Get your n00b out, uNL--Volume 2 [Archive] - Two Plus Two Newer Archives

EMc

10-24-2007, 03:30 PM

Got a question you think is too noobish to ask?

Afraid your post will get locked because it's stupid?

Think you've got a frequently asked question that isn't in the FAQ?

In the second annual installment of Get Your Noob Out we're inviting all of you to post your noob questions - as silly as you think they might be - in this thread.

This thread is reserved for ON TOPIC questions only. This is not "Ask EMc Anything." Attempts to troll this thread (where the mods will be politely providing answers) will be met with swift bans.

Looking forward to it:

EMc 
 AJMargarine 
 Orange 
 ama0330

Micro Donk

10-24-2007, 03:32 PM

recommended cardrunner vids?

also if im at, say, 25NL, should videos only around my level by watched, like up to 100NL? or does it matter all that much?

 I enjoyed all of the GreenPlastic lower NL videos, as well as all the Brian Townsend videos. I don't really like the Stinger vids or the low limit guest pro ones. 

 My CR expired a while back and I only got to see a few Brian Townsend's vids. I enjoyed them alot. I've heard that cts' vids are quite good. I also enjoyed GP and I think that those CR vids are decent for good TAG play. 

For me it was Jmans video, and both of CTS's videos. Brians are also very good and anything by GP. Check out adanthars videos if you are into MTTs.

Spurious

10-24-2007, 03:33 PM

what does FWIW mean

i am serious, couldnt find an explanation somewhere, was afraid to ask in the brew /images/graemlins/smile.gif

 For What Its Worth

catoandtonic

10-24-2007, 03:38 PM

Does "grunch" mean that the poster has not read the other responses? If so, does the saying "grunch" come from the poster grunch?

Yessir.

Khumalo

10-24-2007, 03:40 PM

How often should I be double-barreling at NL50?

a) Rarely, only against decent/TAGGY people

b) Maybe 20-25% of the time, you need a scary or overcard turn, and a read that villain is NOT a station.

c) Maybe 40-50% of the time, it's such a powerful play that you should be using it in a variety of contexts against most opponents, and only adjusting your frequency downwards when events specifically warrant it.

I think its most effective being done like b, where you have a read villain is not a station and you have a good card to do it on. 

This Q is impossible to answer. We need stack sizes, villan descriptions, board texture and game flow/image before thinking about this. I wrote something on this in micros a while back here (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Board=microplnl&Number=11741870 &Searchpage=1&Main=11741870&Words=double++orange&t opic=&Search=true#Post11741870) 

IMO if you are looking for a blanket statement, then "never double barrel at the micros unless its for value" is a good one. There are situations where it is appropriate but if you never do it you're not missing out on anything at all.

ajmargarine

10-24-2007, 03:41 PM

Yay, noob thread. Anything poker related, bankroll, tilt, or questions about uNL or 2p2 or modding or poker sites or w/e blah blah blah. Last one was fun. Just know it's not like a well to ask mods personal questions.

And to be clear, it's the mods only answering questions as a service to the uNL community. Look forward to it.

Vader4

10-24-2007, 03:45 PM

How exactly do you datamine? Does it require another program? I searched Datamining Full Tilt, and the thread said something about "Full Tilt Table Opener", but didn't say exactly how to employ it or where to get it. Can anyone give me a quick how-to?

I'm prepping for my move up to 50NL and would like to get some good numbers on players up there.

Check out the software forum stickies and threads there. They have all the stuff you need to use and know about datamining various sites

Monster207

10-24-2007, 03:46 PM

Whats a standard but solid winrate at 10nl/25nl?
What level do you feel has the biggest jump in difficulty for most players?
Who will in the world series? i'll answer - sox
Will the celtics make it to the finals this year? - no
Will the Patriots lose this year? not a chance

Anything over 5ptbb/100 is a solid winrate at any level.

The biggest jump is always the next level above the one you are currently playing on. I know that's kind of a cop-out answer, but it's the truth imo. You have to take each hurdle as they come.

Rips

10-24-2007, 03:54 PM

I started playing at stars yesterday on a 20 dollar bankroll. I dual tabled at 10NL with a big risk, but it ended well. When can I move up to 25NL? I am willing to take a risk of getting busted by the swings, but not a too big risk. I have 150 dollars now, is it too soon?

Poor bankroll management. Continue to stay at 10NL until you have $350 or so. Then you can think about taking some shots at 25nl. Generally bankroll guidelines are suggested around 20 buyins. You can start taking shots around 15 though. 

Well, it looks like you made $130 in one day at 10NL. That's really really good. Why not just keep playing at that limit until you build up a nice cushion like Orange says.

Know that it's only because of positive variance (running hot) that you were able to do so well in one day. Just take it easy for a little bit longer at NL10 and try to build that roll up higher first before moving up.

AceofSpades

10-24-2007, 03:59 PM

is it gene?rally profitable at 50nl to raise any two on the button?

 Depends on the blinds/stack size and how tight/good/bad they are. In a vaccum, I would say no. 

Ive tried it, its not. Doing this relies too much on FE which is non existant.

ICMoney

10-24-2007, 04:03 PM

How many posts do I need to have pooh-bah status?

Is it 1400 or 1600?

Posts Title

0 stranger
25 newbie
50 journeyman
100 member
200 enthusiast
400 addict
700 old hand
1200 veteran
1600 Pooh-Bah
2500 Carpal \'Tunnel

There is the possibility that this is changing too when they do the software update which is coming up shortly

Monster207

10-24-2007, 04:08 PM

Just wanted to say this is an awesome idea and thanks.

This I suppose is a player dependent question but for you at how many tables can you play and still 'learn' before you start just playing like a bot? which is more profitable?
Your learning curve should still be quite high in the beginning. playing and evaluating your play as well as talking to those better than you and coaching sessions are all ways you can help yourself improve. I would say that it drops off a bit once you start playing more and getting into the swing of things.

Sometimes i like to 2 table and really think about my actions and the actions of others. I think its a good way to help yourself.

i think that playing more tables is typically more profitable- if you can maintain your A game while playing many tables, why not? at some point you might want to try new things by going down to lower limits/trying new strategies, but playing more tables seems much more profitable. 

I play 6 tables usually, and I find it quite comfortable. When I move to a new level I play just one, then two, then four, then six. I think that multi-tabling is HUGELY important because so much of micro stakes play is about volume of hands, that is, once you have sorted out your game. IMO you should be playing as many tables as you feel capable of - I'd play nine but its too much for me.

Ranma4703

10-24-2007, 04:17 PM

Which of these videos do you recommend I start with? Besides iStrong?
http://www.roulettenburg.com/poker/videos.html
Against a loose player who likes to bluff, what do you do after betting the flop with a marginal hand (2nd pair, TPWK, pair lower then 2nd) on the turn? What if he isn't a bluffer, but will bet after the pfr checks the turn a good % of the time? Marginal hands out of position are my very worst hands (true for pretty much everyone I assume).

How much of a station does someone have to be for you to call a pot sized bet with a naked flush draw out of position, 100bb stacks? Do you coldcall raises in position from tight players with Axs? What about loose players?

Just trying to nail down some situations that have been giving me trouble, thanks!

These questions are very hard to answer.

Videos, can't comment on since I haven't seen many of them.

I typically check the turn against a loose player with a marginal showdown hand to induce a bluff on the river and exercise some pot control. If we are OOP with a decent showdown hand, I tend to c/c to a looser player and check the river. So, for an example:

you open TT, he calls.
Flop J23r, you bet, he calls.
Turn 2, you check, he bets, you...?
i would call here most times given some opponents. against others you can fold, but against many, i c/c and check the river. our hand is good alot and he can be floating/betting with alot of stuff here.

your terminology is all wrong. a player generally is not a 'station' if he is the one who bets. the flush draw question is difficult- stacks, board texture, reads are all vital. i would say that calling a PSB is generally not good though with a lone fd, mainly because you won't be paid when you do hit your flush OOP.

in regards to Axs- sometimes. i wouldnt call a tight UTG open with it but like a looser CO i dont mind calling with Axs. it just depends I guess, like everything.

AceofSpades

10-24-2007, 04:25 PM

I'm currently a tilty bluff loving spewtard/calling station, that mostly has been profitable in donkaments. Any advice on converting to cash games without becoming weaktight?

 You know what, you just have to play some and get some hands in. Study your hands. Have others take a look at them by posting hands here. It's just a process. Little by little by little you improve and evolve and grow. But get the foundation of ABC TAG down first. Play good starting hands. Bet your good hands. Fold the bad ones. Big hands, big pots. Small hands, small pots. 

^^really good answer.

Monster207

10-24-2007, 04:26 PM

I was just reading this post by pokey http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Number=5348855 and I wanted to know what he means when he says "shania". I see it here and there in other posts and I have no idea what he is talking about.

 "shania" is supposed to reward good, proper play with good results. It's just something some 2p2'er made up long time ago that's become part of 2p2 culture.



I was under the impression that shania was about metagame and balance. The notion that if you do a certain thing for value, you need to be doing the exact same thing as a bluff a percentage of the time. I'll see if I can dig up the original thread.

Here: http://archiveserver.twoplustwo.com/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/533592/site_id/1#import

hennnerz

10-24-2007, 04:45 PM

In an average 1000 hand session how many "plays" should I be making roughly? eg. 3bet flop light vs over-agro villain type plays.

Also what is the consensus on bankroll management with respect to multitabling? Standard bankroll is 20buyins, how many for 4, 8, 12 and 15 tabling?

As mods, I have always wondered how many hands you have logged lifetime?

You can get by with making 0 "plays" if you want. But, I would say some one shot well timed bluffs and some 3bet lights are good for you. But you would have to do it well. Which just comes with playing over time. Maybe 5-10 per 1000. And as far as elaborate multi street bluffs go, about 1 per 1000000000000000 hands, heh.

Bankroll is really not effected by multitabling.

We've logged varying amount of hands at varying limits. But, we're chosen not for our poker playing abilities. More that we were decent posters who contributed to the forums at a time when a mod was needed.

BrunoThePug

10-24-2007, 04:50 PM

What's the best way to sort out replies in a thread that are good and contain advice I should follow and those that aren't?

 Look for posters you know and trust and try to partially figure out for yourself what sounds right 

 You should read all advice and learn to filter it for yourself. Nobody can give you a perfect answer because poker is not a game that can be solved. You will come to learn who to ignore.

Are the irc channels any good? I've listened in a few times but they seem to be dead.

 There is a uNL channel, ive never been there. There is also a SSNL channel, I believe both are on efnet 

I think I'm undervaluing TPTK/TP type hands (always checking river, playing passively against any villain aggression) any good threads/advice?

I think there are one or two in the sticky, if not just read a few that have been on the front page recently. 

