Please allow me to introduce myself

[PPABryan]

Hello 2+2 Community,



My Name is Bryan Spadaro. I would like to introduce myself to this community, and felt this would be the best area for me to begin. I just started, today no less, with the Poker Players Alliance, as the Manager of Membership Relations. A little bit about myself, I am 24 years old, and have been working here in Washington for almost 2 years now. I was formerly with the PAC of the American Medical Association, one of the largest PAC's in the country. Before moving to DC, I attended Tulane University, where poker paid my tuition and rent the last two years I was in school. I have participated in the last two WSOP's and even managed to sneak my way in and bubble a final table. I now take over membership relations here at the PPA at a very exciting time. The Fly-In last week was a rousing success, and we earned support for our position amongst key Members of Congress. The Judiciary committee has also taken a keen interest in our struggle, and this can only be seen as promising. I am really looking forward to working with our members in the future and I am very excited to have joined this fight against prohibition. Please do not hesitate to contact me at any time, member or non-member, hopefully you will become a member after talking with me, and you can reach me at bryan@pokerplayersalliance.org



Thanks, and lets work together to get poker back where it belongs, in the open and free to be played anywhere in America!!



Bryan C. Spadaro, Manager Member Relations

Poker Players Alliance

[oober]

Welcome and look foreward to your participation in upholding our right to play cards online!!!!!

[PPABryan]

Thank you very much. I am new to this forum, so bear with me as I learn to navigate it, but I can assure you I will be here regularly, sharing current information in the struggle we are involved in here in Washington and across the country!!

[Uglyowl]

Glad to have you on board here. Exciting and scary time for online poker, I am happy there is more "firepower" to let us know what is going on.

[Coy_Roy]

Welcome Bryan.

The first thing you must learn when posting on forums is that you live in The District of Columbia or DC, not Washington.

It helps clarify things and I personally don't know any DC residents that refer to themselves as living in "Washington", that term is generally reserved for those in The State of Washington.

Good luck and we're all hoping you do well in your endeavors.

[Mr Sarcastic]

.... Actually, good of you to drop in.

Can you address the assertion that Barry G made about "legalized" online poker in the US in 6 months ?

what projection, if any, do you think is realistic ?

Was the interested Judiciary Committee the Senate or House Judiciary Committee ?

Was there a different level of interest in the different bills/proposals ?

Thanks for your insight.

[IndyFish]

[ QUOTE ]
Thank you very much. I am new to this forum, so bear with me as I learn to navigate it, but I can assure you I will be here regularly, sharing current information in the struggle we are involved in here in Washington and across the country!!

[/ QUOTE ]

Good things are happening at the PPA! Congrats on the job, Bryan. Looking forward to hearing more from you.

IndyFish

[smartalecc5]

Tuff_fish TR made me excited. Go go PPA!

[cha59]

[ QUOTE ]
Tuff_fish TR made me excited. Go go PPA!

[/ QUOTE ]

Ditto!

Welcome Bryan!

[Explicit65]

[ QUOTE ]
Welcome and look foreward to your participation in upholding our right to play cards online!!!!!

[/ QUOTE ]

[davmcg]

ok I'll ask..

Are you a man of wealth and fame?

[TheEngineer]

Welcome to PPA and 2p2 Bryan. It was good meeting you at the fly-in.

I'm really pleased with the progress of our movement over the past few months, and am looking forward to working with you.

[PPABryan]

Thank you very much Mr Engineer, It was nice meeting you as well, and your dedication to this cause is pretty inspiring, I am very excited to be on board and very happy to have devoted people like you on board as well. To answer some earlier questions, no I am not a man of wealth or fame, nor am I a man of constant sorrow.

As to Barry's statement on 6 months, we are working hard here to realize this goal, and Mr Greenstein is most certainly an important part of that goal, and we will continue to fight until this situation is resolved in our favor, and the sooner it happens the better for us all.

Continuing questions, it has been taken up in the House Judiciary Committee, and there will be a hearing there next Tuesday, Nov 6th.

As to differentiating the bills that are up in the house, I think the more promising aspect is the fact that general awareness of this industry, and the size and amount of growth it has in it, has come to the forefront. The Fly-In really showed that we are organized, we are intelligent, we are motivated and we will not be going away any time soon.

Bryan

[Berge20]

Welcome

[Grasshopp3r]

Welcome.

Please fix the PPA forum and respond to the emails from members. Emails to support are bounced as undeliverable.

[JuntMonkey]

[ QUOTE ]
ok I'll ask..

Are you a man of wealth and fame?

[/ QUOTE ]

First thing I thought of as well.

[davmcg]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
ok I'll ask..

Are you a man of wealth and fame?

[/ QUOTE ]

First thing I thought of as well.

[/ QUOTE ]

oops it's actually wealth and taste (but I thought no one would notice as it's the legislation forum......)

[Eaglesfan1]

Welcome, hopefully you can be here on a regular basis, looking forward to it.

[permafrost]

Welcome Mr Spadaro. When you get a chance, would you please describe the duties of a PPA Manager of Membership Relations as you understand them?

[ewile]

Welcome. Fight the good fight!

[Mason Malmuth]

Just so you know, the official 2+2 position concerning the PPA is neutral. It will not become positive until issues with your board are improved. This means that you can post here and interact with other forum posters, but you cannot solicit memberships or ask for money in any way.

Also, so there is no confusion as to exactly who you are, we also ask that you finish each post with your name and position with the PPA.

Mason Malmuth
Owner and Publisher
Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
www.twoplustwo.com (http://www.twoplustwo.com)

[Richas]

Oh I do hope the "issues" with the board can get sorted soon. Then there may be hope that the op to remove the stick can succeed :-)

Meanwhile Bryan just make sure the PPA carries on being more effective. Most will judge the PPA by their actions - which I have to say show promise. But don't forget your name and role - after all with a name like PPABryan some people might be confused about your affiliation....WELCOME!!!!

[RotatorCff]

New forum member here ... please be gentle as this is my first post.

I had the opportunity to attend last week's PPA event and meet many of the dedicated individuals working on the noble cause of a legal, regulated, safe environment for poker in the US. I must say I was very impressed with the event and the effort that is being put forth.

As a relative newbie to many of these issues I don't know all that has gone on in the past (though it certainly seems we have a much more proactive PPA working on our behalf than in the past), and I have no idea to what the "Board Issues" refers.

Having said that I believe a strong PPA is critical to our goals as this is the organization that has the ability to mobilize the masses (voters) and this will be imperative to any legislative solution. (At this point I suppose I should divulge the fact that I am NOT a member of the PPA Board).

So, assuming we are all of the same mind that US legislative/regulatory relief is a goal ... then I hope to see the day where the PPA receives more support from this important forum and I hope that day arrives soon. Thanks.

[PPABryan]

Hi Mason,

Nice to meet you, I can assure you I have no desire to solicit memberships or money on your site. As I stated earlier, I am new here, so I don't really know what issues 2+2 may have with the PPA, but I believe my presence here will hopefully begin to deal with some of those issues, so that your stance will change from neutral to positive. Our Goal here is to protect poker in all its forms, be it at the Federal level, or in Washington State, or in the upcoming battle in Massachusetts. Hopefully we can all work together to achieve that goal.

