Universally Subversive, Revolutionary and Transformative Still

[Splendour]

Just as it looks like Christianity is on the downslide in the industrialized nations it springs up all over the southern hemisphere.

"In 1900, 80 percent of the world's Christians lived in Europe and North America. Today, more than 60 percent of the world's Christians live outside those lands. While only about one million of the 28 million baptized Anglicans in Britain go to church on a Sunday, Nigeria's 18 million Anglicans pack their houses of worship to overflowing. Christianity in the United States seems to be holding its own, but largely because of its revitalization by recent immigrants. As the demographic center of Christian adherence and vitality continues to shift southward, Jenkins argues further, it will be only natural for the views from the South to gain weight. Voices and perspectives from Europe, Christianity's declining northern margin, will seem less authoritative."

People in Asia, Africa and South America are discovering and agreeing with the bible. Apparently a lot of these cultures can identify even with the Old Testament because a lot are agricultural communities they can understand the farming/sowing type parables better than urbanized countries. The bible's message is continuing to resonate with the poor throughout the world.

The article starts out claiming that the bible is driving the largest religious change in history.

http://www.christianitytoday.com/bc/2007/003/7.22.html

It'll be interesting to see the new and diverse ways in which they interpret the Gospel for themselves.

[bunny]

[ QUOTE ]
People in Asia, Africa and South America are discovering and agreeing with the bible. Apparently a lot of these cultures can identify even with the Old Testament because a lot are agricultural communities they can understand the farming/sowing type parables better than urbanized countries. The bible's message is continuing to resonate with the poor throughout the world.

[/ QUOTE ]
In my opinion, it's more about being poor and religion providing some hope that "it'll all be ok in the end" rather than that they are agricultural. My intuitive position would be that any lifestyle similarities would be trumped by other cultural differences (though I guess most of those cultures had western religious input several centuries ago)

[luckyme]

no revivals at Cambridge or Yale?

hmmmmm.

luckyme

[Splendour]

The funny thing is that they seem to focus on different parts of the bible than Northern Christians. Some countries like Proverbs, some like the Nineveh story, they find things in the bible that are relevant to their current lives. Some in India in the lower end of the caste system can relate to the message of hope for the poor.

[bunny]

Doesnt it worry you that something you regard as the word of god can be interpreted so widely? (I'm presuming you believe the bible is inerrant) I think the biggest problem facing someone who claims the bible is of divine origin, is explaining how it is different from any other holy book given there are so many differing interpretations.

[Splendour]

I see it more as the Gospel gaining new life. There's a passage somewhere in the bible that this book can never be taken out of the world. Of course, there will always be doctrinal and ritual disagreements.

[luckyme]

[ QUOTE ]
Doesnt it worry you that something you regard as the word of god can be interpreted so widely? (I'm presuming you believe the bible is inerrant) I think the biggest problem facing someone who claims the bible is of divine origin, is explaining how it is different from any other holy book given there are so many differing interpretations.

[/ QUOTE ]

Does a thing that has 'any' meaning, have any meaning?

I was surprised by this thread in two areas.--
- pride in the ignorant being attracted to a work.
- pride in the 'roll your own god' use of the bible.
whatever you need it to mean, it's there for you.

The two aspects of christianity that atheists take heat for pointing out.

luckyme

[Splendour]

I think the bible's resilience and flexibility is amazing.

[luckyme]

[ QUOTE ]
I think the bible's resilience and flexibility is amazing.

[/ QUOTE ]

agreed. ( yet very understandable )

Ruby slippers were headed down that same road, then the movie let the secret out.

luckyme

[bunny]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Doesnt it worry you that something you regard as the word of god can be interpreted so widely? (I'm presuming you believe the bible is inerrant) I think the biggest problem facing someone who claims the bible is of divine origin, is explaining how it is different from any other holy book given there are so many differing interpretations.

[/ QUOTE ]

Does a thing that has 'any' meaning, have any meaning?

[/ QUOTE ]
No, but I wouldnt say the meaning one can ascribe to the bible is completely unrestrained - just permissive.

[ QUOTE ]
I was surprised by this thread in two areas.--
- pride in the ignorant being attracted to a work.
- pride in the 'roll your own god' use of the bible.
whatever you need it to mean, it's there for you.

The two aspects of christianity that atheists take heat for pointing out.

luckyme

[/ QUOTE ]
I dont know if you mean me, Splendour or the article she linked. If me, I'm not particularly proud of either of these things - I think it's a problem any theist has who asks to have their view of god taken as true.

[luckyme]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Doesnt it worry you that something you regard as the word of god can be interpreted so widely? (I'm presuming you believe the bible is inerrant) I think the biggest problem facing someone who claims the bible is of divine origin, is explaining how it is different from any other holy book given there are so many differing interpretations.

