$25 NL: I'm bad at the semibluff

[WhiteWolf]

Whenever I semibluff, I usually try to make a pot-size+ raise, hoping that will force out better hands for a price cheaper than an A/I. I'm pretty sure this is a big leak and the real reason I do it because I can't work up the courage to just go ahead and push. Because of this, I often end up in awkward situations like below, where I bluff, get re-raised AI and have left myself just enough to make it close between folding and calling.

So, SSNL: please look at the below hand. Should I man up and c/r AI on flops like this? Float the flop? Is folding better? Perhaps bet smaller so I can fold if he reraises AI (hard to calculate the correct amount at the table, though)? How do you play it?

SB is 81/18 over 200 hands, and is the reason I'm at the table. He calls down light postflop.
BTN is brand new to the table, no reads.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (6 handed) Poker Stars (http://www.flopturnriver.com/reviews/Online-Poker-PokerStars.php#converter) Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (http://www.flopturnriver.com) (Format: 2+2 Forums)

MP ($28.40)
CO ($24.65)
Button ($26.80)
SB ($27.15)
Hero ($24.90)
UTG ($35.50)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
<font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Button raises to $1</font>, SB calls $0.90, Hero calls $0.75.

Flop: ($3) 6/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 7/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
SB checks, Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">Button bets $1.75</font>, SB folds, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $10</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Button raises to $25.8</font>, Hero has $13.90 left and ....

[Nick C]

At this point, it's somewhat close but still a clear fold in my opinion. I don't think your pair outs are going to be worth anything very often, and you don't have the odds to chase a straight + a backdoor flush.

That checkraise is quite an overbet, by the way. I'd imagine that raising to $7 or so would accomplish the same thing, less expensively.

Anyway, most likely your timing was just bad here (in the sense that it was unlucky). If Button is opening up his range for his steal position (or, actually, even if he's not), he's often going to have overcards that missed instead of the strong hand he apparently had this time.

[Aceium]

On the flop I would lean towards a check/call. At that point you think you still have open ended and two overs. However, for this hand when you get re-raised big you can be pretty sure that your pair outs are not good enough. You're left with 8 outs and you have to put the rest of your stack in the middle. I would have to fold here.

But in general, I think that by getting into spots like this you are going to set yourself up for a lot of tough decisions. A hand like 89s is good to play, but I would much much rather play it from a late position than the blinds. When you play SC's up front you'll see situations like this where you're drawing against an in-position better. That's a very uncomfortable spot to be in.

I'm not saying fold a playable hand to a button raise, but when you take a hand like this to see a flop, a check-raise is going to induce a fair amount of folds on the flop but probably not get you value on later streets. So what I am saying here is that by checkraising you're making him fold his nothing hands while he will probably re-raise you with his big hands. This takes a lot of the wind out of your draw.

[WhiteWolf]

Thanks for the advice, Nick + Aceium.

Aceium, re the preflop call, if it was going to be heads up between me and the button, I would probably agree with your comments. However, I called because I think having the SB in changes the dynamic a lot. The pot is already bigger because of him, and I'm going to have perfect relative position post flop (I can see exactly how the SB reacts to any cbets from BTN), and since the SB has a propensity to call with a lot of hands postflop he'll often be padding the pot for any draws I may have.

[Ranma4703]

As said, raise less on the flop. You're bluffs should be sized so that they are slightly bigger then your opponent will call, but they look like they want to be called. If they look like a bluff, it increases your chance of getting called, so you are risking more money for less effect.

[WhiteWolf]

Thanks. It sounds like the consensus is a c/r AI would not be the best line (probably because the current pot is so small)?

[wooziephantom]

Is SB calling 3-bets pf lightly as well? Perfect spot for squeeze play pf, but maybe not correct against the described sb, however, many pf-stations gets weary when the pot is 3-bet..
The rr is a bit on the big side, and a rr AI in spew here... This is an overpair a big percentage of the time, so ur overs are no good and def not odds to draw to ur straight, so dump it!

[vixticator]

Getting a great price to draw at the moment, I don't see any reason to raise especially OOP.

[KEW]

Getting 2.65 to 1 I think you have to call...

On the flop a raise to $10 is slightly larger then a pot sized raise(PSR=$8.25)...This $10 raise IMO committed you to the pot...

If button did not shove AI what your plan on the turn????

[WhiteWolf]

[ QUOTE ]

If button did not shove AI what your plan on the turn????

[/ QUOTE ]
Probably curse myself + c/f if I didn't improve. I wouldn't have enough behind for a credible 2nd barrel (probably another reason my bet size was bad).

[KEW]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

If button did not shove AI what your plan on the turn????

[/ QUOTE ]
Probably curse myself + c/f if I didn't improve. I wouldn't have enough behind for a credible 2nd barrel (probably another reason my bet size was bad).

[/ QUOTE ]

This is a problem with playing draws OOP...When we C/R anything less then AI and get called we are left in a very awkward position on turn when we do not improve(if stacks are very deep and/or short)We also can not check and be insured of a free card...We often are faced with open shoving or check folding should villain make a sizable bet...

Forgot to add it is for these reasons that I like a larger then PSR if I do choose to C/R..We are committed should villain shove and it will also most time make it correct to open shove the turn UI...When we get called we are usually left with about a 1/2 PSB which will give us 4 to 1 odds when villain calls + we will still have some small % of FE when we shove...

[creamfillin]

Anyone like a call and lead the turn? I play middle pair like this sometimes. Hopefully villain will think it's a six and just call or he'll fold his overs. If he raises the turn well we can just throw it away and if he calls we got ourselves a cheapish river and a concealed draw. If we hit on the river we can just lead out again or just check if we miss.

[vixticator]

Personally I just call and c/f UI on turn most of the time with an OESD oop. In position more raising. I think you get paid off more on straights, plus you can always bluff certain turn cards it makes sense that you would peel the flop with...

[Xanthro]

I don't understand the flop bet amount. Pot is now $4.75 and you bet $10. Would you bet twice the pot with A6 or A7?

If not, what hand are you trying to represent?

If I bet at this pot, it would be around $5 to $5.5. That's about what I'd CR with holding A6.

To me your CR looks like a semi-bluff because it's too large. Unless you have a pattern of over betting real big hands, I'd push over you.