Worst hand i've played in a while, 2 pair in a 3bet pot, need help.

[STARSCREAM.]

I'll just give an auto disclaimer that I know I played this hand like a donk. Now that that is in the open, how would you have better played it?

Villian seems pretty aggro, had a high attn to steal blinds, probably 35+, I don't remember exactly at this time. I was running standard TAG, although I hadn't been at the table very long (stats on villian were datamined).

I thought about betting the flop, but figured I didn't really get value from any hands if I did, as it seems like QQ and under would fold, and only AJ and under would give me action, and the odds of him having AJ or worse seemed kinda unlikely.

Once I hit the 2 pair on the turn I really felt lost, as i'm now losing to QQ as well as AK, KK and AA.

Any help is appreciated here, as this is a rare type of situation that I don't often find myself in.

Full Tilt Poker, $0.25/$0.50 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 6 Players
LegoPoker (http://www.legopoker.com)Hand History Converter (http://www.legopoker.com/hh)

BTN: $13.90
SB: $187.90
Hero (BB): $70.70
UTG: $43
MP: $52.15
CO: $50.45

Pre-Flop: Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif A/images/graemlins/heart.gif dealt to Hero (BB)
2 folds, <font color="red">CO raises to $1.75</font>, BTN folds, <font color="red">Hero raises to $6.25</font>, CO calls $4.50

Flop: ($12.75) K/images/graemlins/spade.gif A/images/graemlins/club.gif 9/images/graemlins/club.gif (2 Players)
Hero checks, CO checks

Turn: ($12.75) Q/images/graemlins/club.gif (2 Players)
Hero checks, <font color="red">CO bets $10</font>, Hero calls $10

River: ($32.75) 2/images/graemlins/heart.gif (2 Players)
Hero checks, <font color="red">CO bets $25</font>

[Shattered]

I don't think your play until the turn is that bad, really, as a flop bet folds out anything worse. Once you get to the turn, though, a whole bunch of draws are out there and you definitely need to bet to protect. At least check-raise all in when he pots it.
As played river is tough; it really looks like he's betting for value. You've underrepped your hand so I probably just say "[censored] it, I have two pair in a 3-bet pot" and call. Keep in mind that I'm not sure about that play and it might be a leak, as I can't see what we're beating besides a bluff.

[Profish2285]

Definitely bet this flop, Im not sure what flop youre waiting for if youre not betting this one. Assuming you bet the flop, then you can bet the turn. If he raises then you can pretty much comfortably fold as villain wont be doing this with worse very often at all. If he calls, then you can either c/c the river or b/f there depending on what you think. As played I guess the river is a fold but I would have never gotten there this way.

[cooker3]

[ QUOTE ]
Once you get to the turn, though, a whole bunch of draws are out there and you definitely need to bet to protect. At least check-raise all in when he pots it.


[/ QUOTE ]

Ok so every draw hits and you think he should crai?

[Profish2285]

Yea Im not so sure about that crai on the turn either to be honest. Youre praying K9 and A9 call, everything else that calls has you in some bad shape.

[Shattered]

[ QUOTE ]
Ok so every draw hits and you think he should crai?

[/ QUOTE ]

There are no draws on this flop that fit villain's 3-bet calling range unless for some reason you're putting hands like KJs or JTs into it. I think letting a card peel on the flop is best to underrep your hand a bit, you're WA/WB against villain's reasonable range. I'm torn between check/calling or check/raising in the event that he bets, but I think they're both better than c-betting the flop.

Definitely bet turn. I agree that CRAI is bad, but once you've checked turn it's better than folding or calling.

[Profish2285]

DONT check the flop ever. I dont even want to hear the reasoning for it, you 3 bet AQ pf, you hit your ace on a drawy board and you check. There is no justification for it. Youre doing levels of thought here that villain is almost definitely not doing, so just play ABC. You hit, you bet, that simple. You dont hit, you probably still c-bet. If you will c-bet with air here, then you better c-bet with tpgk as well.

[STARSCREAM.]

And your response to a shove?

Edit: a shove on the flop that is, after cbetting.

[Profish2285]

If he seems overaggro then I call, if he seems aggro but not an idiot I could probably find a fold. If he shoves what are you looking at that does this with worse? I guess AJ, the rare flush draw, or air. More than likely, its top two or a set though. I dont check because I am afraid he will shove on me when I bet. I bet if I think there is value in it and/or I am protecting. Both of which betting accomplishes on this flop.