Bryan Spadaro
Poker Players Alliance
Membership Relations, Manager

[Uglyowl]

[ QUOTE ]
As I stated earlier, I am new here, so I don't really know what issues 2+2 may have with the PPA, but I believe my presence here will hopefully begin to deal with some of those issues

[/ QUOTE ]

Those issues have been discussed in detail in the past. I would suggest you go back and read the archives (especially Mason's posts). The Engineer may be able to bring you up to date the concerns that some have with the board make-up (CardPlayer magazines' large control over the board).

[Mason Malmuth]

[ QUOTE ]
Hi Mason,

Nice to meet you,

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually, you won't be meeting me. I have refused to meet with John Pappas until these issues are cleaned up more and that refusal will apply to any officer of the PPA with the possible exception of former Senator D'Amato.

[ QUOTE ]
As I stated earlier, I am new here, so I don't really know what issues 2+2 may have with the PPA

[/ QUOTE ]

This is the sort of thing I find very frustrating. You should do your homework before you begin posting on a site like ours.

[ QUOTE ]
but I believe my presence here will hopefully begin to deal with some of those issues

[/ QUOTE ]

Based on conversations that I have had in the past with people who are far more important than you to your organization, your being here will have zero impact on these issues.

MM

[TheProdigy]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Hi Mason,

Nice to meet you,

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually, you won't be meeting me. I have refused to meet with John Pappas until these issues are cleaned up more and that refusal will apply to any officer of the PPA with the possible exception of former Senator D'Amato.

[ QUOTE ]
As I stated earlier, I am new here, so I don't really know what issues 2+2 may have with the PPA

[/ QUOTE ]

This is the sort of thing I find very frustrating. You should do your homework before you begin posting on a site like ours.

[ QUOTE ]
but I believe my presence here will hopefully begin to deal with some of those issues

[/ QUOTE ]

Based on conversations that I have had in the past with people who are far more important than you to your organization, your being here will have zero impact on these issues.

MM

[/ QUOTE ]

You are very hostile to a new person trying to be helpful only. I can see why the two parties cannot reach an agreement with an attitude like this.

Good luck PPABryan and I hope you can make a good impact here.

[Johnny McEldoo]

[ QUOTE ]
You are very hostile to a new person trying to be helpful only. I can see why the two parties cannot reach an agreement with an attitude like this.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree.

Bryan please keep in mind that the official stance of 2+2 does not necessarily reflect the views of a large portion of this community. I believe majority of the people here greatly appreciate the efforts of people like you and the PPA organization.

Please don't let things like this discourage you from what you are trying to acomplish here.

[antneye]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Hi Mason,

Nice to meet you,

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually, you won't be meeting me. I have refused to meet with John Pappas until these issues are cleaned up more and that refusal will apply to any officer of the PPA with the possible exception of former Senator D'Amato.

[ QUOTE ]
As I stated earlier, I am new here, so I don't really know what issues 2+2 may have with the PPA

[/ QUOTE ]

This is the sort of thing I find very frustrating. You should do your homework before you begin posting on a site like ours.

[ QUOTE ]
but I believe my presence here will hopefully begin to deal with some of those issues

[/ QUOTE ]

Based on conversations that I have had in the past with people who are far more important than you to your organization, your being here will have zero impact on these issues.

MM

[/ QUOTE ]

Mason,

For a world class poker mind you sure are coming off as a real jerk with this post.

Your fight with the PPA and their members does nothing to advance our interests. Even if this is how you feel, what is to be gained by your outward show of hostility?

[downrange]

Wow, can Mason post or what? Talk about non-sequiturs. I mean, GEEZ /images/graemlins/smile.gif

Welcome ppa guy.

[Coy_Roy]

[ QUOTE ]
Bryan please keep in mind that the official stance of 2+2 does not necessarily reflect the views of a large portion of this community. I believe majority of the people here greatly appreciate the efforts of people like you and the PPA organization.

[/ QUOTE ]


I believe this to be a true statement.

[OldNantucker]

Mr. Malmuth - your post does not seem to convey a "neutral" stance towards PPA.
If you refuse to speak to Mr. Pappas, how will you ever reach agreement on some of your concerns?
PPA seems to be moving in right direction with 2+2 by hiring the Engineer and by starting a friendly dialogue with forum posters. Can't you meet them half way?

[TheEngineer]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Hi Mason,

Nice to meet you,

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually, you won't be meeting me. I have refused to meet with John Pappas until these issues are cleaned up more and that refusal will apply to any officer of the PPA with the possible exception of former Senator D'Amato.

[ QUOTE ]
As I stated earlier, I am new here, so I don't really know what issues 2+2 may have with the PPA

[/ QUOTE ]

This is the sort of thing I find very frustrating. You should do your homework before you begin posting on a site like ours.

[ QUOTE ]
but I believe my presence here will hopefully begin to deal with some of those issues

[/ QUOTE ]

Based on conversations that I have had in the past with people who are far more important than you to your organization, your being here will have zero impact on these issues.

MM

[/ QUOTE ]

Mason,

Bryan joined PPA to help us with our fight. Many of us, including me, met him in D.C. and found him to be a good guy committed to the cause.

[canvasbck]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Hi Mason,

Nice to meet you,

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually, you won't be meeting me. I have refused to meet with John Pappas until these issues are cleaned up more and that refusal will apply to any officer of the PPA with the possible exception of former Senator D'Amato.

[ QUOTE ]
As I stated earlier, I am new here, so I don't really know what issues 2+2 may have with the PPA

[/ QUOTE ]

This is the sort of thing I find very frustrating. You should do your homework before you begin posting on a site like ours.

[ QUOTE ]
but I believe my presence here will hopefully begin to deal with some of those issues

[/ QUOTE ]

Based on conversations that I have had in the past with people who are far more important than you to your organization, your being here will have zero impact on these issues.

MM

[/ QUOTE ]

Mason, I am very disapointed in your attitude. I agree that the PPA has some conflicts of intrest in it's board, but Brian comes here in peace looking for common ground in our common fight and you come across as a pompas arse. I would hope that any new employee of the PPa should be welcomed here with open arms since he or she will be having direct dialog with real poker players, the same ones who purchase books from 2+2.

[DeadMoneyDad]

[ QUOTE ]
Brian comes here in peace looking for common ground in our common fight and you come across as a pompas arse. I would hope that any new employee of the PPa should be welcomed here with open arms since he or she will be having direct dialog with real poker players, the same ones who purchase books from 2+2.

[/ QUOTE ]

Be realistic and look at this issue from both sides.

The PPA comes here because their own forum is a joke. This forum and perhaps 3 or 4 others are the cheapest form of communication to the on-line poker world. Bryan comes here to better do his job.

Mason as one of the owners of this communication medium has some rights of ownership. Not all of his concerns are completely wacked out. There are some serious issues that will affect the future of on-line poker in the US that have not been addressed by the PPA. How they are addressed in future strategy will ultimately shape on-line poker for quite awhile.

Yes they should get together hold hands and sing Kumbyah for the good of all mankind. But each feel so far that the other's issues can be ignored. Or that at least is my take on it.

2+2 is a private company and has the right to choose who it serves like any other business. If 2+2 decides there are issues that require it to take a nominally netural stance in regards to the PPA, who are we to question 2+2?

Yes, my passion for fully legal and minimally regulated poker is perhaps as great as anyones who does not have a lot invested in its future. I have pledged to help the PPA to the best of my ability and for it to utilize whatever talents I have to further that goal.

