pf decision w/AQos 4bet this? -- 50NL

[Kasane]

Table was more or less unknown except that it was 50+vpip when I joined a couple rounds ago. Real loosy-goosy from what I'd observed so far.

Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (6 handed) Full Tilt (http://www.flopturnriver.com/reviews/Online-Poker-FullTilt.php#converter) Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (http://www.flopturnriver.com) (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Hero ($50)
MP ($30.50)
CO ($3.60)
Button ($59.70)
SB ($63.20)
BB ($92.95)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with A/images/graemlins/heart.gif, Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
<font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $2</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">CO raises to $3.5</font>, Button calls $3.50, SB calls $3.25, BB calls $3, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $23</font>?...

Frankly, I didn't expect the betting to be reopened here, but I kinda forgot that when I bet $2 on the first go around that it was a raise of $1.5. It was important because, if I remember right, shorty had just lost his stack and they go all in on such a wide range here that I was truly expecting it. Then I thought that I probably like the fact that I would still like to be able to 4bet.

I almost never 4bet AQos, but this felt right...

[LT22]

lol std, just shove tho so nobody calls and then you don't know what the [censored] to do

[Nick C]

It seems all right, but it is going to suck if anyone comes along and you miss the flop. I mean, once you c-bet (if you do), you're going to be all-in.

Just calling really does seem like a decent alternative. If you just call, you are going to have a favorable SPR if you hit TPTK.

[whyherro]

yeah just jam and pick up the dead money.

[slush420]

the SPR will seem favorable, but there are bad implied odds happening here with all these players seeing a flop which could make a call very marginal. The cutoff better be a loose 3 better for this to be a 4 bet, but if he doesn't 3bet more than 8% of his hands a call here albeit marginal is probably the best play.

[Nick C]

[ QUOTE ]
the SPR will seem favorable, but there are bad implied odds happening here with all these players seeing a flop which could make a call very marginal. The cutoff better be a loose 3 better for this to be a 4 bet, but if he doesn't 3bet more than 8% of his hands a call here albeit marginal is probably the best play.

[/ QUOTE ]

CO just lost a big hand and his small 3-bet is a push. His range probably includes hands like 43s and K6o.

[Matt Flynn]

looks fine. might change your raise a little. as is you'll be betting $27 into a &gt;$54 pot (half pot) on the flop. if you raise to $18 you'd probably get the same effect and be betting $32 into $40-odd, a more credible bluff. but this is $50NL so no need to be subtle. you can also push, but you need some calls with weaker hands to justify pushing into that pot.

[bravos1]

[ QUOTE ]
looks fine. might change your raise a little. as is you'll be betting $27 into a &gt;$54 pot (half pot) on the flop. if you raise to $18 you'd probably get the same effect and be betting $32 into $40-odd, a more credible bluff. but this is $50NL so no need to be subtle. you can also push, but you need some calls with weaker hands to justify pushing into that pot.

[/ QUOTE ]

Matt,

Can you explain the bolded part a bit? If we jam and expect no callers, don't we like our chances against a SS'd CO that is stacking off here quite a bit?

Are you saying.. that if indeed we get calls when we jam, we will need some of them to be behind, else pushing is bad because either everyone folds or we get called only by better hands?

If we raise to $18, we're at the commitment threshold and basically jamming any flop (I still got some reading to do.. /images/graemlins/grin.gif)???

[Lostit]

I think the play here is fine. I doubt any of the villains is calling that bet here, ever, and if they do, I bet its a worse hand. Look at the play by person:

Hero: First to Act, he raises, fine, standard.
CO: He re-raises to $3.50, puttin himg all-in. He's almost irrelevant here.
Button: Calling as the third one in? Does AA, KK, QQ or AK do that? Especially on a "loosy-goosy" table, where you can almost expect additional callers due to the pot odds presented? This is either a set miner and/or just plain bad.
SB &amp; BB: More of the same reasoning as the button, except even more so.

I simply can't see AA,KK, QQ or AK from any of these, so I think the play is fine. I'm also happy taking down the approx. $15 pot with AQ preflop.

I'd don't like the push in this case because its a little obvious. I understand Matt Flynn's reasoning on the $18 bet here, but I think on these loosy tables, with a $15 pot already on board, I'm cutting it a little close to the calling standards of some of these guys. Once one calls, the rest fall almost like dominoes and I'm back to a community pot, for what will likely be my stack.

I think the overbet, but not all-in, is appropriate here as I really don't want to see a flop here.

[Zaid_Ahmed]

jamming is the best play, but calling is good to extract value when you flop a good hand.