[STARSCREAM.]

What does he call with that you beat on this flop?

In my experiences, QQ and JJ are going to lay down here too often to make betting this flop profitable. Just an A high flop, that's fine, but AK high and people generally don't put in another dime with essentially an underpair to the board.

[Shattered]

[ QUOTE ]
DONT check the flop ever. I dont even want to hear the reasoning for it, you 3 bet AQ pf, you hit your ace on a drawy board and you check. There is no justification for it. Youre doing levels of thought here that villain is almost definitely not doing, so just play ABC. You hit, you bet, that simple. You dont hit, you probably still c-bet. If you will c-bet with air here, then you better c-bet with tpgk as well.

[/ QUOTE ]

Even a dumb villain realizes his QQ is no good, and that his AK is. There's no way villain calls with worse or folds better and there are no real draws. There is no reason to bet this flop besides image reasons. This isn't multi-level thinking, this is level 1 thinking.
(All this is assuming villain isn't a donk. If he's bad enough to pay you off with AJ or is calling preflop with stuff like KJ, by all means bet).

[Profish2285]

Against an unknown this is a bet. I am not sold that QQ or JJ doesnt give one street of action. I am not willing to give random flush draws free odds, and I dont want to put myself in very difficult situations I could easily avoid.

[STARSCREAM.]

A FD will be such a small part of his range here that I don't feel the need to proctect against it as much as if it were a 2bet pot.

And I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree about an unknown calling a flop bet with QQ or JJ on this board.

[Shattered]

This is a 3-bet pot, there are no random flush draws if the read is correct that villain is decent, positionally aware, and aggressive. He'd also have to be completely terrible to give action with QQ and JJ on an AKx board.
If you don't have a read that villain is terrible, betting this flop has no value save for image reasons. Betting with TPTK is standard: this is where deviating from the standard is +EV.

[Profish2285]

The problem with checking here is that you have no idea what to do on this turn. What do you do when a K hits the turn and he bets or raises you? What do you do when a J falls and he bets or raises you? Even if QQ or JJ does not call a flop bet, why are you letting him draw for free? Are you that confident a flop check will lead to him calling a turn bet with either of those hands?

[STARSCREAM.]

Checking the flop will make the villian much more confident about his JJ/QQ, to the point where yes, I strongly believe it will make him much more inclined to call a bet on the turn.

Having a K fall on the turn would make this hand very easy to play, as it's now less likely he has AA or KK and folding to a turn raise is very easy.

If a J falls I probably check again and fold to a bet if it's more than 3/5ths the size of the pot and fold to most river bets.

The reason for letting him draw for free (if that's really what we'll call it since drawing to 2 outs is hardly drawing) is because: We're OOP, he won't call with a lot of his preflop range on the flop, and it underreps our hand to get value from those other hands (like previously stated).

Random draws and weird hands that he'll call with preflop make up such a tiny % of an unknowns range that I don't think it should be strongly factored into your flop decision.

[Shattered]

If a K hits the turn, you bet/fold. If a J falls, you bet/fold. If a ten falls, you bet/fold. If anything but an ace falls, you bet/fold. I'm okay letting my opponent draw to 1 or 2 outs.

To answer your last question, no, I'm not confident checking will draw my opponent into calling with a pocket pair, but they'll definitely call a ton more than they would on the flop. The reward outweighs the risk by a huge amount here.

[Profish2285]

If you think villain wont call with QQ/JJ on flop, then he still most likely will not call with those on turn. The flop doesnt have one overcard to those pairs, it has two. You could be value betting a King here on this turn and still be ahead of villain obviously. I use the term drawing for more than just the flush draw because even though its two outs, its a free two outs. Like I said, since I am sure he wont call turn if he wouldnt call flop, then youre giving him a chance to catch for free, and if he doesnt, then he can fold comfortably like he would have anyway.

[Shattered]

Eh. As a general rule checking with TPTK underreps your hand a bunch, and you'll get called down lighter on later streets if no scare cards come. For example, put yourself in villain's shoes: You're instamucking QQ on that flop, but you might be willing to put in one bet in with it on the turn. Sure, it's against your better judgment and not the action you would likely take, but it's certainly much more enticing after villain (hero) has shown a bit of weakness on a scary looking flop.

