Which online superstars have gone busto recently?

[El Diablo]

I used to chat w/ people about this stuff and be in the know, but I haven't talked to anyone about this in months.

So, what's the gossip? Which young online high-limit superstars have gone busto in the last few months? Any "big online names" or 2+2ers? Which high-limit regulars have mysteriously disappeared?

The only games I know about are the UB NL games, and none of the guys who have gone busto recently were well-known.

Gossip away!

[DesertCat]

Ashamedly, I did this summer. I had withdrawn all my remaining winnings ($10k) and quit in the spring. Then I started over with a fresh buyin, trying a new game (SNG's) and went bust very quickly. Two hundred bucks down the drain.

Finally I reloaded and went back to my bread and butter, shorthanded NL. My bankroll is up 300% this month (to $800;), and I'm getting my swagger back. Bring on Mike Matusow!

[Dylan_1965]

you sir are a superstar.

[Clayton]

He asked for online superstars.

[idrinkcoors]

Slightly off topic, but does anybody know of an online superstar (Pokerstars player), who is from Sweden, and whose real first name is Frederick?

I played with the guy in a cash game at the WSOP, and he was hilarious, going all in preflop blind, ordering 3 drinks at a time, etc. This was a $1/2 $100 nl buy in. He threw down $2k as he first sat down. Said he plays Spirit Rock heads-up. Also told me he won $100k in online cash games in May, and I kind of believe him. Yeah I know it was 1/2, but he said he was just blowing off steam while waiting for a bigger game.

[voltron.]

yes, a report on the Top 5 East Coast Poker Players Under 25 In The World is due.

[Alex/Mugaaz]

How many superstars are there on 2+2? There are not that many people that fit your criteria, and any that do will have posted a "downswing" post by now. The only people that count are frequent posters who all of a sudden stopped, and I can't think of any, but that type of departure usually goes unnoticed.

[daryn]

[ QUOTE ]
Slightly off topic, but does anybody know of an online superstar (Pokerstars player), who is from Sweden, and whose real first name is Frederick?

I played with the guy in a cash game at the WSOP, and he was hilarious, going all in preflop blind, ordering 3 drinks at a time, etc. This was a $1/2 $100 nl buy in. He threw down $2k as he first sat down. Said he plays Spirit Rock heads-up. Also told me he won $100k in online cash games in May, and I kind of believe him. Yeah I know it was 1/2, but he said he was just blowing off steam while waiting for a bigger game.

[/ QUOTE ]

sounds like JarleAA/Far, or maybe I_Knockout_U

[Gator519]

[ QUOTE ]
Slightly off topic, but does anybody know of an online superstar (Pokerstars player), who is from Sweden, and whose real first name is Frederick?

I played with the guy in a cash game at the WSOP, and he was hilarious, going all in preflop blind, ordering 3 drinks at a time, etc. This was a $1/2 $100 nl buy in. He threw down $2k as he first sat down. Said he plays Spirit Rock heads-up. Also told me he won $100k in online cash games in May, and I kind of believe him. Yeah I know it was 1/2, but he said he was just blowing off steam while waiting for a bigger game.

[/ QUOTE ]


That would be H@lling0l. Or however he has his name.

[dibbs]

Haven't watched this stuff in a while, but curious about this, as its in the general range of this convo.

Is arb really SR or it some shared account between him and some other dude or what? he plays a lot different than SR a lot, is he a winner in that game? Ive heard a certain player here talk smack about him, but I havent watched enough to know.

Did JB blow the WCOOP cash yet? I haven't seen panell at stars lately.

[chisness]

correct, that's hall

[chisness]

there's no way he blew all that. many saw him lose quite a bit in 5ks, but it was probably 75k or so.

[NLSoldier]

NLSoldier /images/graemlins/frown.gif

[TStoneMBD]

kurosh

[stinkypete]

[ QUOTE ]
kurosh

[/ QUOTE ]

[El Diablo]

[ QUOTE ]
kurosh

[/ QUOTE ]

Whoa, really? Story, please!

[Clayton]

[ QUOTE ]
correct, that's hall

[/ QUOTE ]

Given that his name is Oren, I highly doubt that.

[Diplomat]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
kurosh

[/ QUOTE ]

Whoa, really? Story, please!

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, that definitely requires a story.

-Diplomat

[Filip]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
kurosh

[/ QUOTE ]

Whoa, really? Story, please!

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, that definitely requires a story.

-Diplomat

[/ QUOTE ]

From OOT Ms paint thread:

http://img179.imageshack.us/img179/9131/kuroshcomic3ro.jpg

[Sponger.]

[ QUOTE ]
sounds like JarleAA/Far, or maybe I_Knockout_U

[/ QUOTE ]

I dunno, even winning $100k in one day sounds like a standard good day for one of these guys.

Obviously, yes they sometimes lose this much in a day too, but it would seem as though they could crush $100k in 1 month

[kurosh]

I'm not bust.

[cwsiggy]

OK, I have to ask, Where the hell is Prahlad???? Did he go on some climbing expedition in Nepal? He is nowhere to be found, at least on UB. Anyone know where the guy who plays a "perfect, unbeatable game of no limit..." according to Phil Gordon is????

[K\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\'s Deal]

[ QUOTE ]
Anyone know where the guy who plays a "perfect, unbeatable game of no limit..." according to Phil Gordon is????

[/ QUOTE ]

Come on. Did PG really say this? I thought he was smart enough not to make a dumb comment like this.

[El Diablo]

[ QUOTE ]
OK, I have to ask, Where the hell is Prahlad???? Did he go on some climbing expedition in Nepal? He is nowhere to be found, at least on UB. Anyone know where the guy who plays a "perfect, unbeatable game of no limit..." according to Phil Gordon is????

[/ QUOTE ]

I was hoping someone would shed some light on this, because I sure as hell have been wondering where he went. Maybe full-time on the tourney trail or something, trying to get famous? Maybe doing some spiritual retreat? I have no idea! No desire to see him back, though.

[whiskeytown]

I've been running a terrible deficit all year in everything but NL games, but especially in NL tourneys. - Current losses are around $3900 for all categories.

In essence, I have been broke for months and just keep replenishing the BR from work wages - I need to get my [censored] together - I always had a habit of overplaying the BR when drunk.

RB

[Gator519]

Isn't he 'The Awesomest' on ub as well? if so he's been playing.. I also see his account Mahatama is also logged in right now on UB.

[spamuell]

Hey, give credit to the artist(me)! Unfortunately, I doubt most people remember the Q7s flush fold anymore, I'd forgotten about it until I saw that.

[K\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\'s Deal]

[ QUOTE ]
I've been running a terrible deficit all year in everything but NL games, but especially in NL tourneys. - Current losses are around $3900 for all categories.

