The PPA, lets talk numbers vs results.

[DeadMoneyDad]

From a little digging and a little extrapolation, let us take a minute to look at some real numbers.

The PPA in the past two years or so has spent close to 1.5 million on lobbing efforts alone. Given some conservative estimates of expenditures on other consultants, other paid help, and freeroll sign up costs, you can extrapolate your own numbers. Very conservatively at least 3 million has been spent to date. These figures do not include any expenditure for the second half of '07.

Less than 6 months ago, before the budgets for '07 were written, there were something less than 300,000 members, and most of those were from past freeroll sign ups.

The actual cost to the PPA of all of those $5,000 freerolls is hard to calculate given the cross mix of sponsorship and leadership. Nevertheless, someone feels they paid that money regardless if the money actually went through the PPA budget directly. All of those costs should be consider at least donations in kind and money who's effectiveness is fairly questioned.

What exactly has been accomplished in real terms that actually affect the over all community?

We have 809,678 members, but the actual amount of money raised from other than the industry is a closely guarded secret, as well it should be.

We have 3 pieces of legislation percolating on the Hill. One is simply a study bill.

We have managed to make something of a media presence.

We have a website. I'll leave out the forum.... We are discussing this here, enough said.

Please feel free to add any major accomplishments I have missed. I really do mean to be completely fair to all the hard work done to date. All of that is good and helpful to the cause IMO. There has been a lot of hard work done by some very dedicated people.

But how far are we towards the goal of being able to really write a piece of legislation that will measurably change the future course of poker?

IMO we are barely on the course of getting a heavily regulated poker industry that will still be illegal in more than 25% of the States. We at best are looking at mid '09 before we even get that. IMO we are not even doing the work necessary to be a major player when that eventual bill is written. We have not shown the political players that they HAVE to address our communities concerns, not just make it easier for the industry to operate in the US. In political terms, we have picked the low hanging fruit.

We are nowhere in addressing Taxes, and most feel we will have to hope to get that after a "legalized" poker bill.

Live poker players and those who used to populate the on-line community feel the PPA is meaningless to them.

In concrete terms, we have the UIGEA, a website, some press, an expensive e-mail list and hope. With a strategy deeply dependent on continued paid help funded by the industry.

I have heard of many great ideas for raising money and building a true grassroots organization. I have attempted to pass on, however badly, many of these suggestions. I am completely baffled at the continual reliance of this organization to pay for things that many it could get for free for the asking. In addition at every turn where there was any opportunity to test out any number of grassroots building activates to address the “nothing substantial” complaint the PPA seems completely risk adverse. It has happened to many times for me to simply be over reading the strength of the PPA's hand at the time. I have gone back and asked a lot of questions about many of the ideas I have suggested as well as many others suggested by others.

I am in no way a "critic" out of any hurt sense of pride due to the authorship of any of these activities. I am critical because I have seen them work time and time again, they are tried and proven methods. I could not claim authorship if I tried.

IMO we are exceedingly weak as a poker community. It is the community itself who is at fault as much as it is the PPA's.

The US is currently by the nature of the size of the market, to some degree going to shape the future of the world poker economy. This is a double-edged sword. On the one hand it keeps the regulation from being to onerous to effectively bar new US entrants but at the same time it will affect the total world poker economy.

In many treaties on power, politics, and life, in general often the question of the nature of the strength of an organization given its source has been discussed through out history. The Prince is a good example, but not the only one.

The question and concern in my opinion is both the existing source of the "power" as well as the continued reliance on that source for continued sponsorship.

To put it crassly, the ownership of the PPA is tied directly to the source of its funds. There is absolutely nothing wrong with this as long as Machiavelli puts it the Prince does not seek to oppress his people.

I am not suggesting that the board does indeed have any desire to oppress the poker community as others may, as their is not a single shred of evidence to suport that premise.

However, as Niccolò and many others have pointed out with examples through out history, such a foundation for power is very limited and easily defeated. In his discussions, he warns repeatedly about hiring mercenaries’ and making alliances as a means of consolidating and keeping power.

I am not advocating any power struggle not an attempt to kill the Prince. I in Niccolò's example merely an attempting to do as he did and suggest you do not have to be a Prince to be able to give some thought to how to be a successful Prince.

IMO we are in a political battle.

We as a community are totally dependent on a benevolent set of nobles who have hired mercenaries in the form of lobbyists and consultants to fight the battles we either were unwilling to fight ourselves or unable to fight effectively.

As long as we "citizens" are dependent on the good will and self-interests of the Nobles in this enterprise, we are subject to their whims and really give them no choice but to continue to rely on the forces they have confidence in to fight the battles the best they can.

IMO the only fault that can be laid at the steps of the PPA is not being willing to train its own troops. Just $100,000 a year spent on grassroots training would empower many people to do a lot of the work we are currently paying close to 10 times that amount on hired hands.

Any honest lobbyist or consultant will tell you their job is much easier and cheaper to the organization, as Machiavelli and others have tried to tell people all through out history. Starting out this might have been they only way to get started, but we are well past the point of continuing on this course and expecting a good result.

D$D

[MassPoker]

OK...Lets talk numbers vs. results.

First, the PPA is still an infant organization in comparison to many other worthwhile lobbying organizations out there, so while the results (still few) are far more than we would have had without the PPA...period!

Recently, the PPA had a fly-in to Washingto D.C. for many of their State Reps who were able to attend for a seminar on "How to Lobby Congress" and then sent those people into the field and had them do exactly that. I am told about 100 members attended.

You speak of the PPA web site like it is little to nothing to brag about. Let me inform you that as the MA Rep for the PPA, we are currently facing criminalization of online poker due to a proposed bill by our illustrious Governor. The PPA, myself included, jumped on this! We unified, sent out an alert and in 2 days sent out nearly 1700 letters to legislators about the devestating consequences of the bill...and we are making much headway. This quick response was due to the well designed PPA website.

I don't blame you though D$D...because before I joined the PPA and ultimately became the MA State Rep, I too, wondered what was being done...I had serious questions about their leadership. That was until I got involved myself and stopped being part of the problem and became part of the solution. I could either sit in my computer chair all day and whine about the "injustices of this or that" or I can join the fight and try my absolute best to MAKE a difference rather than just talk about one.

That said, I take nothing from you because if you are a PPA member, (and I hope you are), then it is indeed your right to question the PPA Administration. But I ask you this, have you called and spoke with anyone from the PPA about your concerns? You might be pleasantly surprised what you'll learn.

All In,

Randy C~
MA PPA Rep

[TheEngineer]

Interesting observations. I passed them along to John Pappas and Bryan.

[TheEngineer]

Everyone: My main comment in that we are in a REAL fight here. The Politico article Berge20 posted ( www.politico.com/news/stories/1107/6733.html (http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1107/6733.html) ) sums it up pretty well. Also, we did lose HR 4411 last year 317-93. The fact that PPA hasn't yet passed legislation isn't proof that they're not doing a good job. In the face of our opposition, the fact that we have positive legislation out there (and no negative legislation) is a testament to our hard work (PPA, 2+2 members, other poker players, etc.), IMO.

Some here make it sound like it should be easy to get pro-poker legislation, if only PPA would get to work. Some make it sound like it should be so easy that PPA should be proactively taking on anything poker related, such that we shouldn't even have to ask and if they don't, then the PPA must be dysfunctional by definition.

The reality is that, with the amount of work required at the federal level required, PPA does have to prioritize its efforts. We are are entitled to opinions on how PPA should prioritize its efforts, of course, but that doesn't mean PPA is wrong by definition if they choose differnet priorities (unless their prioritization is at odds with its membership). It simply means they came to a different conclusion.

[MiltonFriedman]

good post. good feedback.

[MiltonFriedman]

"The actual cost to the PPA of all of those $5,000 freerolls is hard to calculate given the cross mix of sponsorship and leadership. Nevertheless, someone feels they paid that money regardless if the money actually went through the PPA budget directly"

I would expect that the "cost" is ZERO. It would have been monumentally STUPID for it to have been anything else. Unless you have some basis for suggesting that, please refrain from raising such red herrings.

[Uglyowl]

Interesting post D$D.

As far as I am concerned the PPA is 2 months old and started when Rich M. and John Pappas got on board. We know that the previous adminstration was mediocre at best.

What have they accomplished, well I am still able to go home and play poker after work, something that our opposition wish that we couldn’t do.

[MiltonFriedman]

"I am completely baffled at the continual reliance of this organization to pay for things that many it could get for free for the asking. "

Your general gist is answered by the MassRep who posted in this thread .... there was a significant "grassroots" education involved in the Fly-In.

Your bafflement as to allocation of PPA financial resources seems feigned. You have experience in DC. A lobbying organization PAYS for things because the people running it often have friends who sell it things. There are hundreds of people in DC who make a lot of money by selling things to lobbying groups, you name it and someone will be selling it. It is an industry.

You want to SELL the PPA on its need for allocating resources, get in line with others who are selling other themes. (I am not implying your post is a direct pitch for your expertise/services.)

[Berge20]

While that may be true, I think D$D's point is that there are a lot of people who have extensive DC type knowledge who are willing to volunteer their time/skills/etc because of their personal involvement in the cause.

[DeadMoneyDad]

[ QUOTE ]
"The actual cost to the PPA of all of those $5,000 freerolls is hard to calculate given the cross mix of sponsorship and leadership. Nevertheless, someone feels they paid that money regardless if the money actually went through the PPA budget directly"

I would expect that the "cost" is ZERO. It would have been monumentally STUPID for it to have been anything else. Unless you have some basis for suggesting that, please refrain from raising such red herrings.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes I too doubt that the money for these efforts came out of the PPA's budget. I.E. the PPA did not have to pay PS or FT to run these events nor pony up the cash for the prizes.