[Profish2285]

No, I would still fold. It would look like hero has a K or a slowplayed set or top two. If there was just an A on board then I guess there is more of a justification for this move, but not an A and K.

[STARSCREAM.]

[ QUOTE ]
No, I would still fold. It would look like hero has a K or a slowplayed set or top two. If there was just an A on board then I guess there is more of a justification for this move, but not an A and K.

[/ QUOTE ]

Just because you have enough sense to a fold to a line like that, certainly does not mean that a 50NL unknown would.

[Profish2285]

I retract my original statement about villain calling with QQ or JJ. I dont think they will on any street with both the A and the K. I am sure I have more sense than alot of the 50 NL world, but unless I know villain is an idiot, he will be scared of both the overcards.

[STARSCREAM.]

Being scared and letting go of that pretty pocket pair are two completly different things to a bad player.

[Profish2285]

This just seems very optimistic at best to me.

[Shattered]

So that, again, means that your flop bet is only getting called with AQ+ (unless he called you PF with AJ, and for the sake of this argument I'll say he didn't). This is classic WA/WB where villain knows exactly where he's at and is a spot where you should not bet.
A turn bet is necessary simply for protection: you have top two on a 3-flush 3-straight board in a 3-bet pot, and you're still folding to a raise.

[Profish2285]

When the Q or J come out and you stack off to that two outer that you werent worried about, you might start to re think this. I dont bet to protect against a two outer, but this is a clear value bet. If you disagree with that statement,then I am unsure why you 3 bet pf at all.

[ronitonline]

Looks like villian has QQ.
He can't assume you have AA/KK anymore so his turn and river bets make sense.
Regardless u have the best hand here probably zip-zero percent of the time

[Profish2285]

This is actually bothering me quite a bit that I really think about it. Why even 3-bet with a hand like this if youre not content with tpgk on this flop? AQ is a hand where you hit one pair and its usually good against typical villain ranges. If youre checking this flop, then which ones will you c-bet? Will you c-bet with air? How about AT3 with two clubs? Or AJ3 with two clubs? Are you soley waiting for A49 and boards very similar to that?

[ronitonline]

Profish, just because you are ahead of villians raising range doesnt mean you are equally ahead of his 3-bet calling range.
Saying when you hit a pair with AQ in a 3bet pot you are "content" is basically telling OP to lose money.

[ronitonline]

fwiw I like your turn call, but you have have have to dumb this river imo.

[Profish2285]

So then if you get called after 3 betting AQ pf, what is your default line when hitting top pair? It doesnt make much sense to go from being aggro with AQ pf, to then being passive once you hit. Im not saying Im "content" when I hit a pair, it obviously differs in every situation. Like, if you bet the flop, you should fold to a raise. I am not saying "zomg, we have a pair aarrrrr in." But checking here does not seem correct.

[ronitonline]

AKQ in a 3bet pot = your range should be hit.
If villian is not scared of your range, he is either a total [censored] (you can get his money later) or he has a huge hand (this is probably the one).
So i think its an easy dump.
If villian bluffs there hes just dumb, and we'll get his money later

[Profish2285]

I agree turn is a fold, im not arguing that. I am talking about the flop check.

[Tucanjo]

I would c-bet and fold to a raise on flop, but the way it was played I'd just fold to that turn bet, even if I have 2 pair and is a 3-bet pot because he is probably not doing this with JJ or TT (maybe with a club, but this would be kinda donkish), this is a fold or shove situation (and I am probably never shoving this turn because the only hands that will call are the hands that beat me) because most of the times on river it is probably gonna happen exactly what happened, he will bet again and you will have to fold, you will lose your $10 and your 2 pair will be like nothing, so folding looks weak and nit, but saves you $10 almost all the times.

[ronitonline]

Flop check isn't too bad cause we keep pot small and we probably get one bet out of QQ/JJ that put us on a smaller pair.

[bingrich]

I agree w/ Profish. Bet this flop please. Maybe if we were in position we can play differently. I don't see how we 3 bet preflop and then shut down for the whole hand after hitting the flop. If this is how we play 3 bet pots let's smooth call or fold the hand preflop cause it looks like we're only happy if villain folds preflop.

