Mirror Neurons, Morality and Video games

[luckyme]

this has to be a hot topic in several fields

"Source of human empathy found in brain" (http://www.newscientist.com/channel/being-human/mg19626294.600-source-of-human-empathy-found-in-brain.html?feedId=online-news_rss20)

the main thrust seems to be that they identified specific brain cells that do mirror the action being watched.
Morality, religion, politics and even the harmful effects of violent video games are touched by our increasing knowledge of this aspect of how our mind works.

Does anyone hear has a good grasp of this or a some good sources?
my understanding is that we engage the same cells whether witnessing or actually doing ... we do 'walk a mile in their shoes' with some sort of suppression mechanism that prevents a total immersion in the others skin ( we don't actually take the physical steps as we walk that mile).

luckyme, luckywe(?)

[foal]

"Mirror neurons" are used to support simulation theory. That is, we make sense of the behavior and feelings of others... or "attribute mental qualities to others"... by simulating their experiences or at least attempting to in our own brain. This is in contrast to I think what is called the "theory theory" model which is that we have a theory of the mind of others that operates based on predictive power. I.e. if we attribute mental qualities to them, we can predict their behavior better.
It is a topic of debate, which model is better or more true. Personally I think they are not mutuality exclusive and that there is truth to both.

[Splendour]

That article is an interesting find luckyme. I was just thinking a few days ago about why we are made in God's image. It made me think of mirrors as a logical extension from the image thing since we see our own images in mirrors.
Aren't we suppose to mirror back the image we have of God and while we are exhibiting these behaviors aren't our children watching us, picking up on this image, this example and mirroring it to future generations?

[The B]

sorry, wrong forum

[luckyme]

[ QUOTE ]
"Mirror neurons" are used to support simulation theory. That is, we make sense of the behavior and feelings of others... or "attribute mental qualities to others"... by simulating their experiences or at least attempting to in our own brain. This is in contrast to I think what is called the "theory theory" model which is that we have a theory of the mind of others that operates based on predictive power. I.e. if we attribute mental qualities to them, we can predict their behavior better.
It is a topic of debate, which model is better or more true. Personally I think they are not mutuality exclusive and that there is truth to both.

[/ QUOTE ]

This finding seems to take the 'mirror neuron' into the empirical setting. The 'theory of mind' perspective may well apply a layer above what we actually experience at the neuron level.
Iow, the question now would be - how do mirror neurons ( the fact) fit into the theory of mind that we may have?

Is it possible conditions that cause us to lack empathy ( or theory of mind perhaps) can be treated with repair to specific brain areas/neurons? Some forms of Autism? sociopaths. mean teachers.

luckyme

[foal]

mirror neurons are not really proven. at least not in humans. they are in monkeys, but they still are not understood that well.

[ QUOTE ]
Is it possible conditions that cause us to lack empathy ( or theory of mind perhaps) can be treated with repair to specific brain areas/neurons? Some forms of Autism? sociopaths. mean teachers.

[/ QUOTE ]
It would seem to make sense if autism was related to a mirror neuron problem. Interesting, but we can only speculate.

[luckyme]

[ QUOTE ]
mirror neurons are not really proven. at least not in humans. they are in monkeys, but they still are not understood that well.


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It seems from the New Scientist portion that some have been individually identified in humans now ..

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First discovered in macaque monkeys 11 years ago, this new class of cells generated a booming field of research. Yet until now, evidence for human mirror neurons could only be inferred from functional MRI studies, which measure general patterns of brain activity, and presumed similarities between humans and other primates.

Marco Iacoboni of the Ahmanson Lovelace Brain Mapping Center at the University of California, Los Angeles, described his team's observations of mirror neurons last week at the annual Society for Neuroscience conference in San Diego, California. His team recorded the actions of 286 individual neurons in ...

[/ QUOTE ]

it's a fresh discovery, which was why I'm asking for some up-to-date links that deal with the implications so I can follow the developments better.

luckyme

[foal]

my bad. it wouldn't let me read the article, because I'm not a member, but yeah individual mirror neurons being found in humans is interesting. all I can contribute is philosophical background unfortunately.

[luckyme]

[ QUOTE ]
my bad. it wouldn't let me read the article, because I'm not a member, but yeah individual mirror neurons being found in humans is interesting. all I can contribute is philosophical background unfortunately.

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One philosophical area they touch directly is the me/they boundary. Some Eastern philosophies tend to take that approach and some meditation is aimed at dissolving/overriding our ability to differentiate.
We do not think we ARE the person/object we are watching because there is some suppression module/cells at work that keep their actions from becoming our actions. If that can be unplugged, then 'we are what we see'?
The traditional "one-with-the-universe" experience is a version of this.

luckyme

[luckyme]

[ QUOTE ]
That article is an interesting find luckyme. I was just thinking a few days ago about why we are made in God's image.

[/ QUOTE ]

The theistic interest in the discovery is it's one more nail in god's coffin. Just as we don't need to turn to god to know why we can walk, it further evidence we don't need a theistic explanation of morality/empathy, it comes with the body, with straightforward evolutionary roots across several species.

luckyme

[carlo]

One approach is psycho-physical parallelism in which physical findings and psychic findings go together without attempting to find the connections.

Another approach states that the physical produces a thought, feeling or impetus to action. In this case, which is the most materialistically clear the physical body is the source of all the above. The referenced article(too short and lacking in depth) appears to be in this category but the researchers may look at this differently.

Another look appreciates the soul and states that the body is a "reflector" of thoughts, feelings and emotions. Thoughts are relegated to the nervous system which is not only in the brain but throughout the body. "Will forces" are appreciated within the metabolic-limb system(legs,digestive system) but of course there are "will forces" throughout the body including the brain. "Feelings" are appreciated within the cardio-respiratory system. Becoming short of breath and "untoward feelings" are rightly connected in this case.

Of course there are mixtures of all the above in each system. There are feeling and will impulses in a thought but we are less aware of this fact. Likewise the metabolic-limb system contains thoughts and feelings of which we are not totally aware. And for completion, there are thought and will impulses associated with our feeling system.

To look at it grossly the nervous system is rightly associated with thoughts but there is also a circulatory and digestive portion in the brain which of course is not so evident to ourselves but gross anatomy certainly displays circulation there is some "movement" of circulation and much less so in the nerve which is associated with "will forces".

In short, the "ego" sits without the human being and through the soul receives"reflections" of waking associations via the body.

[Xylem]

Tx Lucky im doing a psychological research proposal on violent video game desensitisation and this may help.