In essence, I have been broke for months and just keep replenishing the BR from work wages - I need to get my [censored] together - I always had a habit of overplaying the BR when drunk.

RB

[/ QUOTE ]

Dang dude, this doesn't sound too good. Get better..

[Scotty O]

[ QUOTE ]
I've been running a terrible deficit all year in everything but NL games, but especially in NL tourneys. - Current losses are around $3900 for all categories.

In essence, I have been broke for months and just keep replenishing the BR from work wages - I need to get my [censored] together - I always had a habit of overplaying the BR when drunk.

RB

[/ QUOTE ]

I have ran bad since Jan05. I didn't have to replinish, just dropped down in stakes as the BR dropped. My progress looks like the internet stock bubble of 2000!! LOL Check it out! Looks like I am a good bonus whore on UB!!

Chart (http://www.geocities.com/thepokerfanatic/stats1.jpg)

[whiskeytown]

working on it -

looking at prioritizing on one or two types of tournaments - getting out of ring games for a while unless they're NL and focusing on my tourney game.

RB

[cwsiggy]

[ QUOTE ]
Come on. Did PG really say this? I thought he was smart enough not to make a dumb comment like this.


[/ QUOTE ]

Yes he did say this in the Little Green Book. I would think Gordon would know what he is talking about. Says he has tried to emulate his style with not as much success. Gordon did say the only problem with this "perfect" style is the large variance and that you need a super duper bankroll for this.

[Filip]

[ QUOTE ]
Hey, give credit to the artist(me)! Unfortunately, I doubt most people remember the Q7s flush fold anymore, I'd forgotten about it until I saw that.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sorry coudlnt figure out how to make a link to a post while in flat mode.

[El Diablo]

[ QUOTE ]
Isn't he 'The Awesomest' on ub as well? if so he's been playing.. I also see his account Mahatama is also logged in right now on UB.

[/ QUOTE ]

No, Prahlad is not "The Aweomest."

[Gator519]

No, hall's name is Freddrick.

[2+2 wannabe]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I've been running a terrible deficit all year in everything but NL games, but especially in NL tourneys. - Current losses are around $3900 for all categories.

In essence, I have been broke for months and just keep replenishing the BR from work wages - I need to get my [censored] together - I always had a habit of overplaying the BR when drunk.

RB

[/ QUOTE ]

I have ran bad since Jan05. I didn't have to replinish, just dropped down in stakes as the BR dropped. My progress looks like the internet stock bubble of 2000!! LOL Check it out! Looks like I am a good bonus whore on UB!!

Chart (http://www.geocities.com/thepokerfanatic/stats1.jpg)

[/ QUOTE ]

quit sng's

[HotPants]

[ QUOTE ]
Hey, give credit to the artist(me)! Unfortunately, I doubt most people remember the Q7s flush fold anymore, I'd forgotten about it until I saw that.

[/ QUOTE ]

What's up with that fold? Can some one give me a rundown of that hand?

I'm assuming he posted it on 2+2, and tried to defend his actions while being laughed at by everyone

[spamuell]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Hey, give credit to the artist(me)! Unfortunately, I doubt most people remember the Q7s flush fold anymore, I'd forgotten about it until I saw that.

[/ QUOTE ]

What's up with that fold? Can some one give me a rundown of that hand?

I'm assuming he posted it on 2+2, and tried to defend his actions while being laughed at by everyone

[/ QUOTE ]

It's a bit harsh to post this, I don't really enjoy mocking Kurosh anymore, he seems decent enough, but you did ask. (http://archiveserver.twoplustwo.com/showthreaded.php?Cat=0&Number=2609964&page=0&vc=1)

[dtbog]

$6.5k in UB bonus dollars!?

[El Diablo]

[ QUOTE ]
I would think Gordon would know what he is talking about.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why?

[Justin A]

Why is everyone responding with their own suckiness in this thread? He didn't ask if any small stakes grinders had gone bust recently.

[James282]

[ QUOTE ]
Why is everyone responding with their own suckiness in this thread? He didn't ask if any small stakes grinders had gone bust recently.

[/ QUOTE ]

And me without any PWN3D! pics /images/graemlins/frown.gif
-James

[cwsiggy]

[ QUOTE ]
Why?


[/ QUOTE ]

Well, it's not like he has amazing results in tourney play and I don't know his cash game results, but I have to assume he is smart when it comes to math, pot equity analysis, knowledge of game theory etc. His book is very good, he seems intellligent, and I simply have to assume he has discussed Prahlad's play with other smart players.
I suppose if Sklansky said Prahlad plays a "perfect, unbeatable but high variance" game of no limit it might have more weight.

[bdk3clash]

If it matters Mahatma was playing (or at least at a table) last night on UB.

[cwsiggy]

He is there now - dragging big pots. Must have been on vacation.

[JBB]

Why are you a Steeler's fan?

[Schneids]

A credible source a few months ago told me Jarle was bust however it appears he is still playing plenty now so either that wasn't true or someone else has enough faith in him to stake him.

[Scotty O]

[ QUOTE ]
$6.5k in UB bonus dollars!?

[/ QUOTE ]

Remember S&G madness? I earned 2200 during that time. I think I hit every reload bonus and referred about 15 people.

[Scotty O]

[ QUOTE ]
quit sng's

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't play them that much anymore. ~ (1100) in the whole, I don't play them that much.

[El Diablo]

[ QUOTE ]
A credible source a few months ago told me Jarle was bust however it appears he is still playing plenty now so either that wasn't true or someone else has enough faith in him to stake him.

[/ QUOTE ]

OK. Now we're talking, baby!

[Clayton]

Whatever happened to Spyder44?

[N 82 50 24]

Prahlad was playing 50/100 NL today on the name APlusGame247

Online "superstars" go bust all the time, but I doubt any of them would be happy if I pointed that out in a public forum...

Oh, and that is definitely Halling, aka H@££INGGOL

[Daliman]

<---this one sorta did.


55 buyin downswing at SNG's and 20k lost in Sports bets in a week about 3 weeks ago.

Not fully recovered yet, but hey, what can ya do.

I mean, other than make moronic bets for 15k to win 5k.....

[smurfitup]

[ QUOTE ]
Why is everyone responding with their own suckiness in this thread? He didn't ask if any small stakes grinders had gone bust recently.

[/ QUOTE ]

because poker players are proud bastards and all assume that they are in fact superstars.

[Sponger.]

[ QUOTE ]
Why is everyone responding with their own suckiness in this thread? He didn't ask if any small stakes grinders had gone bust recently.