TPTK is only a good hand if your opponent is willing to pay you off with worse. Think about that for a little bit. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

daxtrader

10-24-2007, 05:02 PM

At 25NL, what is the general line to take when your overpair gets minraised on the flop? Check/call all the way down? Is it profitable to push on the flop with QQ+ for 100BB or less in this spot?
 It is HIGHLY profitable to get all in with any overpair usually when min raised by an unknown on a flop at 25nl
Question on getting value: Say you raise something like 10,J on the button and the flop is 10 high. Villain checks. Should you check behind since you will only get called when behind or slightly ahead ? Also checking behind might induce bluffing or have worse hands call you down. Is this correct?
Is it more correct to Cbet in this spot when you completely missed the flop? You should Cbet most flops you raise PF and then especially on this flop for value and protection

m bozeman

10-24-2007, 05:55 PM

Explain to me an easy way to get a hand history, and then actually post it in a thread.

Thanks.

 get poker tracker, get the hand history from that. or just copy/paste it from your table after it happens.

go to a converter. like this:
http://www.legopoker.com/hh/

post it?

bozzer

10-24-2007, 06:10 PM

which one of you lot changed my title? i'm not clever enough to be a pooh bah - Vet4life!

*rolls eyes* 

boz: /images/graemlins/blush.gif

LOLLOLOLOL

Arcturus

10-24-2007, 06:12 PM

Question 1a: What is the best way of posting a screenshot from PokerTracker?

Question 1b: I still can't figure out how to link to another post. How do you do it?

1. Right click and Save on your PT image. It'll save to your desktop. Open up imageshack (google it). Hit browse on the imageshack page. Click on the image you want to host. Click host it. Bottom link on that new page will be the link to your image. Make a post here. Click "Image" below the box where you are making your post. Paste in that link from the imageshack page.

2. Simplest way is to just copy and paste the link and post it. You don't have to use that "link" feature. Though you can paste it into the link feature and add a name for you link.

AceofSpades

10-24-2007, 06:18 PM

whats a good line to take on scary boards wih an overpair? i generally default to c/c down which is pretty good in tournaments with short stacks and bluffy opponents but really sucks with deep stacks against unknowns. thanks for doing this btw

I think its really opponent and board texture dependent. 

 As simple as this answer seems, its really all that can be said here. You cant really generalise the situation to the point where you can have a line to take every time, it depends on so many things. Think about your opponents tendencies, and what you want to happen, then bet your money so that it does happen.

Arcturus

10-24-2007, 06:18 PM

Question 2: I feel that my biggest problem with playing online is that I always feel like if I don't figure out what to do correctly, I'm going to run out of time. It is obviously different on the forums, where you can spend minutes analyzing a hand and figuring out the correct play. There is so much to take into consideration when playing any hand that I always seem to forget something. I kind of equate it to "test anxiety". Has any of the moderators experienced this (or still experience it) and how did you overcome this problem?

I dont really have any suggestion other than beginning to plan your hand when you raise it and what you want to achieve on certain flop textures 

When I first started multi-tabling I was awful at it, and was constantly timing out. Now, I play 6 tables and almost never time out. Two main things helped me:

1. Realise that you have much more time than you think. Most people try and fold their hands as soon as the hole cards appear, and generally try and take every action asap. Just slow your tempo down a little. Count to three before you do anything on a hand. You'll find that you'll rarely time out, even though you've slowed down. Realising that its not nearly as hectic as you think is important.

2. Play simple. Most situations in poker dont require too much analysis. Learn to simpify your choices - this comes with experience. Once you have played many hands you'll know how to react without thinking just because you've been there so many times before.

3. Plan your moves. If you are playing a hand, nothing should come as a surprise for you. Say youre on the flop, and youre betting. Whilst waiting for him to decide what to do, think "if he calls here, I will do X, if he raises, i will do X" etc etc. Think ahead.

bozzer

10-24-2007, 06:39 PM

how do i calculate reverse implied odds? (i just mean the calculation, not the estimation.)

Hmmm, I dont know if you actually can calcuate it, I think is more of a situation deal. 

RIO is a misnomer and cannot be calculated like "real" odds. It just means that "this hand is gonna get real expensive for you".

kaz2107

10-24-2007, 06:47 PM

not sure if this is the spot or wut...

have the well threads been banned or has there just been no interest from good players to do them??? if that is the case would one of a few of u mods pull some strings and get one or 2 sick players to host a well in unl?!?!!?

Most good players have done one already. Any suggestions ill ask. 

uNL is short of "regulars" at the mo. We cant just stick any old noob in there yaknow. Feel free to request a poster you would like to see in the well.

the pang

10-24-2007, 06:50 PM

I know I'm supposed to be figuring out pot odds and implied odds but when I playing there doesn't seem like enough time. Am I just slow? Is this something the other players do every hand?

I am completely awful at pot odds and such. I guess I just have a 'feel' of what is right and what is wrong. And these dumb calcs in my head usually leads me to a wrong decision every now and then. basically, just think about EV calcs and stove the ranges. fimbulwinter wrote some great posts that can be found in the SSNL master sticky. gl! 

Im like orange. Dont sweat it. I estimate that in an hour I would make maybe one or two pot odds calcs, and even then, they are approximate at best. Its really not as important as you think (though certainly not irrelevant!).

Also, I have NO IDEA IN HELL how to to EV calculations, and I still win at poker. So there ya go.

eMbAh

10-24-2007, 06:59 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I know I'm supposed to be figuring out pot odds and implied odds but when I playing there doesn't seem like enough time. Am I just slow? Is this something the other players do every hand?

[/ QUOTE ]

Pot odds is the price you are being offered: what you have to call relative to what is already in the pot. Implied odds is more of a loose estimation, a typical example would be that you are sure that if you hit your flush you will win all your opponents money, or you think your opponent has two aces preflop and you call with 44 because you are confident you will stack him if a 4 comes on the flop. If you think your opponent has T6s and is raising on the button, your implied odds aren't very good with 44 preflop

Shattered

10-24-2007, 07:05 PM

Thanks a ton for doing this.

I play well at the beginning of a session (I'm around 8BB/100 over the last 15k hands), but the moment things start to go poorly I start tilting, first subtly and then become really retarded aggro against everyone. I spew off a couple buyins at least every third session. The upshot is that I have massive swings and my graph looks like a lollercoaster with 6 BI up or downswings in less than 1k hands in my graph being totally standard. Here are the hands I have on this computer, all at 25 NL and fairly representative of how things are going: http://img165.imageshack.us/my.php?image=25nlhl8.jpg
I've been grinding microstakes for about 25k hands and I have the talent, technical skill, and the roll to move up, but tilt problems (and thus confidence issues) make that seem like a bad idea. Do you have any advice so that I can overcome this hurdle?

No easy answer here. it could be your playing style or a myriad of other variables here. Just continue to focus and play solid poker, try your hardest not to spew. 

Psych is so important in poker that they have their own forum. Id suggest you check it out - its on the sidebar there. You need to make peace with yourself and stop yourself tilting or you will fail at poker, no question. I struggle with this also but I am so much better than I used to be. When I feel im tilting I just instaclose my client. Sometimes I'll even kill it from the task manager to avoid having to close individual tables. Just get out of there.

Getting sucked out is something you will have to come to terms with. I am also MUCH better at this now. You must learn to lose. One thing that really helped me is playing over-rolled. I just had a huge tourney score so I am way overrolled for 100nl, and atm I am practising some stuff at 50nl. So its almost like the money is irrelevant because I cant go bust. So when Im playing lag and I lose 3bi (like yesterday) it means nothing and I am unaffected. Playing within your roll is a good way to train yourself not to tilt.

AZplaya

10-24-2007, 08:19 PM

recently there has been alot of buzz about "gator dollars" both here and in SSNL. While I thought Claytons posts were solid, I feel that they apply far more to NL$200 and up, were there are a ton more regs and people actually pay attention to your play. How concerned do you think an NL$10 - NL$50 player should be with earning "gator dollars?"

Link PLS 

Seriously, lol at gator dollars. Id forget about it and just play good poker. The basic notion of gator dollars is that if you play like a moron you wont make any money. You dont need a name for that.

HY77

10-24-2007, 08:36 PM

Is there a way for me to merge my PokerStars and PartyPoker graphs into one (using PokerGrapher)?

http://img525.imageshack.us/img525/3381/pokergraphlx9.jpg
http://img148.imageshack.us/img148/7500/pokergraph2bc8.jpg

I'm finding that I'm not improving much. I think that I have to play more hands but apart from that I don't know what I can work on.

You need to merge your names in the PTDB. Make one the alias for the other and then it will make them together.

creamfillin

10-24-2007, 08:37 PM

I still struggle with AK OOP when facing a 3bet. Against an unknown at say 10NL/25NL I think I'm apt to fold OOP agaisnt a 3-bet because most of there 3-betting range is very tight. Is this too weak? How bad is taking a flop OOP with AK?

 I think in more aggro games you can shove here a lot PF. If you feel that the villain is a. capable of folding say a QQ, JJ b. Is 3 betting a wide range, then a shove is good. If you feel he is 3 betting with a wider range, then shoving is good. IF he is a tightwad then folding might be tight but ok. 

I 4bet or fold and never call. This is totally opponent specific, but never call.

I also suck at playing middle pair OOP in unraised pots. I seem to get myself in trouble when I start check calling because the other person never seems to shut-down. Do you guys tend to lead MP on a drawy board? What about dry ones?

Well if he is not shutting down, just fold because your mid pair is no good? c/c flop and c/f turn is totally fine

kaz2107

10-24-2007, 08:38 PM

[ QUOTE ]
not sure if this is the spot or wut...

have the well threads been banned or has there just been no interest from good players to do them??? if that is the case would one of a few of u mods pull some strings and get one or 2 sick players to host a well in unl?!?!!?

Most good players have done one already. Any suggestions ill ask. 

[/ QUOTE ]hmmmm let me think about it for a night or so and i will brainstorm 3 or 4 names that i would love to have in the well

HY77

10-24-2007, 08:45 PM

What is a well thread?

Similar to this in that posters can ask questions regarding poker and life to a single poster.

kosher

10-24-2007, 09:18 PM

Do you mods get paid for being mods?
If so, how much? I would imagine that it would take up quite a bit of your time.

Apologies if this is too personal.

Ta.
We are volunteers and unpaid 

LOL emc you're funny. We get $3k per hour and I'm currently pushing for a payrise.

Hebel

10-24-2007, 09:30 PM

what is won$wsf%?

also, where can i find a comprehensive guide (other than pokeys post) on how to fully utilize pt?


W$WSF is won money percent when seeing flop
IDK of any other guides, pokeys rules. 

Pokeytracker baby. http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Board=ssplnlpoker&Number=494666 9&fpart=1&PHPSESSID=

Hebel

10-24-2007, 09:45 PM

also, what is this "yeti theorem" i keep hearing about

I believe its a partial BS theory that when a villain 3 bets a flop he has air

mecbluefugate

10-24-2007, 09:48 PM

How can I learn to hand read?

by not asking stupid questions that have no answer like this 

 practice putting people on hands when you play. this usually involves cutting down the tables. try to really feel what your opponents have and what their ranges are. 

