50NL: What's the best way to get a stack in here?

[RunDownHouse]

Villain is a multitable TAG, running something like 22/15 blah blah.

I chose this line because I don't expect too many calls on the flop. Once he does call, I narrow his hand to good jacks, bigger pairs, and flush draws. I expect it to be something like AJ/KJ most of the time because I think big pairs are more likely to repop the flop. Those that don't are usually trying to avoid a flush on the turn before getting it in, right?

So I expect a shove most of the time on the turn and at least a call almost always. Later, thinking about it, I wondered if I shouldn't just check over to him, as those hands will 100% bet for protection, FD's will semibluff at least some of the time, and then I can c/r ai and he's more or less committed with all of it. The obvious danger there being he takes the free card and puts me to a decision on about half of the river cards. Something like AK/images/graemlins/heart.gif or AK/images/graemlins/club.gif would most likely check behind, but always call a bet and sometimes shove over top, right?

How's my reasoning and what line do you guys take? Bet sizing ok (flop c/r on the small side, but I'd raise about that amount with AJ or a set)?

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (6 handed) Poker Stars (http://www.flopturnriver.com/reviews/Online-Poker-PokerStars.php#converter) Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (http://www.flopturnriver.com) (Format: 2+2 Forums)

saw flop|<font color="#C00000">saw showdown</font>

MP ($52.45)
CO ($50.05)
Button ($52.45)
SB ($21.10)
Hero ($49.25)
UTG ($17.95)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 5/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
UTG calls $0.50, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Button raises to $1.5</font>, SB calls $1.25, Hero calls $1, UTG folds.

Flop: ($5) 7/images/graemlins/club.gif, J/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 4/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
SB checks, Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">Button bets $2.5</font>, SB folds, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $7.5</font>, Button calls $5.

Turn: ($20) 8/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $13</font>...

[Profish2285]

I hate pf. If for some reason you want to play this hand, altho there really arent any good reasons for doing so, then at least 3 bet. There arent alot of flops youre gonna enjoy seeing. As played I guess I like 15 on the turn, and a shove on the river.

[RunDownHouse]

I don't think pf play is a big enough mistake - if at all, getting 4.5:1 is good enough for a wide range - to warrant much discussion, so can we stick to postflop?

[Profish2285]

Okay, well that thinking is wrong, it a huge mistake. One mistake leads to another. Youre getting 4.5:1 but youre not going to get to the river many of the times when your hand is good. By that I mean if he has AK, and the flop comes QJ5, youre calling to the river when it blanks out?

[STARSCREAM.]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't think pf play is a big enough mistake - if at all, getting 4.5:1 is good enough for a wide range - to warrant much discussion, so can we stick to postflop?

[/ QUOTE ]

You're right, preflop really shouldn't have much discussion, as it is a super standard fold, this is never a call.

As for the flop, a CR is fine here, betting 14-16 on the turn and getting it in if a heart doesn't hit the river would be my standard.

[Shattered]

Yeah, preflop is gross and stuff. Moving on.
I like postflop. I do bet more on the turn here (16+) so stacks get in easier even if a heart falls on the river. And I *am* shoving, it's close to impossible that villain has a flush draw after he calls turn.

[doppelganger]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't think pf play is a big enough mistake - if at all, getting 4.5:1 is good enough for a wide range - to warrant much discussion, so can we stick to postflop?

[/ QUOTE ]


PF odds are more important at minbet than NL, so I think that's your old limit roots showing. I agree w/ the others that calling here is a pretty big leak, but whatever.

As played I'd make the turn bet a bit bigger, as he clearly thinks his hand is good on the flop and your hand is well disguised. I'd say he has an overpair or a strong J and has put you squarely on a flush draw. Plus, the bigger you can get the pot now, the more chance you have of getting the rest in on the river if a scary heart or club falls.

[argy1182]

Despite rationalizations, preflop play here shows -EV and DOES have a large impact on play later in the hand. There is no distinct line between pre and postflop play.

As played, a small increase in the turn bet will increase profit, but I'd keep it less than the current pot regardless. The call on the flop demonstrates a high level of commitment on the villain's behalf and, unless that scary flush card falls, he will likely commit. In this case, the turn card did not pose much of a perceived threat so you are clear to fire away.