But just as we have to be realistic in the political world we must be realistic in the business world of poker. Just because many of us are sick and tired of all the manuvering doesn't mean it will stop just because we wish it so.


D$D<--middle child nonsense again.

[Skallagrim]

Let me add my "Welcome" to the list PPABryan.

Let me also say please dont get too offended by MM's tone in his response to you. He always sounds that way, but then he usually ends up doing the right thing.

You will find extensive discussion in past threads about 2+2's official concerns about the PPA board. A handful of regular posters here have the same concerns.

Most of us do not, at least yet, have these concerns and are enthusiastic about the recent improvement in PPA activity. I hope you become a valuable contribution to that activity. You wont find a more intelligent discussion of the legal issues surrounding poker anywhere else on the internet than here in the 2+2 legislation forum. It why I post and read here regularly.

At some point, when we have had some success and are actually beginning to work on what legal, regulated online poker will look like, the issues relating to the membership of the PPA board, and their corresponding potential conflicts of interest, may become relevant. Until that time, I believe, as do most here, that there are far more important things to worry about, and far more important work to do.

First we have to get the momentum and votes for clear legal status. Thanks for your anticipated help with that, no matter what develops thereafter.

Skallagrim

[MayorHerb]

[ QUOTE ]

Mason,

For a world class poker mind you sure are coming off as a real jerk with this post.

Your fight with the PPA and their members does nothing to advance our interests. Even if this is how you feel, what is to be gained by your outward show of hostility?

[/ QUOTE ]

FWIW, I wouldn't dare call Mason a jerk, but maybe "over the top". Hello Bryan. I hope there's help out there for the case in PA (having nothing to do with online).

[oldbookguy]

Let me say, welcome aboard, and may you help us in ways we have not even imagined yet.

As Robert Frost said, "I have miles to go before I sleep" and we too have miles to go before we rest from this fight for poker.


obg

[KEW]

[ QUOTE ]
Just so you know, the official 2+2 position concerning the PPA is neutral. It will not become positive until issues with your board are improved. This means that you can post here and interact with other forum posters, but you cannot solicit memberships or ask for money in any way.

Also, so there is no confusion as to exactly who you are, we also ask that you finish each post with your name and position with the PPA.

Mason Malmuth
Owner and Publisher
Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
www.twoplustwo.com (http://www.twoplustwo.com)

[/ QUOTE ]

Does 2+2 publishing LLC have an "official" opinion on either the Wexler Bill or the Frank Bill???? I have not heard..

IMO there is no "neutral"...To me neutral is negative..When the reason in the make up of the Board and a "potential" conflict interest..This IMO is not "neutral" but clearly "negative"..

FWIW I fully support the PPA..I am yet to see evidence that the PPA is not working in and for "my" best interests..The PPA Fly-in IMO was a huge success a proof of the PPA intentions..

[Mason Malmuth]

[ QUOTE ]
IMO there is no "neutral"...To me neutral is negative..

[/ QUOTE ]

If we were negative, PPA representatives would not be allowed to post here.

MM

[Richas]

Oh well looks like the stick is here to stay say Mason's doctors.

I sometimes wonder why it is that Poker players faced with a mutual threat and the need for a bit of cooperation and colective action rapidly descend to the level of ferrets in a sack but then I remember - they are poker players!

[DeadMoneyDad]

[ QUOTE ]
FWIW I fully support the PPA..I am yet to see evidence that the PPA is not working in and for "my" best interests..The PPA Fly-in IMO was a huge success a proof of the PPA intentions..

[/ QUOTE ]

The PPA as a 501(c)(3), is pretty much limited to lobbing and education, fly-ins and such. For the PPA to become a true grassroots organization that can operate as political force it needs 501(c)(4) or 527 status.

You can not directly advocate the election or defeat of a Federal Candidate without the change. You could continue to operate as a 501(c)(3), but you are severly limited in what you can advocate and do during an election cycle.



D$D

[oldbookguy]

Exactly D$D, perhaps the PPA should take a page or 2 from FoF, the main company has the general stuff and there are 20 other sub sites they own and run.

No, we do not need that many, but, at least another legally seperate site such as they use, Focus on the Family Action which states on the main page:

Focus on the Family Action is a new cultural action organization that is completely separate from Focus on the Family, legally. It has been created by separating out of Focus on the Family those activities which constitute lobbying under the IRS code so that they can be expanded in scope. It will provide a platform for informing, inspiring and rallying those who care deeply about the family to greater involvement in the moral, cultural and political issues that threaten our nation.

obg


[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
FWIW I fully support the PPA..I am yet to see evidence that the PPA is not working in and for "my" best interests..The PPA Fly-in IMO was a huge success a proof of the PPA intentions..

[/ QUOTE ]

The PPA as a 501(c)(3), is pretty much limited to lobbing and education, fly-ins and such. For the PPA to become a true grassroots organization that can operate as political force it needs 501(c)(4) or 527 status.

You can not directly advocate the election or defeat of a Federal Candidate without the change. You could continue to operate as a 501(c)(3), but you are severly limited in what you can advocate and do during an election cycle.



D$D

[/ QUOTE ]

[PPABryan]

On these notes introduced by D$D and the oldbookguy, I can assure you the PPA will continue to grow and expand how we operate here in DC and across the country. We are still a young organization compared to other interest groups in the area, and these options could very well be in our future.

Bryan Spadaro
Membership Relations, Manager
Poker Players Alliance

[DeadMoneyDad]

[ QUOTE ]
On these notes introduced by D$D and the oldbookguy, I can assure you the PPA will continue to grow and expand how we operate here in DC and across the country. We are still a young organization compared to other interest groups in the area, and these options could very well be in our future.

Bryan Spadaro
Membership Relations, Manager
Poker Players Alliance

[/ QUOTE ]

I hate to shoot the message carrier but....

I've seen entire national campaigns start and finish in the time the PPA has been around.

There seems to be too much defense played and hope seems to be the corner stone of the strategy.

Sure the WTO could cause Congress to act, but can we even shape that action?

Poker's future IMO will be decided in '09.

If we aren't a major player in '08 then others will be. We will have a lousey "table image", and be unable IMO to do what needs to be done.

Letters are fine, donations can be effective, lobbiests can work magic, but "we the people" decide elections and shape legislation. Unless the PPA gets its act together this winter we are looking at hoping to hit an runner runner to win.

This thought that we wait until we defeat the UIGEA before addressing taxes is the biggest looser of all.

We either step up now or fold.


D$D

[Skallagrim]

"This thought that we wait until we defeat the UIGEA before addressing taxes is the biggest looser of all."

Hardly, we wait until we have a build up of support sufficient to defeat the UIGEA, then we concentrate on what the post UIGEA world will look like. I am hoping that we get the Wexler bill passed, then taxes are not really even an issue (players pay standard income taxes, sites pay standard corporate taxes - offshore sites continue to pay their own country's taxes). Then we lobby the IRS to write some understandable and workable rules about online "sessions."

Skallagrim

[renodoc]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
IMO there is no "neutral"...To me neutral is negative..

[/ QUOTE ]

If we were negative, PPA representatives would not be allowed to post here.

MM

[/ QUOTE ]

Hi Bryan, please fight the good fight.

oh yeah- in before obvious lock.

[DeadMoneyDad]

[ QUOTE ]
"This thought that we wait until we defeat the UIGEA before addressing taxes is the biggest looser of all."

