I pressed the donk with KK and he pressed back.... what to do??

[Lostit]

The villain in question here is 55/6/7 over 70 hands. I've basically got the donk on the ropes with KK, but catch an Ace on the turn and then get min bet/re-raised all in.

Full Tilt Poker, $0.25/$0.50 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 6 Players
LegoPoker (http://www.legopoker.com)Hand History Converter (http://www.legopoker.com/hh)

SB: $76.90
BB: $62.95
UTG: $41.40
MP: $41.60
Hero (CO): $49.10
BTN: $47.30

Pre-Flop: K/images/graemlins/spade.gif K/images/graemlins/club.gif dealt to Hero (CO)
UTG calls $0.50, MP folds, <font color="red">Hero raises to $2.25</font>, 3 folds, UTG calls $1.75

Flop: ($5.25) 5/images/graemlins/diamond.gif Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif 8/images/graemlins/club.gif (2 Players)
<font color="red">UTG bets $1.50</font>, <font color="red">Hero raises to $6</font>, UTG calls $4.50

Turn: ($17.25) A/images/graemlins/heart.gif (2 Players)
<font color="red">UTG bets $0.50</font>, <font color="red">Hero raises to $13</font>, <font color="red">UTG raises to $33.15 and is All-In</font>, Hero ???[/i]

Do you ...

A.) Give credit for the Ace here? FOLD
B.) Give credit a slow played monster here? FOLD
C.) Attribute this to a semi-bluff flush draw? CALL
D.) Attribute this to a straight out bluff since his aggression is so high? CALL

This players aggression by street is 4/11/INF, but only 70 hands. Either way, he does get crazier on the later streets.

With the way he played this, Ax is definitely within range, but so are a bunch of junk holdings.

Basically is a $20 call to win an additional $63. What would you do here?

[Micro Donk]

what does raising accomplish? a bad card hit you, and ill accept villains offer of a very cheap showdown at this point. its pretty much turning your hand into a bluff, i cant see a line queen calling

[Lostit]

Lets say I do simply call the 50 cent bet, look where that puts me on the river...

A.) I just told a guy with a 7 postflop aggression that my flop action was a c-bet and I'm not that confident in my hand. I'm almost guaranteeing the fact that I'll be dealing with a much larger river bet to call if I want to stay in.

B.) I have a board with 2 hearts on board, and a straight draw on board. If he has 67, then any 4 or 9 could work. If he had a Q, an another one comes, I'm behind there. If another heart comes, I'd be concerned also. If a J, 10 or K come, I could be making a straight draw come in there also.

My point is that there are not many cards that would come on the river that wouldn't make some sort of possibility for the villain to bluff into, and I'm almost possitive that he would bet harder on the river if shown weakness.

Basically you shut down KK when any ace hits the board and say goodbye to the 16 BB that you've already invested in the pot?

[Lego05]

Fold.


I just call his turn bet though.

[oli1980]

I like the hand. Now fold. This is never a draw.

You could have called the $0.5 but would have to call a higher river bet if you think he will realize that you are weak and act accordingly.

[DemonOfTheFall]

[ QUOTE ]


Basically you shut down KK when any ace hits the board and say goodbye to the 16 BB that you've already invested in the pot?

[/ QUOTE ]

I think Pokey said somewhere that average winrates for KK/AA over a large sample should be in the vicinity of 10-20 BB/100 in PT. Going on Pokey's advice I'd be more than happy to win a ~20BB pot with KK than lose 100BB.

[ICMoney]

He bet like a butterfly and stung you like a bee.

Sucks when the donks donk you.


Oh yea, fold.

[KRE8R]

Call his small bet on the turn and pray for a K on the river. At this point you are behind and should call only because the pot is so large. I wouldnt worry that much about giving him information by showing down. I would worry about not stacking off to him.

[livesinabarn]

Villians who don't know about bet sizing and bet super small amounts on two streets aren't gonna somehow go to valuetown with huge bet on river, call and he'll bet small on river with almost any hand and aay river, so call down both streets, as for what did happen, obv fold, as he has an ace or better.

[Lostit]

Thanks for the feedback. In this circumstance I did fold. I figured him for ace or better, with only a small outside chance that a heart draw might have beein trying to get fold equity here. I figured that for a real slim chance though.

Just for clarity though, and I did see opinions on both sides, what do you think of betting into an Ace on the turn, heads up with KK, versus shutting down?

I don't agree with "Livesinabarn" that the river bet would be small. When I see two weak bets that are simply called, the river bet is pot sized about 80-90% of the time. Especially from someone with as high of an aggression factor as him.

"Demon on the Farm", I'm not sure what you're getting at with your comment? I understand Pokey's stat, and fully agree with that. But my bet on the turn was an attempt to take the pot right there, essentially saying that I WAS happy with that pot and didn't want to mess around with it anymore.

[Baintz]

Don't like turn raise, just call the small bet. Yes, it often means you'll face a decent bet on the river from someone so aggressive, but I would probably call that too (dependent on size and the river card). Sure, you'll lose sometimes, but you'll also pick off some bluffs.
Look at it from his point of view, your turn call says your hand is weak, so would he bet large on the river with a good hand into an obvious weak one? From an aggro player, I'd expect a larger bet to be more likely to be a bluff. I he bets small, you have an easy call and got to showdown cheaply.

As played once he 3-bets the turn, it's very unlikely he has a draw, as your line is super strong so he can't expect to have much (if any) fold equity.