Is This True? Why or Why not?

[Splendour]

I just read an article. It said that smart people can have poorer social skills. This was news to me. Are there reasons besides the one documented in this article that such would be the case? What is Asperger's Syndrome?

http://ezinearticles.com/?Why-Smart-People-Sometimes-Have-Poor-Social-Skills&id=642758

[tame_deuces]

The article is very 'light' so I wouldn't take it too seriously.

Asperger's syndrome easily explained is best understood as a light version of autism.

Unlike many other autists they don't have verbal language problems and they don't have any impairments to the thinking process, but they often communicate worse when using other stuff than language and may have less motor control.

[kurto]

[ QUOTE ]
I just read an article. It said that smart people can have poorer social skills. This was news to me. Are there reasons besides the one documented in this article that such would be the case? What is Asperger's Syndrome?

http://ezinearticles.com/?Why-Smart-People-Sometimes-Have-Poor-Social-Skills&id=642758

[/ QUOTE ]

Though there are some good points, it is a very light article... it seems more like an advert.

[madnak]

I'm a pretty classic "smart person with poor social skills," so I think I'm qualified to answer. I don't think smart people actually tend to have poor social skills, but when a person's social development is slower than their mental development the gap can be noticeable. This problem is exacerbated because there is often a strong expectation of heightened maturity and social savvy in smart kids and because those kids may have different interests from their peers.

I think the problem is at its worst during adolescence. "Fitting in" is very important during the teenage years, and the effects of poor socialization in early childhood will often become most apparent at this time. Most of us do finally "figure it out" in our twenties - some people even develop exceptional social skills in adulthood despite a childhood of social ineptitude.

[David Sklansky]

Its true regarding the smartest one percent or so. With plenty of exceptions. One reason is that these people are often too immersed in thought to notice they are being anti social. Another reason is my theory that many social conventions which are unthinkingly adopted by most people seem ridiculous to smart people (eg saying "bless you" after someone sneezes) so they have to force themselves to do something that is mildly uncomfortable to them.

[LuckOfTheDraw]

[ QUOTE ]
Another reason is my theory that many social conventions which are unthinkingly adopted by most people seem ridiculous to smart people (eg saying "bless you" after someone sneezes) so they have to force themselves to do something that is mildly uncomfortable to them.


[/ QUOTE ]

Clearly, super smart people will view many things differently and have a difficult time connecting with people of average intelligence, but I don't think that (saying "bless you") is a very good example.

[mbillie1]

People on this board who think they're smart but not smooth with the ladies != asperger's syndrome. Asperger's is the absence of the ability to recognize social cues, not just being the loser in high school etc. Instead of saying something awkward and being laughed at and feeling like an idiot, the asperger's kid says something awkward, gets laughed at and doesn't feel anything, he's just somewhat confused why everyone's laughing. He can't put it together. Some people with asperger's can be very intelligent, others not so much, others with hordes of other psychiatric problems, etc, like any other group really. It's a different sort of thing from the "uncool genius" high-school-personality-complex though.

[Subfallen]

This was covered extensively in the now defunct Special Sklansky Forum (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=9520142&page=0&fpart=all &vc=1).

[yukoncpa]

[ QUOTE ]
I just read an article. It said that smart people can have poorer social skills. This was news to me. Are there reasons besides the one documented in this article that such would be the case? What is Asperger's Syndrome?

http://ezinearticles.com/?Why-Smart-People-Sometimes-Have-Poor-Social-Skills&id=642758



[/ QUOTE ]

This is a great post for me to tell a story about how my genius brother figured out how to read at the age of four without any help from anyone ( other then my mom who taught him how to tell time and read time ). When we were kids, my brother and I liked to watch certain programs such as Star Trek. Only my dad, coming home from work, would grab the little pamphlet that he called the TV guide and explain to us, that woopsy - daisy boys, Star Trek isn’t on tonight, we’ll have to watch ( fill in the blank whatever my dad wanted to watch ).

My brother called BS on my dad and when my dad was in the kitchen or bathroom, my brother would switch stations and sure enough, Star Trek was on. It was then that my brother asked my mom how to tell and read time, which she explained to him. At this point, he grabbed the pamphlet called the t.v. guide and would associate patterns of letters with names of t.v. shows at various times. He did this every day, and I was completely in the dark as to why he was so interested in adult scribblings on pieces of paper. By the time my brother was in first grade, he could read any book. My parents called it a miracle of God. To hear them tell the story, my brother was born with the ability to read, but I knew better.

At any rate, throughout my growing up years, I constantly called my brother an idiot and a moron, because he was mentally unbalanced. He was given a full ride academic scholarship to BYU, but wasn’t able to graduate, simply because he can’t relate to people at all.