Hardly, we wait until we have a build up of support sufficient to defeat the UIGEA, then we concentrate on what the post UIGEA world will look like. I am hoping that we get the Wexler bill passed, then taxes are not really even an issue (players pay standard income taxes, sites pay standard corporate taxes - offshore sites continue to pay their own country's taxes). Then we lobby the IRS to write some understandable and workable rules about online "sessions."

Skallagrim

[/ QUOTE ]

I didn't say I didn't understand the strategy, I said I think it is a looser.

Uncollected taxes on on-line poker are our single biggest bet in the pot.

We have to get strong enough to defeat the UIGEA no matter what.

Why try to hit two great hands in a row.

Once those pols estimate the tax income generated from fully legal and regulated on-line poker it goes into the budget and gets spent three times over. It will take some mutiple of the power to defeat the UIGEA to over come the resistiance to a "poker tax give away".

Reasonable taxes follows the skills game argument, it is not a different set of logical basis and can and should be done at the same time.

I doubt we'll get a carry over of losses from year to year but getting a simple netting of winnings and losses is a pretty simple argument.

But we can do none of this unless we show we have some political muscle. Contuning to hope for the best because we think it is right and logical just doesn't fly in DC.

D$D

[oldbookguy]

Skall is correct, we get the Wexler Bill or recognized as legit under the current SKILL playing rules then taxes kick in automatically and U S sites will quickly be established, even say Stars US, then all will be well.

The current skill sites have a working tax structure in place, even W2G reporting and you know, World Winner pays U S taxes already as does YAHOO, they run poker in the EU already and are just waiting for the go ahead to enter the U S market.

Then, fight for a better reporting structure.

obg

[Robin Foolz]

bryan,

i think ppa is non-effective atm. we have a bunch of stalled poker bills in congress, the UIEGA/whatever passed, the regulations are being written, a bunch of poker sites left us, and even the study bill looks like it won't be considered until next year or 2009. what exactly have you guys done? do you guys have any goals?

i also think in reality you guys have a minimal interacting/participating membership. most of your members only signed up because they were given bonuses at party to sign up, effectively getting the membership for free and getting some free money (bonus) on top of it; and the fact you guys also had a lousy public spokesperson for the longest that made me cringe every time i heard him speak, in my eyes, you guys are as ineffective as you are visible.

can you tell me(us) if the ppa is working to change this perception in the near future? if so, how?

[CTFIRE]

I was good to meet you in DC and thanks for your work

[checktowin]

welcome aboard

[okietalker]

Wow MM comes across as a pompous arse.

That said,

Welcome Bryan

[toutatis70]

Maybe you could start by getting more e-mails out to your members explaining exactly what your organization is accomplishing and working on. I'm new to this section, but can anyone tell me in short why and how cardplayer dominates the PPA board.

[Mason Malmuth]

We believe that the board issues of the PPA and their lack of transparency in many areas will eventually hurt the cause that they are fighting for and in which we agree with.

[ QUOTE ]
Wow MM comes across as a pompous arse.


[/ QUOTE ]

Enjoy your vacation.

MM

[whangarei]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Wow MM comes across as a pompous arse.


[/ QUOTE ]

Enjoy your vacation.

MM

[/ QUOTE ]

/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /images/graemlins/laugh.gif /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

[kailua]

[ QUOTE ]
On these notes introduced by D$D and the oldbookguy, I can assure you the PPA will continue to grow and expand how we operate here in DC and across the country. We are still a young organization compared to other interest groups in the area, and these options could very well be in our future.

Bryan Spadaro
Membership Relations, Manager
Poker Players Alliance

[/ QUOTE ]

Welcome Bryan....btw if you don't have anything substantive to add, please don't comment and spare us the "DC" speak.

[okietalker]

[ QUOTE ]
We believe that the board issues of the PPA and their lack of transparency in many areas will eventually hurt the cause that they are fighting for and in which we agree with.

[ QUOTE ]
Wow MM comes across as a pompous arse.


[/ QUOTE ]

Enjoy your vacation.

MM

[/ QUOTE ]

And "MY Vacation" makes me think you really just might be.

[JackInDaCrak]

For those of you resistant to Bryan's presence here for whatever reason, I offer you this:

Whatever problems you may have with the PPA's board or the way the organization is run, the fact remains that they are one of the only positive forces for the interests of poker players in legislation in DC and in the United States.

As with any organization the PPA is only as strong as its membership. If you have a problem with how it's run or have a suggestion, you should write a letter. Maybe you can effectuate a change for the positive.

It seems self-defeatist to resist one of the few tools and venues that we as poker players have to represent ourselves and our interests. So, you can support it actively, or you can not support it, as you are free to do. But don't deride it.

Fwiw I know Bryan personally and I am not affiliated with the PPA. But I do think that the PPA is working for our benefit, whether or not Mason Malmuth agrees.

[jase]

Hi Bryan,

How can I get hold of the PPA's form 990 for '06? As a 501 (c)(3) organization, I should be able to find it on sites like guidestar.org.

Can you direct to where I can get it?

Thanks

[RikaKazak]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Just so you know, the official 2+2 position concerning the PPA is neutral. It will not become positive until issues with your board are improved. This means that you can post here and interact with other forum posters, but you cannot solicit memberships or ask for money in any way.

Also, so there is no confusion as to exactly who you are, we also ask that you finish each post with your name and position with the PPA.

Mason Malmuth
Owner and Publisher
Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
www.twoplustwo.com (http://www.twoplustwo.com)

[/ QUOTE ]

Does 2+2 publishing LLC have an "official" opinion on either the Wexler Bill or the Frank Bill???? I have not heard..

IMO there is no "neutral"...To me neutral is negative..When the reason in the make up of the Board and a "potential" conflict interest..This IMO is not "neutral" but clearly "negative"..

FWIW I fully support the PPA..I am yet to see evidence that the PPA is not working in and for "my" best interests..The PPA Fly-in IMO was a huge success a proof of the PPA intentions..

[/ QUOTE ]

Nuetral in political terms is.....we're fighting for the same cause and I don't like you

OR

We're fighting for the same cause but I disagree on this particular bill, I'll let it slide and stay nuetral because in the future I expect you to return the favor.

There is TON TON TONSSSSS of "nuetrals" in politics.

[RikaKazak]

My feeling on this thread.

Mason came off HARSH!...must be bad blood or something.

PPABryan comes off like a political guy...never answering the question yet dancing around it (like "how long till you think it'll be legalize"..."ummm....earlier the better" no [censored] sherlock)

Whatever...if poker sites really wanted it legalized they wouldn't of been so stupid and thrown TONS of money at this BEFORE the bill passed. (I do think they want it legalized, but they were too stupid or arrogant or cheap to actually do something about it..everyone knows, for enough money this bill wouldn't have gone through)

[catlover]

I believe the issues with the PPA are serious, and Mason is right to take them seriously. Sometimes, taking an issue seriously requires one to do something that appears nasty -- and I think that's what's happening with Mason. I can say from personal experience that while Mason can be harsh at times, he generally has a good reason for it.

That said, Bryan appears to be sincere, and the issues are not his fault, as well as above his level. So I'm glad he's come to the forum.

[Cactus Jack]

[ QUOTE ]
My feeling on this thread.

Mason came off HARSH!...must be bad blood or something.

