KK 3 bet pot, 4 way action, drawy heavy board

[Profish2285]

BTN likes to steal alot and 3 bets light. Others are unknown.

Full Tilt Poker, $0.10/$0.25 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 6 Players
LegoPoker (http://www.legopoker.com)Hand History Converter (http://www.legopoker.com/hh)

MP: $30.65
CO: $25.70
BTN: $30.80
Hero (SB): $26.10
BB: $17.70
UTG: $57.40

Pre-Flop: K/images/graemlins/heart.gif K/images/graemlins/spade.gif dealt to Hero (SB)
2 folds, <font color="red">CO raises to $0.85</font>, BTN calls $0.85, <font color="red">Hero raises to $4.65</font>, BB calls $4.40, CO calls $3.80, BTN calls $3.80

Flop: ($18.60) J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif Q/images/graemlins/club.gif (4 Players)
Hero...., <font color="red">

[Profish2285]

Bump, I really had no idea what to do here so any advice would be appreciated.

[Genesis]

I just push the flop, big pot and you have an overpair plus OESD - good enough for me.

[STARSCREAM.]

Since the hands that usually cold call 3bets are like 88+ and AK, i'm check folding this flop. Being multi way, you don't really have to worry about being bluffed, and if it checks around, you may even be ahead. But losing to TT, JJ, QQ, and AK, just puts you too behind the BB's calling range.

[Profish2285]

See that was my initial reaction but doesnt this board hit everyones range? AK is reasonable to be out there and so is everything on that flop. I cant bet/fold this flop as I will have so much invested already. I am not sure if I can check/call here, and check/fold seems so weak.

[STARSCREAM.]

[ QUOTE ]
I just push the flop, big pot and you have an overpair plus OESD - good enough for me.

[/ QUOTE ]

What calls you that you're ahead of, and what folds that you beat? Pushing this flop seems terrible.

[traz]

I definitely check and see what happens

[Profish2285]

Flop: ($18.60) J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif Q/images/graemlins/club.gif (4 Players)
Hero checks, <font color="red">BB bets $13.05 and is All-In</font>, <font color="red">CO raises to $21.05 and is All-In</font>, BTN folds, Hero....

[cooker3]

Yuck, that is a pretty nasty spot
I check and lean towards a c/f

[Genesis]

[ QUOTE ]
What calls you that you're ahead of, and what folds that you beat? Pushing this flop seems terrible.

[/ QUOTE ] Yeah, I agree now. Not much calls that we are ahead of, almost everything calls that we are behind.

[wslee00]

well - you have the odds to call this assuming all the aces are live. So sure why not, call and cross your fingers.

[Profish2285]

Do I have odds to call if AK is at least a decent possibility for one of the two villains?

[traz]

At the loosest of ranges, you don't get dealt the right odds. Sucks, but without reads I probably cf

[RedSoxFan]

I check/call small bets- I don't think you're ahead of the avg player calling a 3bet pre flop.

As far as the dude who said he'd push- you likely don't have 8 outs. Chances are that if 4 people called bets of 18BB preflop- a few of those aces are gone. So you probably only have 6 outs and AK is probably there as well so you're splitting the pot if another ace comes(after donking off a lot of $$$ to the rake).

I pokerstoved it- gave two of the players the top 5% of hands and 1 player (the calling station) the top 10% of hands. I don't see many more hands outside of this range going to the flop in this situation.


Hand 0: 17.129% 13.87% 03.26% 9160382 2155195.67 { KhKs }
Hand 1: 35.725% 32.54% 03.19% 21494376 2106125.50 { 99+, AJs+, KQs, AKo }
Hand 2: 35.725% 32.54% 03.19% 21494376 2106125.50 { 99+, AJs+, KQs, AKo }
Hand 3: 11.420% 10.21% 01.21% 6744660 799599.33 { 22+, ATs+, KQs, AJo+ }

[Profish2285]

I really cant ever be ahead here or even drawing live too often can I?

[RedSoxFan]

ok- now that you posted more action while I was writing my above sermon- you have to believe some of your outs are taken and I doubt if 9 comes, your K high straight is good. You probably are chasing 2 outs to split.

It sucks but I think it's a fold.

[EMc]

I think it was BobbosFitos or limon or someone that good that said part of the problem this OP was having was that he was looking for a big pot with KK or AA and didnt get hte right circumstances and was now confused. Its ok if you dont always get a big pot with these hands especially on a board like this.

[Profish2285]

Yea, I called because I am an idiot and the second I pressed call, before I even saw their cards, I asked myself why did I just do that. I ended up sucking out big time going runner runner boat though, so I will take that gift and fold next time. The original guy who shoved had 56s for 6 high no draw, and the next guy had AK for the nuts (ouch).

[Nemesis69]

[ QUOTE ]
Yea, I called because I am an idiot and the second I pressed call, before I even saw their cards, I asked myself why did I just do that. I ended up sucking out big time going runner runner boat though, so I will take that gift and fold next time. The original guy who shoved had 56s for 6 high no draw, and the next guy had AK for the nuts (ouch).

[/ QUOTE ]

IT WAS YOU? [censored] /images/graemlins/crazy.gif

[Profish2285]

You had AK? If that was you.....sorry.

[EMc]

he had 56 LDO

[Profish2285]

Now THAT would be funny