Huge Downswing at NL50, Analyze these hands for me [Archive]

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SkeetyMcdoogle

10-27-2007, 12:51 AM

I'm doing something glaringly wrong I think, do any of you guys fold these? I have no stats on villains.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (6 handed) Poker Stars (http://www.flopturnriver.com/reviews/Online-Poker-PokerStars.php#converter) Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (http://www.flopturnriver.com) (Format: 2+2 Forums)

BB ($42.95)
UTG ($32.65)
MP ($46.70)
Hero ($45.95)
Button ($37.95)
SB ($27.25)

Preflop: Hero is CO with A/images/graemlins/heart.gif, A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
1 fold, MP raises to $1.5, Hero raises to $7.5, 3 folds, MP calls $6.

Flop: ($15.75) 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 3/images/graemlins/club.gif, 5/images/graemlins/spade.gif (2 players)
MP checks, Hero bets $12, MP calls $12.

Turn: ($39.75) 3/images/graemlins/heart.gif (2 players)
MP checks, Hero checks.

River: ($39.75) 9/images/graemlins/heart.gif (2 players)
MP bets $27.2 (All-In), Hero calls $26.45 (All-In).

Final Pot: $92.65

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (5 handed) Poker Stars (http://www.flopturnriver.com/reviews/Online-Poker-PokerStars.php#converter) Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (http://www.flopturnriver.com) (Format: 2+2 Forums)

UTG ($56.60)
MP ($121.65)
Hero ($51.25)
SB ($98.80)
BB ($52.30)

Preflop: Hero is Button with J/images/graemlins/spade.gif, J/images/graemlins/club.gif.
2 folds, Hero raises to $2, 1 fold, BB raises to $8, Hero raises to $24, BB calls $16.

Flop: ($48.25) 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif, K/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $27.25 (All-In), BB calls $27.25.

Turn: ($0) 3/images/graemlins/spade.gif (2 players, 1 all-in)

River: ($0) 3/images/graemlins/heart.gif (2 players, 1 all-in)

Final Pot: $102.75

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (4 handed) Poker Stars (http://www.flopturnriver.com/reviews/Online-Poker-PokerStars.php#converter) Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (http://www.flopturnriver.com) (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Hero ($59.90)
UTG ($68.65)
Button ($153.95)
SB ($32.80)

Preflop: Hero is BB with K/images/graemlins/spade.gif, J/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
UTG raises to $2, Button calls $2, 1 fold, Hero calls $1.50.

Flop: ($6.25) J/images/graemlins/club.gif, J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 7/images/graemlins/spade.gif (3 players)
Hero checks, UTG checks, Button bets $2.5, Hero calls $2.50, UTG folds.

Turn: ($11.25) 5/images/graemlins/club.gif (2 players)
Hero bets $6, Button raises to $15, Hero raises to $55.4, Button calls $40.40.

River: ($122.05) 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif (2 players)

Final Pot: $122.05

I obviously wouldnt be posting these if I had won them, but I still dont really see any obvious spots where I should have folded. Are these coolers or would you guys slow down somewhere in these hands?

Profish2285

10-27-2007, 12:53 AM

Hand 1: Bet the turn, not sure why you checked. Not folding river regardless though so whatever.
Hand 2: If youre going to go all in on any flop, then just shove pre flop. As played, check the turn.
Hand 3: If I donk turn, I am doing it to 3 bet all in. That is what you did, so nh. Painfully standard.

LT22

10-27-2007, 12:56 AM

hand 1 is fine, just never fold

hand 2 I hate the 4b unless he's been doing this a ton (you have position, use it)

hand 3 fine once u see the flop, although I might fold PF especially if UTG is tight. squeeze is also a very profitable play here

SkeetyMcdoogle

10-27-2007, 12:56 AM

Hand 1 I checked because I would love 88-JJ to think a whiffed AK and call a river shove. Is this terrible?

Hand 2 you shove $48 into a $10 pot?

kindergartencop

10-27-2007, 12:58 AM

im a nit but i fold the third hand pre, i dont think your b/3b turn is gettin called by worse unless button is a donk in third hand. first is def. fine. 2nd doesnt seem too bad, i already commented on it in your other thread.

