5 NL IM SO LOST ON THIS RIVER WTFFFFFF

[yeotaJMU]

if u read my last post this is same villian... wtf do i do?

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.02 BB (6 handed) Poker Stars (http://www.flopturnriver.com/reviews/Online-Poker-PokerStars.php#converter) Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (http://www.flopturnriver.com) (Format: 2+2 Forums)

CO ($2.30)
Hero ($9.07)
SB ($4.98)
BB ($3.01)
UTG ($6.81)
MP ($6.74)

Preflop: Hero is Button with A/images/graemlins/spade.gif, Q/images/graemlins/club.gif.
UTG calls $0.02, <font color="#CC3333">MP raises to $0.04</font>, CO calls $0.04, Hero calls $0.04, SB calls $0.03, BB calls $0.02, UTG calls $0.02.

Flop: ($0.24) A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 7/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(6 players)</font>
SB checks, BB checks, UTG checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP bets $0.02</font>, CO calls $0.02, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $0.22</font>, SB folds, BB folds, UTG folds, <font color="#CC3333">MP raises to $0.62</font>, CO folds, Hero calls $0.40.

Turn: ($1.50) J/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
MP checks, Hero checks.

River: ($1.50) Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">MP bets $6.08 (All-In)</font>, Hero ??????


also [censored] ppl who shove wtf is that play cards

[yeotaJMU]

bump for much needed help i am mad lost here

[creamfillin]

I fold this unless he does this ALOT

[yeotaJMU]

this is the 4th time ive seen him shove... last time he did i had KK on a Q J 9 4 K board.

what hands are you putting him on... AJ?

[creamfillin]

You're odds here really really suck and judging the flop action he can easily have a Jx here. I think PF I would 3-bet this.

[yeotaJMU]

you think he would min-bet three bet with jack x? should i have played back on flop?

i can see merit in 3 bet preflop... i usually just hate three betting AQ off

[mecbluefugate]

I think a jack is really, really likely

[yeotaJMU]

can you provide explanation for what makes you think he has a jack? i just am having a hard time putting him on a jack and 3 betting flop...

[creamfillin]

[ QUOTE ]
you think he would min-bet three bet with jack x? should i have played back on flop?

i can see merit in 3 bet preflop... i usually just hate three betting AQ off

[/ QUOTE ]

I didn't see his flop 3-bet. Now I'm thinking maybe AJ/77.. his line is so strange. It sort of screams monster but against this nut he may even show up with Ax here.. Again I lean fold because of the terrible river odds.

Against a minraise I'm generally 3-betting AQ, esp. since we have the button. AQ doesn't play well multiway and we want to isolate the fishies in position. Mmmm.. I can smell the EV.

[Lostit]

I think you need to fold here as played.

A few other observations though...

1.) Preflop, with a caller and 2-minraisers in front, you need to raise that up there. AQos is a nice hand, but not in 4 to 6 way pots. I would raise 4BB + 1 for every limper there. I would be betting .16 to .24 cents there. I would be fine with just taking down the dead money preflop with no action.

B.) Didn't see his 3-bet on that flop either. Thats a fold right there for you. AK and AJ beat you, so you think he has what? A10? doubt it. Most of his range at this point beats you.

C.) Lastly, you said this is the fourth time you've seen him shove. I don't know what his stats are, but I would be more patient that to try and catch him in another spot.

If you get used to betting out and taking the lead more, you would gain more clarity into when he's on his heels versus when he's attacking. Keep him on his heels long enough and his frustration will probably represent itself in an increase in the number of shoves you see from him. At that point, you simply have more opportunities to catch a hand and pick him off.

Lastly keep in mind that when you see someone shoving a lot, you don't necessarily need the nuts to call him. TPTK, overpairs, 2-pair, etc become very effective here if you're paying attention.

[yeotaJMU]

in my mind i fold here 100% on a non Q river. after he 3 bet me on the flop i put him on AK or AJ... but the turn check was like uhh. In the chat before i called the river i said "nh if you have AJ" then he rolled up quads.

thanks for the help.

[Lostit]

[ QUOTE ]
in my mind i fold here 100% on a non Q river. after he 3 bet me on the flop i put him on AK or AJ... but the turn check was like uhh. In the chat before i called the river i said "nh if you have AJ" then he rolled up quads.

thanks for the help.

[/ QUOTE ]

Familiarize yourself with the "stack-a-donk" move because thats exactly what he was trying to do there. He checked, to show weakness, hoping you would bet at him, at which point he was going to come back over the top. You checked behind, which left him with a very blatant push on the river.

The stack-a-donk move is one of the more over used lines and is one that not only you have in your own bag, but also learn to spot. His flop action should have been a decent indicator that it was coming.

[Tanky]

This has to be a fold, i doubt youre good &gt;45% of the time here.

[Hebel]

Again, every time i see a donkey take this line he has a monster hand (aces full, quad jacks), just doesnt know how to extract, and wants his big hand to get paid off big