However FT and PS as major sponsors of the PPA among others.

I raise the point only in terms of general costs vs rewards only. In some form of accounting some amount of money was spent in accumulating the contact information gained from these events. I do know that the PPA also expended some time and money on cleaning up the database because of players entering mutiple events. That is a direct expense out of the PPA's operating budget.

This IMO is a real "cost" of the over all effort.


D$D

[Skallagrim]

Given that repealing, amending, or otherwise exempting poker from the UIGEA has got to be the PPA's top priority, that most of their money is spent on lobbying does not surprise or bother me. Lobbyists accomplish most of what is done in DC.

Grassroots organizing is an interesting concept here, others are experts there though, so I only offer my humble opinion that TE's work prior to his board membership, and TE's continued work now that he is on the board, seem like the most that we can accomplish at the "grassroots" right now. I do also believe, however, that motivating and involving our members even more will happen in the future.

I personally would like the PPA to also involve itself more in litigation (like the ACLU and NRA do also), and have already communicated my specific ideas regarding that to TE. Having a central resource to help defend poker players in Court would be a great asset, both to the members and in terms of positive publicity.

As to taxes, I still dont see the urgency there; the Wexler bill is tax neutral for us, the Frank bill anticipates new taxes, but nothing specific is in there yet ... I dont think it a smart move to turn our back on Barney (especially since he is the "freedom" guy as opposed to the "skill games are different" guy) just because onerous taxes might be later proposed.

The PPA did move, and moved pretty good, with the help of its local Rep Randy, to respond to the MA casino bill hypocracy ... that effort continues, so what else exactly should the PPA do D$D? I like the idea of more "grassroots" movement in general, but what are you specifically suggesting?

Skallagrim

[Tuff_Fish]

[ QUOTE ]


.
.
IMO we are exceedingly weak as a poker community. It is the community itself who is at fault as much as it is the PPA's.

..
.


[/ QUOTE ]

For having millions of online poker players in the US as some claim, we certainly don't make much of a showing politically.

I don't know how to fix it, but that is the problem.

Tuff

[TheEngineer]

[ QUOTE ]
I personally would like the PPA to also involve itself more in litigation (like the ACLU and NRA do also), and have already communicated my specific ideas regarding that to TE. Having a central resource to help defend poker players in Court would be a great asset, both to the members and in terms of positive publicity.

[/ QUOTE ]

Agree 100%. This aligns perfectly with the PPA mission statement. John Pappas and I have discussed this a few times. I thank you again for putting your plan together. I'll discuss this again with John next time we speak (currently scheduled for Friday).

[DeadMoneyDad]

[ QUOTE ]
Interesting observations. I passed them along to John Pappas and Bryan.

[/ QUOTE ]

I have spoken to both about my concerns some as recently as last night.

But thanks for the effort.


D$D

[TheEngineer]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Interesting observations. I passed them along to John Pappas and Bryan.

[/ QUOTE ]

I have spoken to both about my concerns some as recently as last night.

But thanks for the effort.


D$D

[/ QUOTE ]

No problem.

[Grasshopp3r]

The PPA didn't step up for the cool UIGEA poker chips, which pisses me off. That was a huge bang for the buck effort.

[DeadMoneyDad]

[ QUOTE ]


Recently, the PPA had a fly-in to Washingto D.C. for many of their State Reps who were able to attend for a seminar on "How to Lobby Congress" and then sent those people into the field and had them do exactly that. I am told about 100 members attended.

[/ QUOTE ]

I attended the fly-in.

[ QUOTE ]
That said, I take nothing from you because if you are a PPA member, (and I hope you are), then it is indeed your right to question the PPA Administration. But I ask you this, have you called and spoke with anyone from the PPA about your concerns? You might be pleasantly surprised what you'll learn.

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually I was more often than not unpleasantly suprised the more I learned.

I know there is a ton of work to accomplish what has been accomplished on the Hill.

I imgaine there are a thousand or more issues I may never know anything about.

My main point and from the recent news article John was quoted as saying the organization is moving in the grassroots direction. My question is more of one of speed and commitment to that effort.

Building a grassroots organization that is worth a damn is very hard work. It requires a good deal of commitment first from the parent organization to begin to motivate its membership. But if sucessful there is a tipping point where every ounce of energy and dime of investment comes back in some mutiple of the investment.

IMO we should to day be well at seeing that tipping point in terms of where we need to be as an organization to achieve the goals ahead of us.

I've made whatever name I have in this game from both doing it right from the begining as well as comming in late and cleaning up the mess and squandered opportunities and time of less sucessful efforts. Of the two I prefer starting early, it is not only more fun it is more often sucessful.

IMO right now it is not too late for almost anyone with good experience to make this happen in time. But with every passing week the effort will get harder and ultimately more expensive. This will either be in the final result or the amount of money and effort to get the job done.


D$D

[DeadMoneyDad]

[ QUOTE ]
"I am completely baffled at the continual reliance of this organization to pay for things that many it could get for free for the asking. "

Your general gist is answered by the MassRep who posted in this thread .... there was a significant "grassroots" education involved in the Fly-In.

Your bafflement as to allocation of PPA financial resources seems feigned. You have experience in DC. A lobbying organization PAYS for things because the people running it often have friends who sell it things. There are hundreds of people in DC who make a lot of money by selling things to lobbying groups, you name it and someone will be selling it. It is an industry.

You want to SELL the PPA on its need for allocating resources, get in line with others who are selling other themes. (I am not implying your post is a direct pitch for your expertise/services.)

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually my point is fairly close to yours in that because this town is built the way it is, it is often too easy to try and buy what you think you need when for a little more initial investment like buying a house with a down payment your over all costs are much less than renting.

Part of the problem might have arrisen from one of my initial meetings with John. I wasn't very clear in an answer I gave John to a passing question and I may very well been seen as one of the thousands in this town trying to pitch a bill of good.

I am completely uncomfortable with the course of my relationship with John. I called him initially to simply volunteer, over a month later before we got a chance to meet he told me he was looking to hire a grassroots person. I did "apply" for that position while the initial meeting had been more properly an open offer of suport and any help needed.

This mixed up nature of my desire to do whatever was needed to help the cause was further muddled before the fly-in as I had lined up various offers of help for the fly-in and John had originally said the decision on the grassroots position would be made before the fly-in. So we ended up again trying to accomplish mutiple goals in a single meeting.

So to some degree I understand if John doesn't have a warm and fuzzy feeling about my commitment to the cause. Our personal time tables and goals has been very mixed up to say the least.

However other than my off hand answer to John's question about my opinion oif the cost of a real grassroots effort in KY, I have never pitched John a single idea, product, or service for personal gain.

What pains me is the number of free or at worst number of things I have suggested at or near wholesale costs that I have tracked down and offered with no mark up on my part that haven't been seriously considered or later purchased at full retail.

But if you add in my tourtured relationship with TE and being identified as a critic of the PPA, when I thought my motives were fairly clear to John, I guess it is understandable that perhaps I was percieved as just another campaign hand and former Federal Appointee trying to make a living in DC. Near as I can tell John has been hit up almost all of them at one time or another, and with every piece of press his phone must ring even more. This last one concerning spending might have really brought out some of the bottom feeders in droves.

But grassroots in many campaigns is often the "red headed step child" semi-tolerated, called a family member when the need arrises but never really trusted.

Sadly grassroots does more with less dollars than any other portion of any campaign. I've been involved in efforts where I had to raise every dollar I needed, even though fund raising was never ever any part of my duties.

So this really is more of a conceptional argument. Unless the "powers that be" have experienced the return of a good grassroots effort they are hard to convince. As you stated there are too many people with fancy spread sheets and power point presentations who make good livings selling crap in this town. The net effect is too many people who have been around for any length of time have been burned and get a little jaded to what often sounds like empty promises.


D$D

[DeadMoneyDad]

[ QUOTE ]
The PPA didn't step up for the cool UIGEA poker chips, which pisses me off. That was a huge bang for the buck effort.

[/ QUOTE ]

That was one hell of a deal the wholeseller was willing to do! With a little lead time the PPA could have sold off autographed chipsets from the pros and their net cost would have been a profit!

I've still got the guy's contact info and spoke to him last month.

Damn they were pretty.... casino quality custom printed damn near for free.

You did well on that one.


D$D

[DeadMoneyDad]

[ QUOTE ]
Given that repealing, amending, or otherwise exempting poker from the UIGEA has got to be the PPA's top priority, that most of their money is spent on lobbying does not surprise or bother me. Lobbyists accomplish most of what is done in DC.

[/ QUOTE ]

However, it is the grassroots efforts in those Rep's States that makes the Lobbyists job much easier. IMO we have convinced close to the maximum members we can on the logic and merits of our case. Perhaps there are more that can be reached this way but not enough with this method alone. You are going to have to show quite a few in the middle they HAVE to vote you way. If you don't someone else will at least convince them to sit out or worse oppose you.

Lobbyists are very good at getting the most out of what you give them to work with. Logic, reason, and even a few Billion in new revenue will only get us so far. Even that might not be enough given the multiple layers of opposition against us.

But a true grassroots organization with proven muscle changes the game in many ways and allows those top tier Lobbyists and consultants jobs much easier. Right now they are running the show because "we the members" and the PPA's lack of confidence in us has them make the lobbyists work too hard at the basics.

If we showed some strength as an organization, we allow them to put their best talents to work with the most advantage. Right now, we have a racecar sitting in traffic in first gear in terms of lobbying talent. We members could empower that magnificent car by giving it new road to travel.

[ QUOTE ]
I do also believe, however, that motivating and involving our members even more will happen in the future.

[/ QUOTE ]

I am sure it will, it almost has to for us to move forward in something less than first gear.