[/ QUOTE ]

*puts hand down*

/images/graemlins/frown.gif

[MicroBob]

[ QUOTE ]

*puts hand down*

[/ QUOTE ]



ummmm...me too.


except I was going to say that I haven't gone bust YET....despite my best efforts to do so.


Also - before my title was 'Johnny Chan Spotter' I was bestowed with the honor of 'Internet Superstar' by our friendly moderator, Jurollo.
So I believe that I actually am justified in responding to this thread.

[bigfishead]

Well not an online superstar nor a young gun. But it appears that maybe Grizzle is down & out for a bit. Last seen being put into a 300-600 game and went bust. Known for tilting off tremendous amounts. Especially when drinking. Have seen him within the last 6 months as low as 8-16 but not seen hide nor hair in 60 days or so.

Just means it can happen to anyone. Maybe a course in "tiltless" from TA is in order.

[Freudian]

And rumours about another tournament player in a swedish poker magazine, Martin de Knijff writes in a diary from Harrahs WSOP Circuit event:

"My first table is tough, with Chris Ferguson and the WPT-champion Tuan Le. Rumours claim that Tuan is a gambling addict and is broke. In April he won $2.7M. In november 2004 he won his first WPT event for $1.4M. A Villas at Bellagio with it's own swimming pool costs a lot. Of course he doesn't pay for this himself. The losses at Craps and Blackjack take care of that. Well, lets hope these rumours are fabricated"

[etizzle]

i was playing 50-100 limit at foxwoods friday night, and Grizzle was playing the next table over. A young pro was saying he was taking a beating, but I dont know if hes broke.

[El Diablo]

[ QUOTE ]
Well not an online superstar nor a young gun. But it appears that maybe Grizzle is down & out for a bit. Last seen being put into a 300-600 game and went bust. Known for tilting off tremendous amounts. Especially when drinking. Have seen him within the last 6 months as low as 8-16 but not seen hide nor hair in 60 days or so.

Just means it can happen to anyone. Maybe a course in "tiltless" from TA is in order.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, this is the type of gossip I'm talking about!

8-16. Wow. The idea that these guys who play ultra-high let themselves get into those spots. Man, I know it happens, and know how it happens. But not having that type of gamble in me, it's so hard to truly relate!

[El Diablo]

[ QUOTE ]
And rumours about another tournament player in a swedish poker magazine, Martin de Knijff writes in a diary from Harrahs WSOP Circuit event:

"My first table is tough, with Chris Ferguson and the WPT-champion Tuan Le. Rumours claim that Tuan is a gambling addict and is broke. In April he won $2.7M. In november 2004 he won his first WPT event for $1.4M. A Villas at Bellagio with it's own swimming pool costs a lot. Of course he doesn't pay for this himself. The losses at Craps and Blackjack take care of that. Well, lets hope these rumours are fabricated"

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, yes, yes, thank you! This is the sort of rumor I want to hear in this thread! Hopefully some of the Commerce regulars can verify this!!!!!!

[riverboatking]

[ QUOTE ]
Yes, yes, yes, thank you! This is the sort of rumor I want to hear in this thread! Hopefully some of the Commerce regulars can verify this!!!!!!


[/ QUOTE ]

actually tuan plays mostly at the bike not at commerce.
and during the legends tourney he was playing the big mixed game with chau, doyle, et. al.
and from the little i saw he seemed to be doing quite well...of course i must add the caveat that i have actually no idea how he did overall...just that he was in action and when i saw him he had alot of chips in front of him.

[El Diablo]

[ QUOTE ]

and during the legends tourney he was playing the big mixed game with chau, doyle, et. al.

[/ QUOTE ]

Win a couple mil in tourney, hit a little 4k/8k action. Good times.

[riverboatking]

[ QUOTE ]
Win a couple mil in tourney, hit a little 4k/8k action. Good times.

[/ QUOTE ]

not to mention the fly ladies he had sitting behnd him.
i can think of worse ways to go through life.

[KaneKungFu123]

[ QUOTE ]
Prahlad was playing 50/100 NL today on the name APlusGame247

Online "superstars" go bust all the time, but I doubt any of them would be happy if I pointed that out in a public forum...

Oh, and that is definitely Halling, aka H@££INGGOL

[/ QUOTE ]

where is the story on halling? what stakes does he play? i know of him only from his reputation as super LAG Nl player and Clubber from Zj blog.

[MCS]

[ QUOTE ]
And rumours about another tournament player in a swedish poker magazine, Martin de Knijff writes in a diary from Harrahs WSOP Circuit event:

"My first table is tough, with Chris Ferguson and the WPT-champion Tuan Le. Rumours claim that Tuan is a gambling addict and is broke. In April he won $2.7M. In november 2004 he won his first WPT event for $1.4M. A Villas at Bellagio with it's own swimming pool costs a lot. Of course he doesn't pay for this himself. The losses at Craps and Blackjack take care of that. Well, lets hope these rumours are fabricated"

[/ QUOTE ]

Good stuff. Do you have a link?

[Freudian]

[ QUOTE ]

Good stuff. Do you have a link?

[/ QUOTE ]

Paper Magazine in swedish. I translated it. The url is http://www.pokermagazine.se/

Martin de Knijff's tournament diaries are excellent with some nice gambling anecdotes.

[Subfallen]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Well not an online superstar nor a young gun. But it appears that maybe Grizzle is down & out for a bit. Last seen being put into a 300-600 game and went bust. Known for tilting off tremendous amounts. Especially when drinking. Have seen him within the last 6 months as low as 8-16 but not seen hide nor hair in 60 days or so.

Just means it can happen to anyone. Maybe a course in "tiltless" from TA is in order.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, this is the type of gossip I'm talking about!

8-16. Wow. The idea that these guys who play ultra-high let themselves get into those spots. Man, I know it happens, and know how it happens. But not having that type of gamble in me, it's so hard to truly relate!

[/ QUOTE ]

There are still times I just have no idea if you're serious. /images/graemlins/confused.gif

[El Diablo]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Well not an online superstar nor a young gun. But it appears that maybe Grizzle is down & out for a bit. Last seen being put into a 300-600 game and went bust. Known for tilting off tremendous amounts. Especially when drinking. Have seen him within the last 6 months as low as 8-16 but not seen hide nor hair in 60 days or so.

Just means it can happen to anyone. Maybe a course in "tiltless" from TA is in order.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, this is the type of gossip I'm talking about!

8-16. Wow. The idea that these guys who play ultra-high let themselves get into those spots. Man, I know it happens, and know how it happens. But not having that type of gamble in me, it's so hard to truly relate!

