Florida High stakes poker and blackjack look good [Archive]

Atomic

11-06-2007, 11:11 AM

I think the 1st two responders need a little more info than what WTSP 10 serves up. The Bureau of Indian Affairs might have a big say it what happens to poker in Florida if an agreement between Florida and the Seminoles isn’t finalized soon.

If the State of Florida can't come to an agreement before Nov 15 with the Seminoles then the BIA will issue a secretarial procedure that "would limit the tribe to Las Vegas-style slots and perhaps enhanced poker gambling."

There would be no compact with the state and there would be none of the poker room hours of operation limitations that would have been in the compact agreement.

The secretarial procedure would mean no blackjack, no baccarat and no taxes or fees paid to the state from the Seminole gaming revenue.

http://www.sptimes.com/2007/11/06/Business/Feds_back_Seminole_ga.shtml

soulvamp

11-06-2007, 11:22 AM

In no way will this have a positive impact on poker here. At best, it will maintain the status quo except with drastically reduced hours at the Indian casinos.

As far as the feds stepping in, forget it. They've been threatening to do so for years, and the reality is that they would have to fight court battles for 10 or 20 years before they could do it.

Legislurker

11-06-2007, 11:26 AM

My question is why isn't the PPA involved? This situation calls out for some backscene lobbying and some organizing. If the Seminoles own their own casinos now, they may be a bit open to letting us organize some in their cardrooms. Florida is definitely a good state to be in if we have to vote against
someone in Nov 08. Not to mention numbers and money for the signing up.

TheEngineer

11-06-2007, 11:56 AM

[ QUOTE ]
My question is why isn't the PPA involved?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'll bring it to John Pappas' attention.

bigslickmark

11-07-2007, 10:47 AM

This is still a long way from happening. First, the governor can sign this but it must be ratified by the House and Senate. That will never happen and here's why:

1) All northern Florida congressmen are against it for moral reasons.
2) All pro-gambling congressmen are against it because it will hurt the Pari-mutuels due to exclusivity. Both Dennis Jones and Steve Geller (the two biggest pro-gaming Senators) have spoken out against the compact.
3) Marco Rubio (the speaker of the Florida House) has said the compact will never pass the House.
4) All of Central Florida is against the compact because Disney World does not want South Florida to have destination-based casinos that will compete with their theme parks for tourist dollars.
5) Cruise ship industry is against the compact.
6) The Florida Attroney General is against the compact.

This compact states that it if the House and Senate doen not ratify it the compact is void.

Then the US DOI will write their own rules and the state of Florida will go to court to prevent that from happening. The same thing happened in Texas and the US was blocked from issueing their own rules until the legislation weaves its way through the courts.

Everyone needs to remember that Florida is an anti-Gaming state outside of South Florida. It took 10 years to have limited poker casinos. There are too many special interest groups out there that will ensure expanded gaming in Florida is a long way away from happening.

RUFFNECK

11-07-2007, 12:19 PM

[ QUOTE ]

3) Marco Rubio (the speaker of the Florida House) has said the compact will never pass the House.

[/ QUOTE ]

Rubio is so full of it though, he makes these statements regularly then rolls over in session. He was a big opposer of PIP renewal, he talked all this BS the put in a few clauses that don't mean a whole hellva alot to PIP reform.

At the end of the day the Seminoles are going to get something in expanded gaming, its their right to get it, and everyone involved knows it. Its just how much can the squeeze out of this go around. All the need is ok'ed vegas slots and a injunction to run them during any type of tie up and they will have a endless supply of legal defense money.

soulvamp

11-07-2007, 12:23 PM

I don't think there's any question they'll get the Class III slots since the Broward parimutuels have them. But any other casino games (blackjack, etc.) is doubtful, and high-stakes poker isn't even part of the discussion.

4_2_it

11-14-2007, 04:29 PM

The compact was just finaled. Here's the poke language:

[ QUOTE ]
L. The Tribe presently conducts and shall continue to conduct poker in each
of its Facilities in compliance with provisions of Florida law, including provisions that
limit wagers and pot sizes. However, the Tribe may hold up to six (6) celebrity/charity
poker tournaments per year in each of its Facilities that are not subject to the
limitations/restrictions imposed by Florida law, provided that a minimum of seventy
percent (70%) of the Net Poker Income from each poker tournament is donated to a
charitable organization organized pursuant to Section 501(c)(3) of the Internal Revenue
Code. The maximum number of days a celebrity/charity tournament will be played is
eight (8) calendar days during the month a tournament is hosted. Any payments made to
charitable organizations pursuant to this part shall not be calculated as Net Win for
purpose of payments to the State under Part XI.