Another suggestion: Go to some old sessions in PT, ones you don't remember anymore. Replay them one at a time putting people on hands as you go. Including the hands you aren't involved in.

Chomp

10-24-2007, 10:38 PM

1. Clayton's recent FGators post really made me realise just what an enormous FGators I am. So how do I stop being FG? Is it the obvious post-flop stuff: thinner/better vb'ing, well-timed double barrels, well-timed flop check-raises, well-timed 3b's, floating better. Are these the main tools we have post-flop to get the right risk-reward ratio that Clayton was talking about?

That's alot of it. Easier said then done of course. Include in your postflop list, not auto-CB'ing, checking the goods sometimes, stack-a-donking. Basically not playing your hand face up all the time using the same lines over and over again. 

2. Related, (and maybe I am reading this wrong) Clayton seems to be saying that playing a really dull, nitty TAG game (hammering sets and premiums, folding to aggression a lot, playing the odd sneaky hand, standard positional/blind stealing, infrequent light 3b'ing etc.) is almost by definition break-even at uNL/SSNL. Without adding something more to your post-flop game, you are FGators. Is that a fair reading?

He's talking more about playing your own hand face up all the time and playing only the value of your own hand and taking the same lines over and over again. One-shot CB's. No set, no bet. You can do fine if you ABC it up. But, a little bit of spice in the game helps the winrate go up. 

3. In the Brew earlier we were discussing a point someone had made that in a full day at 50NL he had only been raised 7 times. That makes me think very seriously that tomorrow, if I fold every time I am raised, it cannot be losing me an enormous amount of EV. Comments?

As long as your not folding good hands...and KK to a 3b for 100 bb's /images/graemlins/smile.gif

PLaying back at aggression is hugely -ev in my experience.

4. Did any of you see the recent BBV post by a 1/2NL player who played I think 100k+ hands at 10ptbb/100 playing 20/10/2? Can anyone tell me what this guy's game looks like? TAGfish are the bane of my bloody life.
Goofyballer. Actually he is tighter 

It's passivish. And lets other people do the betting for you which is great the higher the stakes you play, where players are betting alot more freely. It's not traditional 2p2 play and most can't wrap their heads around it though and I wouldn't know the first step in playing that way. 

Thanks. I love Get your N00b Out.

AZplaya

10-24-2007, 10:40 PM

Clayton's gator $'s post
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showth...93#Post12450887 (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showthreaded.php?Cat=0&Number=12450887&an=0&page=9 3#Post12450887)

corsakh

10-24-2007, 10:43 PM

Who is hotter - DN or Phil Hellmuth?

Enjoy your vacation. Dont test us

ICMoney

10-24-2007, 11:02 PM

Why is access denied to to the uNL AIM list?

someone was scamming using the uNL list for prospects.

BevillTheDevil

10-24-2007, 11:28 PM

[ QUOTE ]
what is won$wsf%?


W$WSF is won money percent when seeing flop


[/ QUOTE ]

Whats a good W$WSF%?? Ive read a decent amount on W$SD% where too high means your probalby nitty and too low means you pay off easy etc. But Ive never seen anywhere that mentions a "medium" for W$WSF?? Is there one or is this just a really player dependent stat?? Mines ~40% and FWIW i typically play 22/19/6.5...

40 is great. Dont think any more about it.

Peleus

10-24-2007, 11:32 PM

What do you think is the most effective way of trying to improve your game? I'm currently reading books (HoH I+II, SS, PNL, TOP), signed up for card runners and watched their vids (Brystmar's SSNL series etc), and reading the forums trying to grunch a few hands, and of course playing.

Theres really no great answer to this question, you just need to learn to think. Its like anything - if you ask me how to get good at math, well, you have to understand the questions, think about the process of getting the answer, then practice practice practice. Poker is the same - you have to learn to understand the problems, learn how to solve them, then do it a million times over.

One thing that will help you is to stop searching for "the answer" or "the thing to do every time in this spot" and learn to analyse every single situation indepenently. FWIW HoH is an awesome book and will help you immensely. I still read it from time to time.

Is there any good framework for analyzing your hands, and perhaps spotting leaks? I feel as though I'm playing decent ABC poker, but I'm feeling that my learning curve has slowed a lot, and although I sometimes read some concepts in books I find it impractical to apply them at say a 25nl level.

Just keep playing good ABC poker, dont worry about anything else. The thing about loosening up is that it suddenly becomes apparent to you. For eg, theres a line you've been taking with 2pr that just NEVER gets you paid, your opponents always fold. Then suddenly you think hey, I can do this with any two cards here - so you raise any two and pretend you have 2pr, and just like before, they fold. Thats how you start to deviate from ABC poker.

As for spotting leaks, post hands on 2p2. Thats the best way. 

What the best way to study the hands you've played, and improve from them? I have Poker tracker of course. Looking to put serious effort into improving my game, and I'll do anything practical to do so ($200/hr coach not practical).

Just look at the hands you lost and try and understand why you lost money. Was it a cooler? Did you overplay your hand? Should you have folded somewhere? If you dont know the answer, post on 2p2 and see what everyone else thinks.

mecbluefugate

10-24-2007, 11:32 PM

[ QUOTE ]
How can I learn to hand read?

by not asking stupid questions that have no answer like this 

[/ QUOTE ]

From the OP:

Got a question you think is too noobish to ask?

Afraid your post will get locked because it's stupid?

I didn't mean to ask a "stupid question," but the OP did say it was all right...

What kind of answer do you expect. That is a bad question in that it has no answer and you know this. Its not like I can go well find the answer to B^2+- sqrt(B^2-4AC)/2A 

Hand reading, though mysterious and elusive, can be learnt. Its basically a process of "whittling down" the possible hands your opponent can hold, based on what you know of him, and what is on the board. So lets say you raise a hand and he re-raises you, and you know nothing about him. Well he can actually have any hand here, but to the best of your knowledge, he's got the goods. So you fold. Then next time you raise, he does it again. Ok, so now youre getting suspicious. Then he does it again. You have 72o, and you just call. The flop comes JT4r, and you check. He bets into you for about 3/4 pot, and you shove, and he folds. Now we will never know what he had there, ever. But to the best of our knowledge, he had a hand that couldnt take a full 100bb of pressure on a J high rainbow flop.

Often, hand reading is not about putting a guy on a exact hand, or knowing what he's going to do with it, and you are going to be wrong a LOT. But basically, instead of guessing what he has, think about what he doesnt have. So say you raise, and a very basic dude who you know is super standard just calls on the button. Well you have no idea of knowing what he has, but you know what he doesn't have - AA,KK,QQ,AK - he would have re-raised all of those.

Practice practice practice and good luck.

Matt Flynn

10-25-2007, 12:20 AM

[ QUOTE ]
How can I learn to hand read?

[/ QUOTE ]

Here's what I said on Al Schoonmaker's holdemradio show:

Find a friend in your game. Go over hands against an opponent you both know well. On each street, analyze his range. If you and your friend disagree, figure out why.

Then figure out if you could have done something better. One hint: whenever you answer "call," ask if raise or fold would be better. It's really easy to overlook one of those two alternatives.

GinaSD

10-25-2007, 12:48 AM

How can I track any posts I've made to see if they've had responses?

Theres a little button at the bottom of each post that says "remind me" - it looks like a finger with some string around it. Click that one, and you'll get an email alert when a post is made in one of your threads.

Does the cardrunners hand-converter work to put hands on here?

No, it doesn't. Use this hand converter instead: http://legopoker.com/hh/index.php

mecbluefugate

10-25-2007, 12:50 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
How can I learn to hand read?

by not asking stupid questions that have no answer like this 

[/ QUOTE ]

From the OP:

Got a question you think is too noobish to ask?

Afraid your post will get locked because it's stupid?

I didn't mean to ask a "stupid question," but the OP did say it was all right...

What kind of answer do you expect. That is a bad question in that it has no answer and you know this. Its not like I can go well find the answer to B^2+- sqrt(B^2-4AC)/2A 

[/ QUOTE ]

OK, fair enough, my bad.

See my response to your previous post.

Xanta

10-25-2007, 01:23 AM

[ QUOTE ]

What the best way to study the hands you've played, and improve from them? I have Poker tracker of course. Looking to put serious effort into improving my game, and I'll do anything practical to do so ($200/hr coach not practical).

[/ QUOTE ]

There are a couple pretty simple ways to get a good insight into your play and how you might improve.

1) Every session, every hand that you play, have a pen and paper in front of you. If you hit a hand where you're unsure of the correct action, or felt that you played badly, just write down your hole cards. After the session, fire up PT and find the hand (using your hole cards) and take a look again. If you can't make a decision, ask a friend or post it on the forums.

2) After every session, go into the Game Notes tab on poker tracker, click 'Get All' and then sort the hands by money won/lost. Spend 15 minutes going over every substantial pot. If you feel you played it OK, ask yourself 'what would happen if I raised here instead of called?' 'What range is he raising on the flop' 'What does my equity need to be to call his shove here,' questions like that. Basically, a lot of our wins and losses come from big pots. Go over them with a fine tooth comb, in more detail than you can get into with the 20 seconds you get at the table.

These two methods will help you fix the leaks that you're kind of aware of, and will also help you find new lines in situations that you always played one way and were happy with.

PT is a great tool, but if you don't use it then it won't make you better.

doppelganger

10-25-2007, 01:45 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I was just reading this post by pokey http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Number=5348855 and I wanted to know what he means when he says "shania". I see it here and there in other posts and I have no idea what he is talking about.

 "shania" is supposed to reward good, proper play with good results. It's just something some 2p2'er made up long time ago that's become part of 2p2 culture.



[/ QUOTE ]

Just to add a little more 2+2 history to the shania question, there was a famous thread that's posted in the SNL sticky that introduces the concept of shania:

http://archiveserver.twoplustwo.com/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/533592/site_id/1#import

Shania is basically the same thing as "metagame" but sounds cooler and more "eastern philosophy-ish" when you give it a cool name. /images/graemlins/cool.gif

 Ya, my definition of shania sucks and is sorta inaccurate. check out the link.

iRockPoker03

10-25-2007, 02:13 AM

what does the u in unl mean

 µ <----it's really one of those. Stands for micro. Linky (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SI_prefix)

crovax4444

10-25-2007, 04:56 AM

10NL, We have a pocket pair (22-88) vs a short stack (40bb) He bets 2bb, do we call this crappy bet or raise? 3 situations:

 Your question isnt really clear. Do you mean preflop? Do you mean on the flop? What is the flop texture? What do you know about how the opponet plays? There are lots of details we need to know to answer this question properly. 

1) HU
2) Another player after us left to act
3) Another player before us who already called min-bet
Sub-question: lets say in situation 2 and 3, the players mentioned are short or full, does it change the situation?

