Why I believe if Jesus is the son of God I won't go to hell

[einbert]

I'm an atheist. Although I do believe in the possibility, however slight, that some sort of "god" or "gods" or "flying spaghetti monster" exists. I just don't think there's much evidence for it but I'm going to keep looking. So according to some around here I would actually be labeled agnostic. Just wanted to point that out...PLEASE don't let that be the topic of discussion in this thread!

Anyway, this is a passage that means a lot to me, has ever since I read it as a malleable teenager. I have questioned its meaning many times, and it is certainly up for debate. But the way I see it, Jesus is saying that where you spend eternity depends on what you did, rather than what you believed.

Matthew 25
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31"When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his throne in heavenly glory. 32All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.

34"Then the King will say to those on his right, 'Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.'

37"Then the righteous will answer him, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?'

40"The King will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me.'

41"Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.'

44"They also will answer, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?'

45"He will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.'

46"Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life."

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In any case, some pretty strong words from this Jesus fellow. Perhaps some words we'd all be better off living by. I for one think so.

Discuss.

[Phil153]

Even a blind squirrel finds a nut.

And it's not even a good nut. He basically said: Be kind or I'll put your ass into hellfire [censored]!

[yukoncpa]

Of course what you do determines your salvation. Other verses are:

1) Faith without works is dead - James 2-17

2)What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him? James 2-14

3) The Father, who without partiality judges according to each one's work. 1 Peter 1-17

4) And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation. John 5-29

5) For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not. Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee? Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
Matthew 25:41-46

Etc, etc.

[StayHungry]

Why I don't care: Jesus' words would've been so badly manipulated, why even bother using biblical references.

[yukoncpa]

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Why I don't care: Jesus' words would've been so badly manipulated, why even bother using biblical references.



[/ QUOTE ] I use biblical references to make biblical points to those that believe in the Bible.

[einbert]

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Why I don't care: Jesus' words would've been so badly manipulated, why even bother using biblical references.

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This is the unfortunate truth of the Bible but it's very possible he said this.

[madnak]

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And it's not even a good nut. He basically said: Be kind or I'll put your ass into hellfire [censored]!

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Right. This isn't compassion, it's a pretense of compassion based on fear. And it would have been an effective control tactic for a cult leader.

Even today, Christianity gets credit for being a compassionate religion because Jesus said "be nice or I will [censored] you!" People love to quote the palatable "be nice" part and ignore the "or ELSE" part. Hell, look how often people quote "judge not" as if it's an independent statement. Jesus never presents the idea of being compassionate as an end in itself. Only, act compassionate or suffer!

More relevant to the OP, the Bible includes all kinds of statements about who will go where. It's true that many of these statements emphasize the importance of acts - but others emphasize the importance of faith. I'll dig up chapter and verse if the Bible thumpers don't get to it first.

The point is that if you don't act correctly, you go to hell. But if you don't have faith, you also go to hell. And there are other criteria that will put you in hell (even being born in a certain nation seems to work, and Jesus never explicitly drops the "sins of the father" part of the Old Testament, though many will claim that the New Covenant erases it). Also, there are a few quotes (the wide and narrow paths, etc) that indicate (as we would expect given the tight criteria) that many more people will end up in hell than in heaven.

[bigpooch]

BOTH faith and actions are needed.

Ya'akov [James] 2:14-24 ( Jewish New Testament )

(14) What good is it, my brothers, if someone claims to
have faith but has no actions to prove it? Is such "faith"
able to save him? (15) Suppose a brother or sister is
without clothes and daily food, (16) and someone says to
him, "Shalom! Keep warm and eat heartily!" without giving
him what he needs, what good does it do? (17) Thus, faith
by itself, unaccompanied by actions, is dead.

(18) But someone will say that you have faith and I have
actions. Show me this faith of yours without the actions,
and I will show you my faith by my actions! (19) You
believe that "God is one"? [ Dt 6:4 ] Good for you! The
demons believe it too -- the thought makes them shudder
with fear! (20) But, foolish fellow, do you want to be
shown that such "faith" apart from actions is barren?