PPABryan comes off like a political guy...never answering the question yet dancing around it (like "how long till you think it'll be legalize"..."ummm....earlier the better" no [censored] sherlock)

Whatever...if poker sites really wanted it legalized they wouldn't of been so stupid and thrown TONS of money at this BEFORE the bill passed. (I do think they want it legalized, but they were too stupid or arrogant or cheap to actually do something about it..everyone knows, for enough money this bill wouldn't have gone through)

[/ QUOTE ]

Let's stop this one right now.

No amount of money would have kept Bill Frist from attaching the bill to the must-pass Port Security Bill. One man made this happen. It did not come up for a vote on its merits. It was not debated. No one could have stopped it.

I'm all for revisionist history, but get your facts straight.

[Legislurker]

[ QUOTE ]
I believe the issues with the PPA are serious, and Mason is right to take them seriously. Sometimes, taking an issue seriously requires one to do something that appears nasty -- and I think that's what's happening with Mason. I can say from personal experience that while Mason can be harsh at times, he generally has a good reason for it.

That said, Bryan appears to be sincere, and the issues are not his fault, as well as above his level. So I'm glad he's come to the forum.

[/ QUOTE ]

How are the issues "above his level"? Apparently the PPA wants to organize poker players, but not give what is required to do so. If his job is to interact with this message board, why isn't answering why the PPA isn't endorsed by 2p2 "at his level". As far as the PPA's presence here goes, that is issue #1. 2-10 as well. The question isn't going away by ignoring it, and a lot of people simply will not up their participation and support of
the PPA until it occurs.

[TheEngineer]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I believe the issues with the PPA are serious, and Mason is right to take them seriously. Sometimes, taking an issue seriously requires one to do something that appears nasty -- and I think that's what's happening with Mason. I can say from personal experience that while Mason can be harsh at times, he generally has a good reason for it.

That said, Bryan appears to be sincere, and the issues are not his fault, as well as above his level. So I'm glad he's come to the forum.

[/ QUOTE ]

How are the issues "above his level"? Apparently the PPA wants to organize poker players, but not give what is required to do so. If his job is to interact with this message board, why isn't answering why the PPA isn't endorsed by 2p2 "at his level". As far as the PPA's presence here goes, that is issue #1. 2-10 as well. The question isn't going away by ignoring it, and a lot of people simply will not up their participation and support of
the PPA until it occurs.

[/ QUOTE ]

Mason has stated here that he wants wholeasale board resignations plus 2+2 LLC representation on the board. I don't think Bryan can do this.

[TheEngineer]

Also, there have been many recent posts wondering why the PPA hasn't done specific things, often with a tone implying that they were incompetent for not having done so. I do concur that there were plenty of "sins of omission" in the past. The past is the past.

We have a process in place now that no one seems to be using. I speak with John Pappas weekly and communicate with him via email almost daily. If you need anything from the PPA, please let me know and I'll communicate it. Just PM me or email me. It's that simple. I'm not on the board to have something to talk about at parties. /images/graemlins/confused.gif I'm on the board to represent our interests and to fight for our rights. I have no other interests in the seat.

Look at Mass. It came up and I was asked to get PPA involved. I immediately contacted John Pappas and Randy C. Then, thanks to Randy's hard work, we had an organized campaign within a few days.

Don't assume they know already....if you want it, let me know (preferably via PM).

[4_2_it]

[ QUOTE ]

Look at Mass. It came up and I was asked to get PPA involved. I immediately contacted John Pappas and Randy C. Then, thanks to Randy's hard work, we had an organized campaign within a few days.

Don't assume they know already....if you want it, let me know (preferably via PM).

[/ QUOTE ]

This is a pretty good argument in support of Mason's position. Regular players have a better idea of what's happening than the PPA Board. That is exactly the opposite of how it should be. I wonder how many Board members besides Engineer know about the Florida situation. It has been talked about here for months and months yet the PPA has not seen fit to do anything to influence the compast that is about to screw Florida poker players.

I really want to support the PPA, but they need to step up and accomplish something tangible first.

[DeadMoneyDad]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
My feeling on this thread.

Mason came off HARSH!...must be bad blood or something.

PPABryan comes off like a political guy...never answering the question yet dancing around it (like "how long till you think it'll be legalize"..."ummm....earlier the better" no [censored] sherlock)

Whatever...if poker sites really wanted it legalized they wouldn't of been so stupid and thrown TONS of money at this BEFORE the bill passed. (I do think they want it legalized, but they were too stupid or arrogant or cheap to actually do something about it..everyone knows, for enough money this bill wouldn't have gone through)

[/ QUOTE ]

Let's stop this one right now.

No amount of money would have kept Bill Frist from attaching the bill to the must-pass Port Security Bill. One man made this happen. It did not come up for a vote on its merits. It was not debated. No one could have stopped it.

I'm all for revisionist history, but get your facts straight.

[/ QUOTE ]

Your facts are correct up to a point.

The poker community has been behind the curve at every step of the way. Maybe it was individual greed, or coroporation indifference, but there was no concerted effort by the "poker community" to fight back against the tide of political opposition to gaming.

The one power well organized enough at the time, B&M's, were atcually against us in the UIGEA. It looks like now from recent industry efforts that B&M's have realized that on-line poker isn't a large threat to their bread and butter business. The problem is, it seems, poker as a whole may not be as valuable in terms of total gaming to the B&M.

That is a future challenge we face. B&M's along with the unrestricted gaming crowd have little interest in a "poker only" bill, for them with a longer time frame in mind, total unrestricted on-line gaming is the big prize. The B&M's can wait for enough pressure from the World to help them accomplish their goal. In the mean time on-line poker is a market some might want to enter, but under the current enviroment they are just as happy to sit back and keep the lid on the boiling pot.

In some ways, the B&M's loose a lot of their leverage if we get a poker only bill. There is a little to be gained by the B&M's from a poker bill, but they have also found out that on-line isn't a total threat to their current business. If you look at the "table" from a long term B&M owner's perspective, keeping a "netural" stance on on-line poker is the safe course.

The other problem is the AGA already has banking interests, and major ones on their board. I know it is considered only a theory of mine that the US banking industry, until they figure out a legislative model to get a bigger share of the on-line pie, will continue to oppose on-line poker if for no other reason than foreign banks profit and they don't. When you consider that currently B&M's and US banking interests are alined then you begin to understand that unless we become a real force in politics our fate as poker players is and will continue to be largely determined by others.

Our best weapon is the fact that we do have in general the numbers in total to be an effective force. The 365 Billion dollar question is can we organize ourselves to matter. We are the only pro-gaming group that has an issue to currently mobilize the number of people to be a real grassroots force.

All the other pro-gaming groups, as well as the PPA currently, are industry lead or sponsored. We'll have a Million members by the end of the year. IMO those numbers are soft but large enough to build an effective force.

Unfortuantly the PPA has a lousey past track record. Yes John et. al., are doing all they can to change that, but it will take a whole lot more people devoting the time and money of some portion of their poker lives over the next year, IMO, to be sucessful.

How many of you are really willing to give up a couple of hours and the associated money a week, from playing poker to playing politics, over the next year or so to make this happen?

How many of you that want to go back to making a nice living from all the fish that populated the waters pre-UIGEA are willing to help restock the lake?

That is the real question.



D$D

[catlover]

One issue is that the PPA does not appear to be able to notice pending state legislation. It missed the WA bill entirely. And this board alerted it to the MA bill, rather than the other way around.