What about against a full stack? (same question as #1, but against 100BB)

Crovax

 Against full stacks, sure, go ahead and call with your small pp's. Against a 40bb stack, if you are in position it's probably OK to call the 2 bb's and it'll be marginally profitable long term, but not really that profitable. If you are in the SB, you can fold it if the shortie is the only player involved. In the BB, probably call if others are involved too.

ama0330

10-25-2007, 05:13 AM

Bump

vixticator

10-25-2007, 05:16 AM

Kind of a useless question IMO but maybe not:

How many of an individual hand in pokertracker is a significant sample. Like, say I have 200 KK hands. I assume this is not sufficient. But, what is? I know not to look at hands as a group like this but I *think* with a large enough sample if I'm a big loser with something then I can look through my hands and adjust. But, what is that number roughly?

You mean an individual hand? Like am I winning with 76s? I think you would need a huge sample. But the thing is I dont really think its important, because turning a profit with every hand you play is basically impossible, as many of your hands are just "dummies" to loosen your image and get you paid on your big hands.

ribize

10-25-2007, 05:18 AM

i didnt read the whole thread so if this been asked before sorry
i read somewhere where if you can count 14 out you are roughly even money
my question is for every out over 14 how much do you gain.
thanks

If you are talking about your all in equity on the flop, you are 50% with 14 outs, yes. Here's what it looks like as you go up, but bear in mind that this is pretty much irrelevant because having more than 14 outs is extremely rare.

15 outs 54%
16 outs 56%
17 outs 59%
18 outs 62%
19 outs 65%
20 outs 67%

Nemesis69

10-25-2007, 05:37 AM

I approve of this thread! imo

Ekos

10-25-2007, 06:06 AM

i used to play 1/2 and 2/4 but lost interest in the game and spent my bankroll on toys... that was a year and a half ago

im playing here and there again; i have a bankroll of ~$900 and 9tbl 25nl for a win-rate over 10ptbb/100

however, i still cannot bring myself to play. i will only grind for an hour (1k hands) once or twice a day every few days, and sometimes go a week w/o playing.

id like some suggestions to keep me dedicated to grinding it out until i reach stakes i find challenging

thanks, john

Decide to enjoy the game? Theres no real answer to this question, if you dont want to play, then dont play. If youre bored, try switching it up and playing live for a bit, or try some omaha or something, but no-one can make you "want" to play the game, that has to come from you.

elcastigador

10-25-2007, 06:15 AM

Currently ground my $6 bankroll to $600. Started with small SnGs till ran awesome at the $4/180's on Stars while running goot at 10NL. Now I've moved up to 25NL (can't seem to win short handed) and appear to be doomswitched in all my donkaments, down 6 buyins and haven't cashed big due to variances and suckouts. Suggestions? Attempt to fix leaks in my game to beat 25NL while moving back down to 10NL? Decided to take a break this week and work on my stud8 game.

6 buyins is a nasty little downswing but nothing you should be too worried about. My suggestion to you is to do what makes you feel comfortable. I had a really bad downswing not too long ago that I knew was caused as much by my own bad play as by bad luck. To remedy this I stopped playing for a while, then moved back down to regain my confidence. I was well rolled for my level (50nl) so moving down to 25nl made me megarolled, so I was able to forget about the money and concentrate on playing well.

Never be afraid to move down. Your bankroll is far more important than "sticking it out" or whatever.

ShipitFMA

10-25-2007, 06:25 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Currently ground my $6 bankroll to $600. Started with small SnGs till ran awesome at the $4/180's on Stars while running goot at 10NL. Now I've moved up to 25NL (can't seem to win short handed) and appear to be doomswitched in all my donkaments, down 6 buyins and haven't cashed big due to variances and suckouts. Suggestions? Attempt to fix leaks in my game to beat 25NL while moving back down to 10NL? Decided to take a break this week and work on my stud8 game.

[/ QUOTE ]

I beat 25nl at party for a decent amount whilst playing terribly. When i moved to stars i had the roll for 25nl but decided to fix my leaks at 10nl since i didn't want the learning process to cost too much money.

Not sure whether others are meant to chime in in this thread, but i figured having been in the exact same spot i'd give me 2c.

So, yeah fix leaks at 10nl, its alot better for the long run imo

rakes.a.beach

10-25-2007, 06:27 AM

what's imo?

I remember this thread like half a year ago. I got great answers from it. thanks guys for doing this.

In My Opinion

elcastigador

10-25-2007, 06:33 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Currently ground my $6 bankroll to $600. Started with small SnGs till ran awesome at the $4/180's on Stars while running goot at 10NL. Now I've moved up to 25NL (can't seem to win short handed) and appear to be doomswitched in all my donkaments, down 6 buyins and haven't cashed big due to variances and suckouts. Suggestions? Attempt to fix leaks in my game to beat 25NL while moving back down to 10NL? Decided to take a break this week and work on my stud8 game.

[/ QUOTE ]

I beat 25nl at party for a decent amount whilst playing terribly. When i moved to stars i had the roll for 25nl but decided to fix my leaks at 10nl since i didn't want the learning process to cost too much money.

Not sure whether others are meant to chime in in this thread, but i figured having been in the exact same spot i'd give me 2c.

So, yeah fix leaks at 10nl, its alot better for the long run imo

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks for the advice. In regards to donkaments?:
Keep my same gameplays making the most conscious +ev decisions while chalking it up to variance? Or give into the doomswitch /images/graemlins/confused.gif

This thread is awesome IMO. Thanks mods.

Variance is a bitch. Try to play through it, it'll all work out in the end.

zooey123

10-25-2007, 06:39 AM

I accidently posted this question under ICMoney's post in Beginners forum (How n00by, haha). But here it is now...

I'm starting to (try and) look at my game from hand to hand as opposed to street to street. Should I base my betting patterns on what I'm trying to achieve, or on what kind of hand I have?

Should my thought process be: I want a big pot, what's the best way to do this? OR I have a set, which means I bet this way...

Hope that's not too muddled.

Well the two things you mentioned are one and the same. If you have a set, you should be thinking "I have set, and therefore I want a big pot, so I'll bet/raise/whatever". What you want to achieve is directly related to what hand you have. Eg. "I have nothing so I fold" as opposed to "I have a monster so I bet".

kroeliewoelie

10-25-2007, 06:49 AM

What's ldo?

elcastigador

10-25-2007, 06:52 AM

[ QUOTE ]
What's ldo?

[/ QUOTE ]

Like Duh (der) Obviously, ldo.

ShipitFMA

10-25-2007, 06:58 AM

In poker tracker, how do i make NL ($0.50) and NL $50 combine?

As far as I know there is no way to do this. Check the PT forums, maybe I am wrong...

elcastigador

10-25-2007, 07:16 AM

Another question nOOb thread.
I've used the trial version of PT and really enjoyed it. But recently drawn blanks when translating a players stats of X/X/X for X amount of hands. Could someone help me out?

You mean, what do the numbers mean? Its like this:

VPIP/PFR/AF

VPIP = Voluntarily put money in the pot (i.e. played a hand)
PFR = Preflop raise
AF = Aggression factor.

You can find all these numbers in the "general info" tab of your PT. I hope that answers your question?

hennnerz

10-25-2007, 07:29 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Why is access denied to to the uNL AIM list?

someone was scamming using the uNL list for prospects. 

[/ QUOTE ]

Who? And can you remove my email from there please?

The whole thread is gone, dont worry about it. There was more than one scammer, it was a feeding frenzy, so we killed the thread.

hennnerz

10-25-2007, 07:30 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Also what is the consensus on bankroll management with respect to multitabling? Standard bankroll is 20buyins, how many for 4, 8, 12 and 15 tabling?
Bankroll is really not effected by multitabling.

[/ QUOTE ]

Anymore mod opinions on this please?

If you are playing the same game, it doesnt matter, its just that what was going to happen will happen faster. That means if you are a losing player you will lose faster, and if you are a winning player you will win faster. Variance will just happen over a shorter period of time. So what that means is that your BR requirements are the same whether you are 1 tabling or 15 tabling.

Of course if you have a 20bi roll and you have 15 of those bi in play at any time, if you have a 6 bi session downswing then you are going to have to close some tables, so in that respect you need to have some bi in reserve. But in terms of raw variance if you think that you need more money to play more tables then it is most likely that you play worse when 15 tabling than you do when 6 tabling so you should cut down on some tables.

FreddyT87

10-25-2007, 08:11 AM

Is it possible to be a winning player at NL50 and lower wihtout bluffing (not counting cbetting and semi-bluffing as bluff)? Since i think the answer is yes, what should my BB/100 winrate be at NL50, NL25 and NL10 when I never bluff?

Yes, you can be a winner never bluffing. As for your winrate, that depends totally on how you play postflop, but a winrate of 6ptbb/100 is certainly attainable without ever bluffing.

corsakh

10-25-2007, 08:13 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Also what is the consensus on bankroll management with respect to multitabling? Standard bankroll is 20buyins, how many for 4, 8, 12 and 15 tabling?

[/ QUOTE ]

Deviation is a subject to a square root rule. It also depends on your winrate.

Consensus is you need 20BI for a full concentration play. I'd say its a comfortable number for someone playing 5ptbb/100 hands 1 or 2 tabling.

If you want to play 4 tables, a safe estimate would be to take sq root of 4, which is 2, and multiply it by 20 = 40BI.

If your WR is bigger, say `10ptbb, you can get away with 30bi for 4 tables.

Another example. You want to play 8 tables at 5ptbb.
sqrt 8 = 2.8, 2.8 x 20 = 55bi

8 tables at 10ptbb about 40bi from the top of my head.

For exact numbers search google for risk of ruin calculator and play with the numbers. You can find you deviation numbers in poker tracker.

^^^^^ This is all blah blah blah.

Bankroll doesn't need to be larger based on the number of tables you play. 20 BI is the old standard. (And that was assuming you were 4-tabling at the least.) Hardly anyone in SSNL keeps 20BI as a roll anymore. It's what you are comfortable with. I keep 40+ BI in my roll for NL200. Alot of SSNL'ers keep 30-70 BI in their roll.

If you play 10k hands, you play 10k hands. It doesn't matter if you get there 2 tabling over a weeks time. Or 8 tabling 2 days. It's still 10k hands.

EDIT: Granted, I am talking about a player who has found the optimum number of tables that he can play that maximizes his winrate. If you add tables to that number, your winrate is going to go down and your Risk of Ruin is going to go up so you would need a bigger bankroll. But, that's only because you are playing sub-optimally.

corsakh

10-25-2007, 08:15 AM

Post deleted by ama0330

chip-star

10-25-2007, 08:17 AM

How many ptbb/100 should i be losing in non showdown winnings and how much is a leak?

Not ignoring the question. I just have no clue what the answer is.

Be wary of becoming too stats orientated. Or trying to get your numbers to line up a certain way. Every player is a little different because people have different temperamants. So PT numbers will vary across the board. Play good. Win. And the numbers take care of themselves.