[/ QUOTE ]

Currently on front page of Tampbay.com. This link will be bad in a matter of hours. (http://www.tampabay.com/)

Atomic

11-14-2007, 04:36 PM

permalink
Deal expands gambling in Florida (http://blogs.tampabay.com/breakingnews/2007/11/gambling-deal-a.html)

Phaedrus11

11-14-2007, 07:35 PM

Anyone have a link to the final draft.
If its anything like the earlier drafts we are F'ed

Atomic

11-14-2007, 10:57 PM

Compact in PDF (http://blogs.tampabay.com/buzz/files/11.14.07%20Final%20Compact%20and%20Exhibit%20A.pdf )

Davie Nick

11-14-2007, 11:48 PM

So if I am reading this correctly, the buy in limits have not increased. It is still $100. True???

Phaedrus11

11-15-2007, 04:40 AM

The Tribe presently conducts and shall continue to conduct poker in each of its Facilities in compliance with provisions of Florida law, including provisions that limit wagers and pot sizes.

What I understand is they will have to abide by the state laws regarding poker. I’m assuming, and two of the floorguys agreed with me, is that they will have to close for 12 hours a day. I think any new gambling is good for the game because it builds tolerance from the general public. The Class III slots came and the world didn’t come to an end. I would only hope that this asinine 100 buyin crap will come to an end. Its really driving me crazy.

bigslickmark

11-15-2007, 09:25 AM

[ QUOTE ]
The Tribe presently conducts and shall continue to conduct poker in each of its Facilities in compliance with provisions of Florida law, including provisions that limit wagers and pot sizes.

What I understand is they will have to abide by the state laws regarding poker. I’m assuming, and two of the floorguys agreed with me, is that they will have to close for 12 hours a day. I think any new gambling is good for the game because it builds tolerance from the general public. The Class III slots came and the world didn’t come to an end. I would only hope that this asinine 100 buyin crap will come to an end. Its really driving me crazy.

[/ QUOTE ]

I actually interpret this to allow 24 hour poker. An earlier draft of the compact specified that the Seminoles had to abide by provisions related to hours. This was removed in the final compact. The way I read this is that they currently conduct poker in a way that abides by Florida law as it relates to wager sizes and pot sizes but not to hours and they will continue to do so.

It's amazing to me that there are no limits to how much one can wager in slot machines, lottery tickets or pari mutuel wagering but there are limits to poker wagering. I wish the Florida legislature will pull their head out of their ass and fix this problem.

soulvamp

11-15-2007, 09:59 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The Tribe presently conducts and shall continue to conduct poker in each of its Facilities in compliance with provisions of Florida law, including provisions that limit wagers and pot sizes.

What I understand is they will have to abide by the state laws regarding poker. I’m assuming, and two of the floorguys agreed with me, is that they will have to close for 12 hours a day. I think any new gambling is good for the game because it builds tolerance from the general public. The Class III slots came and the world didn’t come to an end. I would only hope that this asinine 100 buyin crap will come to an end. Its really driving me crazy.

[/ QUOTE ]

I actually interpret this to allow 24 hour poker. An earlier draft of the compact specified that the Seminoles had to abide by provisions related to hours. This was removed in the final compact. The way I read this is that they currently conduct poker in a way that abides by Florida law as it relates to wager sizes and pot sizes but not to hours and they will continue to do so.

It's amazing to me that there are no limits to how much one can wager in slot machines, lottery tickets or pari mutuel wagering but there are limits to poker wagering. I wish the Florida legislature will pull their head out of their ass and fix this problem.

[/ QUOTE ]

Very few people see it as a problem. Of much bigger concern is trying to expand casino gambling.

ThreeBeers

11-15-2007, 03:34 PM

The Govenor contends that the legilature does not have oversight to approve or disapprove the Compact. The Compact is set to become effective on the first day of the month following the month of the Compact's approval by the Secretary of the Interior.