In that regard, this website and company may be of interest: http://www.statenet.com/leg/govtaffairs/

[Skallagrim]

I dont really think you can expect the PPA to have a staffer who follows every legislative bill introduced in every state in order to find the ones that affect poker.

The PPA, just like any other advocacy organization, is going to have rely on the media (bad choice) or its members (perfect choice) to find out these things. Its how the PPA responds that will tell whether its is becoming a truly effective org.

As to the Mass. issue being first presented here on 2+2, ISNT THAT WHY WE COME AND POST TO 2+2 IN THE FIRST PLACE? Sort of like the AP scandal, posters here noticed something amiss, looked further, and alerted the rest of us and action was begun. This is how the information age works.

The PPA was always DC focused before, but is now (finally) branching out - the DC focus is important, but so is responding to state issues. So far so good PPA, at least this time around.

I really cant see how changing the board (which I am still neutral about) would have made any difference here.

Skallagrim

[TheEngineer]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Look at Mass. It came up and I was asked to get PPA involved. I immediately contacted John Pappas and Randy C. Then, thanks to Randy's hard work, we had an organized campaign within a few days.

Don't assume they know already....if you want it, let me know (preferably via PM).

[/ QUOTE ]

This is a pretty good argument in support of Mason's position. Regular players have a better idea of what's happening than the PPA Board. That is exactly the opposite of how it should be. I wonder how many Board members besides Engineer know about the Florida situation. It has been talked about here for months and months yet the PPA has not seen fit to do anything to influence the compast that is about to screw Florida poker players.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks for your comments. I should reiterate that I'm not a PPA apologist, nor am I the PPA rep here. I'm your rep to PPA.

The PPA Board is what it is. Pappas does run the show, and I've seen no evidence that he's not working 100% on our behalf. He definitely works very hard for us. If your main concern is input by PPA members, if want something specific from the PPA just PM me. You and any other 2+2 member will have more input than 80% of the board.

[ QUOTE ]
I really want to support the PPA, but they need to step up and accomplish something tangible first.

[/ QUOTE ]

We did lose the HR 4411 vote in the House 317-93. Some think this should be easy to overcome, if only PPA would step up. I do think we have a tough struggle ahead for our rights, and I've seen tangible results. Not everyone thinks like we poker players do. I guess an issue here is that PPA needs to improve their communication. I've discussed this with John Pappas. Hopefully this will be improved.

[4_2_it]

Engineer,

I don't doubt that both you and Mr Pappas are sincere and are working very hard on our behalf. I think you have the right idea by coming to a forum populated by poker players and listening.

Let me explain my "Something Tangible" comment. Outside of the Washington Fly-in I can't think of one thing the PPA has done and I am on this board every day. Even if you point something out from 6 months ago, it has not resonated with me.

I do not yet associate the PPA with being the poker player's advocate like I associate Google with search engine or McDonald's with fast food or the NRA with the 2nd Amendment.

[DeadMoneyDad]

[ QUOTE ]
Also, there have been many recent posts wondering why the PPA hasn't done specific things, often with a tone implying that they were incompetent for not having done so. I do concur that there were plenty of "sins of omission" in the past. The past is the past.

[/ QUOTE ]

But you must admit that some of the structural problems that lead to these "sins of omission" still exist today.

John is short of people, money, and time. The legacy of the "past" still affects "daily" life of the PPA today.

John identified one of the main causes and promised to address it imediately, communications. Yes steps have been taken to address this but even these have been hampered by the legacy of the past and the HQ move.

I know of some decisions and can imagine the number of confrence calls many of the ones I know nothing about must generate. I know from the Fly-in conversations that many of the ideas from the members are indeed fully discussed and considered. However communicating the decisions reached and reasons back to the author or larger community has been lacking. Given the nature of a political group, this is a very difficult process to balance, I know from experience.

[ QUOTE ]

We have a process in place now that no one seems to be using. I speak with John Pappas weekly and communicate with him via email almost daily. If you need anything from the PPA, please let me know and I'll communicate it. Just PM me or email me. It's that simple. I'm not on the board to have something to talk about at parties. /images/graemlins/confused.gif I'm on the board to represent our interests and to fight for our rights. I have no other interests in the seat.

[/ QUOTE ]


Adding another private channel of communications isn't the answer, but I do appreciate you offering to take on this task. But as you can imagine this will only make the problem worse not better, no matter how hard you work at it.

I do not have a magic answer. Part of this falls on Bryan's plate as Manager of Mamber Relations, and from having spoken to him a number of times, I do feel that once he gets fully up to speed this will solve some of the issues.

IMO the PPA needs better communication at the State level. I imagine this is part of the job duties of the Grassroots position that hasn't yet been filled. But beyond that the grassroots person has to be able to provide the tools to the States to really build those networks.

I know the NRA is the model and it is a good thing to aspire to that groups sucess. But lets be honest, at this critical time we are a very long way from the NRA.

I've admitted often that the political clock in my head ticks much louder than most. You may feel it is a sign of insanity. You might be right. But I've been involved in too many efforts where at the end I wished I had just another week. So each week that goes by is very presious to me, because once past they are lost forever.

So my criticism has nothing to do with the capabilities of the people at the helm, unless you count their speed. I know there must be a few hundred issues I know nothing about with enough knowledge to speak confidently about that John must have to deal with on a weekly basis.

But I do think I know enough to have a decent grasp on the outline of the problem, enough to discuss it openly.

At the heart of the matter for many members and most non-members of the PPA haven't felt the organization has yet shown its worth. Given John's relative newness to the position, which the value of the defense deminishes daily, I know this perception is completely unfair. But it is a reality he does face.

The PPA counts it's members at something like one out of thirty potential members, in round numbers. That membership is completely untested, given that the majority are freeroll sign ups who's worth is unknown. Take Don from Chicago, he went to sign up and didn't know he was already a member! Through contact and some support from the PPA with a meaningful activity he perhaps is as valuable member in IL as the PPA has in Chicago.

In my experience it doesn't take much, but it does take the right mix of sales and concrete action to turn a pissed off citizen into a world class political advocate. IMO this is where the lack of time, money, and people are hurting the PPA the most.

Yes it is fair to say that John, Bryan, and even you TE are doing all you can do to the best of your ability. But right now for what needs to be done, IMO, that just isn't enough to get where we need to be. IMO there is a vast resovior of untapped talent and resources just waiting to be given the opportunity. I've seen it in every endevor I've every been involved in in my life.

So please take this in the true spirit it is intended. I know you all are working your hearts out. That isn't the problem.

I don't buy completely the notion that there is "unseen" hands at work retarding the potential of the PPA. But the lack of concrete actions and poor communication feeds this misconception on a daily basis.

You all have a right to get a little defensive to critism, I know I would if I were in your position. But you have to look at it from both inside and outside. I'm sorry to say that for sometime in the future every "sin of omission" will be magnified and continued miscommunication will continue to feed the notion of "other forces at work."


D$D

[TheEngineer]

[ QUOTE ]
Engineer,

I don't doubt that both you and Mr Pappas are sincere and are working very hard on our behalf. I think you have the right idea by coming to a forum populated by poker players and listening.

Let me explain my "Something Tangible" comment. Outside of the Washington Fly-in I can't think of one thing the PPA has done and I am on this board every day. Even if you point something out from 6 months ago, it has not resonated with me.

I do not yet associate the PPA with being the poker player's advocate like I associate Google with search engine or McDonald's with fast food or the NRA with the 2nd Amendment.