FreddyT87

10-25-2007, 08:18 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Is it possible to be a winning player at NL50 and lower wihtout bluffing (not counting cbetting and semi-bluffing as bluff)? Since i think the answer is yes, what should my BB/100 winrate be at NL50, NL25 and NL10 when I never bluff?

[/ QUOTE ]

For now take my word for it - it's ONLY possible to be a winning player at 50nl without bluffing.

[/ QUOTE ]

Any reasons? Not bluffing means valuebetting all the time. and the players at lower stakes call more than at the higher stakes so my guess was that when the blinds go up, your win rate without bluffing goes down.

corsakh

10-25-2007, 08:20 AM

At micros no one ever folds. You make money by valuebetting, not by folding others. Last time I checked on a small sample, mine was -5 in red.

bozzer

10-25-2007, 08:26 AM

[ QUOTE ]
At micros no one ever folds. You make money by valuebetting, not by folding others. Last time I checked on a small sample, mine was -5 in red.

[/ QUOTE ]

last time i checked your name wasn't green.

kimos123

10-25-2007, 09:23 AM

How is the "Cold call" calculated? and what does it tell when it high or low?

I think it's just the % of time that you call a PFR.

cashstrapped

10-25-2007, 09:24 AM

Sorry if this has been asked i didnt read the whole thread.
WTF is Metagame?

See the post on Shania. A good example would be c/ring on the turn after cbetting to show that every time you check the turn after PFR/CB you aren't giving up on the hand. Or going all in on a draw.

worpler

10-25-2007, 09:25 AM

whats a decent vpip from the small blind...?

mine was 50 % which I think is crap..tightening it up now....

The lower the better. Mine is under 20%. Playing OOP sux because it's hard to get value from your good hands and you often get value towned on your mediocre ones. Play more in position. Play less OOP.

Chxdgt

10-25-2007, 09:38 AM

What sort of winrate over how many hands should I have before considering moving up in limits?

You should be moving up when your bankroll is ready and you feel that you have a solid understanding of your level and what is needed to beat the next level. Winrate is too variance oriented to be a solid determinant of when to move up.

Hebel

10-25-2007, 09:53 AM

how do I use players' aggression factors in determining the likelyhood they have a hand? Can you dissect aggression factors by street? Also, when I make a post, do I post the flop AF or the total AF?

The more aggro they are, generally speaking the more betting they are doing and hte less calling. Hence if a low AF player bets, he is more likely to have a hand. If a high AF player calls, he is less likely to have a hand. We usually post Total AF but if its on a one street decision using that street is probably better. PT and PAHUD will give it to you on a street by street basis

bozzer

10-25-2007, 09:56 AM

on a related some subject, what are some guideline F/T/R numbers for agression frequency, if any of you use that?

what aggression factor numbers do you guys have?

I dont have PT on my laptop but I heard something like 4x/2x/x is good, usually around 1.5 for x

Dead Nancy

10-25-2007, 11:16 AM

Why are so many avatars playing guitars? Because it rhymes?

They're not guitars, they're ukuleles. It's a BBV4L forum joke. Someone mentioned pua (pick up artist). Someone joked it was the Pennsylvania Ukulele Association. Hilarity ensued.

TTStrangler

10-25-2007, 11:31 AM

Why are there so many references to cats in here? Who is threadcat? Threadcat was referenced in the never fold KK contest thread (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=12534334&page=0&fpart=3& vc=1).

Pictures of people's pussy cats have been an internet staple since 1947. Closet lesbian housewives would share pictures of their pussies with other closet lesbian housewives instead of real life snapshots of themselves so that they could keep their identities secret, thereby insuring that they could keep living the American dream with their husbands and 2.4 children while not watching soap operas but making Hamburger Helper for supper.

And Threadcat is on loan from a pro wrestling forum in Egypt. One day he will be gone. He shall not be missed. 

For real, check out the BBV thread by Toddy where he had to watch his neighbors cat. BBV legends were born there.

jk1986

10-25-2007, 11:34 AM

Whats with the film cannister avatars?

 I think it's a default avatar choice if you don't want to search for one yourself.

fees

10-25-2007, 12:11 PM

what happened to all the uNL regs

 Moved on, moved up, moved away, still here, went to pocket 5's, busto, robusto, quit poker, got tempbanned, got permabanned, got IP banned, went back to school, quit school, joined the army, moved in with mommy, internet broke, got a job, lurk. I think that about covers everyone.

8Tdiamonds

10-25-2007, 12:13 PM

Is emc actually a winning player?

[b] Yes. But, personal questions about the mods is not within the scope of this thread.

Nato76

10-25-2007, 12:31 PM

AJ,

You mentioned that you found the optimum number of tables that you can play that maximizes your winrate. How many tables is that?

I think the majority of long time players find the optimal number of tables to be between 4 and 8, with a large majority of those being between 4 and 6. 6 is a good number for me personally.

But, it's a process and I've been playing online now for 3 years. You start with 2 and when you are comfortable there you just add one table at a time. 

Seconded about it being a process. There was a time when I couldnt play 2 tables at once, now I cant play 4 at once because its too boring. Practice makes perfect.

Wilpro

10-25-2007, 12:32 PM

Your playing 6 max 50nl, with no reads.
you raise medium hands from UTG to the button, in a row, all within your range of raising.
Hoping you can lists hands from about the middle of your range, and if checked to you on the flop, what flop you would continuation bet and what flops you wouldnt.

You have position in each hand but don't hit the flop in any hand.

Tough Q to answer. I would typically c-bet most all given 0 history/image. Typically, best flops to c-bet are flops such as Kxx or Axx (with whatever you have). I find those flops give me the most FE. 

I shy away from cbetting super-wet flops like T98 two suited, the reason being that lots of hands will continue on these boards and if the draw hits and you check, the villain can quite easily rep the draw and take you off your hand.

Greg P

10-25-2007, 12:42 PM

How many hands do you need on someone for their AF numbers to be meaningful/significant? Thanks.

Like all stats, you need a decent amount of hands. I would say maybe 500+?

Monster207

10-25-2007, 01:03 PM

Barring any metagame etc. at the micros will you always 3bet AK OOP? If not are you doing it the same amount OOP as well as in position? For example do you 3bet AK OOP like 80% and smooth call the rest of the time?
I find that I suck in reraised pots OOP but by just smooth calling I'm letting weaker hands take me off too much.
Sorry if this doesn't make sense... having a tough time trying to articulate it. Thanks in advance for any advice though.

 I would almost always 3-bet AK pf. there are definitely circumstances in which I wont (ie. nit opens UTG, i just call in pos). or sometimes vs. a super maniac i dont mind calling in position and letting him hang himself postflop. the thing with reraised pots is you can't win every one.

there are definitely times when you should c/f the flop. or not c-bet and just give up. good situations for this is like co opens, you 3-bet with AK, he calls. flop comes JT3 with 2/images/graemlins/spade.gifs and he checks to you. i check behind there alot. 

Ive been experimenting with smooth calling AK from the blinds recently, and though I would certainly never recommend that you do it 100% of the time, I've found that vs villains who are likely to cbet and give up that you can often keep the pot small with what is often the best hand, rather than bloating the pot OOP preflop and then shutting down after a cbet, which can be really expensive.

Monster207

10-25-2007, 01:13 PM

One more annoying question about AK and Im not even sure if this is going to be able to get a definite answer

You have AK and 3 bet a utg+1 raiser and he pushes. I understand that this is a very player specific but in general are you calling against the majority of players in say 10nl? 25nl? 50nl?
If this is too player dependent for an answer than thats fine too.. just thought I'd give this one a shot.

I would typically call but there can be made a case for folding I suppose, depending on the player. however, you should think about why you 3-bet him in the first place. if his calling range beats you (ie. he only calls reraises with QQ-AA/AK oop), then why 3-bet him to begin with? just depends i guess. 

Imo this is too player specific. I called this spot at 100nl today and the dude had 66, but last week I ran into AA/KK like every time. So there's no real good answer.

munkey

10-25-2007, 01:38 PM

BB what's a good basic raising range vs a chronic SB limper that can't find the fold Btn often on flop, general range B vB too FWIW?

Raise liberally at first to set the tone, then raise with the goods after that once he thinks you're full of crap all the time. 

Mainly a question for AJ;

What's your cashout (deposit /images/graemlins/tongue.gif) strategy , that enables you to move up and down the SSNL limits and still get monies out ?

Fortunately I haven't made a deposit since I started playing. I just cash out down to a certain number. Now, I'm cashing out to $8500 when playing NL200. Cashing out between $500-$1000 at a time to Epassporte. I've played exclusively at FTP for awhile now so haven't moved any money around lately.

Lostit

10-25-2007, 01:39 PM

I realize that this board is for general questions, but most threads relate to certain hands. I think by default, these hands happen to be the most spectacular, biggest winners, losers, etc by the posters in question. There are probably a bunch of other mistakes that we all make (individually) that we don't realize or don't bring up.

So my NOOB question is, what would be the best way to get feedback from other 2+2 regs that we see on a regular basis at the tables, but may not be friends with (or even aware that they are 2p2ers), as to what they see wrong with our game or how they like to attack us. I know we have an occasional thread for feedback for players on different sites, but it often gets long, fast, and most people do not get feedback on that thread (due to sheer volume of requests).

Am I missing a part to this board, or is there a mechanism in place for this already?

best idea is to just start compiling a list of people on AIM and chatting about hands with them. i know that i learned the most doing this, and i know that many msnl/hsnl guys have as well.

djj6835

10-25-2007, 01:39 PM

[ QUOTE ]
also, what is this "yeti theorem" i keep hearing about

 I believe its a partial BS theory that when a villain 3 bets a paired flop he has air 

[/ QUOTE ]

fyp

Lostit

10-25-2007, 01:42 PM

One more, who changed the location in my profile to "I ain't got my taco"?

 i dont think mods can change your location, only you. so maybe you were drunk or something. 

mods can change user's loc and we do so if they have an inappropriate one. But, yeah, you were probably drunk. 

Or high

thoman8r

10-25-2007, 01:43 PM

I always seem to struggle with playing AQ OOP from the blinds against a PFR from early or middle position. My default move is to 3-bet and if called, continue on the flop but it just seems wildly unprofitable. Should I just shutdown UI when called? Assume 100BB effective stacks and interested in responses when facing an unknown or a taggy reg at 25NL.

 I talked about this above if you want to check it out, in regards to AK. you can definitely c/f UI if you want, you dont have to c-bet every time you rr pf. it depends alot on the board and who called your rr. if he's the type to peel with any sort of pair then i would typically give up. 

As Orange says, you don't have to auto-cb every flop and that's pretty much the key. Much of the profit comes from them folding preflop to your 3B and from you hitting the flop. The CB part on missed flops is where the danger lies and money gets thrown down the toilet if you are CB'ing way too much.