[ QUOTE ]
I personally would like the PPA to also involve itself more in litigation (like the ACLU and NRA do also), and have already communicated my specific ideas regarding that to TE. Having a central resource to help defend poker players in Court would be a great asset, both to the members and in terms of positive publicity.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is a very good way to show another tangible benefit of membership. This helps over-come the "what have you done to deserve my annual membership renewal" objections.

[ QUOTE ]
As to taxes, I still dont see the urgency there; the Wexler bill is tax neutral for us, the Frank bill anticipates new taxes, but nothing specific is in there yet ... I dont think it a smart move to turn our back on Barney (especially since he is the "freedom" guy as opposed to the "skill games are different" guy) just because onerous taxes might be later proposed.

[/ QUOTE ]

Politically these bills are going to change as they go through committee and hearings. They are only the outlines of future legislation. They may currently be the upper limit of what the PPA and board feels is possible given the level of commitment out of your average members.

IMO we can and must try to do better. We may not get tax help, and it may be over reaching to expect it for sure. However, we need to also help the organization. We can continue to play defense and hope to get back to pre-UIGEA and not have to eat a ton regulation in the process. Nevertheless, if we are stronger we can move our "core" wishes and put the opposition on defense by making some offensive moves. Let them fight this battle on our terms not we theirs.

[ QUOTE ]
The PPA did move, and moved pretty good, with the help of its local Rep Randy, to respond to the MA casino bill hypocracy ... that effort continues, so what else exactly should the PPA do D$D? I like the idea of more "grassroots" movement in general, but what are you specifically suggesting?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'll give you some examples of out of the box suggestions I've made that I think would have made a difference not only in terms of organization but actual cost savings.

Bumper stickers. I'm a campaign guy I was shocked that I could not even buy a bumper sticker on the web-site. I found a poker friendly printer and we designed and had printed 10,000 bumper stickers at near cost. I had hoped a good portion of them would have been on cars in KY. They could have put 500 of them on the website for sale at about $3.00 and if they sold most of them paid for the entire lot. We would have also made a visible presence just getting them on cars in KY.

Poker Chips. Grasshopp3r got a nice design idea going on this forum and had me carry the ball. Because the Million Chip March idea was seen as not politically viable as Ney got chips I suggested because of the price I negotiated that we have printed some commemorative chips and perhaps some chipsets to use at the Fly-in. IMO if you had auctioned off just half of them as autographed sets for even just the normal retail of lesser quality chip-sets you would have made money and still had a few chipsets left over. In the end the person responsible for the chips for just the pro players and Congressmen failed, and there was a scramble to just get chips for that small "big" game.

I would have used the contacts I had made to hold at least two MTT's as at least one should have included everyone who took the trouble to fly-in. As it was the "big kids" went off to the big game and the rest of us were on our own. I had chips, tables, cards, dealers, and people trained to run MTT events for up to 500 people.

In less than a week of effort, I had all manner of volunteers and resources, some may not have been needed, but I do know from having attended the event that the PPA paid for a number of things they could have had free. I know John was busy at this time and perhaps thought I was talking out of my rear about what could have been done, but facts are facts.

Fundraising. You could have any of the pros show up almost any night in this area and hold a PPA fund raising event and get a minimum of 200~300 new dues paying members. You would not even need major cash prizes. You had time to run at least 2 of these with a little planning during this fly-in. You have pros in town for the up coming Judiciary hearings you could set up to pull these off on a regular basis by now.

PPA Store. I have a couple of contacts that would run a "no touch" Store for the PPA. Given some of the item prices I was able to dig up, most of the time the store even using up to a 1/3 of the items for giveaways for other grassroots events would be close to break-even. Find the right person to employ and this becomes a potential profit center.

Organization. You empower through training the State Reps. You teach them how to motivate the troops. You give them a budget of items from the store or donations in kind to hold events linked to specific goals. For example Mass. If Randy has a few trinkets and the necessary contacts and help through training he could hold a training/organizing session and have a nice fun free poker event to reward the people who got involved. The next time he made the calls more people show up. From that he builds a core of people he knows he can count on. The combination of concrete action and spirit of fun builds an organization in MA that even Sen. Kennedy on the Senate Judiciary a Committee we have to go through would become aware of through his staffers.

KY. KY was the proving ground. You try out some of these ideas along with a couple of hundred too long to mention and create a training manual for State Reps for '08. Right now John's budget writing effort and concretely ability to demonstrate the value of the investment for grassroots would be a dream not a sales pitch based on hope. Between now and the first primaries you continue to refine that playbook and through training you know before the campaign season where you can make a difference. Your legislative lobbing efforts get magnified many fold. Greenberg and the consultants are not planning a Hill fight, but a national '08 strategy, looking at specific races on offense, not defense. They could be doing this with confidence not hope now.

Motivation. You create meaningful concrete visible efforts that are fun for the members. Fun is the key. You find creative ways to "reward" hard work of your volunteers. The biggie on Presidential Campaigns was always driving or even getting to ride in a Presidential motorcade, the next were the tarmac photo ops. There are thousands of ways to "reward" volunteers, as they are the backbone of your real strength.

Testing. You have to constantly test your troops. You have to get creative in constantly looking for excuses to see who is still engaged and can do the job. More importantly you have to test your State Reps. Sadly, to say I imagine some of them have been barely heard from. All need to be given the tools to be more productive than TE. Can you imagine what TE could accomplish with a little help? Yes some may need to be replaced. But they should be at least given the chance to excel first.

State Reps. You don't need 50 paid employees to keep an eye out for State legislation that might hurt us, that is a red herring. But you do need to train State Reps how to spot opportunities. Don Signore from Chicago is a prefect example. The PPA posted on its website his news story, but no one tried to get him or the bar league in question on the phone. I tracked down the league, as I had the nexus of a number of news stories posted on the PPA site, just to see if this activity was being done. I spoke to Don and John to see if we could get Don to the fly-in and make sure John had the Chicago paper's DC stringers to follow up on this "Mr Smith Goes to Washington" story. I even had to introduce Don to the Trib stringer.

It doesn't take much to get this ball rolling. With the proper motivation and a little campaign trash you'd would be amazed what your "average" person can do in politics. I know as there are people who have come up to me years later who got involved in an effort I was helping and told me they were amazed at what they accomplished. I am gratified to say some have become from raw political neophytes volunteers to campaign managers and very strong grassroots organizers.

As I've said there are two kinds of grassroots organizers the expensive and the ones who had to learn to "live off the land." We all want to be the well paid ones, but not all know how to get the most out of every buck they are given. Most of the time I've ended up having to raise the seed money for the ideas that ended up bringing in more then the initial investment just to prove the worth of my ideas, that approach sucks, but you often have to do it. There were people here willing to pay for the DC chips out of their own pocket just to make it happen. Why? Because someone asked them to step up.

It can be done. It takes hard work, but most of all a true sense of understanding the "care and feeding" of your volunteers. Volunteers are a strange group. They will follow you through hell, like hanging 100,000 door hangers in less than 3 days in the cold fall rain, knowing that because of the rain 3/4 of the people didn't show up, if you treat them right. In that, little adventure, there were people who showed up for a single 2 hour commitment and worked 10 or more hours all three days. I'm still very proud of that crew. But you misuse a volunteer core and that campaign HQ can get damn empty in a hurry.

IMO a concrete action that is seen as worthwhile and a spirit of having fun doing it are the keys. Figuring out creative rewards that don't cost a dime is the art.

Grassroots is not a job, it really is a religion.

D$D

[Skallagrim]

Thanks D$D, those are exactly the kinds of suggestions I was looking for.

I remember once asking the PPA, as NH rep, for some flyer I could distribute at the proliferation of "charity-poker" card rooms in my state to generate new members. They e-mailed me back that they were working on one. That was 8 months ago.

There is clearly a lot of room for this organization to grow.

Skallagrim

[Lottery Larry]

"IMO we are barely on the course of getting a heavily regulated poker industry that will still be illegal in more than 25% of the States"

Is it one of your goals to have in place a federal law, regarding the legality of poker, that supercedes the rights of states to decide for themselves how they want to handle gambling?

[TheEngineer]

[ QUOTE ]
Thanks D$D, those are exactly the kinds of suggestions I was looking for.

I remember once asking the PPA, as NH rep, for some flyer I could distribute at the proliferation of "charity-poker" card rooms in my state to generate new members. They e-mailed me back that they were working on one. That was 8 months ago.

There is clearly a lot of room for this organization to grow.

Skallagrim

[/ QUOTE ]

That's definitely how it was back then. I sent a few emails to PPA back then and got replies like yours, which was very discouraging. The changes since those dark days have clearly been dramatic. It's a huge turnaround, actually. There is obviously more room to grow, and I believe they'll do it.

[Lottery Larry]

[ QUOTE ]
I remember once asking the PPA, as NH rep, for some flyer I could distribute at the proliferation of "charity-poker" card rooms in my state to generate new members. They e-mailed me back that they were working on one. That was 8 months ago.

[/ QUOTE ]

Forgive my intrusion, but haven't some said that the poker community needs to do more to proactively help?

Why didn't you come up with a flyer and submit to PPA for approval? Add the warning that you'd be distributing the flyer under their name, if they didn't get back to you in a month.

?

[Lottery Larry]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Thanks D$D, those are exactly the kinds of suggestions I was looking for.

I remember once asking the PPA, as NH rep, for some flyer I could distribute at the proliferation of "charity-poker" card rooms in my state to generate new members. They e-mailed me back that they were working on one. That was 8 months ago.

There is clearly a lot of room for this organization to grow.

Skallagrim

[/ QUOTE ]

That's definitely how it was back then. I sent a few emails to PPA back then and got replies like yours, which was very discouraging. The changes since those dark days have clearly been dramatic. It's a huge turnaround, actually. There is obviously more room to grow, and I believe they'll do it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Is this any different than other new/growing lobbying interest organizations?