[/ QUOTE ]

Good comments, as always. PPA has been primarily focused on Congressional lobbying. They've actually excelled at that. We do have three bills out there, with good cosponsors, and the congressmen with whom I spoke all said the PPA lobby is very strong. The most tangible result at the federal level is the fact that no one has proposed a bill to strengthen or expand UIGEA.

Unfortunately, that work is out of the public eye. As PPA had very poor member communication prior to Pappas taking over (and it could still use improvement), this tangible work received even less credit than it should have.

PPA is starting to work more at the state level. This is belated, IMO, but it is occuring. For example, Lee Rousso of WA, Randy C. of Mass, and I (KY) are very active in our respective states. Many other state directors whom I met at the Fly-In are very capable and will do a great job if an issue comes up in their states.

There is work to be done. That's why I'm volunteering with PPA. I hope we'll all do our part to strengthen our position.

[JPFisher55]

I agree that the NRA is the model for the PPA. If Congress actually passed a law prohibiting citizens from using their credit cards, ewallets or other forms of payment to purchase firearms and prohibiting gun retailers from accepting such payment, does anyone doubt that the NRA would be in federal court the next day? Of course, the NRA has demonstrated such political power that it has blocked much less onerous legislation concerning firearms sales and ownership.
IMO if the PPA is to approach the effectiveness of the NRA, then it must, of course, increase its paying members and it must eventually undertake activities other than lobbying to accomplish its goals. However, I am impressed by the new management and I do intend to renew my membership ($25 level) this spring when it is up for renewal. IMO the board of directors is much less important than what the PPA does in the future.
TE or Bryan, just curious, how many dues paying members does the PPA have?

[Cactus Jack]

D$D, I think I have my facts exactly in order.

Those who voted for the bill in the House were doing so because they thought there was never going to be a vote in the Senate. They played political chicken and we lost. Most of the Democrats would never, ever vote for this if it was held today. They thought it was a dead or arrival issue.

Second, the climate in mid-2006 was very different than it is today. It appeared as if we were headed for the culmination of Rove's dream, or my nightmare, a fascist state. Democrats were in massive retreat. If anything, the UIGEA was one of the most visible signs that the neo-cons weere going too far.

Without Bill Frist's evil hand, the UIGEA would never have come up for a vote in the Senate. One man, one hundred votes, in this case. A complete corruption of the process. And notice the man is no longer in office or running for anything.

Go back over the posts here last year. No one thought this had any chance of happening, and it had no chance, except for Frist.

How long has the NRA been fighting a LOSING cause??? The vast majority of people in this country for tougher gun laws. The NRA has 3 million members in a country of 300 million people. They make a lot of noise for a group so small. And who do you guys think pay the bills for the NRA? Could it be S&W, Remington, Colt, etc? And how many overseas manufacturers?

I think we ought to stop knocking the PPA as it is, since it appears to be heading in the right direction. I'd like to see some more effort put into media relations and get the word out in the card rooms. The PPA shouldn't be only about the Internet.

The PPA is a relative newcomer. They are at least getting the national press to call for a quote, which is way ahead of where they were.

CJ

[Mason Malmuth]

[ QUOTE ]
Mason has stated here that he wants wholeasale board resignations plus 2+2 LLC representation on the board. I don't think Bryan can do this.

[/ QUOTE ]

I have never stated that Two Plus Two LLC should have representation on the board. I have stated that I'm very uncomfortable with large affiliate banks having representation on the board, and since we are moving into that area it may not be proper for there to be a Two Plus Two board member.

I also have stated that I believe there needs to be changes made in their board but have only publicly called for the resignation of one board member although we would be happy with more chages than that.

Mason

[JPFisher55]

I am just curious. Why is it bad that the board of PPA consists mostly of industry representatives from affiliates or Cardplayer? Don't those type of companies have a huge stake in the legalization of online poker (or its confirmation as legal) including open access to foreign poker sites and establishment of domestic poker sites? If they have fronted a great deal of the money, then don't they have the right to large representation on the board? And isn't more important what the PPA does than who is on its board of directors?

[TheEngineer]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Mason has stated here that he wants wholeasale board resignations plus 2+2 LLC representation on the board. I don't think Bryan can do this.

[/ QUOTE ]

I have never stated that Two Plus Two LLC should have representation on the board. I have stated that I'm very uncomfortable with large affiliate banks having representation on the board, and since we are moving into that area it may not be proper for there to be a Two Plus Two board member.

I also have stated that I believe there needs to be changes made in their board but have only publicly called for the resignation of one board member although we would be happy with more chages than that.

Mason

[/ QUOTE ]

Mason,

The vision you described here would require more than one board member to resign, which was my main point. Regardless, the changes required to meet your expectations truly are well above Bryan's level.

It sounds like 2+2 LLC and PPA are at a stalemate. You require them to remove one board member as a minimum to even consider moving beyond your "neutral" rating, and PPA will not do this. Is there nothing that can be done to break this logjam? It doesn't seem productive. After all, while no one is saying PPA is perfect, the poll we just ran did show a reasonably high degree of support for them. If you can come up with an alternate plan that doesn't involve removal of this one member, will you PM me or call me so I can try to move something forward? If not, that's fair enough. In that case, I guess we'll all agree to disagree and move forward for poker.

Thanks.

[whangarei]

[ QUOTE ]
I am just curious. Why is it bad that the board of PPA consists mostly of industry representatives from affiliates or Cardplayer? Don't those type of companies have a huge stake in the legalization of online poker (or its confirmation as legal) including open access to foreign poker sites and establishment of domestic poker sites? If they have fronted a great deal of the money, then don't they have the right to large representation on the board? And isn't more important what the PPA does than who is on its board of directors?

[/ QUOTE ]

I tend to agree with this. I currently play almost exclusively online, though. I think the B&M crowd would like to see the PPA focus more on their concerns.

[DeadMoneyDad]

[ QUOTE ]
D$D, I think I have my facts exactly in order.

[/ QUOTE ]

The facts you want to discuss happened over a few weeks compared to the ground work layed by those opposed to us over more than a decade.

The whole poker community has been behind the curve politically not just the PPA. The more I look into it the more I am begining to feel the community deserves what it gets. Everyone seems so worried about their own personal perspective and saving as much as they have gained, rather than looking at the larger community's needs.


[ QUOTE ]
I think we ought to stop knocking the PPA as it is, since it appears to be heading in the right direction. I'd like to see some more effort put into media relations and get the word out in the card rooms. The PPA shouldn't be only about the Internet.

[/ QUOTE ]

Media relations is one of the PPA's stronger points. Its ability to tap the resivor of talent in this country is what is lacking.

I don't criticise the PPA in any way as a means to knock it at all. Please understand that. There are some good people working very hard, and I do appreciate all they are doing on a daily basis.

But there is a real lack of desire to get the troops trained for the up comming fight. There seems to be too much reliance on building the facade while short cutting the foundation, IMO.

"Putting lip stick on a pig," is a phrase that has been used in this forum in the past. While it is a little harsh to describe the real hard work that has been done and what has been accomplished todate, the fact remains that make up has been applied to a number of situations where a little foresight or extra effort would have worked much better.

My complaints about the PPA are meant as a member who cares what happens to the organization, not someone who wants to destroy it.

[ QUOTE ]
The PPA is a relative newcomer. They are at least getting the national press to call for a quote, which is way ahead of where they were.