And, don't be afraid to just call occasionally too in the blinds with AK/AQ and play the hand straightforward postflop.

Lostit

10-25-2007, 01:51 PM

I know we can't pick on the mods here, but I think this is more of an informational/educational question. Would some of the different mods mind posting the following, so that we can compare our results to theirs:

A.) Level played at (site irrelevant unless its IPoker)
b.) PTBB/100 monthly win rates for the last month or two, as long as they are indicative of how you normally run.

Although some may be winning players, you always feel like it should be more. I think some comparison numbers is a good sanity check.

So an answer from a Mod (and name of mod can be left out) might look like this

NL 50 Sep = 5.2, Aug = 4.9

Thats it.

 AP sep= 10 aug= 10 

NL100/200 on FTP last two months are 19k hands of NL100 at 8.72 and 32k hands of NL200 at 6.41. I can run that way if I don't tilt like an idiot, which is the reason I was playing NL50 a short 3 months ago 

Ive just moved up to NL100 and am doing well at 7ptbb/100 but over a small sample (bout 9000 hands). Before that I was at NL50 and sucking because I was tring to learn how to play LAG, but I think I got it now. When I was TAG I had 25k-ish hands at 50nl at 8ptbb/100.

Aug: 0 Sept 0 hands played, 0

Vitas23

10-25-2007, 03:35 PM

What is uNL?

This forum. u stands for micro. nl stands for No Limit. there's a previous post about it in this thread.

choccypie

10-25-2007, 04:22 PM

How do you work out what a minraise value is? Is it 2x your bet?

Yes, 2x the bet. Or 2x the bb if it is a preflop open. 

In pokertracker there are "folded SB/BB to steal" stats, what counts as a steal?

An open raise from the CO or Button.

WHITEBOYAEHS

10-25-2007, 04:33 PM

whats the longest stretch of time like documented for a downswing?? because about a month ago i was a .5/1 reg and lost about 10 buyins in 4k hands which i know is meaningless...then the same thing happened at 50 nl....now over 20k hands at 25 nl i am -1.82bb/100 for a whopping grand total of -4.62bb/100 over 36k hands.... i thought i was a winning player and this summer i beat 25 and 50 rather easily... any past experience/advice would be nice... thanks

Hebel

10-25-2007, 04:49 PM

is there a way i can determine the exact hand range someone raises pf from his pfr%? as in, if he has a pfr of 6, 10, 20, etc, to be able to put him on a range of specific hands?

 In short, no. You can only ever approximate and generalise. Dont sweat it too much, you dont need to really put someone on a precise range in order to play well.

HY77

10-25-2007, 04:52 PM

Is it possible to get rid of the * next to my name? I got it on my very first post by posting in OOT.

 Done. OOT no longer uses the star system so all users have to do is ask a mod and it can be removed and you are put back into the default title system.

AlexPwns

10-25-2007, 06:04 PM

Does DUYC = Do You See Why?

 DUCY= do you see why

crovax4444

10-25-2007, 06:26 PM

Clarifying my earlier question about dealing with mini-bets, I'll post an example and ask whether you guys feel just calling the mini-bet vs raising is appropriate:

UTG: $7
Hero (BTN): $16.40
SB: $8.35
BB: $1.75

Pre-Flop: 2http://www.legopoker.com/hh/images/diamond.gif 2http://www.legopoker.com/hh/images/club.gif dealt to Hero (BTN)
UTG raises to $0.20, Hero raises to $0.75

Now what if UTG only had $3 stacks? What if there was another player left to act, or another player that has already acted?

I suppose my question is what default line does one use to play against minibets vs shortstacks when your hand can't get implied odds?

Crovax

It's kind of a convoluted question again. But here goes. First, you can fold small pp's you know. Yup, you can.

Next, with the $7 stack I am calling 22 all day and playing no set no bet at NL10. With a $3 stack the only one in before me, I'd consider folding 22 pf.

There's some controversy as to what the exact stack sizes you should be looking at with the small pp's. Some people say 7:1 which is wrong and too low. Dbitel "proved" it should be 17:1, which seems a tad high to me. 15:1 or so is maybe a decent stack to bet ratio estimate. So, you have to call $0.20 vs a $3 stack which is right at 15:1. It's probably OK with the potential for one of the blinds maybe coming along. But it's really meh.

WHITEBOYAEHS

10-25-2007, 06:30 PM

wtf....no answer for my variance question guys??? i see you worked around me....

Here's the old saying: "Its not a downswing if you're a losing player". There is no set time period that denotes when its "no longer a downswing" but Id be taking a pretty good look at your play if I were you.

lol white. I didn't know the longest documented downswing, so I just left it for another mod to answer. CUT US SOME SLACK MAN. /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

vixticator

10-25-2007, 06:36 PM

How much different should range be from cutoff relative to button? If the button player is tight, play looser... if they are loose, tighten up?

 Thats a pretty open ended question. It depends on a lot of things, and not just the button/blinds but the rest of the table. Typically, my button range is about one or two percentage points more than the cutoff range, but as I said, it really depends.

castigar

10-25-2007, 07:23 PM

I'm a slightly winning player at NL50. Is CR worth the bux? 100$ for the signup fee seems like a lot...

it's definitely a nice thing to help. I would recommend it.

boardertj

10-25-2007, 07:59 PM

how do I make a graph of my results in PT?

Well, you could see a graph posted, notice that the name of the program is on the graph and then use google to find the program. Which is what I just did to find you this link: 

Poker Grapher (http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=149136)

WHITEBOYAEHS

10-25-2007, 08:02 PM

lol this thread is awesome

P0kerJunkie

10-25-2007, 09:05 PM

Where can I find a legend for all the poker tracker shorthand?
Stuff like VP$IP, for example. I know what this particular one means, but I'm not sure what they all mean, and it's tough to utilize pt without knowing them.
Thanks

Xanta

10-25-2007, 09:12 PM

I think the jargon dictionary is in the SSNL master sticky, lemme get you a link.

Edit: Here ya go

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Number=5988672

uwat1987

10-25-2007, 09:15 PM

Whats your recommended site for converting online hand histories to ones that can be posted on there? What about for B&M hands that I have notes for?

Xanta

10-25-2007, 09:38 PM

Online hands, www.legopoker.com (http://www.legopoker.com) is the nuts for most sites. B&M hands, just try to type it up by hand and make it look presentable, it doesn't have to look exactly like every other hand on the site.

uwat1987

10-25-2007, 09:56 PM

thanks!

P0kerJunkie

10-25-2007, 09:59 PM

Thanks man, that has a lot of good stuff on there. I didn't see a lot of the abbreviations for stats found in pokertracker, like VP$IP example from earlier. Any other links or anything, anyone?
Thanks

For the abbreviations on PokerTracker, just hover your mouse over the abbreviation and the full description of what the abbreviation is decribing shows up at the bottom of PT. And either in the help file or on the PokerTracker forums you can find how the stat is calculated if it's not obvious.

Hebel

10-25-2007, 10:27 PM

how do i turn fpps to cash on stars? what other bonuses do they offer instead of rakeback?

The Internet Gambling forum is where 2p2'ers go to talk about this topic. Off the top of my head you can buy a bonus. Or you can buy a product and sell it somehow to get the cash.

HY77

10-25-2007, 10:32 PM

You guys rule.
Are there any 2+2 mod awards we can nominate you for? I've never been part of a community where the mods were great like this.

Thank you. No, 2p2 has no mod awards.

GinaSD

10-25-2007, 10:50 PM

How do i make one of those cool graphs that show winnings or losses over a span of time? (i have a demo version of ptracker holdem, that is all).

See about 10 posts above this one.

Tuff Enuff

10-26-2007, 08:49 AM

How did the phrase "Its a tarp" instead of its a trap get started?

a. Misspelling is fun, LDO
b. I think it stems from a picture with that fish dude from star wars and a tarp

jus222

10-26-2007, 09:57 AM

Hi currently play 50nl my af stats are as follows PF 1.96 FLOP 4.48 TURN 2.75 RIVER 2.18 .Would be intersted to see what people think of these ,and also is there a post on ideal pokertracker figures ,or could someone link me up. Thanks in advance for all comments

There are no real "ideal" stats, as playing styles differ greatly between one another. However, having a AF of about 2 on each street means you are playing solid, aggressive poker. I think your AF per street is fine.

jk1986

10-26-2007, 12:25 PM

I've been offered a staking deal for the Sunday million where two higher stakes players pay for my entry into 10 sunday mill's and we split the overall profit 25/75 with makeup.
Do you think this seems like a fair deal, as I am pretty unsure whether I should accept or not :/

Milky

10-26-2007, 12:31 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I've been offered a staking deal for the Sunday million where two higher stakes players pay for my entry into 10 sunday mill's and we split the overall profit 25/75 with makeup.
Do you think this seems like a fair deal, as I am pretty unsure whether I should accept or not :/

[/ QUOTE ]

So you're saying you wouldn't have to pay anything unless you cash? This would be a freeroll for you then, i don't see why you wouldn't play.. unless you think your time is better spent doing something else.

HighOctane

10-26-2007, 12:50 PM

What is your 3-bet range: ep (noon-existent in 6 max), mp, lp, sb, bb.

I usually only 3-bet QQ+, AK. And it doesn't really matter to me what position since these hands are so strong. I have been hearing more that 3-betting small-mid pocket pairs from the blinds is better than just calling. What is the thinking behind this? I play 10NL.

Thanks for the Get your n00b out post.

jk1986

10-26-2007, 12:51 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I've been offered a staking deal for the Sunday million where two higher stakes players pay for my entry into 10 sunday mill's and we split the overall profit 25/75 with makeup.
Do you think this seems like a fair deal, as I am pretty unsure whether I should accept or not :/

[/ QUOTE ]

So you're saying you wouldn't have to pay anything unless you cash? This would be a freeroll for you then, i don't see why you wouldn't play.. unless you think your time is better spent doing something else.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well yeah, but with the makeup (If I make a profit in one tourney I have to pay for the buyins of the other tourney's before getting into profit) and the 25%, I do kinda wonder if its worth the time. I didn't mention that its gonna involve similar stakes live tournies too, which is going to be 30/70 instead. Just about to go play a £100 live tourney so I think I'm going to do it, although I do wonder if I'd be better off just multitabling 100nl, since I can't really expect a massive ROI from these tournies with the 25%.
Meh just need to think it through properly!, ty for the response

HighOctane

10-26-2007, 12:56 PM

Moved post so it was *Grunched*

What is your 3-bet range: ep (noon-existent in 6 max), mp, lp, sb, bb.

I usually only 3-bet QQ+, AK. And it doesn't really matter to me what position since these hands are so strong. I have been hearing more that 3-betting small-mid pocket pairs from the blinds is better than just calling. What is the thinking behind this? I play 10NL.

Thanks for the Get your n00b out post.