[/ QUOTE ]

There are still times I just have no idea if you're serious. /images/graemlins/confused.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

I am super serious. I have no idea how these guys are playing 300-600 one minute and 5-10 the next. How these guys win millions at tourneys, then are being staked into tourneys the next year cuz they are broke. How these 16-year-old kids make 200k online then go broke. How these 21-year-old kids make 500k online then go broke. I mean, I know. I just can't truly understand. I can absolutely not relate to the complete and utter lack of any sort of money management and complete and utter willingness to go broke. Obviously, I will probably continue to make my living in ways other than gambling at the highest of stakes. I started poker playing 3/6 LHE. I now play much bigger than that. Luckily I have other means of income as well, but if I didn't, I sure would do everything in my power possible to make sure I didn't have to play 3/6 as my main game ever again.

[La Brujita]

Off topic, but when did they start spreading the 50 game at Foxwoods? Or is it just weekends?

This is the way I read El Diablo's posts: you never know quite if he is serious or not but you just go along for the ride and enjoy (kind of like spicy f's art). Case in point: his enthusiasm for censored's bannings.

That being said gut feeling he is serious here, and I am curious as well. I am always shocked about these roller coaster stories because it is so damn hard to make a lot of money consistently at poker. It seems easy when winning but it can be real hard when running bad.

[jaydub]

How do people drink themselves out of a career and family?

It's the same type of behavior.

[The DaveR]

[ QUOTE ]
Well not an online superstar nor a young gun. But it appears that maybe Grizzle is down & out for a bit. Last seen being put into a 300-600 game and went bust. Known for tilting off tremendous amounts. Especially when drinking. Have seen him within the last 6 months as low as 8-16 but not seen hide nor hair in 60 days or so.

Just means it can happen to anyone. Maybe a course in "tiltless" from TA is in order.

[/ QUOTE ]

I was playing at Borgata during the WPT and a 2+2er came over to say hi. I asked him what he was playing and he said, "200/400. Sam Grizzle is playing. He's terrible." That was about 6 weeks ago.

[Kneel B4 Zod]

[ QUOTE ]
but if I didn't, I sure would do everything in my power possible to make sure I didn't have to play 3/6 as my main game ever again.

[/ QUOTE ]

that's probably exactly what's going through these busted (and yet to be busted) whiz kids. I made x$/hour at my old game, now I make x+y$/hour, and I sure never want to go back to just making x. so I just gotta get through this rut/session, and then I'll be ok.

I don't think this is news, but it's just a problem of people not realizing how much variance there is in poker, how lucky they probably were to rocket to a huge bankroll, and failing to realizing that they're playing above their heads - or living a lifetsyle above their heads - before it's too late.

that, and tilt.

I have had temporary problems with both of the above, and thankfully have realized it before any real damage was done. I don't want to sound arrogant, but the step I made was the one that most people can't. BK made a similar post about this a little while back. I never played as high as him, but the same principles apply.

sorry I don't have any names for you. In particular, I would think you would hear a lot of names from the traveling tournament circuit.

[Justin A]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Well not an online superstar nor a young gun. But it appears that maybe Grizzle is down & out for a bit. Last seen being put into a 300-600 game and went bust. Known for tilting off tremendous amounts. Especially when drinking. Have seen him within the last 6 months as low as 8-16 but not seen hide nor hair in 60 days or so.

Just means it can happen to anyone. Maybe a course in "tiltless" from TA is in order.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, this is the type of gossip I'm talking about!

8-16. Wow. The idea that these guys who play ultra-high let themselves get into those spots. Man, I know it happens, and know how it happens. But not having that type of gamble in me, it's so hard to truly relate!

[/ QUOTE ]

There are still times I just have no idea if you're serious. /images/graemlins/confused.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

I am super serious. I have no idea how these guys are playing 300-600 one minute and 5-10 the next. How these guys win millions at tourneys, then are being staked into tourneys the next year cuz they are broke. How these 16-year-old kids make 200k online then go broke. How these 21-year-old kids make 500k online then go broke. I mean, I know. I just can't truly understand. I can absolutely not relate to the complete and utter lack of any sort of money management and complete and utter willingness to go broke. Obviously, I will probably continue to make my living in ways other than gambling at the highest of stakes. I started poker playing 3/6 LHE. I now play much bigger than that. Luckily I have other means of income as well, but if I didn't, I sure would do everything in my power possible to make sure I didn't have to play 3/6 as my main game ever again.

[/ QUOTE ]

Who are these people you know of?

[N 82 50 24]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Prahlad was playing 50/100 NL today on the name APlusGame247

Online "superstars" go bust all the time, but I doubt any of them would be happy if I pointed that out in a public forum...

Oh, and that is definitely Halling, aka H@££INGGOL


[/ QUOTE ]

where is the story on halling? what stakes does he play? i know of him only from his reputation as super LAG Nl player and Clubber from Zj blog.

[/ QUOTE ]

I have no idea where the story is... I thought it was just an anecdote from earlier in the thread.

But he plays as high as 50/100 NL as HASSAN SLASK on UB. I'm pretty sure he's tried out 100/200 NL on Prima, although I don't know his name.

[phish]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Well not an online superstar nor a young gun. But it appears that maybe Grizzle is down & out for a bit. Last seen being put into a 300-600 game and went bust. Known for tilting off tremendous amounts. Especially when drinking. Have seen him within the last 6 months as low as 8-16 but not seen hide nor hair in 60 days or so.

Just means it can happen to anyone. Maybe a course in "tiltless" from TA is in order.

[/ QUOTE ]

I was playing at Borgata during the WPT and a 2+2er came over to say hi. I asked him what he was playing and he said, "200/400. Sam Grizzle is playing. He's terrible." That was about 6 weeks ago.

[/ QUOTE ]

I played some 150/300 w/ Grizzle this weekend. Don't know where he got the money, but certainly not from playing at those limits (or any limits for that matter). He sucks. Wasn't on tilt or drunk either. He just sucks. There are a ton of these old timers out there with a lot of name recognition that have no shot against the young kids today.

[El Diablo]

[ QUOTE ]
How do people drink themselves out of a career and family?

It's the same type of behavior.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, I get that. Just crazy is all.

[El Diablo]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Well not an online superstar nor a young gun. But it appears that maybe Grizzle is down & out for a bit. Last seen being put into a 300-600 game and went bust. Known for tilting off tremendous amounts. Especially when drinking. Have seen him within the last 6 months as low as 8-16 but not seen hide nor hair in 60 days or so.

Just means it can happen to anyone. Maybe a course in "tiltless" from TA is in order.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, this is the type of gossip I'm talking about!

8-16. Wow. The idea that these guys who play ultra-high let themselves get into those spots. Man, I know it happens, and know how it happens. But not having that type of gamble in me, it's so hard to truly relate!