(21) Wasn't Avraham avinu [ father Abraham ] declared
righteous because of actions when he offered up his son
Yitzchak [ Isaac ] on the altar? (22) You see that his
faith worked with his actions; by the actions the faith
was made complete; (23) and the passage of the Tanakh was
fulfilled which says, "Avraham had faith in God, and it
was credited to his account as righteousness." [ Ge 15:6 ]
He was even called God's friend. [ Is 41:8, 2 Ch 20:7 ]
(24) You see that a person is declared righteous because
of actions and not because of faith alone.

[Brad1970]

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Why I don't care: Jesus' words would've been so badly manipulated, why even bother using biblical references.



[/ QUOTE ] I use biblical references to make biblical points to those that believe in the Bible.

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Too bad your biblical points are wrong.

[foal]

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Too bad your biblical points are wrong.

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Cogent as always!

Ah don't need me no reasons..

[Brad1970]

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Too bad your biblical points are wrong.

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Cogent as always!

Ah don't need me no reasons..

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OP has taken this entire passage out of context. Yukon just stated a bunch of verses. Both are wrong.

Salvation has nothing to do with works. Salvation can only come through the shed blood of Jesus on the cross. It is a free gift that you can not earn thru "works", only thru belief.

[RoundGuy]

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Salvation has nothing to do with works. Salvation can only come through the shed blood of Jesus on the cross. It is a free gift that you can not earn thru "works", only thru belief.

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You are wrong.

[foal]

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Too bad your biblical points are wrong.

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Cogent as always!

Ah don't need me no reasons..

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OP has taken this entire passage out of context. Yukon just stated a bunch of verses. Both are wrong.

Salvation has nothing to do with works. Salvation can only come through the shed blood of Jesus on the cross. It is a free gift that you can not earn thru "works", only thru belief.

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Again, cogent as always.

[vhawk01]

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Too bad your biblical points are wrong.

[/ QUOTE ]
Cogent as always!

Ah don't need me no reasons..

[/ QUOTE ]

OP has taken this entire passage out of context. Yukon just stated a bunch of verses. Both are wrong.

Salvation has nothing to do with works. Salvation can only come through the shed blood of Jesus on the cross. It is a free gift that you can not earn thru "works", only thru belief.

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Its funny how I can spend hours arguing what I think are the bad parts of Christianity, only to have Christians claim that I'm misinterpreting or taking out of context or I just don't understand.

Then someone comes along and clearly describes exactly what he thinks one of the GOOD parts of Christianity, and its probably the best possible argument for the evil of Christianity that I could ever come up with. You think that scapegoating is moral and good. I think its evil and wrong and obviously immoral. That your entire religion is based on it is atrocious, morally. And you guys cheer it and celebrate it and wear mementos. Amazing.

[oe39]

there's better stuff in most hollywood movies.

[AlexM]

Anyone who would condemn someone to "eternal" punishment for any reason is evil.

[vhawk01]

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Anyone who would condemn someone to "eternal" punishment for any reason is evil.

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How about anyone who would accept the torture and murder of an innocent, no matter how willing, in order to pay for MY sins?

[Brad1970]

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Anyone who would condemn someone to "eternal" punishment for any reason is evil.

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How about anyone who would accept the torture and murder of an innocent, no matter how willing, in order to pay for MY sins?

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Gee, we've never heard these comments before have we?

[hitch1978]

Unlike your posts, Brad, which are always original?

[vhawk01]

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Anyone who would condemn someone to "eternal" punishment for any reason is evil.

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How about anyone who would accept the torture and murder of an innocent, no matter how willing, in order to pay for MY sins?

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Gee, we've never heard these comments before have we?

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Is that supposed to be some kind of response? I dont get it. Scapegoating is immoral and wrong. You guys celebrate it. That is funny to me. I could say that killing millions and stoning witches and flooding the Earth is wrong, but you might argue "context" or "non-literal" or some other nonsense, so I'll just settle with your own argument, that Jesus is the scapegoat.