JoseRijo

10-26-2007, 01:12 PM

Could one of you define "stack-a-donk" for me? Does it refer to a specific play, like raising all-in on the turn to a small donk bet? Or is it just generic term?

Stack-a-donk is a line. You PFR and get called by someone behind you so you are OOP. You bet the flop and get called. Then you check raise the turn all-in.

VinnieC

10-26-2007, 02:40 PM

Hi folks,

I've been lurking here for a couple of months now, and I figured this would be as good a place as any to make my first post.

What does "spew" or "spewy" mean? Is it too loose-aggressive?

Also, what does QFT mean?

Thanks in advance. Already learned lots from reading and looking forward to joining in.

[b]Spew means to throw money into a bad situation. QFT = Quoted For Truth.

NauticaCX

10-26-2007, 02:52 PM

Thanks for doing this mods. I have a noob odds question.

Earlier today I was playing 10nl and I was dealt 77 OTB, I open raised, the SB 3 bet pot and then the BB cold called. SB has a half buy-in stack, BB has a full stack. Do I have the implied odds to set mine?

Size of hte raises matter

NauticaCX

10-26-2007, 06:13 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Thanks for doing this mods. I have a noob odds question.

Earlier today I was playing 10nl and I was dealt 77 OTB, I open raised, the SB 3 bet pot and then the BB cold called. SB has a half buy-in stack, BB has a full stack. Do I have the implied odds to set mine?

Size of hte raises matter 

[/ QUOTE ]

I raised to 0.35c on button, SB raised to 1.15$, BB cold called. SB had around 6$ left, BB and me both had ~12$. Sorry for being unclear before.

TylerT

10-26-2007, 06:16 PM

What is "Aggression Factor" in PT/PAHUD? How is it calculated and how should it be interpreted?

Check this thread, im pretty sure this was answered. If not the formula is in PT

hennnerz

10-26-2007, 06:42 PM

Is there a hand converter which will allow me to enter hands and bet sizes myself. So I can convert and hand from a live game and display it online? If so, where?

shark_fishin

10-26-2007, 07:02 PM

if your a professional bonus whore, what do you do when you run out of sites to whore? :-\

also, is this a good idea for a breakeven 25NL player who is having real problems upping his winrate?

Go to other sites? In the US its hard. For the 25nl player, its good to have a healthy roll so you will no worry as much

pegboy

10-26-2007, 08:14 PM

Thanks for this thread.

I'm a short ring limit player who just switched to NL for the first time. I won at 2/4 short until Sept of this year. I needed a change. I've beaten 10nl for about 25 buy-ins and I'm just starting to play 25nl. I'm a part time player and I'm having a hard time figuring what my clearance rate will be for short ring 25nl? If I play 2 tables is it even close to 1/2 limit? I expect to win more at NL but I wonder if I'll clear so little in rake that I'll have a hard time whoring?

Thoughts on the comparison?

Jack Bando

10-26-2007, 11:05 PM

What's the differences in degree of dificulty in levels (In general and at Stars)? And by that I mean, if you'd consider 50NL a 10 out of 10 in toughness, is 25NL a 10 (same game just twice the price) or is it a 2 (a joke of a level to 50NLers)

(I know this is kind of a hard q to answer, but any help would be good)

When I played micros, 25nl and 50nl were the same. there were relatively few comparisons. these days, i'm sure there is somewhat of a gap. i think that the first real gap is 50nl -> 100nl though.

Jw513

10-26-2007, 11:38 PM

What does LDO mean?

Also, what is a good hand sample size to have before taking a look at my PT stats (to check for leaks)?

look above- ldo= like duh obv

you probably need like 30k hands+ to determine a good sample size, probably even more.

doublehawk

10-28-2007, 08:56 AM

What do the symbols /images/graemlins/spade.gif /images/graemlins/diamond.gif /images/graemlins/heart.gif /images/graemlins/club.gif next to certain threads in the forum mean?

Usually nothing. There are symbols, most are too lazy/apathetic to change from the default

larry31

10-28-2007, 10:01 AM

whats the difference between a cold call a flat call and a smooth call please

I believe it has to do with the number of callers. A cold call is calling more than one raise, a flat call is calling a raise, both PF. I think a smooth call is calling one bet PF. But this distinction is arbitrary.

bored

10-28-2007, 03:45 PM

I've been trolling around BBV/BBV4Life/OOT/ and the other NL forums, and I've been wondering this so I guess this is as good a place as any to ask...

Who is Grimstar(sp?)? Why is he famous/infamous? What does being Grimstarred mean? I gather he is a HSNL poster, but what did he do?

Grimstarr is a pimply faced kid that had a meteoric rise from a SSNL grinder to a HSNL player in like 6 months. He tries to get attention a lot. To be Grimmed means to back out on a flip

mojed

10-28-2007, 07:40 PM

When people talk about buddy lists (ie people they follow to a table to take their monies), do they use some inherent software feature of the site to automatically tell them where their buddies are? Or have a list in word say, and just use the normal search feature (seems time consuming)? Or perhaps there's some software to find people automatically to save time?

Thanks.

deadcat3x

10-29-2007, 01:36 AM

how do i post a hand in the forums

check above, this Q has been answered.

EatMoPie

10-29-2007, 02:23 AM

If a player has a subscription to cardrunners but has limited online poker experience and starts with 100$ on a poker site, would it be reasonable to start at .05/.1 or should this player start at .01/.02?

I feel like the concepts taught in cardrunners don't apply much at all to the 1c/2c games and that learning the game would be far better at a slightly higher stake such as .05/.1.

WHITEBOYAEHS

10-29-2007, 02:23 AM

why are some questions here answered and ones before it arent?
it seems like all the interesting questions that i would like to know the answer to are being ignored, while the easy boring ones are instad. i know this is going to obv be ignored but has anyone else noticed this?

mtlchris

10-29-2007, 02:50 AM

at nl10 and nl25 I fold pretty much anything to check minraises. This stems from staking off with AK TPTK many many times. Is this bad?

Profish2285

10-29-2007, 07:51 PM

Roughly how many hands do you want on yourself in your database before deciding that you have a fairly accurate number? If I am doing well at NL25 for say 25000 hands, is that a decent indicator that its time to move up? This is of course assuming I am properly rolled with at least 20 buy ins.

 Baluga whale said that when attempting to move up, play 25,000 hands at the current level, evaluate, and decide. I say you should move up when you feel you are ready. When you are ready you will know

ronitonline

10-30-2007, 05:43 AM

I think one of my biggest "leaks" would be tableselection. I play on FTP so Spadeeye or whatever is out of the question and SixthSense is just absurd for price, especially if you are a uNL or SSNL player (I moved to uNL to fix leaks).

What type of things are you doing when it comes to table selection? I am thinking about just using FTTO to open up 10-12 tables and joining/joining waiting list for the best looking tables.

Profish2285

10-30-2007, 01:34 PM

Okay I am having trouble understanding what exactly poker tracker stats even mean on villains. Could someone give me a rough idea what exactly the vpip/pfr/AF represent? I know what they literally mean, but like I am having trouble in spots figuring out if someone is loose aggro, loose passive, tight aggro, or tight passive. For example, I am unsure how to classify a 24/14/2.

Genesis

10-30-2007, 01:52 PM

Where can I post about looking for a coach? I didn't want to make a new thread for it in uNL unless its allowed. I saw the list in SSNL, but I'm only playing 10 and 25NL right now and they are expensive. Are there any good, affordable coaches for uNL?

 This is a really sensitive subject, ill expand when I has the sober

VinnieC

10-31-2007, 01:22 AM

Ok, definite noob question: I noticed in some earlier posts (mostly related to moving to 6-max) that they refer to the HUSH forum. What is that (Heads Up ...)? I can't seem to find it.

Thanks.

Genesis

10-31-2007, 01:26 AM

^^^^^^^^
I think this is what you're looking for, under 'Other Poker'
Heads Up (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/postlist.php?Cat=&Board=realheadsup)

meleader2

11-02-2007, 10:39 AM

i feel dumb asking this, but [censored] it:

i have 9 outs with a flush draw on the flop. apparently with 9 outs i have 20% equity. y is it 1/4 to hit though? is that with 2 cards?

so if that's the case, by the turn, if i ahven't hit it yet i still ahve 9 outs, so it should be 1/5 to hit the river. correct?

also, by outs, can someone list off my equity %'s? also does it change per street?

2 cards to come:

6 outs = 12.5%
9 outs = 20%, etc

1 card to come: (?)

Quester

11-02-2007, 10:47 AM

[ QUOTE ]
i feel dumb asking this, but [censored] it:

i have 9 outs with a flush draw on the flop. apparently with 9 outs i have 20% equity. y is it 1/4 to hit though? is that with 2 cards?

so if that's the case, by the turn, if i ahven't hit it yet i still ahve 9 outs, so it should be 1/5 to hit the river. correct?

also, by outs, can someone list off my equity %'s? also does it change per street?

2 cards to come:

6 outs = 12.5%
9 outs = 20%, etc

1 card to come: (?)

[/ QUOTE ]

Rule of 2 and 4:

2 cards to come - Your equity is your number of outs times 4. So 9 outs on the flop means you have about 9*4 = 36% equity in the pot (assuming you go to showdown).

1 card to come - Your equity is your number of outs times 2. So 9 outs on the turn gives you 9*2 = 18% to hit on the river.

You can use the 2 rule on the flop instead of the 4 rule if you think your reverse implied odds are high (e.g. your villain will bet big into you on the turn and you don't want to commit just yet).

You need to adjust your equity up slightly when you have a small number of outs, e.g. if you have 2 outs on the turn your equity isn't 2*2 = 4%, but probably more like 7-8% or so.

You also need to adjust down slightly if you have a large number of outs, e.g. you have 13 outs on the flop your equity isn't 13*4 = 52%, but more like 48-49%.

Of course, the difference between 52% and 49% isn't substantial, and the difference between 4% and 7% also isn't substantial. Using the 2 and 4 rule to estimate your equity is close enough in almost all real-world situations.

You have to remember to discount your outs based on your opponent's range, cards you suspect are no longer in play, and redraw possibilities for your opponent (e.g. you make a flush on a paired board, he has a chance of filling up).

Quester

11-02-2007, 10:55 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I think one of my biggest "leaks" would be tableselection. I play on FTP so Spadeeye or whatever is out of the question and SixthSense is just absurd for price, especially if you are a uNL or SSNL player (I moved to uNL to fix leaks).

What type of things are you doing when it comes to table selection? I am thinking about just using FTTO to open up 10-12 tables and joining/joining waiting list for the best looking tables.

[/ QUOTE ]

Personally I don't like sitting on waiting lists unless I know there is a huge fish on that table with a big stack.

I just sit at tables that are 4-5 handed, never on the left of a player I know is good. At NL50, I'm looking at the lobby stats for an average pot size of at least $5-6 with 38% players to the flop or higher, maybe around 70-80 hands per hour. Too many hands per hour means new table or some players are sitting out, too few means it may be a tough table and some TAG is controlling the game.