[/ QUOTE ]

There are still times I just have no idea if you're serious. /images/graemlins/confused.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

I am super serious. I have no idea how these guys are playing 300-600 one minute and 5-10 the next. How these guys win millions at tourneys, then are being staked into tourneys the next year cuz they are broke. How these 16-year-old kids make 200k online then go broke. How these 21-year-old kids make 500k online then go broke. I mean, I know. I just can't truly understand. I can absolutely not relate to the complete and utter lack of any sort of money management and complete and utter willingness to go broke. Obviously, I will probably continue to make my living in ways other than gambling at the highest of stakes. I started poker playing 3/6 LHE. I now play much bigger than that. Luckily I have other means of income as well, but if I didn't, I sure would do everything in my power possible to make sure I didn't have to play 3/6 as my main game ever again.

[/ QUOTE ]

Who are these people you know of?

[/ QUOTE ]

XXRAGEDXX, chipmovr, and Jordan Berkowitz are 3 guys under 20 who have had such crazy swings. Neverwin also had a similar run up/down/up. Their ups and downs have been documented in posts here and on neverwinpoker.com. There are also multiple European kids in their teens and early twenties who have made hundreds of thousands (or more) and have managed to go broke. I'm aware of one Euro kid who was up somewhere between 500k-1M and is now in debt for about 500k. These are the types of swings that happen to guys who play in a manner to run up huge rolls starting from 5-10 and months later are playing 400-800HU.

[El Diablo]

BTW, anyone know the latest gossip on XXRAGEDXX and Jordan Berkowitz?

[El Diablo]

An anecdote. A couple nights ago, I saw teacuppoker on UB dump somewhere between 60-90k at 50/100 (not sure how much his opponent was in). 60k he dumped in about 5 minutes of tilt. He had run up 26k at 25/50. He took that and lost another 22k at 50/100 (after his initial 60-90 loss). He was down to his case $3600 on UB. He doubled up three times as an underdog and then continued and ran that up to $72k.

That is the type of gamb00ling I just don't have in me, but find fasinating to hear about and watch.

[voltron.]

[ QUOTE ]
An anecdote. A couple nights ago, I saw teacuppoker on UB dump somewhere between 60-90k at 50/100 (not sure how much his opponent was in). 60k he dumped in about 5 minutes of tilt. He had run up 26k at 25/50. He took that and lost another 22k at 50/100 (after his initial 60-90 loss). He was down to his case $3600 on UB. He doubled up three times as an underdog and then continued and ran that up to $72k.

That is the type of gamb00ling I just don't have in me, but find fasinating to hear about and watch.

[/ QUOTE ]

I find it fascinating as well. These people are just on another planet. It's pretty clear they just can't think evaluate their results rationally and aren't mature or experienced enough to deal with the up and down swings.

I'm relatively new to poker, but I get the feeling that in just a couple years I will feel like Jay Z when he talks about new kids coming up and then shortly after watching their Rolls' get repoed.

[MicroBob]

I don't know how new it is. But there's a book I was paging through at Borders today called 'All-in - The history of the WSOP".

Pretty interesting stuff.

Some of the stories about Stu Ungar and others winning hundreds of thousands or million or whatever and then being flat-broke or in debt within a week or so are pretty incredible.


I didn't buy it...but I intend to when it comes out in paper-back (because I'm a cheap bastard who wants to save $10) . What I read of it was extremely interesting bordering on fascinating imo.


I too find it incredible how these guys can go broke.

They have hundreds of thousands of dollars yet they are almost guaranteed to go broke because of their various vices and poor money-management habits.
Doesn't matter how good they are at poker...their chances of going broke are extremely high.

In the meanwhile, I'm a really mediocre poker player...and my chances of EVER going broke are much much smaller.
I just value the freedom of online-poker too much to let it happen.
i also value the freedom one has when they can pay their own rent and don't have to beg friends/family for money/loans/staking-deals/whatever.


Seriously....I think it's pretty messed up to have an entire $500k (or more, or whatever) bankroll and still find a way to go completely broke.

[Freudian]

[ QUOTE ]

XXRAGEDXX, chipmovr, and Jordan Berkowitz are 3 guys under 20 who have had such crazy swings. Neverwin also had a similar run up/down/up. Their ups and downs have been documented in posts here and on neverwinpoker.com. There are also multiple European kids in their teens and early twenties who have made hundreds of thousands (or more) and have managed to go broke. I'm aware of one Euro kid who was up somewhere between 500k-1M and is now in debt for about 500k. These are the types of swings that happen to guys who play in a manner to run up huge rolls starting from 5-10 and months later are playing 400-800HU.

[/ QUOTE ]

Perhaps they lack the poker experience or self awareness to recognize when they are on a heater and when they are not.

It is common for online players to complain how bad they are running but they still know they are winning players because they had a period of winning that was slightly longer than the current losing period.

[bdk3clash]

The human mind is truly an amazing rationalizing machine. A 10,000 hand heater followed by a 50,000+ hand downswing (generally at higher stakes than the heater took place at) somehow inevitably leads to the question, "Why am I running so bad?"

This Ray Zee post (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showthreaded.php?Cat=0&Number=3112243&an=&page=0&v c=1) just about says it all, in my opinion.

Cool thread.

[Justin A]

[ QUOTE ]


XXRAGEDXX, chipmovr, and Jordan Berkowitz are 3 guys under 20 who have had such crazy swings. Neverwin also had a similar run up/down/up. Their ups and downs have been documented in posts here and on neverwinpoker.com. There are also multiple European kids in their teens and early twenties who have made hundreds of thousands (or more) and have managed to go broke. I'm aware of one Euro kid who was up somewhere between 500k-1M and is now in debt for about 500k. These are the types of swings that happen to guys who play in a manner to run up huge rolls starting from 5-10 and months later are playing 400-800HU.

[/ QUOTE ]

What's the latest on neverwin?

[idrinkcoors]

I have a sick fascination with players losing big. Just read Bluff Magazine where Matasow says he came into this year's WSOP "without a quarter," because he said he lost $400,000 playing online. Incredible. I don't know how those guys sleep at night after a run like that.

[mmbt0ne]

[ QUOTE ]
BTW, anyone know the latest gossip on XXRAGEDXX and Jordan Berkowitz?

[/ QUOTE ]

Obviously it's not my game, but I haven't seen anything on the Panella account since his crazy day of 50-something $5k HU sngs.

[El Diablo]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]


XXRAGEDXX, chipmovr, and Jordan Berkowitz are 3 guys under 20 who have had such crazy swings. Neverwin also had a similar run up/down/up. Their ups and downs have been documented in posts here and on neverwinpoker.com. There are also multiple European kids in their teens and early twenties who have made hundreds of thousands (or more) and have managed to go broke. I'm aware of one Euro kid who was up somewhere between 500k-1M and is now in debt for about 500k. These are the types of swings that happen to guys who play in a manner to run up huge rolls starting from 5-10 and months later are playing 400-800HU.