[STARSCREAM.]

Cold calling here or even folding preflop vs a villian who has an attn to steal of 35% who's running with a vpip of anything over 15 is pretty much unnacceptable.

The reason why this hand is interesting is because of the exact nature of this flop. Obviously we will be put in far less tricky situations a majority of every flop we encounter. But the A, K, and then Q on the turn is what I felt made this hand particularly interesting.

This isn't a situation of "being aggro on one street and being passive on the next", this is a situation of doing what we think will make us the most money in the long run, and if going from aggro to passive is necessary to do so, than it will be done.

3betting preflop = checking this flop in terms of your equity vs villians range/highest EV play. Despite the opposite nature of both plays.

[ronitonline]

we didnt "shutdown", just happend that the turn was a horrible card.
if we bet that flop and villian calls, and that turn comes now what? now we feel even more confident and probably go broke to AK/QQ/KK

[ronitonline]

[ QUOTE ]
Cold calling here or even folding preflop vs a villian who has an attn to steal of 35% who's running with a vpip of anything over 15 is pretty much unnacceptable.

The reason why this hand is interesting is because of the exact nature of this flop. Obviously we will be put in far less tricky situations a majority of every flop we encounter. But the A, K, and then Q on the turn is what I felt made this hand particularly interesting.

This isn't a situation of "being aggro on one street and being passive on the next", this is a situation of doing what we think will make us the most money in the long run, and if going from aggro to passive is necessary to do so, than it will be done.

3betting preflop = checking this flop in terms of your equity vs villians range/highest EV play. Despite the opposite nature of both plays.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree.

[bingrich]

I think I need more info on villain. Even though I understand we can extract more value from worse hands w/ OP's line, depending on how tight and aggro the villain is I think we can be bet off the best hand. If villain is tight and not aggro but steals blinds a lot then I can understand this line. So STARS and ron both play the hand the same way as OP?

[STARSCREAM.]

[ QUOTE ]
So STARS and ron both play the hand the same way as OP?

[/ QUOTE ]

Considering I am the OP, I would say so /images/graemlins/tongue.gif despite my post title, after discussing the hand, I feel a lot better about the hand in general.

Not as a disrespect to those who posted here whom of which I didn't agree with, I appreciate your opinions as well.

[bingrich]

Why do you feel so bad about the hand then if this is a normal part of your game?

[bingrich]

ok, nm

[orange]

PF standard, I don't really think that anything else can be an option.

Bet the flop.

You aren't going to get any more value from QQ/JJ. Those hands almost always check behind and give up to any resistance. Sure, you'll sometimes find the whackos who go crazy postflop as a bluff, but meh.

There is still value to gain with a flop bet- plenty of worse hands call. Checking and possibly c/r-ing AI is not a bad idea as well if he's super aggro.

So, in summary, bet the flop. Given that you didn't, you are now forced to play a guessing game on villan's range OOP in a rr-ed pot, that isn't fun. Narrowing a looser villan's range strictly to premiums is laughable. After the flop check, I would lead this turn a ton, hoping to gain value from lesser hands/draws/etc. Given that you didn't bet the turn...

I would probably c/c this river. It's possible villan is still betting many hands here. Yeah, it's also possible he's taking us to valuetown, but I can't fold this hand given villan description/given action thus far.

[bingrich]

Obviously I agree with orange. As I said in my first post and orange repeated, one of the big reasons to lead out at this flop is being oop. Once we check we're in an oop guessing game against a loose villain and more prone to making a mistake.

I understand we didn't "shutdown" but I think it's understandable that depending on the villain, our line could be perceived as weak/scared of the board. Because of this we can be switched from "extraction" mode to "crying call" mode as orange is saying. We want worse hands to give us action, but when they show more strength than we're comfortable with then we're stuck. If we don't show strength postflop, can we really be sure we're beat when villain bets? But when we checked multiple times didn't we want action from worse hands anyway? This seems like a really tough spot to put oneself in. Of course it depends on how bluff happy villain is.

Personally, my game isn't good enough at this point to do this juggling act. I sincerely give you props if you can do this consistently.

