NL50 Frequent Situation that keeps happening

[SkeetyMcdoogle]

what do you guys do here? I feel like folding, calling, and raising ALL SUCK. This also happens to me like 20 times an hour.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (5 handed) Poker Stars (http://www.flopturnriver.com/reviews/Online-Poker-PokerStars.php#converter) Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (http://www.flopturnriver.com) (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Button ($52.20)
SB ($49.65)
BB ($35.10)
UTG ($38.80)
Hero ($50)

Preflop: Hero is MP with K/images/graemlins/club.gif, Q/images/graemlins/club.gif.
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $2</font>, Button calls $2, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, BB calls $1.50.

Flop: ($6.25) 7/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 3/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">BB bets $0.5</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero</font>

Final Pot: $7.25

[whyherro]

Just ignore that he even bet, this is like a check, but weaker. Make your normal sized cbet if you were going to cbet here. If the BB calls double barrell a non spade turn.

[Kik]

Yeah I use to ignore those retarded bets and consider it as a check.

Make your normal sized cbet imo.

[whyzze]

raisy daisy


edit: wait...with 3 ppl...it depends on the other players. never folding.

[Genesis]

[ QUOTE ]
Just ignore that he even bet, this is like a check, but weaker. Make your normal sized cbet if you were going to cbet here. If the BB calls double barrell a non spade turn.

[/ QUOTE ] How about if you weren't going to c-bet? If you call there is a player to act after you that can also sense BB is on a flush draw here and squeeze. But folding for $.50 in a $6.x pot just seems wrong when you could still be ahead.

[kindergartencop]

just raise it a little smaller than you would have cbet. these bets are almost always air and these players usually always suck, just raise kinda small and most of the time they go "oh he caught me i fold". if they call at least you have the lead and can act accordingly on turn.

bet pot, fire 2nd barrel if a scare card (Q,K,A) hits on turn. Obv. depends on oponnent.

[0524432]

I'm not sure that tricking yourself into ignoring the bet all together is the optimal line here. The theory behind it has potential though. The villain is telling you, this flop in somewhere in the vicinity of his range. We raise, to find out how close. For example, I personally will often lead 1/3-2/3 pot with a set on flops like these, especially in a raised pot.(Never mindonk but thats just the sign of an inexperienced player)

Putting a cbet type 1/2-psb bet (or raise in this scenario because of the mindonk) in the pot on this type of pot, especially 3 handed is very much borderline. While, depending on your image, you should often cbet most hands on most flops, however in this situation if you choose to cbet into 2 players you need to be basically shutting down if you miss the turn, and even if you do hit the turn, proceed with caution. Stacking off to a K or Q turn here is extremely spewish.

After all, we have NPND here.

[yegon]

generally I like to raise small donkbets but would just call here.

We have no draw just 2 overs and the flop is not scary enough (no picture cards) to raise with air. With 2 oponents I would have to have a strong read they like to fold, their most likely holdings are PP, SC, Axs so it's very likely one of them hit a part of this flop or will skillfully put us on AK (as seen on TV) and refuse to part with his 66,88.

[Schiester]

[ QUOTE ]
raisy daisy


edit: wait...with 3 ppl...it depends on the other players. never folding.

[/ QUOTE ]

What he said.

I don't like getting carried away with cbets in a pot like this. EP could easily be looking to 3bet and button could yet have hit something on that flop. Your KcQc probably isn't that good here. I'm more likely to call and maybe bet if its quiet between your call and your action on the turn card... lots of money to be lost cbetting multiway pots... Especially OOP.

[Ender Wiggin]

OP this is a bad example due to this being 3-handed on the flop imo

[ama0330]

3way I just call and fold turn to pressure, why go to war here?

[0524432]

[ QUOTE ]
OP this is a bad example due to this being 3-handed on the flop imo

[/ QUOTE ]

bad example? while HU post flop is more common, this is a very real scenario that should be taken into consideration.

As for the numerous comments suggesting just calling the minbet. There is no worse option than calling. After taking control of the hand with a PFR raise, calling a donklead for min allows the hand to spin out of your control. Call&lt;Fold&lt;Raise.

If you're hand is strong enough to consider a call, consider raising. There are many advantages that comes with this (taking control on later streets, deception, information, getting a better hand to fold right there, etc.)

[TilTandWiN]

What I often find is that in this situation villan is either really really weak (or at least thinks he is (with something like mid pair)), or really really strong (and crafty - hoping for a raise of his donk bet) - There is a cheap way to find out what is going on - raise his bet up to $3 or $4 alot of villans will have their hand allready on the fold button. If villan calls I fire a turn with any card that isnt a spade for decent bet. If villan 3bets on the flop then we let it go. I know the situation is marginal but the thrid player in the pot is going to have to have a pretty strong hand/draw to call our raise and because of our small bet size we can still be profitable if the play dosent work 2/3rds of the time. Thoughts on my line?

BTW I know that I am ignoring mega time - but someone sitting w/o a full stack will often not think to look at betting patterns.

[Check_The_Nuts]

I makeit 5 pretty often.

[yegon]

this is the type of flop I would consider not cbetting vs 2 opponents. Why should I raise the donkbet then? I can see myself folding but we are getting good enough odds to draw to our overcards and nobody showed strength yet so our outs look to be good. I don't really think calling is bad here.

[SkeetyMcdoogle]

[ QUOTE ]
OP this is a bad example due to this being 3-handed on the flop imo

[/ QUOTE ]

haha thats pretty much the entire reason for the thread? I think it's very obvious what you do when you see the flop HU in position, but 3 handed makes it a lot more interesting.

For those saying call, arent we basically telling the player to act behind us that we have no hand whatsoever?

[Check_The_Nuts]

skeet -

If it's not a good idea for us to bluff it isn't a good idea for him to either. So the fact he's there doesn't really change much from that point of view (tho it makes it more likely the min donkbetter has something).

[Dominic]

I'f Im the pre-flop raiser I ALWAYS raise this to about $5. 90% of the time they're looking for a cheap turn (draws) and they fold. Obviously, if they play back at me I'm done with the hand. If they just call, I chk behind on the turn (depending on the player and their stack size - sometimes I'll fire another bullet).

Seriously, this is almost always a weak player wanting to see a cheap turn - punish him for this! Treat the min-bet like it didn't happen and C-bet in those spots you would normally have anyway!

didn't realize it was 3-handed...my advice is for HU. 3-handed...hmm, on that flop I probably raise it anyway! I'm never calling and I'm never folding...so raise....but maybe make it a smaller raise - like to $4...

[Check_The_Nuts]

oh seriously, if you have trouble with minbets, start doing it a lot. You'll quickly see the downfalls of it once you yourself are doing it.

[maciczka]

make a normal cbet, if You didn't want to cbet that flop: call that coz of odds. personally when HU and I get that minbet it means 95% of the time that he is DRAWING. so I bet pot or even more to scare him off.

[maSkraP]

Yes, I agree with you. A fold is definately the way to go here. With your NPND hand 3-way, calling is out of the question. Raising the flop and ignoring the sissy raise by person before you.. is iffy. Like I said, you have pretty much nothing and even if you do hit a K, it's still iffy. I lost with KQ too many times to be confident with it especially during these situations. But in the case that you do cbet, I would insta fold by a re-raise by the person who has position over you or continued aggression on the turn. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[corsakh]

I don't understand the question - you run bad?