[Skallagrim]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I remember once asking the PPA, as NH rep, for some flyer I could distribute at the proliferation of "charity-poker" card rooms in my state to generate new members. They e-mailed me back that they were working on one. That was 8 months ago.

[/ QUOTE ]

Forgive my intrusion, but haven't some said that the poker community needs to do more to proactively help?

Why didn't you come up with a flyer and submit to PPA for approval? Add the warning that you'd be distributing the flyer under their name, if they didn't get back to you in a month.

?

[/ QUOTE ]

My follow up e-mail was a request for authorization to make my own flyer, or to just copy one from the website at my own expense. I never got a response to that one either.

So whenever I play there now I just wear my PPA pin, and talk about the PPA between hands. Also, this charity-poker thing is quite a poker-positive development in NH, there is little reason to rock the boat here at the moment.

Like, TE, I see this situation slowly improving.

What have you done LL?

Skallagrim

[Lottery Larry]

Oh, I certainly have no standing at ALL to complain about anyone's efforts. That wasn't where I was going- my apologies if you saw it as an attack of some kind.

Do you think it would be inappropriate for you to create a poster, submit for approval with a deadline, then go ahead and post?

I'm not involved in a grass-roots or growing political organization, so I don't know the etiquette of overcoming organizational sloth with personal effort.

[DeadMoneyDad]

[ QUOTE ]
"IMO we are barely on the course of getting a heavily regulated poker industry that will still be illegal in more than 25% of the States"

Is it one of your goals to have in place a federal law, regarding the legality of poker, that supercedes the rights of states to decide for themselves how they want to handle gambling?

[/ QUOTE ]

No, personally I think that is an impratical goal. The same is a law that makes poker illegal at the Federal level.

That is why to me the need for powerful State Reps is so important. We could win the battle at the Federal level and loose the war in the States.


D$D

[TheEngineer]

[ QUOTE ]
Like, TE, I see this situation slowly improving.

[/ QUOTE ]

I actually see the situation rapidly improving. I'll send you a PM shortly.

[DeadMoneyDad]

[ QUOTE ]
Oh, I certainly have no standing at ALL to complain about anyone's efforts. That wasn't where I was going- my apologies if you saw it as an attack of some kind.

Do you think it would be inappropriate for you to create a poster, submit for approval with a deadline, then go ahead and post?

I'm not involved in a grass-roots or growing political organization, so I don't know the etiquette of overcoming organizational sloth with personal effort.

[/ QUOTE ]

A willingness to work hard at wothwile efforts and a good spirit is all that is needed to get started. Grassroots is both very complex and exremely easy. The actual steps are simple to the extreme and almost mundane. The complex is getting it going and keeping it running smoothly.

So far I do not suggest the "squeeky wheel" apporach, if nothing else I've shown that just isn't working.

TE's model in this organization is perhaps the best so far.

The easiest is offering yourself up as cannon fodder. /images/graemlins/wink.gif


D$D

[DeadMoneyDad]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I remember once asking the PPA, as NH rep, for some flyer I could distribute at the proliferation of "charity-poker" card rooms in my state to generate new members. They e-mailed me back that they were working on one. That was 8 months ago.

[/ QUOTE ]

Forgive my intrusion, but haven't some said that the poker community needs to do more to proactively help?

Why didn't you come up with a flyer and submit to PPA for approval? Add the warning that you'd be distributing the flyer under their name, if they didn't get back to you in a month.

?

[/ QUOTE ]

My follow up e-mail was a request for authorization to make my own flyer, or to just copy one from the website at my own expense. I never got a response to that one either.

So whenever I play there now I just wear my PPA pin, and talk about the PPA between hands. Also, this charity-poker thing is quite a poker-positive development in NH, there is little reason to rock the boat here at the moment.

Like, TE, I see this situation slowly improving.

What have you done LL?

Skallagrim

[/ QUOTE ]


Well you shouldn't ever have a problem printing anything off the website and passing it out. I would be nice to have the ability to get some supplies like this through State Reps or such, but we're a little bit aways from that.

That was one of the reasons I first sought out a poker friendly printer.

As long as you identify yourself as simply a PPA member who is trying to help out "the cause" you can really do no harm with "educational" efforts.

I've suggested to John and Patrick the Grassroots consultant a number of ways to faciliate "avarage" members helping in "converting" freeroll members. The technology is quite easy, but the site isn't currently set up to handle this quite just yet.


D$D

[DeadMoneyDad]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]


That's definitely how it was back then. I sent a few emails to PPA back then and got replies like yours, which was very discouraging. The changes since those dark days have clearly been dramatic. It's a huge turnaround, actually. There is obviously more room to grow, and I believe they'll do it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Is this any different than other new/growing lobbying interest organizations?

[/ QUOTE ]

Well yes and no.

It really depends on your prespective of the time scales involved. Most national presidential efforts start and end in the time the PPA has been around.

Move On and other such organizations exploded with a ton of money and effort right out of the box.

We as poker players, IMO, have almost the "Perfect Storm" of issues, timing, numbers, and potentially money to run a less than 2 year operation and be sucessful.

So if you want to be around as long as the NRA you would still have that option is there are enough issues left to keep people involved. I feel that there are enough people and "secondary" issues for a long lasting organization. But I'm not entirely sure the Poker Community as it is currently has the motivation for a long drawn out fight for every single poker issue both on-line and live.

That is why I favor a modified "Persidential Campaign" model geared torwards single issue advoacy.

We hit them hard in '08 and reap the rewards if possible in the legislative election off year of '09. If we are only partly sucessful in '09 we clean up with presure from a '10 effort.

In politics there is nothing wrong with planning for more than you can achieve, what is self-destructive is setting your goals too low. Yes way over reaching has its own dangers in only the hearts and minds of your members. As long as they understand the true objective and are willing to seek to over achieve then your risks are minimal.

As it is I have been constantly amazed what a well organized group of "average" citizens can accomplish when given the right foundation and simply asked to "lend a hand."


IMO,


D$D

[MassPoker]

[ QUOTE ]
As it is I have been constantly amazed what a well organized group of "average" citizens can accomplish when given the right foundation and simply asked to "lend a hand."

[/ QUOTE ]

Personally, I see this as one of the "rewards" as an answer to your initial query. The PPA has stepped up essentially unifying the 50 states into one cohesive and unified body.

Lets be realistic about this for a moment; and brutally honest. Before John Pappas came on board, PPA struggled with some very negative administration problems. I think we can all agree on that. In contrast, we are starting to see some very positive things happening now, and I dare say that John Pappas is doing an awesome job in the short amount of time he has been on board. Given that, I expect we will see major "rewards" on both the State and Federal fronts very soon. Call me an eternal optimist, but I like the direction the PPA is currently going in. I, for one, see John Pappas as a HUGE asset to an organization that needed DRASTIC changes.

OK...Here's another question; Can you give me the name of another organization that is doing even a tenth of what the PPA is doing now for the rights of poker players? There have been several that attempted to "get off the ground" but really had little to no success at all.

D$D...your posts are very well thought out and thought provoking. You ask the tough questions and you actually make some very good points. I've gone back in your thread posting history, and I must say; I am very impressed. I'd think your talents would be a great asset to the PPA in my opinion.

Overall, the PPA has a precarious "past", but we are quickly becoming a very recognizable, and powerful force in the arena of poker politics. As the eternal optimist, I can only hope that we will see the PPA grow into a very powerful "voice" for all of us poker players in the US.

All In,

Randy C~
MA PPA Rep

[IndyFish]

D$D, I have to admit that I often "skim" your posts due to their incredible length. You certainly suffer no writer's block! But those suggestions you posted were brilliant. I'd especially love a PPA coffee mug to show off at work.

FWIW, I'm not saying your posts are without substance (far from it), just that they sometimes meander here and there on the way to the final destination. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[DeadMoneyDad]

[ QUOTE ]
D$D, I have to admit that I often "skim" your posts due to their incredible length. You certainly suffer no writer's block! But those suggestions you posted were brilliant. I'd especially love a PPA coffee mug to show off at work.

FWIW, I'm not saying your posts are without substance (far from it), just that they sometimes meander here and there on the way to the final destination. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Who is your PPA State Rep, and what have you done for the organization lately is how I would handle that issue. With autorization I can have the PPA logo and motto printed on almost anything that doesn't move too fast.


D$D

[DeadMoneyDad]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
As it is I have been constantly amazed what a well organized group of "average" citizens can accomplish when given the right foundation and simply asked to "lend a hand."

[/ QUOTE ]

Personally, I see this as one of the "rewards" as an answer to your initial query. The PPA has stepped up essentially unifying the 50 states into one cohesive and unified body.

Lets be realistic about this for a moment; and brutally honest. Before John Pappas came on board, PPA struggled with some very negative administration problems. I think we can all agree on that. In contrast, we are starting to see some very positive things happening now, and I dare say that John Pappas is doing an awesome job in the short amount of time he has been on board. Given that, I expect we will see major "rewards" on both the State and Federal fronts very soon. Call me an eternal optimist, but I like the direction the PPA is currently going in. I, for one, see John Pappas as a HUGE asset to an organization that needed DRASTIC changes.

[/ QUOTE ]

I literally woke up with this post running around in my head bothering me and re-reading it I know why.

From the first time I spoke to John through my conversation with him this past Tuesday night, one thing has been crystal clear. The PPA is not lacking one iota of pride, commitment, and dedication from its leadership. From the few members of the board I have had much interaction with beyond John and TE here my firm feeling is there is not a problem with the overall goals and direction from the Board down.

John IMO works harder than many two people in this town given his age, experience, and ability to make more at a much easier task.