[slush420]

Board: Ks Ac 9c
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 60.745% 54.45% 06.29% 26955 3114.00 { AhQd }
Hand 1: 39.255% 32.96% 06.29% 16317 3114.00 { 77+, AJs+, KQs, AQo+ }

this is why you bet the flop. you are likely ahead and it's time to protect now. I think this would be a reasonable range for villain calling a 3bet preflop esp if he's a frequent stealer and faces 3 bets often.

[Profish2285]

Im glad Im not the only one who thinks betting this flop is standard.

[Baintz]

Yeah, I'm betting this flop too as wer're OOP and I think his pf calling range is wider than you suggest. I see what I assume to be standard TAGS calling pre w JTs, 87s etc a lot.

[Somnius]

[ QUOTE ]
Im glad Im not the only one who thinks betting this flop is standard.

[/ QUOTE ]

Definately agree.

Doesn't matter what I had on this flop after 3 betting preflop, this is a beautiful board, I'd gladly c-bet, the fact that you hit, you should be very eager to not only c-bet, but get a call, tons of calling hands in his range, not withstanding AT, AJ, KJ, KQ, midpairs etc that will call the flop to see what you do on the turn since they have position and the pot is big... you have to bet this.

[STARSCREAM.]

Since nobody followed it up with a plan for the rest of the hand, what do you do if he shoves/raises your flop cbet?

What if he calls and the turn is a: Q, J, or a brick?

[Somnius]

Depends on villain, you said he's pretty aggro, not sure how aggro you mean though.

If you bet this flop and he pushes, I fold unless I have a good read on him to think otherwise.

If he calls flop and this turn comes, I fire again, if he minraises+, I fold unless I have a reason not to based on player.

If the turn was a J, or a brick, same applies, I think this has to be double barreled and I wouldn't really be scared of him having the flush, in fact I see it as another reason for us to keep aggroing here. If a complete brick fell that did not straighten etc, then I'd have to reassess but again unless he's really aggro, I'd still probably fold.

If he calls turn and that river falls, I'd most likely bet again, considering he's been pretty docile, his calling range is pretty big, again generally, don't know this guy specifically.

[STARSCREAM.]

[ QUOTE ]
don't know this guy specifically.

[/ QUOTE ]

Neither do I, but from what I could tell, it seemed like he was pretty aggressive in late position preflop. Havn't been at the table long enough with him to see if he's capable of anything fancy post flop however.

[Somnius]

then I would play it as mentioned.

[Shattered]

[ QUOTE ]
There is still value to gain with a flop bet- plenty of worse hands call. Checking and possibly c/r-ing AI is not a bad idea as well if he's super aggro.

[/ QUOTE ]

What exactly are you hoping will pay you off? AJ? KQ? They have 2 or 3 outs to improve and are much more likely to pay you off on a delayed c-bet than with a c-bet. When you bet, you're putting money in with the bottom of your range (assuming you're not a frequent 3-bettor). I don't understand how this isn't way ahead/way behind.


[ QUOTE ]
equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 60.745% 54.45% 06.29% 26955 3114.00 { AhQd }
Hand 1: 39.255% 32.96% 06.29% 16317 3114.00 { 77+, AJs+, KQs, AQo+ }
this is why you bet the flop. you are likely ahead and it's time to protect now. I think this would be a reasonable range for villain calling a 3bet preflop esp if he's a frequent stealer and faces 3 bets often.

[/ QUOTE ]

If we split that up into hands that beat us and hands we beat...

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 02.303% 02.15% 00.15% 213 15.00 { AhQd }
Hand 1: 97.697% 97.55% 00.15% 9657 15.00 { KK+, AKs, AKo }

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 80.426% 79.85% 00.58% 25295 184.00 { AhQd }
Hand 1: 19.574% 18.99% 00.58% 6017 184.00 { QQ-77, AJs }

I don't see how you can bet here. Sure, AJs is giving you a bet and KQs conceivably might, but if they're calling a flop bet they're calling a turn bet after you check the flop. If they bet the flop, call one bet and fold to further aggression as they won't be going crazy with less than AK.

I also think that QQ and worse sometimes calls a bet on the turn if villain's not completely solid, but never calls it on the flop but even without that qualification I think a flop check works best here.

[Somnius]

You're giving villain way too much credit...I don't think people play with x-ray knowledge of your whole cards...unless of course you're playing at Absolute...