[/ QUOTE ]

What's the latest on neverwin?

[/ QUOTE ]

No idea. Last I heard he was gonna play Dan N. in the Wynn challenge, so I assume he's been running decent.

[KaneKungFu123]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm aware of one Euro kid who was up somewhere between 500k-1M and is now in debt for about 500k. .

[/ QUOTE ]

how did he get people to stake him? who is he in debt to? are they going to kill him?

[shaniac]

[ QUOTE ]
XXRAGEDXX, chipmovr, and Jordan Berkowitz are 3 guys under 20 who have had such crazy swings. Neverwin also had a similar run up/down/up. Their ups and downs have been documented in posts here and on neverwinpoker.com. There are also multiple European kids in their teens and early twenties who have made hundreds of thousands (or more) and have managed to go broke. I'm aware of one Euro kid who was up somewhere between 500k-1M and is now in debt for about 500k. These are the types of swings that happen to guys who play in a manner to run up huge rolls starting from 5-10 and months later are playing 400-800HU.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why is this a surprising phenomenon to you? It makes perfect sense that kids not old enough to drink would experience the most outlandish swings of all gamblers. Five years ago, there was no way for a hyperactive (not to mention talented, since all the precocious degenerates you listed are capable players) 18-year old kid to make or lose six-figure sums while holed up in his mom's room. Kids used to put all their experimental energy into drugs, alcohol and sex, and many bottomed out before leaving high school. High stakes gambling has merely replaced those other vices for a lot of teenagers.

[Boris]

Grizzle is not a professional gambler. He's a professional con artist. He probably doesn't give a rat's ass if he loses money playing poker. It's not his source of income.

[shaniac]

[ QUOTE ]
Grizzle is not a professional gambler. He's a professional con artist. He probably doesn't give a rat's ass if he loses money playing poker. It's not his source of income.

[/ QUOTE ]

Are we talking about Sam Grizsle?

[Boris]

Yes. Sam Grizzle.

[El Diablo]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
XXRAGEDXX, chipmovr, and Jordan Berkowitz are 3 guys under 20 who have had such crazy swings. Neverwin also had a similar run up/down/up. Their ups and downs have been documented in posts here and on neverwinpoker.com. There are also multiple European kids in their teens and early twenties who have made hundreds of thousands (or more) and have managed to go broke. I'm aware of one Euro kid who was up somewhere between 500k-1M and is now in debt for about 500k. These are the types of swings that happen to guys who play in a manner to run up huge rolls starting from 5-10 and months later are playing 400-800HU.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why is this a surprising phenomenon to you? It makes perfect sense that kids not old enough to drink would experience the most outlandish swings of all gamblers. Five years ago, there was no way for a hyperactive (not to mention talented, since all the precocious degenerates you listed are capable players) 18-year old kid to make or lose six-figure sums while holed up in his mom's room. Kids used to put all their experimental energy into drugs, alcohol and sex, and many bottomed out before leaving high school. High stakes gambling has merely replaced those other vices for a lot of teenagers.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not sure where I said it was surprising.

[Bascule]

Linda Geenen has been writing about Sam Grizzle in her Dear Diary blog for some time.

Don't touch my chips! (http://table-tango.pokerworks.com/2003/07/03/thursday-july-03-2003/)
Railbird (http://table-tango.pokerworks.com/2003/07/28/monday-july-28-2003/)
House for sale (http://table-tango.pokerworks.com/2004/07/14/wednesday-july-14-2004/)

[NLSoldier]

[ QUOTE ]
are they going to kill him?

[/ QUOTE ]

now that would be some juicy gossip!

[Tony.T]

I have nice info about most of scandinavian players, if anyone is really curious U can PM me! State online nick or
real name

[HEK]

[ QUOTE ]
XXRAGEDXX, chipmovr, and Jordan Berkowitz are 3 guys under 20 who have had such crazy swings.

[/ QUOTE ]

Earlier this year I heard about Chipmvr playing 100/200 limit (or was it 50/100) on Stars. He's an 18 or 19 yo kid from my hometown. Next thing I knew he was sitting at my NL200 table one night back in February and we got to chatting. He said he had a 'horrible' run on stars so he decided to switch sites. Rumor has it that during his bad run he was badmouthing Hellmuth (maybe a different top pro) and challenging him to HU $5k SnG's. Next thing you know he's on a $200NL table and people said he lost almost his whole roll of $100K+. Ha! Kids.

[Prevaricator]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
XXRAGEDXX, chipmovr, and Jordan Berkowitz are 3 guys under 20 who have had such crazy swings.

[/ QUOTE ]

Earlier this year I heard about Chipmvr playing 100/200 limit (or was it 50/100) on Stars. He's an 18 or 19 yo kid from my hometown. Next thing I knew he was sitting at my NL200 table one night back in February and we got to chatting. He said he had a 'horrible' run on stars so he decided to switch sites. Rumor has it that during his bad run he was badmouthing Hellmuth (maybe a different top pro) and challenging him to HU $5k SnG's. Next thing you know he's on a $200NL table and people said he lost almost his whole roll of $100K+. Ha! Kids.

[/ QUOTE ]

How old are you? And who did you hear that from?

[Josh.]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
XXRAGEDXX, chipmovr, and Jordan Berkowitz are 3 guys under 20 who have had such crazy swings.

[/ QUOTE ]

Earlier this year I heard about Chipmvr playing 100/200 limit (or was it 50/100) on Stars. He's an 18 or 19 yo kid from my hometown. Next thing I knew he was sitting at my NL200 table one night back in February and we got to chatting. He said he had a 'horrible' run on stars so he decided to switch sites. Rumor has it that during his bad run he was badmouthing Hellmuth (maybe a different top pro) and challenging him to HU $5k SnG's. Next thing you know he's on a $200NL table and people said he lost almost his whole roll of $100K+. Ha! Kids.

[/ QUOTE ]


well he was at turning stone for the nys tourneys over the summer and someone said he was flipping coins for I think $1000 a flip, so I'd say if that's true, he's doing ok

[Josh.]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
kurosh

[/ QUOTE ]

Whoa, really? Story, please!

[/ QUOTE ]


[ QUOTE ]
In short, I'm a huge tilt monkey, emotionally unstable, a moron and decided to piss away all but 2k of my roll at 400NL and 30/60 in a matter of 15 minutes.

[/ QUOTE ]

link (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Board=headsup&Number=3803080&Se archpage=1&Main=3800054&Words=tilt+kurosh&topic=&S earch=true#Post3803080)

[El Diablo]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
XXRAGEDXX, chipmovr, and Jordan Berkowitz are 3 guys under 20 who have had such crazy swings.