I know a few good players just sit at an empty table, since fishies don't like waiting either. They'll just sit down and donate. Good for HU practice as well.

I mark players that I know are TAG (or otherwise "good") with a red mark. I mark players that I know are loose (or otherwise "bad") with a green mark. Most green marks don't stay around long enough or play enough hands for me to see them often, but this at least lets me avoid the "good" players that are multi-tabling regulars. I'll sit at tables with 1 red mark if the rest are unknowns. I'll only sit at tables with 2 red marks if I can sit on the left of a green mark. I think this method of marking players is helpful, since I don't have to wait for my HUD or horrible memory to know if I should avoid them or not. I also use a few other colors if I have specific reads on someone or want to watch them for other purposes.

meleader2

11-02-2007, 11:00 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
i feel dumb asking this, but [censored] it:

i have 9 outs with a flush draw on the flop. apparently with 9 outs i have 20% equity. y is it 1/4 to hit though? is that with 2 cards?

so if that's the case, by the turn, if i ahven't hit it yet i still ahve 9 outs, so it should be 1/5 to hit the river. correct?

also, by outs, can someone list off my equity %'s? also does it change per street?

2 cards to come:

6 outs = 12.5%
9 outs = 20%, etc

1 card to come: (?)

[/ QUOTE ]

Rule of 2 and 4:

2 cards to come - Your equity is your number of outs times 4. So 9 outs on the flop means you have about 9*4 = 36% equity in the pot (assuming you go to showdown).

1 card to come - Your equity is your number of outs times 2. So 9 outs on the turn gives you 9*2 = 18% to hit on the river.

You can use the 2 rule on the flop instead of the 4 rule if you think your reverse implied odds are high (e.g. your villain will bet big into you on the turn and you don't want to commit just yet).

You need to adjust your equity up slightly when you have a small number of outs, e.g. if you have 2 outs on the turn your equity isn't 2*2 = 4%, but probably more like 7-8% or so.

You also need to adjust down slightly if you have a large number of outs, e.g. you have 13 outs on the flop your equity isn't 13*4 = 52%, but more like 48-49%.

Of course, the difference between 52% and 49% isn't substantial, and the difference between 4% and 7% also isn't substantial. Using the 2 and 4 rule to estimate your equity is close enough in almost all real-world situations.

You have to remember to discount your outs based on your opponent's range, cards you suspect are no longer in play, and redraw possibilities for your opponent (e.g. you make a flush on a paired board, he has a chance of filling up).

[/ QUOTE ]

printed. thank you.

Pokey

11-02-2007, 11:47 AM

Oh Great Gurus of the Micro Forums -- I, your humble servant, have a burning question to ask.

I play $x.xx/$x.xx online, but I'm planning a trip to Las Vegas. What stakes at a live table would be comparable to my usual game?

Would your answer change if the trip were to Atlantic City instead? How about if it were to a local tribal casino?

meleader2

11-02-2007, 11:50 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Oh Great Gurus of the Micro Forums -- I, your humble servant, have a burning question to ask.

I play $x.xx/$x.xx online, but I'm planning a trip to Las Vegas. What stakes at a live table would be comparable to my usual game?

Would your answer change if the trip were to Atlantic City instead? How about if it were to a local tribal casino?

[/ QUOTE ]

i think it depends on the structure of the game. when i went to vegas i played 1/3 at the wynn and felt comfortable, i played some 5/10 @ bellagio and felt out of place. at the local tribe casino i play 1/2 (not anymore) but its a 100max buyin with a mandatory 3$ rake (christ) and a 1$ drop for a BBJ.

real weak.

HOWEVER, the 5/10 there plays 2/5 with 10 to bring in so they can get in on the BBJ as well (white chips for the drop, therefore they wanted in, had to drop the blinds but 10$ to bring in still) very very lucrative as u can imagine.

so 50nl -> 1/3 @ wynn (u can buy in deep, no cap) can't help u about anywhere else though, that was my fav.

Quester

11-02-2007, 11:59 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Oh Great Gurus of the Micro Forums -- I, your humble servant, have a burning question to ask.

I play $x.xx/$x.xx online, but I'm planning a trip to Las Vegas. What stakes at a live table would be comparable to my usual game?

Would your answer change if the trip were to Atlantic City instead? How about if it were to a local tribal casino?

[/ QUOTE ]

I played 1/2 at the MGM a few months ago and it was softer than 0.01/0.02 online, take that FWIW. Quick word of advice, make your preflop raises bigger than 4x. I would raise to 5x UTG and get 6 callers. Pretty ridiculous. High variance live. I also played a little 2/5 which was only marginally tougher. Unfortunately I busted out with JJ on a KQJ board to AT, but what are you going to do.

Chomp

11-02-2007, 12:25 PM

1. Which standard equity match-ups do you have consigned to memory?

2. How do you judge whether the dead money in a pot is enough to make up for any equity shortfall you have when faced with an ai decision? Is this at best a guesstimation at the table until you can review/Stove it later?

3. I open JQs in position, isolating a limper, flop Kxx, villain chks, I cb, villain calls, turn meh, villain checks again...in this spot, I repeatedly make a read of a weak made hand on dry boards (typically a small pp, or a crappy flopped 2nd pair).

So my question is, should I be trying to get AVERAGE villains to fold these hands, assuming I am telling a reasonable story myself? I HATE checking this behind and getting shown pocket 55 or whatever, but am never really sure if I should even be TRYING to get him to fold at some point. (And clearly, the answer is "it depends", but any general thoughts appreciated).

Arcturus

11-03-2007, 01:14 PM

[ QUOTE ]
When people talk about buddy lists (ie people they follow to a table to take their monies), do they use some inherent software feature of the site to automatically tell them where their buddies are? Or have a list in word say, and just use the normal search feature (seems time consuming)? Or perhaps there's some software to find people automatically to save time?

Thanks.

[/ QUOTE ]

LOL. I was going to post this, but wanted to make sure it wasn't addressed yet. I don't see a response though. I'm in interested in PokerStars.

Logun

11-03-2007, 04:05 PM

I play on FTP and my table selection consists of only looking at the Plr/Flp average - am I doing myself a disservice by not looking into table selection software?

Kukla

11-03-2007, 11:05 PM

Hero raise 4bb from MP, Villain(for example 20/15/2) 3bet from Btn to 12bb, we can't say exactly what his range, but we assume that it is above 66+,AJs+,KQs,AJo+,KQo. And we know that he is agressive postflop, so he may bet/3bet FD+overs e.t.c.

1.Can i call his 3bet with one of these hands:
a)J/images/graemlins/heart.gif T/images/graemlins/heart.gif
b)6/images/graemlins/spade.gif 5/images/graemlins/spade.gif
c)2/images/graemlins/diamond.gif 2/images/graemlins/club.gif
d)9/images/graemlins/club.gif 7/images/graemlins/club.gif

2.How change our calling range if:
a)he 3bet us flat
b)we had position on him

mojed

11-03-2007, 11:42 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Hero raise 4bb from MP, Villain(for example 20/15/2) 3bet from Btn to 12bb, we can't say exactly what his range, but we assume that it is above 66+,AJs+,KQs,AJo+,KQo. And we know that he is agressive postflop, so he may bet/3bet FD+overs e.t.c.

1.Can i call his 3bet with one of these hands:
a)J/images/graemlins/heart.gif T/images/graemlins/heart.gif
b)6/images/graemlins/spade.gif 5/images/graemlins/spade.gif
c)2/images/graemlins/diamond.gif 2/images/graemlins/club.gif
d)9/images/graemlins/club.gif 7/images/graemlins/club.gif

2.How change our calling range if:
a)he 3bet us flat
b)we had position on him

[/ QUOTE ]

Depends hugely on stack sizes.

Assuming 100BB stacks, I'm folding OOP all day long (all 4 hands) and cutting down the number of marginal hands I raise with in MP while the button has such a wide 3-bet range. Then I'm taking him to value town with AK, AQ and my high PPs.

Kukla

11-03-2007, 11:57 PM

yes, stacks is 100bb. But how size of his 3bet and our position influences to my calling range?

One more questions:
Villain(Button) is unknow just sit down on this table. Stacks are 100b. Hero raise xx 4bb from MP,CO call, Button reraise 16bb. With what range of hands we may call here?

mojed

11-04-2007, 12:24 AM

People may disagree with me, but I don't think position makes a huge difference here with 100BB stacks and a 3-bet to 12BB, the reason being that a lot of the money has gone in preflop so there's less maneuvering postflop. This all changes if the villain has some exploitable tendencies after the flop, such as bet sizing his missed hands differently to made hands etc.

The size of the 3-bet obviously influences our implied odds, I'm calling a min 3-bet with 22. Less sure about the suited connectors and one gappers.

Also, because we have the luxury of such a well defined 3-bet range, if we also have a well defined range of how the villain handles a 4 bet, you may find 4 betting light exploits this villain's 3 bet range. The 3-bet range you described is 8.9% of all hands. Suppose the villain will fold everything but QQ+ and AK to a 4-bet, which is 2.6% of all hands. This means the villain folds 70.8% of his 3-bet hands to a 4 bet. So if we make it 36BB total, we are risking 32BB to win 17.5BB (12 + 4 + 1.5). 70.8% of the time we win 17.5BB (0.708*17.5 = 12.39BB), and 29.2% of the time we lose 32BB (0.292*-32 = -9.344BB). In total a light 4-bet wins us about 3BB on average. Many people who 3-bet fairly light as you described don't defend 4 bets with enough of their range and are thus exploitable. So chuck in a 4 bet occasionally, while mostly folding with your SCs. It'll help balance your 4-bets for value too.

jessica1994

11-04-2007, 12:54 AM

flappenfa**ot or whatever on PP NL25 u are the worst player in the history of poker and i hate your guts.

gimme a B
gimme an A
gimme an N

What does that spell?

BAN BAN BAN

meleader2

11-04-2007, 06:34 PM

disagreement a friend and i r having:

[ QUOTE ]
[17:29] Dmacm: 6max u play kq any position?
[17:29] meleader2: no
[17:29] meleader2: button/CO
[17:29] Dmacm: wtf
[17:29] meleader2: or earlier if a donk behind me
[17:29] Dmacm: kq>>>>>>>>>>>>22
[17:29] meleader2: not against floaters
[17:29] Dmacm: why you want to hit a home run vs them with 222?
[17:30] meleader2: homerun?
[17:30] meleader2: bay
[17:30] meleader2: this isn't baseball
[17:30] Dmacm: 22 utg limp call for set value which you never get in 6 max anyway?
[17:30] meleader2: its pokerball
[17:30] Dmacm: or raise?
[17:30] meleader2: raise
[17:30] Dmacm: id play kq any position
[17:30] meleader2: its a mistake
[17:30] Dmacm: post that q

[/ QUOTE ]

Ill play it in any position