Seriously though, you just reraised preflop from the blinds...that doesn't mean that anyone who calls you on the flop now has the range that beats you....c-betting is usually a must, when you reraise and not only get a big flop, but actually hit a hand, you wanna cbet this no questions asked. Many...many....many people will call this flop with many...many....many hands in their preflop r/c hand range. Generally, people know that most will cbet no matter what, so they call a flop, and if the aggression continues, they fold worse hands, or even better, call with worse hands...you can't simply put the villain on the range that beats you if they call...and then use that as an excuse to not bet...thereby basically giving them the pot because anyone with any sense will try to take you off the hand then, you may as well take the 3bet amount preflop and just give it to them and not waste time playing the hand.

EDIT: Also, obviously, there are draws out there, their calling range is now that much bigger...

[Profish2285]

Again, if you are not going to c-bet this flop, fearing this hit villains range better than you, then do not 3 bet pre flop. Seeing as how a 3 bet pre flop is extremely standard here, then its obvious that you have to bet the flop. Dont be afraid because someone called your 3 bet. There have been countless times I 3 bet, missed the flop completely, c-bet and took it down. It just goes to show you that people call 3 bets lighter than you think. You dont have to assume villain has TT+ and AK if he calls you pre flop.

[Shattered]

Somnius, your post is silly. Villain doesn't have a magical knowledge of what your cards are, but after you 3-bet OoP and lead out again on the flop he's not calling on an AKx flop without having a strong hand.

[ QUOTE ]
You can't simply put the villain on the range that beats you if they call... and then use that as an excuse not to bet?

[/ QUOTE ]

Um, why not? That sounds absurd, why would I ever bet into someone that only calls when he has me beat? This seems like an example of level 0 thinking of "I have a hand, bet bet!"

[ QUOTE ]
Many...many....many people will call this flop with many...many....many hands in their preflop r/c hand range.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you propose a range then I might be able to see where you're coming from but as is I'm just going to dismiss that as ridiculous. And again, there are no draws that fit his range.


I'm willing to accept any flaws in my logic (for example, it hinges on villain being a decent TAG which the evidence doesn't necessarily support) but to repeatedly say "You have to bet, you have TPTK and there are draws out there!" is a waste of time.

Profish, I would definitely bet this flop with 55 or something: That's not the point here. You're trying to extract value when you're ahead and lose the least when you're behind. Assuming villain is a decent TAG, you do have to assume he is calling with some kind of hand and can put you on AJs/KQs+ or pocket pairs when you 3-bet PF. If you think villain is a donk, then by all means bet, but against a reasonable range I think he rarely calls a flop bet with worse.

[Somnius]

I figured you would be able to extract the answers to these questions yourself from my posts, instead you take them at superficial value and deem them first level thinking, that's fine, I'd indulge in really breaking down for you what I mean so even you can understand it, and perhaps help you understand why your thinking here is the lesser, but when you're gonna be a prick about it, then that's fine, enjoy your "superior" poker skill and knowledge.

[Shattered]

I'm not claiming in any sense to have superior poker skills, which is why I'm still asking about this hand when far better players than me have said simply to c-bet. I said your post wasn't particularly useful because I already addressed all your points and the logic behind it appears to be 1st level thinking of "I have a hand, I bet." If there was something deeper in your post I apologize as I wasn't able to see it, but even rereading your post I still can't see much in it.

[wingchunflush]

I would lead the flop, or atleast c/r the turn once the scare card hits.

[Somnius]

I understand that...not only was that post you're referring to not the only one I included in this thread, but, I also read all replies to a thread before I post, and, if I am going to chyme in, it's to try to add something, or present another way of looking at things, which was the case here. Others had given some nice, and in my books accurate ranges, as well as other sound advice that you were still hesitant in accepting, so there is no point of me simply repeating them, instead...I tried to say it in another way because you were still not convinced betting was best and that's fine, I was merely trying to help. Taking that reply of mine at first glance, perhaps it can be interpreted as "first level thinking"...but if you take it in accordance with the other replies here, you would see it's just another piece of the puzzle that is coming together to create a certain logical conclusion...in any case, good luck to you.

[maciczka]

I didn't read all of that, but someone is saying that You should check that flop - great advice by him, let me play with You smartguy 10000 hands, will see how much I will earn, for You just checking that flop.