Profish2285

10-27-2007, 12:59 AM

Hand 1: Its not terrible, I just usually dont do it because I figure I get paid off from those hands whether I bet the turn or river.
Hand 2: No, not usually, but thats the point I was trying to make, just didnt feel like typing it all out but oh well, might as well. I dont like 4 betting JJ pf almost ever. I need a very good reason to do so. I like seeing a flop once its 3 bet. However, if I was to 4 bet and told myself no matter what, I am not folding the flop, then just shove. I mean youre letting AK hit on the flop and stack you for free but just pushing any flop. The 4 bet puts in half your stack, but you dont have to put in the other half on bad boards. But again, this could all be avoided by not 4 betting JJ.

wooziephantom

10-27-2007, 01:16 AM

Hand 1: I think it's fine. The check on the turn is quite okay since not many river cards will scare YOU off.. But I probably would be inclined to push turn to extract value from a weak op like jj, TT, since there are a lot of cards that might scare him off. not saying he'll pay u off with those hands, but many cards that will close down action..So he called a three bet without proper odds for set value and hit, cooler

Second hand: This on the other hand I don't like much... Four bet jj only gets called by better hands, never ak as I think that is a push or fold in this situation. As played I guess u have to push whatever flop that comes, so much money in there and the K might be a scarecard for villain, but he's not folding many hands that have u beat here either.. In fact the only hands u beat here is air. interested in what he had here tho, can't see him flatting with kk, maybe with aces... I really don't know...

Third hand: Played fine, u will get paid of a lot by worse jacks here

Profish2285

10-27-2007, 01:21 AM

For people saying to fold pf in hand 3, note its 4 handed. So an utg is actually a CO raise.

SkeetyMcdoogle

10-27-2007, 01:25 AM

In the JJ hand, villain was extremely aggro (36/24/6) and had 3 bet my last two button raises.

Does this change anyones opinion, or do you still like the "call the 3-bet. C/R a non AK flop" line.

I think im fighting overaggression with more aggression and its not working

Xanta

10-27-2007, 01:27 AM

Great googly moogly bet the turn in hand 1 people don't fold overpairs ever in 3bet pots.

Hand 2, the 4bet is OKish if he's been playing back at you, I still kinda prefer to see a flop and let him cbet with jacks. Once he calls and the king flops, i'm c/fing all the way down, you beat zilch that he'll bet with. He ain't folding QQ either given the stack to pot ratio.

Hand 3 I lead the flop because I always lead the flop when were 2/3 handed and the board comes paired like this. Also, slowplaying on a paired board makes getting value tough tough tough later on in the hand. Turn play is alright, I mean he most often has a jack, here's hoping you beat it.

Profish2285

10-27-2007, 01:27 AM

The problem with 4 betting is that you narrow his range down to a point where youre more than likely behind if he calls. If your intention is to 4 bet and shove any flop, then just overbet shove pre flop. I mean once you get this flop, AK is ahead of you now too, so youre further behind his range. I really think that youre almost turn JJ into a bluff by doing this. If his 3 bet range is wide, then let him keep it wide and give you his chips on the flop. By 4 betting I am sure his range tightens up significantly if he calls you. With that being a given, youre then 4 betting hoping he folds, making your hand a bluff.

Xanta

10-27-2007, 01:29 AM

[ QUOTE ]
In the JJ hand, villain was extremely aggro (36/24/6) and had 3 bet my last two button raises.

Does this change anyones opinion, or do you still like the "call the 3-bet. C/R a non AK flop" line.

I think im fighting overaggression with more aggression and its not working

[/ QUOTE ]

Against this guy I prefer 4betting AK and AQ, but just calling and letting him fire with JJ. He may be 3betting wide but if you haven't 4bet him yet he's not gonna call with much worse than Jacks. Also, you're in position, makes the flop pretty easy to play.

NL Newbie

10-27-2007, 01:32 AM

Hand 1 - The only problem with checking is that you are IN POSITION and a SCARE CARD may hit the river meaning JJ now folds since Queen hits (or A or K etc).

Hand 2 - With no read, no idea hes 3betting light, i never reraise here. If i can call for set value i will, or to get fancy pot flop(float, bluff raise etc).

Hand 3 - Fold preflop. Rest is fine (QJ/JT etc).

Profish2285

10-27-2007, 01:34 AM

Hand 3- Everyone really folds KJs from the BB to an effective CO raise?

Xanta

10-27-2007, 01:43 AM

Preflop in hand 3 is fine 4handed.

critikal

10-27-2007, 02:00 AM

Hand 1 I usually bet like 10 on the turn. Splitting his money into two streets commits him easy and your hand is obviously better than his range, if you lost then that just sucks.

Hand 2 I usually don't 4bet JJ pf. You're in position so there's no reason to push a very marginal pf edge.

Hand 3 is good.