I have felt free to push John and the PPA in part out of my opinion of their complete willingness to not only take but welcome critics who also try to offer solutions. This is a rare quality to find in a single man let alone an organization.

The pride born out of the commitment to be the best possible single issue advoacy group possible has been clear from my first conversation with John and lead to my first post on the PPA in this forum, that if you all remember caused something of a dust up.

That seed should both always be nurtured and appreciated in any organization, as it is not something easily added or incorporated later on in the building process. It is either present and demanded as the price of entry or almost never permeates every action of a large organization.

When TE said he was going to send the OP to John I cringed, as I had spoken to John about the forums, the night before, and we both agreed he had neither the time nor the desire to read all of what gets posted in the open free wheeling discussions here.

So I don't post this to some how suck up to John, as I really hope he never reads it. I post this to again assure this community as I did on my first post on this subject, my personal read, that we have a very capable "leader" who's talents we should be daily greatful to have as a resource.


D$D

[whangarei]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Given that repealing, amending, or otherwise exempting poker from the UIGEA has got to be the PPA's top priority, that most of their money is spent on lobbying does not surprise or bother me. Lobbyists accomplish most of what is done in DC.

[/ QUOTE ]

However, it is the grassroots efforts in those Rep's States that makes the Lobbyists job much easier. IMO we have convinced close to the maximum members we can on the logic and merits of our case. Perhaps there are more that can be reached this way but not enough with this method alone. You are going to have to show quite a few in the middle they HAVE to vote you way. If you don't someone else will at least convince them to sit out or worse oppose you.

Lobbyists are very good at getting the most out of what you give them to work with. Logic, reason, and even a few Billion in new revenue will only get us so far. Even that might not be enough given the multiple layers of opposition against us.

But a true grassroots organization with proven muscle changes the game in many ways and allows those top tier Lobbyists and consultants jobs much easier. Right now they are running the show because "we the members" and the PPA's lack of confidence in us has them make the lobbyists work too hard at the basics.

If we showed some strength as an organization, we allow them to put their best talents to work with the most advantage. Right now, we have a racecar sitting in traffic in first gear in terms of lobbying talent. We members could empower that magnificent car by giving it new road to travel.

[ QUOTE ]
I do also believe, however, that motivating and involving our members even more will happen in the future.

[/ QUOTE ]

I am sure it will, it almost has to for us to move forward in something less than first gear.

[ QUOTE ]
I personally would like the PPA to also involve itself more in litigation (like the ACLU and NRA do also), and have already communicated my specific ideas regarding that to TE. Having a central resource to help defend poker players in Court would be a great asset, both to the members and in terms of positive publicity.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is a very good way to show another tangible benefit of membership. This helps over-come the "what have you done to deserve my annual membership renewal" objections.

[ QUOTE ]
As to taxes, I still dont see the urgency there; the Wexler bill is tax neutral for us, the Frank bill anticipates new taxes, but nothing specific is in there yet ... I dont think it a smart move to turn our back on Barney (especially since he is the "freedom" guy as opposed to the "skill games are different" guy) just because onerous taxes might be later proposed.

[/ QUOTE ]

Politically these bills are going to change as they go through committee and hearings. They are only the outlines of future legislation. They may currently be the upper limit of what the PPA and board feels is possible given the level of commitment out of your average members.

IMO we can and must try to do better. We may not get tax help, and it may be over reaching to expect it for sure. However, we need to also help the organization. We can continue to play defense and hope to get back to pre-UIGEA and not have to eat a ton regulation in the process. Nevertheless, if we are stronger we can move our "core" wishes and put the opposition on defense by making some offensive moves. Let them fight this battle on our terms not we theirs.

[ QUOTE ]
The PPA did move, and moved pretty good, with the help of its local Rep Randy, to respond to the MA casino bill hypocracy ... that effort continues, so what else exactly should the PPA do D$D? I like the idea of more "grassroots" movement in general, but what are you specifically suggesting?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'll give you some examples of out of the box suggestions I've made that I think would have made a difference not only in terms of organization but actual cost savings.

Bumper stickers. I'm a campaign guy I was shocked that I could not even buy a bumper sticker on the web-site. I found a poker friendly printer and we designed and had printed 10,000 bumper stickers at near cost. I had hoped a good portion of them would have been on cars in KY. They could have put 500 of them on the website for sale at about $3.00 and if they sold most of them paid for the entire lot. We would have also made a visible presence just getting them on cars in KY.

Poker Chips. Grasshopp3r got a nice design idea going on this forum and had me carry the ball. Because the Million Chip March idea was seen as not politically viable as Ney got chips I suggested because of the price I negotiated that we have printed some commemorative chips and perhaps some chipsets to use at the Fly-in. IMO if you had auctioned off just half of them as autographed sets for even just the normal retail of lesser quality chip-sets you would have made money and still had a few chipsets left over. In the end the person responsible for the chips for just the pro players and Congressmen failed, and there was a scramble to just get chips for that small "big" game.

I would have used the contacts I had made to hold at least two MTT's as at least one should have included everyone who took the trouble to fly-in. As it was the "big kids" went off to the big game and the rest of us were on our own. I had chips, tables, cards, dealers, and people trained to run MTT events for up to 500 people.

In less than a week of effort, I had all manner of volunteers and resources, some may not have been needed, but I do know from having attended the event that the PPA paid for a number of things they could have had free. I know John was busy at this time and perhaps thought I was talking out of my rear about what could have been done, but facts are facts.

Fundraising. You could have any of the pros show up almost any night in this area and hold a PPA fund raising event and get a minimum of 200~300 new dues paying members. You would not even need major cash prizes. You had time to run at least 2 of these with a little planning during this fly-in. You have pros in town for the up coming Judiciary hearings you could set up to pull these off on a regular basis by now.

PPA Store. I have a couple of contacts that would run a "no touch" Store for the PPA. Given some of the item prices I was able to dig up, most of the time the store even using up to a 1/3 of the items for giveaways for other grassroots events would be close to break-even. Find the right person to employ and this becomes a potential profit center.

Organization. You empower through training the State Reps. You teach them how to motivate the troops. You give them a budget of items from the store or donations in kind to hold events linked to specific goals. For example Mass. If Randy has a few trinkets and the necessary contacts and help through training he could hold a training/organizing session and have a nice fun free poker event to reward the people who got involved. The next time he made the calls more people show up. From that he builds a core of people he knows he can count on. The combination of concrete action and spirit of fun builds an organization in MA that even Sen. Kennedy on the Senate Judiciary a Committee we have to go through would become aware of through his staffers.

KY. KY was the proving ground. You try out some of these ideas along with a couple of hundred too long to mention and create a training manual for State Reps for '08. Right now John's budget writing effort and concretely ability to demonstrate the value of the investment for grassroots would be a dream not a sales pitch based on hope. Between now and the first primaries you continue to refine that playbook and through training you know before the campaign season where you can make a difference. Your legislative lobbing efforts get magnified many fold. Greenberg and the consultants are not planning a Hill fight, but a national '08 strategy, looking at specific races on offense, not defense. They could be doing this with confidence not hope now.

Motivation. You create meaningful concrete visible efforts that are fun for the members. Fun is the key. You find creative ways to "reward" hard work of your volunteers. The biggie on Presidential Campaigns was always driving or even getting to ride in a Presidential motorcade, the next were the tarmac photo ops. There are thousands of ways to "reward" volunteers, as they are the backbone of your real strength.

Testing. You have to constantly test your troops. You have to get creative in constantly looking for excuses to see who is still engaged and can do the job. More importantly you have to test your State Reps. Sadly, to say I imagine some of them have been barely heard from. All need to be given the tools to be more productive than TE. Can you imagine what TE could accomplish with a little help? Yes some may need to be replaced. But they should be at least given the chance to excel first.

State Reps. You don't need 50 paid employees to keep an eye out for State legislation that might hurt us, that is a red herring. But you do need to train State Reps how to spot opportunities. Don Signore from Chicago is a prefect example. The PPA posted on its website his news story, but no one tried to get him or the bar league in question on the phone. I tracked down the league, as I had the nexus of a number of news stories posted on the PPA site, just to see if this activity was being done. I spoke to Don and John to see if we could get Don to the fly-in and make sure John had the Chicago paper's DC stringers to follow up on this "Mr Smith Goes to Washington" story. I even had to introduce Don to the Trib stringer.

It doesn't take much to get this ball rolling. With the proper motivation and a little campaign trash you'd would be amazed what your "average" person can do in politics. I know as there are people who have come up to me years later who got involved in an effort I was helping and told me they were amazed at what they accomplished. I am gratified to say some have become from raw political neophytes volunteers to campaign managers and very strong grassroots organizers.

As I've said there are two kinds of grassroots organizers the expensive and the ones who had to learn to "live off the land." We all want to be the well paid ones, but not all know how to get the most out of every buck they are given. Most of the time I've ended up having to raise the seed money for the ideas that ended up bringing in more then the initial investment just to prove the worth of my ideas, that approach sucks, but you often have to do it. There were people here willing to pay for the DC chips out of their own pocket just to make it happen. Why? Because someone asked them to step up.

It can be done. It takes hard work, but most of all a true sense of understanding the "care and feeding" of your volunteers. Volunteers are a strange group. They will follow you through hell, like hanging 100,000 door hangers in less than 3 days in the cold fall rain, knowing that because of the rain 3/4 of the people didn't show up, if you treat them right. In that, little adventure, there were people who showed up for a single 2 hour commitment and worked 10 or more hours all three days. I'm still very proud of that crew. But you misuse a volunteer core and that campaign HQ can get damn empty in a hurry.

IMO a concrete action that is seen as worthwhile and a spirit of having fun doing it are the keys. Figuring out creative rewards that don't cost a dime is the art.

Grassroots is not a job, it really is a religion.