ThreeBeers

soulvamp

11-15-2007, 04:11 PM

[ QUOTE ]
The Govenor contends that the legilature does not have oversight to approve or disapprove the Compact. The Compact is set to become effective on the first day of the month following the month of the Compact's approval by the Secretary of the Interior.

ThreeBeers

[/ QUOTE ]

Don't hold your breath. This is going to get tangled up in court for years.

kingmack

11-15-2007, 04:13 PM

Had a friend call who played at Coconut Creek last night and he said all the pit bosses were saying 1000 max buyin 5-10 would be open within a week. I excitedly get on here to read the details but the wording of the legislation definitely makes it seem like the status quo. Now that they got their blackjack and slots there is going to be no incentive to up the poker limits. Someone please tell me I misunderstood the new leglislation.

Phaedrus11

11-15-2007, 04:25 PM

[ QUOTE ]

I actually interpret this to allow 24 hour poker. An earlier draft of the compact specified that the Seminoles had to abide by provisions related to hours. This was removed in the final compact. The way I read this is that they currently conduct poker in a way that abides by Florida law as it relates to wager sizes and pot sizes but not to hours and they will continue to do so.

It's amazing to me that there are no limits to how much one can wager in slot machines, lottery tickets or pari mutuel wagering but there are limits to poker wagering. I wish the Florida legislature will pull their head out of their ass and fix this problem.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree, I think that by removing the hour limits they will maintain the status quo. I also think that this is going to be tied up in court for years. What pisses me off is the pari-mutuels campaigning against the compact. The Seminoles took a neutral stance when they attempted to pass the Class III slots last year.

The bottom line is no one cares about poker and poker limits. No matter what the buy-in, they get the same rake, which pales in comparison to the square footage take of the Class III slots.

I still think that any increased gambling is a good thing for poker in that it will make the fight for higher limits easier in the future. My only problem is that I don’t gamble, I only play poker.

soulvamp

11-15-2007, 08:54 PM

[ QUOTE ]
The Seminoles took a neutral stance when they attempted to pass the Class III slots last year.

[/ QUOTE ]

Your memory is extremely faulty. Seminoles put a lot of money and effort into killing that referendum.

Bossman9

11-18-2007, 01:47 AM

IMHO.........I think the compact does not address the "12 Cumulative hours" issue, so they will continue with the 24 hours..........also the tribe will interpret the "However, a cardroom operator may conduct games of Texas Hold-em without a betting limit if the required player buy-in is no more than $100."
just as we would all hope they do....REQUIRED..ie: you are not required to buy in for more than $100, but you can if you want to.......

If this proves to be the case, then the parimutuals will be even more pissed and may take another look at their own interpretation of the legislation....

who knows....

the legislation is HERE (http://www.myfloridahouse.gov/Sections/Documents/loaddoc.aspx?FileName=_s0752er.html&DocumentType=B ill&BillNumber=0752&Session=2007)

Funny thing is the lottery in FL .......a bunch of people pissin away their hard earned money.......completely acceptable...lose as much as you want

Double standards....you gotta love 'em

Packard

11-18-2007, 10:57 PM

So the bottom line of all this is:

Florida poker has not changed at all yet and doesn't look like it will change soon after these new laws were passed.

soulvamp

11-20-2007, 11:46 AM

The feeding frenzy begins:

Florida House speaker asks state Supreme Court to review gambling compact (http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/local/broward/sfl-flbcompact1120sbnov20,0,6568854.story)

RUFFNECK

11-21-2007, 05:47 PM

[ QUOTE ]
The feeding frenzy begins:

Florida House speaker asks state Supreme Court to review gambling compact (http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/local/broward/sfl-flbcompact1120sbnov20,0,6568854.story)

[/ QUOTE ]

I knew the Rubio grandstanding was coming, I just thought it would happen sooner.

Atomic

11-22-2007, 11:31 AM

Rubio has been very vocal with his opposition ever since the compact negotiations started, this is just his c-bet.

Gellar is also making noise about the comapct. This is to be expected since the south Florida pari-mutuels have both Gellar and Rubio in their pockets.

Florida Attorney General Bill McCollum is also being very vocal in his oppositiion.

Geller: Crist is 'terribly misguided' on compact (http://blogs.tampabay.com/buzz/2007/11/geller-crist-is.html)

McCollum Rant (http://blogs.tampabay.com/buzz/2007/11/table-games-inv.html)