Legality of Kahnawake Server Farms???

[Chino Brown]

For me, this whole AP scandal has really brought some more transparency to the way online poker sites are run. But after reading up a little on the situation with which most sites still in the US are run from, I am left confused. First off, it appears the Canadian govt has publicly stated many times to the press that the Kahnawake server farms are illegal by Canadian law. If this is true, why hasn't the govt stepped in and shut down Kahnawake's online gambling business? Mind you, the articles in which someone from the CAN govt claimed this are all from several years ago, I think the most recent being 2004. So, why then has the Kahn. operation been running for so long with apparently no disruption? Also, how long can Kahn. continue to run its operations before the govt shuts them down? Will the govt ever step in and intervene given that relations b/w Natives and the CAN govt appear shaky at best?

Secondly, it appears that the legal situation of online poker in Canada appears to be very similar to the legal situation in the US, in that it is still very much in a grey area and open to interpretation. So, why then would so many reputable and trusted sites base their operations in a country which might decide against the legality of online poker at anytime in the future? Why not base it in a country like the UK where it seems to be explicitly legal? If the CAN govt actually does act and moves in on the Kahnawake operation what will happen to online poker? Are the sites ready to move and set up shop somewhere else overnight?

Finally, the Mohawks of Kahnawake appear to be justifying their online gambling business on their right to sovereignty and independence from provincial/federal governments. While this has yet to be decided in a court of law(at least that i know of), it appears to have kept the govt at bay for now. So if this reasoning has worked for so long in Canada, why haven't any Native tribes in the US set up similar online gaming operations on the basis of sovereignty/independence from govt?

Sorry for posting so many questions, but these are issues I really need clarification on and I haven't read anything yet that provides it. Thanks!

[Legislurker]

Because the Canadians are pussies when dealing with the native Nations. Forced missionaries, orphanages and molesting after US style theft and genocide make them a bit recalcitrant to try and enforce something that may not actually be illegal.
They let them club seals to death, machine gun whales, beat and molest their own kids, and generally go to hell with some tax money to ease the burdens of life. Not much different than we do here.

[Skallagrim]

Thats a really bad over genrelization of Mohawks, Legislurker. Everything you generalize about them could be applied to most American groups too - how about republican senators for example, or Mormons?

The Kahnawake Mohawks maintain that they are indeed a sovereign nation and, outside of specifc treaty obligations, can do what they please. As I recall, the last time the Canadians tried to make them submit to authority they armed themselves and fought. The Canadians in general dont like the idea of a modern indian war, so the Mohawks can get away with quite a bit. And, for the sake of my online poker play, thank god they do. Also, I may have to soon start buying cigarettes from them /images/graemlins/wink.gif .

Skallagrim

[smoking blunt]

Actually the natives do get away w pretty much everything and often become a nuisance (blackades etc). But more power to them to host our sites.

[joeker]

Kahnawake is indeed a sovereign nation, plus there are no laws in Canada outlawing online poker or gambling, nor has Canadian law enforcement tried to prosecute gambling sites.

The situation in Canada is very different then America, and even if they pass laws outlawing online gambling Kahnawake would not be covered by them.

[Legislurker]

Ok if you prefer, Canada has a lot of problems dealing directly with their native Nations due to a lot of guilt from being [censored] in the past. They really have difficulty standing up to something illicit going on inside the borders.
They send a check, make some noises about reform and help, but really just ignore the whoel situation. Sounds a lot like the Dept of the Interior with checks that are bigger.

[Chino Brown]

[ QUOTE ]
Kahnawake is indeed a sovereign nation, plus there are no laws in Canada outlawing online poker or gambling, nor has Canadian law enforcement tried to prosecute gambling sites.

The situation in Canada is very different then America, and even if they pass laws outlawing online gambling Kahnawake would not be covered by them.

[/ QUOTE ]

How is the situation very much different in Canada? As far as I am aware there are no laws in the US banning online poker either. And what about the many reservations in the US? Are they not considered sovereign nations as well? If they are why haven't any tribes followed in Kahnawake's footsteps?

[Chino Brown]

[ QUOTE ]
The Kahnawake Mohawks maintain that they are indeed a sovereign nation and, outside of specifc treaty obligations, can do what they please. As I recall, the last time the Canadians tried to make them submit to authority they armed themselves and fought. The Canadians in general dont like the idea of a modern indian war, so the Mohawks can get away with quite a bit. And, for the sake of my online poker play, thank god they do. Also, I may have to soon start buying cigarettes from them /images/graemlins/wink.gif .

Skallagrim

[/ QUOTE ]

This stand down b/w the Mohawks and the CAN govt happened in 1990. How much longer will the Canadians simply let the Mohawks do what they please just b/c they don't want to look like bad guys? This is a serious question as I am not from Canada and I know very little of the legal situation there.

[Chino Brown]

[ QUOTE ]
Ok if you prefer, Canada has a lot of problems dealing directly with their native Nations due to a lot of guilt from being [censored] in the past. They really have difficulty standing up to something illicit going on inside the borders.
They send a check, make some noises about reform and help, but really just ignore the whoel situation. Sounds a lot like the Dept of the Interior with checks that are bigger.

[/ QUOTE ]

From what I can remember from history class, Americans weren't very friendly towards Natives as well. So what is the difference? Does the American govt just care less about people who don't have influence?

[smoking blunt]

Legislurker said it correctly, the CDN govt are pussies when it comes to the Natives. Its easier for them to ignore the problem than try to "fix" it.

[Legislurker]

British Imperial policy to natives was more abhorrent because
it came at the crest of the eugenics and christazi missionary movements. The orphanages and schools were Dickens meets Catholic church 500 miles from nowhere. For the adults it was basically a holding pen with a church. I don't think either tradition is one to be proud of, and the Brits were nowhere near as filthy as the French and los evolues, but they had a much wider influence.

[joeker]

[ QUOTE ]
How is the situation very much different in Canada? As far as I am aware there are no laws in the US banning online poker either. And what about the many reservations in the US? Are they not considered sovereign nations as well? If they are why haven't any tribes followed in Kahnawake's footsteps?

[/ QUOTE ]

The situation is different in that:

A. Canadians can use their debit/credit cards to deposit into online poker sites. Canadian Banks don't feel the need to block transactions to gambling sites.
B. Many poker sites have their corporate HQs/offices in Canada proper
C. Most importantly Canada does not have a Wire act and a Justice department that views Online Poker as illegal.

Kahnawake is not doing anything wrong under Canadian law, and would be protected under it's treaties even if there was a Canadian law outlawing online gambling.

American Indian tribes have treaties with the US gov. but are still under the jurisdiction of Federal law, so why would they open up online poker sites, especially when they make so much with their B&M casinos?

The situation is Canada vis a vis online poker is totally different then America