[/ QUOTE ]

2 years is a lifetime in politics, John has been at the helm for 3 months or so. Yes he is up to his ass in aligators. I spoke to him a little tonight about a number of these issues without destroying the spirit of the evening, but only in passing. I know he is well aware of the challenges ahead.

I am not exactly sure how much confidence he has in the existing members of the PPA. Personally I would expect much more from the membership than has been asked todate. But then again I don't sit, thankfully, behind his desk.

John is a very capibile and intelegent young man. The task he has taken on is almost thankless, and an uphill battle at that. But even that said, I will continue to offer both my opinions as well as help in any manner to the effort.

Getting the kind of effort out of the poker community needed to make the impact nessecary to reach our common goal may not be possible given the nature of most poker players as this is in no way a team sport.

But personally I do think it is possible to motivate this community. There are still a lot of structrual problems in the current PPA. Yes the are well known to most anyone with any knowledge of the history of the PPA. Yes they are to some degree being attempted to be solved.

I am just not convinced that the current planning and work nessecary for us to reach our goals is being done in a timely manner.

I could be and I hope I am very wrong.

Oh on a note of news, I think the hearing might be scheduled for next week if it hasn't been announced elsewhere.


The Horton's Kids event was a lot of fun. The tourney structure left a little to be desired given the buy-in level, but considering the real reason for the event it was a major sucess.


D$D

[Richas]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Mason has stated here that he wants wholeasale board resignations plus 2+2 LLC representation on the board. I don't think Bryan can do this.

[/ QUOTE ]

I have never stated that Two Plus Two LLC should have representation on the board. I have stated that I'm very uncomfortable with large affiliate banks having representation on the board, and since we are moving into that area it may not be proper for there to be a Two Plus Two board member.

I also have stated that I believe there needs to be changes made in their board but have only publicly called for the resignation of one board member although we would be happy with more chages than that.

Mason

[/ QUOTE ]

That's it? 1 resignation and you are not "neutral" anymore?

Some might conclude that this is personal rather than a principled position. What difference does 1 board member make when the question is support for the organisation doing most to defend poker player's rights?

[Mason Malmuth]

[ QUOTE ]
That's it? 1 resignation and you are not "neutral" anymore?


[/ QUOTE ]

No. We make the best decisions we can based on the information available. We don't guarantee anything based on one change, and we reserve the right to change our position even if there are no changes. Don't make inaccurate assumptions about our purpose here.

To be a little more specific, going back to our statement of over one year ago, there were a number of areas we had concern with.

MM

[Richas]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
That's it? 1 resignation and you are not "neutral" anymore?


[/ QUOTE ]

No. We make the best decisions we can based on the information available. We don't guarantee anything based on one change, and we reserve the right to change our position even if there are no changes. Don't make inaccurate assumptions about our purpose here.

To be a little more specific, going back to our statement of over one year ago, there were a number of areas we had concern with.

MM

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks for the clarification on my question (not assumption).

I think we all feel the PPA has made progress in the past year. How far do you think they have come towards meeting your concerns 10% 20% 50% 80% ?

[sobefuddled]

We are the PPA if we have joined, regardless of the method by which we may have joined. If the organizaton is spread so thin that it cannot respond to all these situations then the membershiop needs to look at themselves. I for one am willing to help in whatever way I am able. I'm in MA. Can I give an hour or so a day? Yes. More if needed. I'm a recreational poker player. I work for a living but can be flexible with my hours. I will make time.

[phiphika1453]

[ QUOTE ]
We believe that the board issues of the PPA and their lack of transparency in many areas will eventually hurt the cause that they are fighting for and in which we agree with.

[ QUOTE ]
Wow MM comes across as a pompous arse.


[/ QUOTE ]

Enjoy your vacation.

MM

[/ QUOTE ]

LOL, ego trip much? You want freedom to play cards on the internet but he cant have freedom to voice his opinion to you on your public forum?

[4_2_it]

[ QUOTE ]

LOL, ego trip much? You want freedom to play cards on the internet but he cant have freedom to voice his opinion to you on your public forum?

[/ QUOTE ]

I didn't see any opinion voiced, only an insult. Name calling is a bannable offense in every forum on this site. Granted some of the off topic forum are more lenient, but that's up to the mods of those forums to enforce. MM did nothing out of the ordinary there. If I had seen it before MM, I would have deleted the post and issued a ban as well.

No one got banned because they said, "Mason I think you are wrong/misguided/full of it/whatever because....." Vigorous debate is good, hurling insults is uncalled for.

[DeadMoneyDad]

[ QUOTE ]
We are the PPA if we have joined, regardless of the method by which we may have joined. If the organizaton is spread so thin that it cannot respond to all these situations then the membershiop needs to look at themselves. I for one am willing to help in whatever way I am able. I'm in MA. Can I give an hour or so a day? Yes. More if needed. I'm a recreational poker player. I work for a living but can be flexible with my hours. I will make time.

[/ QUOTE ]

Randy or MassPoker, you getting this!?!

Like TE stepping up and doing the work no one else was willing or able to do at the time, this is the type of spirit that is needed from the members and non-members of the PPA from the larger on-line and live poker community as a whole.

Thank you for your post, it should be an inspiration to us all!


D$D

[DeadMoneyDad]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
We believe that the board issues of the PPA and their lack of transparency in many areas will eventually hurt the cause that they are fighting for and in which we agree with.

[ QUOTE ]
Wow MM comes across as a pompous arse.


[/ QUOTE ]

Enjoy your vacation.

MM

[/ QUOTE ]

LOL, ego trip much? You want freedom to play cards on the internet but he cant have freedom to voice his opinion to you on your public forum?

[/ QUOTE ]

This is a privately owned forum open to the public who are willing to follow the established rules.

All freedoms in the world including the right of free speach in this country come at a price. Some of our most dear freedoms come at the highest price.

Getting "silenced" for a few days is a samll price to pay to be a member of this community. If you can't see that then you do not have a clue what this forum is about, nor have you likely much worth as a citizen IMO.


D$D

[CybrPunk]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
We believe that the board issues of the PPA and their lack of transparency in many areas will eventually hurt the cause that they are fighting for and in which we agree with.

[ QUOTE ]
Wow MM comes across as a pompous arse.


[/ QUOTE ]

Enjoy your vacation.

MM

[/ QUOTE ]

LOL, ego trip much? You want freedom to play cards on the internet but he cant have freedom to voice his opinion to you on your public forum?

[/ QUOTE ]

Mason wants the freedom to publish books without lending corporate endorsements to organizations and entities that he cannot comfortably endorse himself. While he may come off harsh, I'm fairly certain Mason only does this stuff to avoid any legal ramifications associated with any endorsement or advertising on their site... and likely feels that he doesn't (or shouldn't have to) explain all of this in detail because it should be inferred. I'm pretty sure it has nothing to do with his stance on regulated online poker (or any potential advertiser posting in the open forum) and everything to do with how he chooses to run his business.

Remember that, in the end, Two Plus Two is a business that publishes books and other gambling related media. I don't necessarily think that means they won't get involved, but rather that they won't get involved with organizations they aren't 100% comfortable with. If you think Two Plus Two wants to see the end of poker expansion in the US, think again. They make their livings off of the influx of new players and I'm sure they would love to see another poker boom that is likely to follow any US regulation of the online gambling industry.