25NL JJ with a 3bet from SB

[duke186]

I don't have this history but I remember the important stuff. THis is on Full Tilt.

Villain is like 22/20/13 over about 150 hands that I have on him, so he's solid for this level. Has not done anything out of line. I've been looseish, maybe 25/18 or something around that, and aggressive.

6max, 100bb effective, I pick up J /images/graemlins/heart.gifJ /images/graemlins/spade.gif and I open to $.85

Villain 3 bets to $3.25 from the SB, I call.

Flop is 2 /images/graemlins/heart.gif2 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif5 /images/graemlins/club.gif

He checks, I bet $4 (about 2/3 pot).

He raises to $11, I shove.

4 bet preflop?
Check flop?
Fold to c/r?
Or do people like the shove?

I can see him 3 betting something like 77+ AJs+ AQo+ but i guess his range narrows after the c/r.

[duke186]

bump

[ajmargarine]

In my experience, this action is usually a pp bigger than JJ.

[Spurious]

i might consider 4bet AI preflop, since he's pretty loose and could be 3betting with a ton of hands. but he wouldnt call with hands you beat, so nevermind /images/graemlins/smile.gif

flop bet seems fine
if his AF is 13, then call his flop bet.
call him down, i guess he could be bluffing.
13 AF is ridiculous.

I think shove is not necessary, maybe even wrong. I dont know what his calling range is, but i guess his calling range contains more hands that have you beat than ones you beat.

[Danastasio1]

If he sees you as loose, I really advocate a 4bet. You have to think his 3bet range, against you, is wide enough to make JJ a favorite vs Villain. Obviously the c/r greatly narrows his holdings to a few hands that dominate yours, so I fold on the flop, at these stakes with Villain's stats, I tend to buy what he's telling me, but 200NL not so sure. He's leading out on the flop with high cards AK/AQ more often than not. ^Mod says it best.

[Spurious]

[ QUOTE ]
I tend to buy what he's telling me, but 200NL not so sure. ^Mod says it best.

[/ QUOTE ]

His stats say, that he's hyper-aggressive...

[Danastasio1]

Wow, thought that was a 3, thanks Spurious.

[Danastasio1]

In that case, always shove.

[Spurious]

[ QUOTE ]
In that case, always shove.

[/ QUOTE ]

why shove? i think shoving sucks, because only better hands will call.
It's WA/WB, so calling down sounds good, imo.

[duke186]

i was very confused about his flop c/r. I always found that big hands lead when they are oop in a 3bet pot.

and why shove? because i still have fold equity, from AK type hands and air, calling down allows him to catch up, so i dont like it, either the flop is a fold or a shove i think.

[Genesis]

A 13 AF doesn't necessarily mean the guy is crazy aggressive. He could just be extremely selective, either betting/raising or folding - no calling. Most likely it is him being selective and I bet we are crushed after the c/r.

Edit: I would have considered two lines here, either bet/fold when checked to or just check it through and see if we can get a cheap showdown.

[Spurious]

we are crushed obviously, because the hand was posted /images/graemlins/wink.gif

i still think if we push he calls with only better hands

[Eric Yang]

uhhh this hand telegraphs strength like none other. Sure the guy is a hyperaggressive crazy guy but if he didn't have the hand he would have just continuation betted the flop, which keeps in line with his stats. as he played this, it screams KK or AA, and a fold is in order after the c/r. In my experience, 25nlers like this like to get "tricky" by checking to show weakness or some [censored] and then raising AI and pray you call. Just wait till next time you pick up the fh and then call that [censored] down. But in any case shoving is terrible because only hands that beat you will call.

[duke186]

[ QUOTE ]
we are crushed obviously, because the hand was posted /images/graemlins/wink.gif

i still think if we push he calls with only better hands

[/ QUOTE ]

No, actually, he is 2p2 which I didnt know at the time, and he had A 10. I just thought it was a good hand for discussion.

Personally against this type of player I think the play is just slightly +EV.

I'll go through my thought process. He 3 bet more than pot, indicating to me that his range was more of an AK type hand or 77-1010 than AA-KK. I think people will pot or raise slightly less than pot with AA KK because they want to play for stacks not just for the preflop money.

I've thought about it and i just dont think a player this aggressive is not gonna lead and is going to be this tricky with AA KK. His range is polarized towards 66-1010 AJo+ AQs+ which im ahead of by a lot.

And i think calling the flop is terrible, if a QKA comes off i have no idea what to do if he shoves.

[Spurious]

he called your shove?

is he serious ?!

[duke186]

he folded