100nl... QQ hu, oop, and deep... SIGH

[kaz2107]

No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.50/$1
2 players
Converter (http://www.neildewhurst.com/hand-converter)

Stack sizes:
SB: $159.73
Hero: $199.50

Pre-flop: (2 players) Hero is BB with Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif
<font color="#cc0000">SB raises to $4</font>, <font color="#cc0000">Hero raises to $16</font>, SB calls.

Flop: 7/images/graemlins/spade.gif K/images/graemlins/spade.gif 9/images/graemlins/club.gif ($32, 2 players)
<font color="#cc0000">Hero bets $23</font>, SB calls.

Turn: K/images/graemlins/club.gif ($78, 2 players)
Hero ???? /images/graemlins/confused.gif





Reads... the table just broke and so no real meta game goin. first time i had 3 bet him since the 10 hands of HU had started. he hadnt dont n e thing good or bad since he had been at the table. i have a laggy image from the 6 handed as well as heads up. im pretty sure i have raised every btn while heads up and then cbet every flop. but nothing specific. he had been playin like 40 14 2 while 6 handed was goin and looked like a normal goof ball but nothing to make him overly awfull or n e thing.

so wut do u do here and why. flop seems stnd to me and the turn is rough imo.

discuss...

[Berky]

phwoar, sick spot on the turn. I prob bet the turn I actually think we are in front. Do you think he repops 1010 JJ preflop?

[Phildo]

I don't really see why the turn matters. If you were behind on the flop you're still behind now.

Edit: I guess I bet/fold here. I can't see him coming over the top with anything we beat. Seems almost like spewing, but c/f seems too weak and c/c is just going to give us an even more difficult river decision.

[kaz2107]

k then wut do u do on the flop then...???

berk- not sure tbh. i doubt he 4 bets TT or JJ or really n e hand for all i kno. i dont see people 4 bet all that often even with AK or AA or KK so who knows

[whyzze]

his range is super wide here and we are kind of deep. He is also pretty aggro. The pot is huuuggeee too.

b/c
crai
c/f
c/c

i think betting is going to drive out alot of the hands we get value from...except the flush draw...which it may fold out someetimes too. Which sucks because we dont want him to get a free card. But also, pot control is a major issue here.

I think he will bet alot of hands if checked to though.

Overall I like a check. I like a c/f...but I also like a crai if he makes a large bet. if he bets something like 1/2 pot...im willing to call and c/f river.

If it goes check/check...then Im going to b/f any river for 30-40ish.


I didn't do any math related to stack sizes so I'm not sure if putting in more money and folding is bad or not...if it is..then my bad.

[Unknown Soldier]

meh b/c, but marginal spot.


oops missed stacks. this is too villains dependent. i could see c/f c/c b/c and b/f all being option, prob not cr. in a vacuum id go with c/f

[AZplaya]

wow [censored] sick spot. I say bet $45 on the turn and fold to a raise. If called I'm pretty much done with this hand unless I spike a queen on teh river.

[Lego05]

Such a sick spot.


I probably woulda bet/folded and then check/called most rivers unless it was a particularly large bet......but I am not at all sure if this is optimal.

[bozzer]

[ QUOTE ]
wow [censored] sick spot. I say bet $45 on the turn and fold to a raise. If called I'm pretty much done with this hand unless I spike a queen on teh river.

[/ QUOTE ]

i'm thinking b/f too but tough spot. problem is if he calls our bet and he's half decent he can pwn us in so many ways on the river.

what will our range look like if we rr, cbet, 2barrel and then check a blank river? pretty face up no? and a blank river is supposed to be a good river... if we check a 3flush river then Kx is in our range too but it's likely also in his (betting range) so i think we'd have to c/f that.

unless we start getting very clever with c/r bluffing the river this just looks like a lose-lose spot against a decent player so i wouldn't mind a c/f at all against one.

[creamfillin]

Is he agressive with his draws?

[TheRenaissance]

How is this such a sick spot?
We are really not *that* deep. And with hands like JJ/QQ/KK you get into this spot all the time. With your image I'd check-call turn up to 50ish, and reevaluate river.

[ama0330]

[ QUOTE ]
How is this such a sick spot?
We are really not *that* deep. And with hands like JJ/QQ/KK you get into this spot all the time. With your image I'd check-call turn up to 50ish, and reevaluate river.

[/ QUOTE ]

so you invest like $90 in the hand then fold?

edit: when he has like 70 left on the river into a 170 pot?

[TheRenaissance]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
How is this such a sick spot?
We are really not *that* deep. And with hands like JJ/QQ/KK you get into this spot all the time. With your image I'd check-call turn up to 50ish, and reevaluate river.

[/ QUOTE ]

so you invest like $90 in the hand then fold?

edit: when he has like 70 left on the river into a 170 pot?

[/ QUOTE ]

Im an idiot, nm.

[thac]

My first thought was b/f $40ish, but I'm really just not sure. I can see a lot of options as viable.

[bozzer]

[ QUOTE ]

so you invest like $90 in the hand then fold?

edit: when he has like 70 left on the river into a 170 pot?

[/ QUOTE ]

i wish people would start quoting stack sizes left behind in their threads - so much of my analysis is rubbish because i'm too lazy to calculate stacks.

a HH convertor that does this for you is weaktight (http://www.weaktight.com).

[corsakh]

I really don't think you can get an adequate response here on this forum. Its a HU game, frankly I personally have absolutely no clue about it and this hand is one of the reasons why I intend to keep it this way till I hit some limit where fish runs far scare and between /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Profish2285]

You should see what the guys at HU think, its really solid over there and you will probably get better feedback. This is not the downplay uNL because I love it here but Im just not really experienced in heads up play at all. However, I guess I will take a shot. Im going to say I would c/c here upto like 40 or so. I think betting will get him to fold pretty much everything we beat while checking could induce a bet from those hands. I figure most villains are not going to be firing the river with air once we c/c a reasonable bet on the turn so I can comfortably c/f river.

[kaz2107]

alright i just posted this in the heads up forum also since it looks like no one includiging myself is very sure on how to react to this. here is a link if u wanna see wut the HU experts say or want to comment or ask questions in that thread... X post in HU forum (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&amp;Number=12892874&amp;an=0&amp;page=0#Pos t12892874)

as for the responses i think the spot is ghey obv and as many people said no option sounds very good at the moment. the people asking about reads and saying it is villian dependant i told u all tha info i had at the time while i was playin. i have no idea how he plays draws or made hands or n e thing. i was 8 tabling and really didnt have much other then wut had happened in the 10 heads up hands and his 6 max stats on PT. so not to much.