I now know that he suffers from schizophrenia, and I am hugely humbled at what an idiot I am for not recognizing his genius as I was growing up. My own friends recognized it and shared their stories of my brother. For example, my brother is one year younger, but he was bumped up in math to my grade. My friend said he sat behind my brother and always copied off him in tests. One day, my brother sat at his desk, so consumed with a novel, that he didn’t bother answering the test questions, so my friend filled in the questions the best he could, handed in his test, then reported, that my brother, at the last five minutes, set down his book, filled in the test, and scored a 100 percent.

As stated, I feel constantly bad at the grief and anxiety, as an older brother, that I must have caused my brother by ridiculing him for his complete lack of social skills.

[Splendour]

Lots of schizophrenics are uncommonly intelligent. One of Einstein's sons was a schizophrenic.

[wtfsvi]

We only have so much time. Kids that have no friends have more time to think by themselves, read and spend time with adults. All this probably makes them "smart".

At least that's my take on it.

[thesnowman22]

I would argue that to define intellignece as simply IQ is wrong. Tne abilty to acquire and use knowledge successfully at the highest level requires some social awareness and abiltiy to relate to people. I could give a rats azz what your IQ is, if youre unable to figure out things socially AT ALL and cant function in society, i aint giving u credit for being too damn smart.

[tame_deuces]

I agree. Knowledge and the ability to solve mental puzzles or reach far in a scientific field does not equate to smart. It equates to being skilled.

The ability to use your skills to reach your goals for yourself and your own in the best way possible, that equates to being smart.

[vhawk01]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Another reason is my theory that many social conventions which are unthinkingly adopted by most people seem ridiculous to smart people (eg saying "bless you" after someone sneezes) so they have to force themselves to do something that is mildly uncomfortable to them.


[/ QUOTE ]

Clearly, super smart people will view many things differently and have a difficult time connecting with people of average intelligence, but I don't think that (saying "bless you") is a very good example.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes it is. Most people who say bless you dont realize that they are warding off evil spirits from entering into your brain/soul at a time when you are unable to defend yourself, i.e. a sneeze. If they realized this, they would probably be embarrassed to say it. So they tell themselves "its just polite." And sure, maybe it is, but its also ludicrous. I would have a hard time saying bless you to anyone without feeling absurd and self-conscious about it.

There are lots of other things that are just like this, social conventions that make absolutely no sense and are absurd, except most people dont know why they exist in the first place. Like, say, tipping. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Splendour]

Quote: Most people who say bless you dont realize that they are warding off evil spirits from entering into your brain/soul at a time when you are unable to defend yourself, i.e. a sneeze. If they realized this, they would probably be embarrassed to say it.

Bless you is much more than that. It is an expression of concern for another person.

I guess people in former times were able to connect any concern right down to a concern for each other's soul.

[tame_deuces]

Hmm, I always thought bless you was an expression that meant you had the bubonic plague. Some wiki'ing and I see there are claims they don't know where it originates from. The horror of unsolved linguistical puzzles!

[Splendour]

Well I've heard what vhawk01 just mentioned also as the reason for saying "bless you." I think the physical basis for this spiritual saying is the fact that your heart stops or misses a beat when you sneeze.

[vhawk01]

[ QUOTE ]
Quote: Most people who say bless you dont realize that they are warding off evil spirits from entering into your brain/soul at a time when you are unable to defend yourself, i.e. a sneeze. If they realized this, they would probably be embarrassed to say it.

Bless you is much more than that. It is an expression of concern for another person.

I guess people in former times were able to connect any concern right down to a concern for each other's soul.

[/ QUOTE ]

Concern? Why? Sneezing isnt painful or really harmful, in fact its pleasurable. And most of the time it doesnt indicate any kind of sickness or disease, just some mild irritation.

In short, you are exactly what I am talking about above. You dont understand the superstitious, silly roots of saying "bless you" and so you fabricate some big thing about politeness and concern so you dont feel dumb.

[Alex-db]

I have been really awkward about saying "bless you" ever since I was a child and felt embarassed (and potentially offended) that people might think I believed a religion. For the same reason, I have never managed to naturally thank people when they say it to me. I guess people would therefore say IQ correlated with that social skill.

On a broader point, I think IQ can correlate with an appearance of less social skill in a particular case: In a large group meeting at a pub there are often 50%+ of the people there that I cannot be bothered talking too, they just seem mind numbingly lame (115 IQ graduate types with no opinions). So I end up with great rapport with the people I like, but the majority think I was distant/not engaging, or just rude. (Interestingly, I recently found out that this and other traits are now considered symptoms of ADD)

[tame_deuces]

Might I offer an alternative.