D$D

[/ QUOTE ]

Seriously, D$D, I thought you were going to work on distilling your points. I can't even read your posts like this and I know I'm not alone.

[sobefuddled]

Well...a response to my e-mail regarding potential talk show guests for Dan Rea's show would be nice Randy. Even an acknowledgement that you received the e-mail would be nice. I work full-tme at a rather demanding job. I don't mind taking an hour or so a day out to help with your cause but an acknowledgement that you received some information would be nice given that the information was state-specific. It took me time to write the e-mail that generated Mr. Rea's invitation. Even an auto-reply would be preferable to no reply at all. If you had time to make this post you had time to reply to someone who is attempting to help you further your cause.

[DeadMoneyDad]

[ QUOTE ]
Well...a response to my e-mail regarding potential talk show guests for Dan Rea's show would be nice Randy. Even an acknowledgement that you received the e-mail would be nice. I work full-tme at a rather demanding job. I don't mind taking an hour or so a day out to help with your cause but an acknowledgement that you received some information would be nice given that the information was state-specific. It took me time to write the e-mail that generated Mr. Rea's invitation. Even an auto-reply would be preferable to no reply at all. If you had time to make this post you had time to reply to someone who is attempting to help you further your cause.

[/ QUOTE ]

I suggest you, Randy, and the other in or near MA get together and start deligating tasks among yourselves. Share alternative communication methods so the main MassPPA box doesn't over filled.

One of the worst things you can do with volunteers is not put them to work when they are ready to help. They simply loose their steam and go away. This is a cardnial sin in grassroots organizations.

MassPoker you need to solve this problem, NOW.


D$D

[TheEngineer]

[ QUOTE ]
Well...a response to my e-mail regarding potential talk show guests for Dan Rea's show would be nice Randy. Even an acknowledgement that you received the e-mail would be nice. I work full-tme at a rather demanding job. I don't mind taking an hour or so a day out to help with your cause but an acknowledgement that you received some information would be nice given that the information was state-specific. It took me time to write the e-mail that generated Mr. Rea's invitation. Even an auto-reply would be preferable to no reply at all. If you had time to make this post you had time to reply to someone who is attempting to help you further your cause.

[/ QUOTE ]

It could have either not been delivered or been deleted by his spam filter. Why not send it once more or PM him?

[DeadMoneyDad]

[ QUOTE ]

Seriously, D$D, I thought you were going to work on distilling your points. I can't even read your posts like this and I know I'm not alone.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well I was asked specifically what I would do differently so I explained it in some detail.

Here is the Cliff Notes version.

The PPA is good. But not good enough. We claim to be a grassroots organization but at best we have great lobbyists and a good PR machine.

Even the 800,000 number is weak and untested. The vast majority haven't donaited and many don't even remember they signed up.

We have a political equlivant of a "Perfect Storm" of issues, timing, and numbers to be MUCH better.

IMO we can and should plan on a less than 2 to 5 year strategy to achieve the goals we all want. It is doable, but waiting much longer is a looser. We have a short window to get ready to make a major impact in '08 and reap the rewards in the election off year and legislative session of '09. If we make the effort I think we should we could achieve much more than is currently on the table.

I have done this type of work in the past. It is not hard, in fact very simple and often mundaine. The art is keeping people motivated to keep doing the hard mindless work.

Effective grassroots efforts cost a little to get going but can be even profitible. Their real value however is the multiplication factor to your lobbing efforts.

I used specific examples of suggestions I have made that for whatever reason were not followed. They are mid to late in the post with single word headers; Bumper stickers, Poker Chips, Fundraising, Organization, KY, Motivation, Testing, and State Reps. There were a couple of other where I failed to follow this convention.

Some who managed to wade through the whole thing thought it worthwhile.

Best I can do,

D$D

[sobefuddled]

Actually I did PM him from this site asking him to let me know whether or not he received the e-mail. Since I copied Bryan on the e-mail Bryan responded saying he was forwarding the e-mail to Randy because "Randy is our MA representative." Bryan apparently didn't look at the header. I have not heard from Randy.
D$D made my point beautifully. I have a personal vested interest in getting this proposed MA legislation changed and the public educated about poker. My son is toying with the idea of moving back to MA. He is a pro player. Those of you who follow extremely high stakes on line limit know who he is.

[TheEngineer]

[ QUOTE ]
Actually I did PM him from this site asking him to let me know whether or not he received the e-mail. Since I copied Bryan on the e-mail Bryan responded saying he was forwarding the e-mail to Randy because "Randy is our MA representative." Bryan apparently didn't look at the header. I have not heard from Randy.
D$D made my point beautifully. I have a personal vested interest in getting this proposed MA legislation changed and the public educated about poker. My son is toying with the idea of moving back to MA. He is a pro player. Those of you who follow extremely high stakes on line limit know who he is.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks for taking that extra step to ensure he received your email. Also, thanks for offering to help. I hope Randy will contact you soon.

[DeadMoneyDad]

[ QUOTE ]

It could have either not been delivered or been deleted by his spam filter. Why not send it once more or PM him?

[/ QUOTE ]

TE, your desire to get the job done not matter what the obsticales is very admirable. But the PPA has long suffered the structural problem of bi-directional communications involving suggestions and offers of help. Given all the work even on Brayn's new plate this will not improve IMO.

Right now every campaign in the country, every other grassroots group is out planning and rounding up people potentially motivated for this cycle. As far as I know we barely have a plan. We have not shown "the money" that we are worth their commitment to a major effort.

Getting people to get off their butts and freely give their time is harder than getting money from them. It is also many times more valuable. Getting money is the easy part, trust me.

The amount of untapped talent in this forum alone is testiment to that.

Grassroots for a group is hard enough. Converting an on-line community to live action is even harder in political grassroots work.

I'll give you an example. A campaign I was involved in, only late in the process, had a great candidate in a good State. This was a State I had previous long term experience in the previous cycle. They announced and had a nice gathering for the offical opening of the campaign HQ's opening.

But they did not have a single concret volunteer activity for all the people that showed up ready to work. They had a very poor message for those with past volunteer experience; "leave us your name and contact info and we'll get back to you."

I came in for the last 5 weeks. The campaign was still stuck in first gear. I spent 3 weeks offering suggestions and doing what I was asked to do, drive around and stick yard signs in the ground.

10 days before the election they realized they were in major trouble. Thankfully the RNC had sent in about 12 "72-Hour Marshals" any of whom could have lead the effort, but since I had been their the longest and had the most recent past campaing experience in the State I was tapped to lead the effort. We accomplished through very hard work in a little less than 9 days what could have been done very easily in just the previous 5 weeks let alone the 3 months prior. We just eeked out a victory, and the Republicans just barely regained the Senate.

This experience is partly what has driven me nuts with the pace of change in the grassroots efforts of the PPA.

When I spoke to many of the people I had trained in the previous cycle and asked what happened, the full impact of the mistake of not "striking while the iron is hot", is a lesson I'll never forget. Many top tier volunteers went off and got involved in other campaigns. That State wide effort came very close to failing for the simple reason that the campaign didn't understand the "care and feeding" of its most valuable resource.

In campaings you can always get more money, you can even over come past mistakes, you can even elect fools, but you can never trun the clock back and get a single wasted minute back no matter what you do.




D$D

[TheEngineer]

That may be the largest (number of words in response)/(number of words in OP) in the history of this forum. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

In all seriousness, I've found Randy to be very responsive with me. His email address is a yahoo.com one, so it was entirely plausible that the email in question didn't make it to Randy, so I merely asked a question to help get the info to him. He clarified that he sent a PM to Randy as well, so the ball is now in Randy's court.

[DeadMoneyDad]

[ QUOTE ]
That may be the largest (number of words in response)/(number of words in OP) in the history of this forum. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

In all seriousness, I've found Randy to be very responsive with me. His email address is a yahoo.com one, so it was entirely plausible that the email in question didn't make it to Randy, so I merely asked a question to help get the info to him. He clarified that he sent a PM to Randy as well, so the ball is now in Randy's court.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well I simply tried to make the point that even now with Brayn's addition to the team, we are still way behind the curve. The PPA is doing a very good job in selecting its people but they then immediately over task them.

The basic structural problems will continue to exist and we potentially suffer from addition problems by spreading "ourselves" too thin. Burn-out and continued missed opportunities are inevitable.


D$D

[TheEngineer]

[ QUOTE ]
In campaings you can always get more money, you can even over come past mistakes, you can even elect fools, but you can never trun the clock back and get a single wasted minute back no matter what you do.

[/ QUOTE ]

You're right; we cannot waste a moment. PPA has many areas on which to potentially focus. You wanted them to commit to a huge grassroots effort. You have some good ideas; no one disputes that. Still, time is of the essense. They listened to you and your proposals and made a strategic decision to put the primary near-term focus on legislative efforts while doing some work at the grassroots level. If they try to mobilize a huge grassroots effort right this second, they'll have to take their eyes off the legislative effort to manage it, right at the time when they need the focus there.

This is our moment to act legislatively. We can get bumper stickers on cars in a few months. Right now, Rep. Conyers has cosponsored Wexler's bill and has a hearing next Wed. Other things are occurring as well. You make it sound like they aren't following your suggestions because they aren't smart enough to. I don't believe that's the case.

[sobefuddled]

It doesn't have to be one or the other. A grass roots effort is just that. Delegate some of the grunt work to volunteers like me. Never, never forget that every great movement in history began at the grass roots level. Where would we be today if Thomas Jefferson and Ben Franklin focussed their lobbying efforts on Parliament alone?
Alice

[DeadMoneyDad]

[ QUOTE ]
You make it sound like they aren't following your suggestions because they aren't smart enough to. I don't believe that's the case.

[/ QUOTE ]

Please, I want no one to think I in any way doubt the intellegence, commitment, dedication, nor hard work that has been done to date by everyone even remotely involved.

