.10/.25...I cant get my head around TT

[fursza01]

Both of these hands are TT UT. I think my biggest problem with TT is I don't know how aggressively to play them, and how far to go with them post flop(given no reads). Any input would be great.


<font color="blue"> <u>HAND #1</u> </font>
Poker Stars, $0.10/$0.25 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 5 Players

SB: $25.25
BB: $25.55
Hero (UTG): $47.85
CO: $24.65
BTN: $6

Pre-Flop: T/images/graemlins/spade.gif T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif dealt to Hero (UTG)
<font color="red">Hero raises to $1</font>, <font color="red">CO raises to $3.50</font>, 3 folds, Hero calls $2.50

Flop: ($7.35) 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif 5/images/graemlins/club.gif (2 Players)
<font color="red">Hero bets $5</font>, <font color="red">CO raises to $12.25</font>, Hero?



<font color="blue"> <u>HAND #2</u> </font>

Poker Stars, $0.10/$0.25 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 6 Players

SB: $24.95
BB: $24.50
Hero (UTG): $24.65
MP: $5
CO: $23.35
BTN: $46.90

MP posts $0.25
Pre-Flop: T/images/graemlins/spade.gif T/images/graemlins/club.gif dealt to Hero (UTG)
<font color="red">Hero raises to $1</font>, MP folds, CO calls $1, 3 folds

Flop: ($2.60) 5/images/graemlins/heart.gif 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif 5/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (2 Players)
<font color="red">Hero bets $1.75</font>, <font color="red">CO raises to $3.50</font>, <font color="red">Hero raises to $9</font>, CO calls $5.50

Turn: ($20.60) K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (2 Players)
Hero?

[Spurious]

Hand 1:
Fold, you are behind to at least Jacks.

Hand 2:
Just call first hand, since you see an overcard 16/47 -&gt; 35% of the time.
Reevaluate on the turn.
You made the pot unnecessarily big.

[Baintz]

Readless, I fold hand 1 preflop. CO has repopped an UTG raiser. 4 betting sucks, as does calling, as TT is hard to play OOP.
As played fold to flop raise, this has RIO written all over it.

Hand 2, again readless, just call flop raise and reevaluate turn. This could be air, a 5 or an 8, possibly 99 or slowplayed overpair. You pretty much define your hand with the flop 3 bet and let villain play perfectly against you.
As played I check fold turn.

[Spurious]

[ QUOTE ]
Readless, I fold hand 1 preflop. CO has repopped an UTG raiser. 4 betting sucks, as does calling, as TT is hard to play OOP.

[/ QUOTE ]

NIT, you fold TT here?
Who thinks we should fold this strong hand preflop?

[monkeymaps]

hand one is pretty easy fold once you get raised on the flop villans prob has JJ+ lol @ folding pre but Im not sure if I like a lead here if we have to fold to a raise?

hand 2 3 bet on the flop sucks no better hand is folding and only better hands are calling unless you have a read that villan is a donkey that would play A8 that way then just call flop.

[NL Newbie]

Hand 1 - From preflop, your now looking to hit a set and dont have good odds.

Hand 2 - I dont mind the reraise, if you think hes full of [censored] and have been very aggro at the tables/hes nuts.

If no history etc, then folding is fine,.

[TilTandWiN]

[ QUOTE ]
hand one is pretty easy fold once you get raised on the flop villans prob has JJ+ lol @ folding pre but Im not sure if I like a lead here if we have to fold to a raise?

[/ QUOTE ]

I think the flop is really really hard to play. If you check how do you deal with a continuation bet by villan? Leading does provide us with information, however does look weak (nice line to take with a set) and we are going to face a reraise alot of the time (even by air) because our play looks weak. I dont know what to do to be honest - im going to post this on the Cardrunners Forum and see what they say.

[members_only]

[ QUOTE ]

NIT, you fold TT here?
Who thinks we should fold this strong hand preflop?

[/ QUOTE ]

I do

[djj6835]

Donking the flop in hand one is pretty bad imo. Fold to the raise as played. When you donk the flop you are potentially taking away villains chance to c-bet with a weaker hand or allowing him to bluff raise you off the best hand. He's probably betting the flop with any hand that continues after you lead plus additional hands that he folds to your flop lead. Folding pf is also fine. I suspect these games aren't overly aggro and hero raised utg. I think TT is behind most unknown's 3 betting range in this particular spot.

Hand 2 just called the raise and see what happens on the turn.

[monkeymaps]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

NIT, you fold TT here?
Who thinks we should fold this strong hand preflop?

[/ QUOTE ]

I do

[/ QUOTE ]

without a read that the 3 bettor is a NIT and 100BB stacks you guys fold this pre?

[JoseRijo]

You should definitely play TT aggressively pre-flop.

Hand 1 - Check the flop. You can always check-raise if he makes a weak c-bet.

Hand 2 - You have $14 left, a $20 pot, and a nice turn scare card. Arrrrrrrrr-in!

[Baintz]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

NIT, you fold TT here?
Who thinks we should fold this strong hand preflop?

[/ QUOTE ]

I do

[/ QUOTE ]

without a read that the 3 bettor is a NIT and 100BB stacks you guys fold this pre?

[/ QUOTE ]


I'm not saying I'm right about folding pre in hand 1, but here's how I look at it:
We raised UTG, we are very unlikely to have trash here. CO repops us. He is unknown, so until I know any better I'll assume he is more likely to have a strong hand (TT+, AK/AQ) than a weak one (33, 76s). If I call the 3-bet the majority of the time at least one overcard will fall. How do you play the hand now? Check call one street and hope villain gives up? Maybe villain will double barrel a whiffed AK/AQ and get us off the best hand. Or he'll catch one of his overs.

What about a low rag flop? Do we donk and fold to a raise? Again we don't know if he'll push AK over a raise and force us off the best hand. If we CRAI we usually will be crushed by JJ+ when called.

Basically, against an unknown, we are only truly happy when we flop a set, and we don't have the implied odds to call pre for set value.
If we had opened in CO, and button had repopped us, or we are in postion, it's a different story,

Finally, this is 25NL, and I just didn't see much light 3betting at this limit. I'm happy folding this pre. Villain can take the 4BB. If it turns out he is very loose, I'll find out soon enough and can adjust accordingly.

[Shattered]

[ QUOTE ]
Hand 2 - You have $14 left, a $20 pot, and a nice turn scare card. Arrrrrrrrr-in!

[/ QUOTE ]

3-betting the flop put you into an awkward spot. Shoving may be the correct play now but it seems really marginal: Reads would *really* help. Readless, an 8 is in villain's range along with a lot of smaller pairs but so are 5s and the occasional better pair. You're not folding out better and you're getting called with worse maybe 50% of the time, so shoving's probably the best play with all that dead money. FWIW, villain's not going to be particularly scared of the K as there's no way you have AK after that action.

Anyways, to make life easier I call the flop minraise and reevaluate the turn. There are virtually no draws out there and you're WA/WB. Try and keep the pot medium to small and take it to showdown.

[Movelong]

i fold hand 1 pf
call raise hand 2 and see turn.Dont reraise flop,ur have no position.

[fursza01]

Thanks for th input. The first hand I folded to the reraise.

I think the way I played the second hand had somehting to do with me being annoyed by TT in the earlier hand so maybe a little bit of tilt. I usually dont 3-bet there, but given how I played it, I ended up pushing on the K turn and getting called by JJ. I guess I tried to make a play to get back the money that I was already throwing away on this hand(not a good idea).