BB special - trips, but sb c/r...what

[Profish2285]

Can I possibly fold this against unknowns or what?

Full Tilt Poker, $0.10/$0.25 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 6 Players
LegoPoker (http://www.legopoker.com)Hand History Converter (http://www.legopoker.com/hh)

Hero (BB): $25.35
UTG: $22.90
MP: $28.55
CO: $31.95
BTN: $24.65
SB: $15.70

Pre-Flop: 2/images/graemlins/spade.gif 3/images/graemlins/spade.gif dealt to Hero (BB)
UTG calls $0.25, MP calls $0.25, 2 folds, SB calls $0.15, Hero checks

Flop: ($1) 3/images/graemlins/heart.gif 3/images/graemlins/diamond.gif T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (4 Players)
SB checks, <font color="red">Hero bets $1</font>, UTG folds, <font color="red">MP raises to $3.20</font>, <font color="red">SB raises to $5.40</font>, <font color="red">Hero.... </font>

[Profish2285]

No one has any advice for this hand?

[z28dreams]

Sick spot... any reads?

My thoughts:

It's a limped pot, which is a bad thing because that rules out a lot of overpairs we're ahead of (JJ-AA). I think even bad passive villains will raise with big pockets when there are 3 people involved preflop.

So now, the flop.

Let's start with MP: His range is probably something like 44-99, A3s, and a lot of ten combos (T8,T9,JT,QT,KT maybe).

SB is obviously the scariest here though. He also limped preflop, and then 3-bets the flop. What hands do this? Also, let's note that it's a small raise, not a shove.

I really have a hard time seeing someone with a draw or just a ten 3betting here. Even pair+flush draw combos aren't possible (KTs can't happen,K3s can't happen, etc.)

I think SB's range here is very very narrow, unless you have specific notes that he's a maniac and will try to get it in here with just a ten. SB likely has something like A3 or 43.

I say fold after thinking about it... but not sure I could lay it down on the table.

[Profish2285]

Yea I mean, he just check raised two people and min check raised at that. I think that shows unbelievable strength but if he ever shows a ten or diamond draw here I look like an idiot. I think its a fold the more thought I give but I am still really unsure TBH.

[ZingZhang]

*Grunch* Surely when it comes down to it, worrying about a marginal spot like this is kinda irrelevant as it will come up infrequently. Much better to focus on many, many other areas of the game imo. Is bottom trips multiway in an unraised pot really where you want to be getting involved and putting a lot of chips in vs unknowns? Just fold it and move on to the next hand, I think this one's a loser in the long run.

[wingchunflush]

I am not folding here. too often its a flush draw or a Ten

[Profish2285]

You think its ever a flush draw or a ten after he min c/r two people?

[wingchunflush]

Yes, we dont know who this guy is. He might think JJ is golden. a tricky play over pair is part of his range here as well IMO

[kurto]

I guess I'll be the one guy that disagree with most everyone else.

Fold... to do otherwise suggests you have to believe they're both complete idiots and both bluffing.

We're hoping one thinks his overpair is good here and the other thinks his flush draw is better?

Odds are much better then not that one of them has the case 3 or two 10s.

[Profish2285]

See thats what I thought after the hand took place. I feel like I am being very optimistic here making this call. Like you said, one of them has to be on a draw, the other has to have a T or an overpair. While MP can easily hold a draw or the ten, once the sb min c/r us both, putting in the third bet on the flop, can it really ever be anything but trips? I really dont think many unknowns are this much of maniacs to pull a move like this with anything less than trips. But this was after I gave this hand alot of thought, and I guess its different in a vacuum.

[wingchunflush]

WHo doesnt re raise with TT pf here, I think it might be the case 3, most likely A3 but its a cooler if he has it.

[kurto]

[ QUOTE ]
WHo doesnt re raise with TT pf here, I think it might be the case 3, most likely A3 but its a cooler if he has it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ummmm... haven't you noticed at the $25 tables that there are hundreds of players with stats like 50/0/3 or 33/1/.5? Those players often won't raise a pair of 10s.

[wingchunflush]

I guess I am being stubborn here but I am not folding this hand. Anyone else of the same mind?

[kurto]

I was discussing this hand with a friend. I'm curious if you made it past the flop... did you get results?

[Profish2285]

Yea I have results and all, but I feel like the hand was played incorrectly on my part, results or not.