I have spoken to quite a few of the decision makers in this process. I fully understand the issues involved. Near as I can tell it really comes down to an issue of budgets of both money and time.

Bumper-stickers on cars, isn't the goal, it is having the ability to get them on the right cars driven by people who have committed to getting them on a hundred more, who then will show up and write the letters, volunteer on the strategicly chosen campaigns to move the votes nessecary from the uncommitted to get an even better bill out of the hearing stages. By sheer political force if nessecary.

We also need to be ready to fight the State battles for any State that even thinks of opting out. We can even as a political force keep those decisions from ever come to the floor of those State Houses because we are THE PPA!

Top tier political professionals know the timetables, they are making their plans now. People like this are making commitments for '08 NOW. I'm not even close to being Karl Rove but I've gotten calls, so someone(s) must really be scraping the bottom of the barrel........

Strategically we either continue to play defense or attempt to go on the offense. Perhaps it really does come down to the belief from all those intellegent people that the on-line poker community will never come out from behind their screens.

I don't beleive that.


D$D

[TheEngineer]

[ QUOTE ]
It doesn't have to be one or the other. A grass roots effort is just that. Delegate some of the grunt work to volunteers like me. Never, never forget that every great movement in history began at the grass roots level. Where would we be today if Thomas Jefferson and Ben Franklin focussed their lobbying efforts on Parliament alone?
Alice

[/ QUOTE ]

Absolutely. They are doing both. I've certainly let them know I want them to be active on the grassroots, and they've progressed strongly in that area, IMO. My point was that there's a point where doing one thing distracts from the other thing. John Pappas just got on a few months ago and Bryan just hired on a few weeks ago. They are currently moving from San Francisco to D.C. As their grassroots efforts and their member outreach prior to this were [censored], there is a huge ramp-up required. If they try to do too much at once, it will crash and burn...badly. D$D said himself that they're doing as much they can, to the point of seeming overwhelmed.

Let's let them complete the move to D.C., get John Pappas fully situated, and get the legislative goals done while we can (after all, we're done there if the GOP gets a chamber in '08). This is not the prior PPA administration -- these guys are proactive. Grassroots will ramp up at the appropriate time, which will be soon.

Also, to be clear, I don't mean "grassroots" to be the same as "member services". Bryan is on board and is fully engaged to address this.

[sobefuddled]

Really? Bryan passes you back to Randy. I'm a paid member. I needed a name of someone capable of speaking about the legislation out there at both the local and national levels to pass on to a reputable and popular Boston Talk show Host. I need to answer the man. What do I say? Well, there's the PPA. If you contact them maybe someone will help you? If they aren't too busy moving their offices....

[TheEngineer]

[ QUOTE ]
Really? Bryan passes you back to Randy. I'm a paid member. I needed a name of someone capable of speaking about the legislation out there at both the local and national levels to pass on to a reputable and popular Boston Talk show Host. I need to answer the man. What do I say? Well, there's the PPA. If you contact them maybe someone will help you? If they aren't too busy moving their offices....

[/ QUOTE ]

I think you're taking me way out of context. I was addressing doing all D$D mentioned right now. Your issue is different. PPA agreed to do the effort in Mass. Bryan didn't pass anyone back to Randy...he was sending it where it belonged. He was not aware that it there was an unanswered email out there. Randy owes a response.

[DeadMoneyDad]

[ QUOTE ]

They are doing both. I've certainly let them know I want them to be active on the grassroots, and they've progressed strongly in that area, IMO. My point was that there's a point where doing one thing distracts from the other thing. John Pappas just got on a few months ago and Bryan just hired on a few weeks ago. They are currently moving from San Francisco to D.C. As their grassroots efforts and their member outreach prior to this were [censored], there is a huge ramp-up required. If they try to do too much at once, it will crash and burn...badly. D$D said himself that they're doing as much they can, to the point of seeming overwhelmed.

[/ QUOTE ]

I am not trying to pick a fight and this maybe my last post on this subject. (I can hear the cheers already! /images/graemlins/grin.gif)

But NO.

On Sept 2, the PPA posted the job of grassroots director. John said the plan was to hire this person with-in three weeks. He also explained all the other things he had to do in that same time frame. I knew then at least 1/2 were not going to get the attention they truly deserved.

I looked at the situation and offered to do anything to help, even opening sorting resumes and sceheduling interviews, on even a volunteer basis. This lead to the infamous "pulling a Chenney running the selection process and picking yourself" joke.

His plate was and is overflowing, as is Brayn's. Even the plans for the delayed hiring are likely off by a factor of at least twice the need. I know the PPA isn't some over funded gold plated organization with mahogony board rooms, run by people taking 3 hour martini lunches. I've sat in John's office. I also have a good idea of the office he traded in for the one he has. John is Aces with me.

[ QUOTE ]
Let's let them complete the move to D.C., get John Pappas fully situated, and get the legislative goals done while we can (after all, we're done there if the GOP gets a chamber in '08). This is not the prior PPA administration -- these guys are proactive. Grassroots will ramp up at the appropriate time, which will be soon.

Also, to be clear, I don't mean "grassroots" to be the same as "member services". Bryan is on board and is fully engaged to address this.

[/ QUOTE ]

Lets be honest even the proposed position is really two jobs, and the pay being offered is less than nessecary to fill one of them properly.

The job as outlined is basically to run a world class grassroots to built from scratch in 1/2 the time normally required on a budget that requires that person to not only do it on a shoe string budget, but raise enough money to not only pay for anything they need but to be a major profit center paying not only for themselves but a couple of other future positions in next years budget.

Every minute that gets delayed makes that job harder and not only puts that person behind the curve it puts the ability for the organization to go from defense and catch up to playing offense.

Nothing major is going to happen between Thanksgiving and the New Year so you are looking at January 7th realistically.

I'm done beating my head on the keyboard.

I'm going to go play poker....


D$D

[TheEngineer]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

They are doing both. I've certainly let them know I want them to be active on the grassroots, and they've progressed strongly in that area, IMO. My point was that there's a point where doing one thing distracts from the other thing. John Pappas just got on a few months ago and Bryan just hired on a few weeks ago. They are currently moving from San Francisco to D.C. As their grassroots efforts and their member outreach prior to this were [censored], there is a huge ramp-up required. If they try to do too much at once, it will crash and burn...badly. D$D said himself that they're doing as much they can, to the point of seeming overwhelmed.

[/ QUOTE ]

I am not trying to pick a fight and this maybe my last post on this subject. (I can hear the cheers already! /images/graemlins/grin.gif)

But NO.

On Sept 2, the PPA posted the job of grassroots director. John said the plan was to hire this person with-in three weeks. He also explained all the other things he had to do in that same time frame. I knew then at least 1/2 were not going to get the attention they truly deserved.

I looked at the situation and offered to do anything to help, even opening sorting resumes and sceheduling interviews, on even a volunteer basis. This lead to the infamous "pulling a Chenney running the selection process and picking yourself" joke.

His plate was and is overflowing, as is Brayn's. Even the plans for the delayed hiring are likely off by a factor of at least twice the need. I know the PPA isn't some over funded gold plated organization with mahogony board rooms, run by people taking 3 hour martini lunches. I've sat in John's office. I also have a good idea of the office he traded in for the one he has. John is Aces with me.

[ QUOTE ]
Let's let them complete the move to D.C., get John Pappas fully situated, and get the legislative goals done while we can (after all, we're done there if the GOP gets a chamber in '08). This is not the prior PPA administration -- these guys are proactive. Grassroots will ramp up at the appropriate time, which will be soon.

Also, to be clear, I don't mean "grassroots" to be the same as "member services". Bryan is on board and is fully engaged to address this.

[/ QUOTE ]

Lets be honest even the proposed position is really two jobs, and the pay being offered is less than nessecary to fill one of them properly.

The job as outlined is basically to run a world class grassroots to built from scratch in 1/2 the time normally required on a budget that requires that person to not only do it on a shoe string budget, but raise enough money to not only pay for anything they need but to be a major profit center paying not only for themselves but a couple of other future positions in next years budget.

Every minute that gets delayed makes that job harder and not only puts that person behind the curve it puts the ability for the organization to go from defense and catch up to playing offense.

Nothing major is going to happen between Thanksgiving and the New Year so you are looking at January 7th realistically.

I'm done beating my head on the keyboard.

I'm going to go play poker....


D$D

[/ QUOTE ]

You didn't disagree with anything I wrote. PPA will fill the Grassroots Director position at the appropriate time with the appropriate candidate.

[sobefuddled]

I copied Bryan in a post directed to Randy. It was a courtesy because it involved a PR request. It went to the person it BELONGED to in the first place. He has yet to respond. Engineer I hear you defending an organization that needs change. FAST. D$D is right on the button with his criticism. Everything that needs to be done can be done with the resources at hand. There is "perfect" and there is "the best that is possible right now." Using volunteers wisely falls in the latter category. That is not happening.

[DeadMoneyDad]

[ QUOTE ]

You didn't disagree with anything I wrote. PPA will fill the Grassroots Director position at the appropriate time with the appropriate candidate.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hardly.


D$D

[TheEngineer]

[ QUOTE ]
I copied Bryan in a post directed to Randy. It was a courtesy because it involved a PR request. It went to the person it BELONGED to in the first place. He has yet to respond. Engineer I hear you defending an organization that needs change. FAST. D$D is right on the button with his criticism. Everything that needs to be done can be done with the resources at hand. There is "perfect" and there is "the best that is possible right now." Using volunteers wisely falls in the latter category. That is not happening.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not defending them. I'm sharing with you the thought process behind the decisions that have been made. Did you tell Bryan you were not being responded to in a timely manner? If so, forwarding would not have been appropriate. If not, it was, I guess.

