHT!" I looked at her bewildered, and she was (of course) furiously pointing left.

I stopped the car and said, "Oh, THAT right."

Strangely, that marriage did not last.

[/ QUOTE ]

lol good answer /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[Nielsio]

[ QUOTE ]
A lot of these stories sound bizarre to me. I have trouble picturing what that must be like. Strike that. I can't picture it at all.

This sounds very common given the number of people speaking up. Now I have some sympathy for all those students I've seen writing with their right hands while doing their right hand rules with their left . . .

[/ QUOTE ]


Maybe check out Susan Greenfield - Brain Story. There are endless amounts of ways in how people's brains have defects/disorders, and very specific ways also.

[Borodog]

Which one is Barron's?

[CallMeIshmael]

boro,

You're probably just using different sides of your brains

http://www.news.com.au/common/imagedata/0,,5693171,00.gif

[metsandfinsfan]

[ QUOTE ]
boro,

You're probably just using different sides of your brains

http://www.news.com.au/common/imagedata/0,,5693171,00.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

all those optical illusions always freak me out

[Hopey]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
boro,

You're probably just using different sides of your brains

http://www.news.com.au/common/imagedata/0,,5693171,00.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

all those optical illusions always make me hard

[/ QUOTE ]

[EvilSteve]

Tom Green had a similar problem (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EVEXqYq48ow).

[Bill Haywood]

Can anyone explain how this illusion works? How does our brain mess it up? It occurs even with one eye closed. I can kind of imagine how it would work with a symmetrical object, but this floors me. Here's my theory. Imagine a straight, diamond shaped pole. As it turns, it will widen and narrow. With the elongated points at zero and 180 degrees, it is narrow, at 90 and 270 it is fat. Imagine it starts with the long points at 90 and 270, and imagine it spinning first clockwise, then CCW. Now think about the individual frames of the point that starts at 270. When it spins CCW from 270 halfway to 225, the frame at that point will be a particular wideness. At 220 it will be slightly thinner. Now think about when the point swings CW from 270 to 315. The wideness will be the same as at 225. It is exactly the same frame. At the frame at CW 320 is identical to CCW 220. It only works if the object is in silhouette.

[ QUOTE ]
http://www.news.com.au/common/imagedata/0,,5693171,00.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

[Limesparks]

he is obv completely comprised of antimatter borodog DO NOT TOUCH HIM

[madnak]

[ QUOTE ]
It only works if the object is in silhouette.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, at any given point the silhouette could be facing either direction. This is because the body elements are roughly symmetrical. The face/ponytail are most impressive.

[hitch1978]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
It only works if the object is in silhouette.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, at any given point the silhouette could be facing either direction. This is because the body elements are roughly symmetrical. The perfectly formed breasts are most impressive.

[/ QUOTE ]

FYP

[vhawk01]

[ QUOTE ]
he is obv your doppelganger borodog DO NOT TOUCH HIM

[/ QUOTE ]

[Wubbie075]

[ QUOTE ]
I still have no idea which letter I am going to write when I intend to write a lower-case d or b. Its essentially random, unless I spend a considerable amount of time (5 seconds at least) visualizing and trying to figure out which one is which. I am pretty much incapable of memorizing which one has the circle on the left of the line and which one is on the right.

[/ QUOTE ]

I do the same thing. I also mess up lowercase g and q. I hate writing by hand.

[vhawk01]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I still have no idea which letter I am going to write when I intend to write a lower-case d or b. Its essentially random, unless I spend a considerable amount of time (5 seconds at least) visualizing and trying to figure out which one is which. I am pretty much incapable of memorizing which one has the circle on the left of the line and which one is on the right.

[/ QUOTE ]

I do the same thing. I also mess up lowercase g and q. I hate writing by hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

Its more messed up that I DONT have a problem with q and g. I mean, its the same exact thing, but for some reason I have no problem with that. Good thing I wont be spending most of my life writing in print things that are extremely dangerous is a few letters get juxtaposed, right?

[iSTRONG]

[ QUOTE ]
Can anyone explain how this illusion works? How does our brain mess it up? It occurs even with one eye closed. I can kind of imagine how it would work with a symmetrical object, but this floors me. Here's my theory. Imagine a straight, diamond shaped pole. As it turns, it will widen and narrow. With the elongated points at zero and 180 degrees, it is narrow, at 90 and 270 it is fat. Imagine it starts with the long points at 90 and 270, and imagine it spinning first clockwise, then CCW. Now think about the individual frames of the point that starts at 270. When it spins CCW from 270 halfway to 225, the frame at that point will be a particular wideness. At 220 it will be slightly thinner. Now think about when the point swings CW from 270 to 315. The wideness will be the same as at 225. It is exactly the same frame. At the frame at CW 320 is identical to CCW 220. It only works if the object is in silhouette.



