ATs v LAG - 50NL

[TiltedSkillz]

Little history. LAG has position on me and has 3-bet me PF 5 times in 50 hands. His stats are 35/25/4. Often I'll change tables (lag on left = bad) but one to HIS left was a huge, huge donkey and the table overall had 15 buyins in cash on it.

Hand previously, he 3-bet me and I called with a middle pair. Flop was broadway and I check/folded to his 3/4 PSB on the flop. I haven't shown down a loser and am 17/15/1.5 through only 50 hands at this table.

Yes, fold PF is probably a very good option with a hand like ATs facing a 3-bet OOP -- I didn't this time. Might have been a tilty decision -- I'm not playing overly well right now. Help me play the rest of the hand.

Full Tilt Poker, $0.25/$0.50 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 6 Players
LegoPoker (http://www.legopoker.com)Hand History Converter (http://www.legopoker.com/hh)

SB: $117.30
BB: $210.20
UTG: $130
MP: $239.55
Hero (CO): $53.80
BTN: $65.80

Pre-Flop: A/images/graemlins/spade.gif T/images/graemlins/spade.gif dealt to Hero (CO)
2 folds, <font color="red">Hero raises to $1.75</font>, <font color="red">BTN raises to $6</font>, 2 folds, Hero calls $4.25

Flop: ($12.75) T/images/graemlins/heart.gif 6/images/graemlins/spade.gif 2/images/graemlins/heart.gif (2 Players)
Hero checks, <font color="red">BTN bets $9</font>, Hero calls $9

Turn: ($30.75) 2/images/graemlins/club.gif (2 Players)
Hero checks, <font color="red">BTN bets $15</font>

[members_only]

I think a shove would be good in this spot. You have extracted the max from bluffs/hands you are beating, now drop the hammer. If you don't want to do that, then... like you said, fold pre-flop. This guy isn't going to give up and let you have your cheap showdwon.

[bored]

When you go up against a LAG w/ a marginal hand like this and flop good, you have to be ready to play for stacks.

CRAI the turn. You aren't sad if the hand ends now.

[oh well...]

I do not like this preflop play one bit. Your out of position w/ hand that doesn't really play well. You've stated that he's abusing 3bets so why not 4bet him and most likely take the hand down right there. As played CRAI on the turn doesn't give you much FE. He only has to call 25 to win 85, thus can make the right play by calling w/ weak holdings. Just 4bet PF, clearly best IMO.

[bored]

[ QUOTE ]
Just 4bet PF, clearly best IMO.

[/ QUOTE ]

Spew IMO

[Milky]

[ QUOTE ]
I do not like this preflop play one bit. Your out of position w/ hand that doesn't really play well. You've stated that he's abusing 3bets so why not 4bet him and most likely take the hand down right there. As played CRAI on the turn doesn't give you much FE. He only has to call 25 to win 85, thus can make the right play by calling w/ weak holdings. Just 4bet PF, clearly best IMO.

[/ QUOTE ]

If I'm going to 4bet a LAG that has position on me I want to do it with a better hand than ATs. I would just fold to his 3bet.

[Speedlimits]

4bet this pf if he's been crazy active. make it 2 1/2 times and call a shove.

As played call him down.

[Speedlimits]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Just 4bet PF, clearly best IMO.

[/ QUOTE ]

Spew IMO

[/ QUOTE ]

If he's been active it's definitely not spew. Calling and not knowing what to do when you flop TPTK is spew.

[TiltedSkillz]

The guy was definitely active, and I'm not sure what with since I folded to the first 3, called the 4th with 99 and c/f'd a broadway flop, and immediately the next hand is the one above.

Obviously pre-flop is debatable. I don't like a 4-bet as I'm going to get called by all hands that beat me and fold out his crap. If he has nothing, I'm going to get max value letting him fire the flop at least.

I guess it's an interesting question as to what the minimum strength ace you'd be willing to call a 3-bet PF with against an active LAG. He might have just been running well, it is a short hand sample but it seemed he was taking advantage. I fold this 9/10 times PF. As played I obviously committed to stacks when I called his flop bet with TPTK.

[Movelong]

3BET FLOP THEN C/F TO TURN BET.

[Milky]

[ QUOTE ]
3BET FLOP THEN C/F TO TURN BET.

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First off you can't 3bet here since hero didn't bet in the first place. Secondly, if you raise he's folding most all hands you beat and calling/pushing the hands that crush you.

Also, I've noticed all your posts in this forum are one sentence replies. If you're going to respond with your line, at least explain why you think your line is best.

[Perk76]

[ QUOTE ]
Help me play the rest of the hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

Shove!

Once you made the decision to play the hand against him, I think you played this hand well if you shove at this point. Calling and seeing another card is bad, and folding now is meh after calling on the 2 streets already. He will fold alot of the time here, call with AK/AQ, flush draws, 10x, and overpairs. You are ahead of a lags range at this point alot of the time. He will fire 2 barrels alot, but the pot is large enough that if he folds you are happy winning it here, and you cant afford to let further cards come off.

[finalboarder]

I think I would just call the flop. He has such a high aggression factor I think that he is willing to put all his money into the pot for us. Of course this does give him the opportunity to draw out on us. But I think that we will be ahead of his betting range.

[monkover]

c/c villain down obv. 4beting preflop seems reasonable.
never fold here though...

[wingchunflush]

Grunch, If your playing against a LAG and hit a hand like this you cant be scared to play it. If you are you need to fold PF. This is good, much better than hitting your ace. I lead the flop weakly and hope he raises, then r/r all in.

[poincaraux]

From his perspective, I this is a great board to keep firing on, because I think that there's a large part of your range that doesn't want to see all the money go in. So, I probably call down. I think calling (rather than c/r) maximizes the amount of money he puts in trying to push you off the hand.

[Ra_]

i think c/r is a bad idea, if you do c/r do it small. worse hands aren't calling, it really only has protection value.

also keep in mind even though over cards are scary, he's only got 6 outs if he has 2 overs thats like %12 to hit.

make a plan now wether you think he'll bluff a non ace over, an ace over, and a under card. and come up with c/c or c/f fold lines for each. playing this passive seems a bit scary but against a lag you gotta do it and accept the variance.