[/ QUOTE ]

Earlier this year I heard about Chipmvr playing 100/200 limit (or was it 50/100) on Stars. He's an 18 or 19 yo kid from my hometown. Next thing I knew he was sitting at my NL200 table one night back in February and we got to chatting. He said he had a 'horrible' run on stars so he decided to switch sites. Rumor has it that during his bad run he was badmouthing Hellmuth (maybe a different top pro) and challenging him to HU $5k SnG's. Next thing you know he's on a $200NL table and people said he lost almost his whole roll of $100K+. Ha! Kids.

[/ QUOTE ]


well he was at turning stone for the nys tourneys over the summer and someone said he was flipping coins for I think $1000 a flip, so I'd say if that's true, he's doing ok

[/ QUOTE ]

Summer is a LONG time ago for these kids!

Some of these guys are +$100k then in debt the same month!

Keep the great stories coming, please. Tony T I would love to hear PMs of ANY STORIES!!!!! TYTYTY!!!

[cwsiggy]

Well, his Royal Highness Mahatma is killing it today on UB - up over 70k. He will never go bust.

[gilbert]

what ever happened to "brainwash"? seemed like he couldn't not cash in any of the big stars tournies and according to the poker db (http://www.thepokerdb.com/player.php?id=11323) he hasn't cashed in any tournaments in a couple months.

[gilbert]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
XXRAGEDXX, chipmovr, and Jordan Berkowitz are 3 guys under 20 who have had such crazy swings.

[/ QUOTE ]

Earlier this year I heard about Chipmvr playing 100/200 limit (or was it 50/100) on Stars. He's an 18 or 19 yo kid from my hometown. Next thing I knew he was sitting at my NL200 table one night back in February and we got to chatting. He said he had a 'horrible' run on stars so he decided to switch sites. Rumor has it that during his bad run he was badmouthing Hellmuth (maybe a different top pro) and challenging him to HU $5k SnG's. Next thing you know he's on a $200NL table and people said he lost almost his whole roll of $100K+. Ha! Kids.

[/ QUOTE ]

I remember seeing something about chipmovr on here. IIRC, someone thought chipmovr was daryn and was playing thunder keller 300/600 HU on UB and went on a massive downswing and said he would never play another hand of poker again.

I remember seeing chipmovr play the 100 game on stars one day and the next he was playing 15/30, so he must suffer from tilt pretty badly.

[LAtoLV]

"What's the latest on neverwin?"


Neverwins been playing 100/200 on Stars. Usually with a very large stack.

[greg nice]

more kurosh update

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showfl...;gonew=1#UNREAD (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=3904878&an=0&page=0&gone w=1#UNREAD)

[N 82 50 24]

In terms of XX RAGED XX, he's doing fine. He did well in the WCOOP. He also just played EPT Dublin, although he didn't cash ... this is him at the event:

http://www.thepokerdb.com/raged.JPG

[gilbert]

he looks mad in that picture. i remember when he got in trouble on UB for being underage and they locked up his account he went absolutely apeshit on rgp a couple years ago. i guess the raged name isn't just a novelty.

[N 82 50 24]

[ QUOTE ]
he looks mad in that picture. i remember when he got in trouble on UB for being underage and they locked up his account he went absolutely apeshit on rgp a couple years ago. i guess the raged name isn't just a novelty.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yea, he's pretty much always angry. RAGED is def an appropriate name.

[HotPants]

Damnit, I'd like nothing more than to make fun of this guy because I'm jealous of better poker players than me, but sadly, he's wearin some nice clothes

[jba]

[ QUOTE ]
In terms of XX RAGED XX, he's doing fine. He did well in the WCOOP. He also just played EPT Dublin, although he didn't cash ... this is him at the event:

http://www.thepokerdb.com/raged.JPG

[/ QUOTE ]

http://img473.imageshack.us/img473/7694/clem3ds.jpg

[El Diablo]

For some reason I can't quite put my finger on, I find that picture absolutely hilarious.

[Dids]

Because you can visably seen the pain he's in on his face as he's trying that hard to look cool?

[gusser]

[ QUOTE ]
In terms of XX RAGED XX, he's doing fine. He did well in the WCOOP. He also just played EPT Dublin, although he didn't cash ... this is him at the event:

http://www.thepokerdb.com/raged.JPG

[/ QUOTE ]

http://img460.imageshack.us/img460/3429/peepers6vv.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[El Diablo]

OMG, YES!!!

[MicroBob]

[ QUOTE ]
Just read Bluff Magazine where Matasow says he came into this year's WSOP "without a quarter," because he said he lost $400,000 playing online.

[/ QUOTE ]


I saw this too. Amazing.


Difference between me and Matusow: If I EVER have $400k the chances of me EVER going broke are extremely remote.
In fact, even with a poker bankroll at only $10k-$20k I'm fairly confident that it's pretty unlikely to happen.


It's $400-freaking-K.
And he blows it all online and doesn't have a quarter to his name?!?!

I mean, if I ever went on such a losing streak at fairly high limits with a $400k roll I would at least have the common-sense to slow-down after dropping the first $200k or $300k or $350k.
Blowing through all of it is just idiotic.


Obviously he's not the first to have done something like this so I'm probably just under-estimating the power of tilt and gambling-addiction, etc etc.

[billyjex]

He looks alot like Ben Stiller's alleged kid in Meet the Fockers

[SMB]

He looks like he just [censored] himself.

[mmcd]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Just read Bluff Magazine where Matasow says he came into this year's WSOP "without a quarter," because he said he lost $400,000 playing online.

[/ QUOTE ]


I saw this too. Amazing.


Difference between me and Matusow: If I EVER have $400k the chances of me EVER going broke are extremely remote.
In fact, even with a poker bankroll at only $10k-$20k I'm fairly confident that it's pretty unlikely to happen.


It's $400-freaking-K.
And he blows it all online and doesn't have a quarter to his name?!?!

I mean, if I ever went on such a losing streak at fairly high limits with a $400k roll I would at least have the common-sense to slow-down after dropping the first $200k or $300k or $350k.
Blowing through all of it is just idiotic.


Obviously he's not the first to have done something like this so I'm probably just under-estimating the power of tilt and gambling-addiction, etc etc.

[/ QUOTE ]


I think a big difference between Matusow and guys like you or me is that if he goes broke, he can easily get a stake to keep playing whatever games he regularly plays. If I play above my bankroll and blow off a huge chunk of cash over a few nights, I'd have to move down, Matusow would just have to make a few phone calls. At least part of the reason these players seem to have so much more gamble in them is that their actual bankroll is much bigger than the amount of money they have at any given time.