The german expression gesundheit! (hard g as in golf, e as in Evan -> GESONTHAITT!)

It means 'health!' or 'be healthy!' and it scares people. Win-win.

[Splendour]

[ QUOTE ]
This was covered extensively in the now defunct Special Sklansky Forum (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=9520142&page=0&fpart=all &vc=1).

[/ QUOTE ]

Interesting post by DS.

I excerpted this part from DS's former post:

When I was in fifth grade I was berated for wearing pants with cuffs as they were "out" that year. I will never forget how angry that made me since it was clear that there was no intrinsic reason to wear cuffs or no cuffs except for what some irrelevant person decided was in. Likewise for most of the more trivial (but highly noticed) social skills. Especially those that guys use to attract young girls. Most people just accept them and make them a habit without dissecting them in their mind. Highly intelligent math types can't do that. They recognize how silly those little rituals are whether they want to or not. Others find it easier to suspend disbelief.


The funny thing is that DS sounds like a religious leader. Christians are told not to be overly concerned about the fashion of the times. Women are told not to wear pearls, etc. It's people who insist on fashion. Each generation tries to distinguish itself from the preceding generation according to fashion and there's alot of peer pressure over it.

God says be yourself, be clean inside and out with dignity. Money is the root of all evil. If you have to keep up with the Jones then you'll focus on money. Money becomes imperative in your quest to keep up with the Joneses. "Hey Mr. Brown has a Benz in his driveway. I can beat that I'll get a Rolls." But what do you have to do to get that Rolls?

Back in the mid-60s when the hippies emerged the older generation was condemning the hippy generation for their clothing, music and hair length. It seems they forgot that George Washington wore a pony tailed wig and Lincoln sported a long beard. They had so totally bought into the clean cut conservative image as the only wholesome one, but God says he looks at the inside not the outside.

"You can't judge a book by its cover". /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

[Splendour]

Quote: Sneezing isnt painful or really harmful, in fact its pleasurable.


I have a peculiar idiosyncrasy. Whenever I sneeze I usually don't sneeze once. I usually sneeze twice right in a row. I can't say I've ever enjoyed a sneeze.

[Splendour]

quote: (Interestingly, I recently found out that this and other traits are now considered symptoms of ADD)

Who has the ADD symptom? You or the other people. I didn't follow your point.

[madnak]

[ QUOTE ]
Concern? Why? Sneezing isnt painful or really harmful, in fact its pleasurable. And most of the time it doesnt indicate any kind of sickness or disease, just some mild irritation.

[/ QUOTE ]

It can also cause awkwardness. While the ostensible purpose of "bless you" is to ward off demons, I'm sure the actual purpose has always been to defuse social tension. It acknowledges the sneeze without disrupting the conversation. So, while the specific nature of this ritual is arbitrary, it does have a reasonable basis.

[ZeeJustin]

I was always the impression that there was a correlation between intelligence and several diseases / illnesses like clinical depression, autism, and several learning disabilities.

I don't know if that's true or not, but if it is, it might imply that there is something different in the brain of intelligent people that would also lead to social disorders.

[madnak]

[ QUOTE ]
I was always the impression that there was a correlation between intelligence and several diseases / illnesses like clinical depression, autism, and several learning disabilities.

[/ QUOTE ]

I thought this too, but someone called me on it in a recent thread and I couldn't back it up. If there is such a correlation, we haven't clearly identified it.

[CrayZee]

Part of being an intelligent person is adapting to your surrounding environment.."fitting in" to varying degrees is exactly that. I guess typically this is considered "street smarts" whereas the other type is "book smarts." (Everyone knows people that are really book smart but can't get a date if their life depended on it...and the social butterflies that think the Moon is made of cheese.)

I would expect many social customs and conventions considered as trivial or arbitrary to some book-smart types. Normal people might interpret this lack of regard as rude or weird.

[mickeyg13]

I think a lot of smart people (without Asperger's Syndrome) understand what it takes to fit in, but they just don't care. The issue of street smarts vs. book smarts is a completely different issue I feel. Personally I never much understood the need to fit in...why would one want to be just like everybody else?

[CrayZee]

[ QUOTE ]
I think a lot of smart people (without Asperger's Syndrome) understand what it takes to fit in, but they just don't care. The issue of street smarts vs. book smarts is a completely different issue I feel. Personally I never much understood the need to fit in...why would one want to be just like everybody else?

[/ QUOTE ]

Ignoring individuals w/ empathy disabilities, some people seem to get much more stimulation out of social exchange. These types can even personally benefit from it...they tend to be great at sales, networking, etc.

Some people value intellectual ability more than an ability to handle people.

Most "normal people" have a good (enough) balance of the two abilities.