[/ QUOTE ]

Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multistable_perception)

Btw, this is a great illusion. love it.

[Big Limpin]

[ QUOTE ]
One of the students was a very nice elderly black man, maybe 65 years old,with an impish love of practical jokes.

[/ QUOTE ]

[kurto]

I don't see an illusion. What am I missing? There's a woman spinning in circles (clockwise) while her foot elevates up and down.

Should I be seeing something else in it as well?

[vhawk01]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't see an illusion. What am I missing? There's a woman spinning in circles (clockwise) while her foot elevates up and down.

Should I be seeing something else in it as well?

[/ QUOTE ]

She turns counterclockwise dummy /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[CORed]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I don't see an illusion. What am I missing? There's a woman spinning in circles (clockwise) while her foot elevates up and down.

Should I be seeing something else in it as well?

[/ QUOTE ]

She turns counterclockwise dummy /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

I can see her spinning in either direction, but my brain seems to favor counterclockwise.

[vhawk01]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I don't see an illusion. What am I missing? There's a woman spinning in circles (clockwise) while her foot elevates up and down.

Should I be seeing something else in it as well?

[/ QUOTE ]

She turns counterclockwise dummy /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

I can see her spinning in either direction, but my brain seems to favor counterclockwise.

[/ QUOTE ]

Me too and me too.

[Nulle]

bah, I only see counterclockwise.

[ALawPoker]

I [censored] hate that dancer thing, and can't believe I stumbled across it in another thread. If you keep looking long enough you'll eventually see it, but you won't feel like a better person for it. You'll just compulsively look again 3 minutes later to make sure you can still see it. Then again, and again.

Just let it go. Make no emotional investment. [censored] that thing.

[elitegimp]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I don't see an illusion. What am I missing? There's a woman spinning in circles (clockwise) while her foot elevates up and down.

Should I be seeing something else in it as well?

[/ QUOTE ]

She turns counterclockwise dummy /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Why would you use clockwise / counter-clockwise to describe her motion? To me that would imply that she was doing cartwheels... instead she's just spinning (to her right)

[ALawPoker]

Fortunately, there's a 3rd dimension available. Try pretending your clock is on the floor.

[elitegimp]

[ QUOTE ]
Fortunately, there's a 3rd dimension available. Try pretending your clock is on the floor.

[/ QUOTE ]

So is the "clockwise vs counterclockwise" just a debate about whether to put the clock on the floor or on the ceiling?

edit: And why are we "fortunate" to have the third dimension? Isn't the basic problem that clockwise / counterclockwise is used to describe 2D rotation?

[vhawk01]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Fortunately, there's a 3rd dimension available. Try pretending your clock is on the floor.

[/ QUOTE ]

So is the "clockwise vs counterclockwise" just a debate about whether to put the clock on the floor or on the ceiling?

edit: And why are we "fortunate" to have the third dimension? Isn't the basic problem that clockwise / counterclockwise is used to describe 2D rotation?

[/ QUOTE ]

No. Put the clock on the floor and she still turns EITHER way.

And the reason I am using clockwise and counterclockwise is just because its easier than "her right? Your right? My right?" Saying she is going to her right is fine though, but its no surprise that everyone else in this thread, without prompting, talked about her spinning in clock terms.

[elitegimp]

[ QUOTE ]


No. Put the clock on the floor and she still turns EITHER way.

[/ QUOTE ]

Weird, I just don't see it. I guess my point of view was that the confusion came from the clock orientation, not from the actual spin... maybe I'll stare at it some more and see if I can't get her to turn the other way.

[vhawk01]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]


No. Put the clock on the floor and she still turns EITHER way.

[/ QUOTE ]

Weird, I just don't see it. I guess my point of view was that the confusion came from the clock orientation, not from the actual spin... maybe I'll stare at it some more and see if I can't get her to turn the other way.

[/ QUOTE ]

A trick that worked for me is to look only at her foot, and actually to focus right below her foot. Then try and concentrate on when her foot reaches its maximum "lateral" rotation and see if you can make it reverse course right at that point and come back. So, if her foot is pointing "towards you" and going from your right to your left, when it reaches the leftmost point, try to see if you cant visualize it going back to your right BUT STILL POINTING AT YOU.

Its tricky at first but I'm sure you will get it. The best part of this illusion is how absolutely sure you are that it is going one way and one way only, and then you figure it out and you STILL have a hard time believing it goes both ways. I mean, it is just SO OBVIOUS that it goes (counter)clockwise!