[/ QUOTE ]

Does a thing that has 'any' meaning, have any meaning?

[/ QUOTE ]
No, but I wouldnt say the meaning one can ascribe to the bible is completely unrestrained - just permissive.

[ QUOTE ]
I was surprised by this thread in two areas.--
- pride in the ignorant being attracted to a work.
- pride in the 'roll your own god' use of the bible.
whatever you need it to mean, it's there for you.

The two aspects of christianity that atheists take heat for pointing out.

luckyme

[/ QUOTE ]
I dont know if you mean me, Splendour or the article she linked. If me, I'm not particularly proud of either of these things - I think it's a problem any theist has who asks to have their view of god taken as true.

[/ QUOTE ]

It was splendour. With this as the coup de grace - [ QUOTE ]
It'll be interesting to see the new and diverse ways in which they interpret the Gospel for themselves.

[/ QUOTE ]

From somebody who links to bible quotes almost exclusively to 'prove' different claims, it renders all those links useless once it's admitted we're all merely "interpret the Gospel for themselves". ( which, again, is a main atheist complaint also).

luckyme

[Insp. Clue!So?]

[ QUOTE ]
Just as it looks like Christianity is on the downslide in the industrialized nations it springs up all over the southern hemisphere.

"In 1900, 80 percent of the world's Christians lived in Europe and North America. Today, more than 60 percent of the world's Christians live outside those lands. While only about one million of the 28 million baptized Anglicans in Britain go to church on a Sunday, Nigeria's 18 million Anglicans pack their houses of worship to overflowing. Christianity in the United States seems to be holding its own, but largely because of its revitalization by recent immigrants. As the demographic center of Christian adherence and vitality continues to shift southward, Jenkins argues further, it will be only natural for the views from the South to gain weight. Voices and perspectives from Europe, Christianity's declining northern margin, will seem less authoritative."

People in Asia, Africa and South America are discovering and agreeing with the bible. Apparently a lot of these cultures can identify even with the Old Testament because a lot are agricultural communities they can understand the farming/sowing type parables better than urbanized countries. The bible's message is continuing to resonate with the poor throughout the world.

[/ QUOTE ]

Given that the OT God resembles Cartman more than anything, this resonance does not disturb you?

[Splendour]

Well faith is complicated. You have a constant tension between keeping the word interpreted safely, but you still have to live it. It's just not that safe to live it, but you can't put it in a box. Look at Jesus, it certainly wasn't safe for him while he was living it, but he knew it was a transition period.

Here's some beautiful music for anyone who wants to listen:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2hVeZJA8rJ4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s6zdihmwy1M

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=demRHgul2Zk

[Splendour]

Wow thought this was such a nice thread and this was such a great song: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=demRHgul2Zk

then I was studying up on Daniel Webster and came across this interesting story summary lol:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Devil_and_Daniel_Webster_%28short_story%29

[ChrisV]

In other words, the richer and more educated nations are abandoning Christianity, while poor and uneducated nations are embracing it?

[tame_deuces]

I don't want to be mean, but these music videos really freak me out. Not like they scare me, but more cringeworthy.

[Splendour]

Wow you're even more radical in your beliefs than I am tame_deuces. I at least laughed at your Mr. Bean as devil video.

[tame_deuces]

I can't help it, the genre makes me cringe - it isn't the lyrics or message or anything. As I said, I didn't want to be mean. /images/graemlins/smirk.gif

[Splendour]

Its interesting to see where and why the Spirit is moving. Who knows why? I wouldn't think the intellectual capacity in non-industrial nations of the world would be any lower than industrialized nations, would you? It just might be easier for them to recognize principles of faith and apply them. They don't have as much baggage and distractions. I'm sure there are other religions, belief systems in competition though, so in some instances they may be making a choice.

Some of them may be making a choice based on the relevancy of the Gospel to their own lives and not in accordance with the intelligentsia of industrialized nations's ideas because those ideas have no bearing on their current situation.

[Splendour]

/images/graemlins/ooo.gif Why what's your genre?

[tame_deuces]

[ QUOTE ]
/images/graemlins/ooo.gif Why what's your genre?

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, err...tons of stuff. Jazz, funk, baroque classic, death/doom/power/hollywood metal, various forms of electronica, some pop stuff, lots of rock - esp hardhitting genres, classic soul (70s/60s) and I have a softspot for 80s pop. Alternative 70s rock also rumbles.

I don't really mind christian music either, here is a Christian Metal video I always liked: clicky (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UzAXKdNYuUE)

(not necessarily for the musically faint of heart)

Oh, and I promise to hijack the thread no further. /images/graemlins/blush.gif

[Splendour]

Christian metal? They sounded more like they were trying out for the voiceover part of the Orcs in The Lord of the Rings movie series.