I just sent Randy an email as well, asking him to reply to you.

[sobefuddled]

The e-mail was sent to both Randy and Brian on Wednesday morning at 9:05 AM. That means that Randy received the e-mail from me, and from Bryan probably at 2 different e-mail addresses. Randy also received a request from me at this site to let me know whether or not he received my e-mail so that I could resend it to him from a second e-mail address if necessary.
No Response.
That is a very basic problem. I'm glad I copied Bryan. At least I know for a fact that Randy must have received the e-mail.

[adanthar]

seriously, this whole thread strikes me as a giant game of shoot the messenger.

I probably don't agree with any of you politically, but what DMD is saying strikes me as inherently correct.

[TheEngineer]

[ QUOTE ]
The e-mail was sent to both Randy and Brian on Wednesday morning at 9:05 AM. That means that Randy received the e-mail from me, and from Bryan probably at 2 different e-mail addresses. Randy also received a request from me at this site to let me know whether or not he received my e-mail so that I could resend it to him from a second e-mail address if necessary.
No Response.
That is a very basic problem. I'm glad I copied Bryan. At least I know for a fact that Randy must have received the e-mail.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks for the clarification, and I'm sorry you didn't get a reply in a timely manner.

However, I'm not sure the failure of an unpaid PPA volunteer to reply to your email in a timely manner means the PPA must immediately restructure. After all, it's not like you told Bryan you hadn't received a reply and that you needed action. Now that I know, I'll mention it to John Pappas at our 2 pm phone call and we'll see what can be done. I do appreciate your offer to help.

[TheEngineer]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

You didn't disagree with anything I wrote. PPA will fill the Grassroots Director position at the appropriate time with the appropriate candidate.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hardly.


D$D

[/ QUOTE ]

Apparently they disagree.

[sobefuddled]

I was not aware that Randy was unpaid. What is his job exactly?

[TheEngineer]

[ QUOTE ]
I was not aware that Randy was unpaid. What is his job exactly?

[/ QUOTE ]

He's volunteering to help us with the Mass effort because he lives there and he cares about the issue. He is PPA MA State Director. All the state reps are unpaid volunteers (including me, by the way).

PPA doesn't have many full-time employees. Sometimes people envision an organization with hundreds of employees, so they expect services accordingly. It's nothing like that at all.

[sobefuddled]

That doesn't really tell me what his job is....I'm vice president of a company and primary partner but that doesn't tell you what my job is....

[TheEngineer]

[ QUOTE ]
That doesn't really tell me what his job is....I'm vice president of a company and primary partner but that doesn't tell you what my job is....

[/ QUOTE ]

The job description is probably somewhere on the PPA website.

[Skallagrim]

Um, at the risk of revealing something someone may not want completely public, did it ever occur to anyone that an unpaid volunteer may have other commitments and issues that prevent him from being ABLE to respond on a moments notice?

I also am an unpaid PPA volunteer (NH rep) - things are pretty quiet poker-wise in NH, so that doesn't take much (I write letters to representatives is about it for now). But I also am known from these boards and others as an attorney particularly familiar with poker issues. People ask me for help fairly often. I do my best to get back to them quickly. But if I have a major task at the job that pays my bills, or am feeling sick, or even just feel like I need some down time, my volunteer activities wait. I dont see anything wrong with that.

Patience, please - this aint a McDonalds.

Skallagrim

[TheEngineer]

[ QUOTE ]
The e-mail was sent to both Randy and Brian on Wednesday morning at 9:05 AM. That means that Randy received the e-mail from me, and from Bryan probably at 2 different e-mail addresses. Randy also received a request from me at this site to let me know whether or not he received my e-mail so that I could resend it to him from a second e-mail address if necessary.
No Response.
That is a very basic problem. I'm glad I copied Bryan. At least I know for a fact that Randy must have received the e-mail.

[/ QUOTE ]

I discussed it with John Pappas and sent him (and Bryan) a copy of the email. Thanks again for working on this for us.

[sobefuddled]

Thank you engineer! My problem has been resolved. I can respond appropriately within an appropriate time frame and PPA has come through. I think we are going to be fine here in MA wth their help. I needed to post this because I was certainly vocal enough in my criticism. Just persevere. Sometimes things get lost in the crunch.

[TheEngineer]

[ QUOTE ]
Thank you engineer! My problem has been resolved. I can respond appropriately within an appropriate time frame and PPA has come through. I think we are going to be fine here in MA wth their help. I needed to post this because I was certainly vocal enough in my criticism. Just persevere. Sometimes things get lost in the crunch.

[/ QUOTE ]

Glad to help. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[TheEngineer]

[ QUOTE ]
The PPA didn't step up for the cool UIGEA poker chips, which pisses me off. That was a huge bang for the buck effort.

[/ QUOTE ]

That was a neat idea.

PPA didn't blow you off. Rather, they didn't go with it because it was perceived to be a negative following Bob Ney's indictment for accepting (real) poker chips. Pappas told me he asked you to contact him about it, but for some reason you both were unable to connect.

I can PM you with more info if you want.

[DeadMoneyDad]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The PPA didn't step up for the cool UIGEA poker chips, which pisses me off. That was a huge bang for the buck effort.

[/ QUOTE ]

That was a neat idea.

PPA didn't blow you off. Rather, they didn't go with it because it was perceived to be a negative following Bob Ney's indictment for accepting (real) poker chips. Pappas told me he asked you to contact him about it, but for some reason you both were unable to connect.

I can PM you with more info if you want.

[/ QUOTE ]

The idea had progressed quite a bit beyond the initial concern based on John's own suggestion sometime before this came up in this iteration, John called his the Million Chip March and involved sending poker chips to the Hill. That was nixed because of the Ney mess.

Through Grasshopp3r I was able to get in contact with a chip maker who was willing to work at or near cost on as many chips as we wanted.

Knowing that John had budget concerns, and a desire at one point to hold a game for all who attended the event, I boradened the discussion to include PPA chips for the event which could have then been sold at a nice profit.

Considering even just the regualar wholesale to retail mark-up let alone the value of adding a set of autographs or even a picture of the pros and the buyers of the sets from the people at the fly-in I know there was a nice profit for the PPA with extra unused sets left over.

John given all he does on a regualr basis was just too busy to even fully discuss the idea. In the end the person responsible for just regular chips for the Pros and Hill people failed.

Comparing the two outcomes vs the volunteer effort to get the initial idea to what it really was is something that still pains me.

The chips were beautiful, I would have bought at least two sets myself at a preium to their even retail value.

Yeah chips were found and the event a sucess, but....



D$D

[DeadMoneyDad]

[ QUOTE ]
I'd especially love a PPA coffee mug to show off at work.


[/ QUOTE ]

Since you asked.

If I can get permission and if there is interest, I looked into it. I priced similar Starbucks $8.95 and regular supermarket unprinted coffee cups $5.25.

15 oz White Ceramic cups. PPA logo in 3 or 4 color one side, "Keep it Legal" and the URL on the other.

Gift boxed and ready before Christmas.

Individual $8.95 plus a buck or two for shipping call it $10.00 delivered to you anywhere in the US.

A dozen or more $6.25 per, again individually gift boxed and shipped together.

All moneys to go directly to the PPA grassroots efforts.


Mock-up pictures Monday.


D$D

[IndyFish]

If you do indeed get permission I will buy one for each coffee drinking member on my Christmas list, regardless of whether or not they play poker.

I like the bumper sticker idea, but I think the coffee mugs would be even better. Someone who sees the logo on the mug is far more likely to start a conversation about it. ("What the hell is the PPA???") It's a double benefit for the PPA: the price of the cup plus the publicity that goes with it. Plus it lets us get the message out without seeming to beat people over the head with it. ("Since you asked, let me explain a little something about the UIGEA...").

Thanks for the effort, D$D. I think you're right on the money with your posts in this thread, although I understand TE's side too (too much too soon with an already heaping workload). The PPA is making great strides lately, but I really hope to see some of these ideas come to fruition in the near future.

IndyFish

[DeadMoneyDad]

[ QUOTE ]
If you do indeed get permission I will buy one for each coffee drinking member on my Christmas list, regardless of whether or not they play poker.

I like the bumper sticker idea, but I think the coffee mugs would be even better.

[/ QUOTE ]

I got permission for the bumper stickers the PPA has something like 10k of them or did at one point. I don't know how many are on cars. There is one on mine.

How many people on your list?


D$D

[IndyFish]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
If you do indeed get permission I will buy one for each coffee drinking member on my Christmas list, regardless of whether or not they play poker.

I like the bumper sticker idea, but I think the coffee mugs would be even better.

[/ QUOTE ]

I got permission for the bumper stickers the PPA has something like 10k of them or did at one point. I don't know how many are on cars. There is one on mine.

How many people on your list?


D$D

[/ QUOTE ]

Not a lot, unfortunately (black sheep and all). 6 - 10 off the top of my head. Didn't see the bumper stickers on the PPA website. Any idea where I can get one?

IndyFish

[DeadMoneyDad]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
If you do indeed get permission I will buy one for each coffee drinking member on my Christmas list, regardless of whether or not they play poker.

I like the bumper sticker idea, but I think the coffee mugs would be even better.

[/ QUOTE ]

I got permission for the bumper stickers the PPA has something like 10k of them or did at one point. I don't know how many are on cars. There is one on mine.

How many people on your list?


D$D

[/ QUOTE ]

Not a lot, unfortunately (black sheep and all). 6 - 10 off the top of my head. Didn't see the bumper stickers on the PPA website. Any idea where I can get one?

IndyFish

[/ QUOTE ]

Give Bryan a call Monday. As the PPA owns them.

I have a few extra from the DC Fly-in around here some where if Bryan is unable to help.


D$D