bottom 2pr on tough board -- 50NL [Archive] - Two Plus Two Newer Archives

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Kasane

10-25-2007, 08:01 PM

Villain in the blind was a none too good, 17/10/1.5 or something like that. Typical daytime FTP type. I was currently being pretty aggressive, maybe not on my A game and playing pretty loose.

Shorty villain was awful. Don't remember what kind of awful, but I wasn't too concerned.

On this flop I'm not behind a whole heck of a lot from villain. No sets are out there, I think AK reraises pf, KQ I'm flipping with if he cares to go all the way with me -- K9s is about the only hand I really fear. I guess 89s too. Villain's like this tend to c/r those hands though, right?

QJ is also an ugly possibility. Whatever it is, donking full pot means villain's trying to protect their vulnerable hand. A made hand with a good to great draw was my read. So many hand out there that this could be that I'm having a hard time enumerating them. ATs/KTs?

So, do you raise it up? Call a push from villain? Flat call and see what comes on the turn? Seems kinda silly giving odds to shorty behind me.

Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (6 handed) Full Tilt (http://www.flopturnriver.com/reviews/Online-Poker-FullTilt.php#converter) Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (http://www.flopturnriver.com) (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Button ($18.45)
SB ($51.55)
BB ($22.10)
UTG ($89.95)
Hero ($83.20)
CO ($55.90)

Preflop: Hero is MP with T/images/graemlins/heart.gif, J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
1 fold, Hero raises to $2, 1 fold, Button calls $2, SB calls $1.75, 1 fold.

Flop: ($6.50) Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif, J/images/graemlins/spade.gif, T/images/graemlins/club.gif (3 players)
SB bets $6.5, Hero raises to $19.5...

edited for grammatical error. Sue me.

Ranma4703

10-25-2007, 08:03 PM

Call flop, hope button pushes, push after sb calls. If button folds or just calls, get it in on a non [censored] turn (no A, no s, no K).

Micro Donk

10-25-2007, 08:05 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Call flop, hope button pushes, push after sb calls. If button folds or just calls, get it in on a non [censored] turn (no A, no s, no K).

[/ QUOTE ]

so you want to slowplay this board? beyond terrible

Lego05

10-25-2007, 08:13 PM

Raise it up....likely call shove.

Vaaariance.

Kasane

10-25-2007, 09:38 PM

Button ($18.45)
SB ($51.55)
BB ($22.10)
UTG ($89.95)
Hero ($83.20)
CO ($55.90)

Preflop: Hero is MP with T/images/graemlins/heart.gif, J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
1 fold, Hero raises to $2, 1 fold, Button calls $2, SB calls $1.75, 1 fold.

Flop: ($6.50) Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif, J/images/graemlins/spade.gif, T/images/graemlins/club.gif (3 players)
SB bets $6.5, Hero raises to $19.5, Button calls $16.45 (All-In), SB raises to $56.05 (All-In), Hero calls $30.05.

Thin, but I still have to call here, right?

Shattered

10-25-2007, 10:12 PM

A 17/10 doesn't always 3-ball AK, I don't think you can discount it from his range. I do think you can throw out K9 though.
Villain's passive and you're pretty far behind his range after the flop shove. Against QQ-TT, AK, KQ, QJs, 98s, QTs, and AsXs to you have about 33% equity and you need to call 30$ into 90$ so calling vs. folding is fairly +EV if this were a heads up pot. Throw in the times button wins and removing most of the lower AXss then it probably approaches just about 0 EV . I call, but it's variance-embracing, to say the least.

Kasane

10-25-2007, 10:43 PM

He doesn't have TT-QQ. For one, most of the cards are gone. I think we usually see a rr with those, at least not JJ and QQ, and there's only one combo of TT left.

AK ... yeah, I've seen it. And stat-wise it fits with the passive nit type, so maybe it should be in my thoughts heavier than I had it.

At the table, I tend to eliminate the far out stuff that doesn't usually "fit" so that I can figure out quicker what to do. I eliminated AK and sets right off the bat. Still a ton I'm ahead of slightly, but I'm way ahead of nothing and drawing near dead against a couple things.

Shattered

10-25-2007, 10:57 PM

Why doesn't he have TT-QQ? While we see a reraise out of those sometimes a passive 17/10 nit easily calls out of the blinds with semipremiums and that donk pot-3bet on a very wet board seems like a very good, standard play with a set. Sure, he has it less than other combinations because most of the cards are gone, but it's definitely part of his range and the fact that they're less likely is included in the Pokerstove hand weightings. Their percentages being discounted is why my proposed range doesn't completely crush bottom two pair.
The only hands that "fit," as you say, are either way ahead of you or are slightly behind. That said, there is an enormous amount of dead money in the pot and calling looks just about 0EV to me.