[MicroBob]

[ QUOTE ]
their actual bankroll is much bigger than the amount of money they have at any given time.

[/ QUOTE ]


certainly true and a valid point.

[idrinkcoors]

I just re-read that interview, and completly forgot the first part, where he says that he WAS going to re-do his house, but that it is on hold because he just lost $700k. i know he won 1 million at the WSOP, but dang. Maybe he just doesn't mention his big scores. He also says he doesn't care about money....good thing.

I will say though that I would love to see his bankroll swings.

[KaneKungFu123]

im guessing matusow makes himself look worse then he is.

[cwsiggy]

I would say so given the pic of him in Bluff magazine of him standing in front of his nice house in Henderson and smokin BMW.

[fsuplayer]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Just read Bluff Magazine where Matasow says he came into this year's WSOP "without a quarter," because he said he lost $400,000 playing online.

[/ QUOTE ]


I saw this too. Amazing.


Difference between me and Matusow: If I EVER have $400k the chances of me EVER going broke are extremely remote.
In fact, even with a poker bankroll at only $10k-$20k I'm fairly confident that it's pretty unlikely to happen.


It's $400-freaking-K.
And he blows it all online and doesn't have a quarter to his name?!?!

I mean, if I ever went on such a losing streak at fairly high limits with a $400k roll I would at least have the common-sense to slow-down after dropping the first $200k or $300k or $350k.
Blowing through all of it is just idiotic.


Obviously he's not the first to have done something like this so I'm probably just under-estimating the power of tilt and gambling-addiction, etc etc.

[/ QUOTE ]

cocaine's a hell of a drug.

[MRBAA]

Naw, it's the other way around. These guys attract backers because they are stone cold gamblers with no respect for money. The smart ones set some aside for the real world at some point, the more out of control ones don't. But at the table, they're all capable of huge swings.

[MicroBob]

[ QUOTE ]

their actual bankroll is much bigger than the amount of money they have at any given time.


certainly true and a valid point.

[/ QUOTE ]


I was re-thinking this last night and have changed my mind a little bit.


1. It is my hunch that Matusow would still have these very same money-management problems even if he had nobody to stake him. He is just that undisciplined.

2. I actually DO have recourse if I were to bust-out. There's no way my friends and family would let me wallow with no money. I would be able absolutely be able to get more cash.
In fact, I could probably get people to stake me RIGHT NOW if I wanted to even though I already have a sufficient roll.
I could even probably get staked in a way that was extremely advantageous to me.

But I don't put my bankroll to this kind of risk and I GENERALLY *** don't seek out such staking arrangements.
Maybe it's a fine-line.


*** - I did accept some 1% shares of my WSOP $10k buy-in via my blog. But I specifically stated that I didn't need the money...just thought it would be fun for some people who couldn't be there. I also made it clear that it was very possibly not a +EV investment.
I think this is very different than Matusow blowing through $400k and being pseudo-flat-broke....then making a ton at the WSOP...then blowing through that again.

[mmcd]

My point was that Matusow and those like him can probably drum up 6 figure stakes really easily, so even if he's only got 500k, he can still jump in a 2000/4000 game and not have to worry about losing his earning capacity if he busts. It's not a matter of starving if you bust, it's a matter of having your hourly rate severely reduced. With mid-limit games, it's less pronounced because you don't need a ridiculous amount of money for a bankroll, but if you played 100/200 as your regular game and got busted taking a shot at 300/600, you probably wouldn't be able to make a couple calls and round up 100k so you could keep going at 1/2.

[worthless]

Chau Giang is busted from a 23 million dollar bankroll.

[trying2learn]

[ QUOTE ]
Chau Giang is busted from a 23 million dollar bankroll.

[/ QUOTE ]

this is false. he was in the big game last week.

[worthless]

It's not false. He must have been put into it by someone. I know he is being backed on the tournament circuit when he plays and he doesn't have a bankroll to play that game.

Trust me, I have a very good source.

[MicroBob]

The information you provide is true to your name.


Just because you are backed in your tourney-play doesn't mean you are bust.

[trying2learn]

[ QUOTE ]
It's not false. He must have been put into it by someone. I know he is being backed on the tournament circuit when he plays and he doesn't have a bankroll to play that game.

Trust me, I have a very good source.

[/ QUOTE ]

the problem with, "very good" sources is that (unless it's Chau himself) - they can't know . keep spreading gossip though...that's what this forum is for.

[El Diablo]

[ QUOTE ]
It's not false. He must have been put into it by someone. I know he is being backed on the tournament circuit when he plays and he doesn't have a bankroll to play that game.

Trust me, I have a very good source.

[/ QUOTE ]

WTF? If true, how has this rumor not been spreading like wildfire? Seems hard to believe!

[Sponger.]

[ QUOTE ]
Chau Giang is busted from a 23 million dollar bankroll.

[/ QUOTE ]

Naw, he is just on a 2,875BB downswing.

He will get it all back and then some. Mark my words.

[Quicksilvre]

[ QUOTE ]
Chau Giang is busted from a 23 million dollar bankroll.

[/ QUOTE ]

That seems absolutely incredible. I've heard (http://www.barrygreenstein.com/player.htm) that he can be a steamer, but unless he's dropping $100,000 markers onto the roulette table, losing that about seems impossible.

[worthless]

My source is Carlos Mortenson. I don't know why he would have given me false information or say something like that if he didn't know it were true.

I still believe that Chau was or is still broke. (Of course, his broke could be a couple hundred thousand as a bankroll, compared to like 1k for us).

[phish]

[ QUOTE ]
My source is Carlos Mortenson. I don't know why he would have given me false information or say something like that if he didn't know it were true.

I still believe that Chau was or is still broke. (Of course, his broke could be a couple hundred thousand as a bankroll, compared to like 1k for us).

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think Mortenssen is a good source for a rumor like this. However, it IS possible that he has lost a lot of money over the past couple of years or so. I think the rumor is that Greenstein and Ivy have won tons over that period of time, and who're they going to win it from? Gotta be another of the regulars cause it's a fairly small circle who plays that game with any regularity.

[BluffTHIS!]

El D,

I heard you lost 50% of your roll recently on a prop bet with Ray Zee. What I heard was that you were talking to him on the phone and he mentioned there was a beaver in his back yard and he offered to bet you 50% of your roll on whether the beaver went to the left or the right from the spot he was resting on. Naturally RZ's word would be good enough as to the result. You then accepted and chose left, and RZ said wait a minute, and then went out back where he drug the dead beaver to the right. Then he came back and told you the result, and that it served you right for betting on beavers.

[K\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\'s Deal]

[ QUOTE ]
My source is Carlos Mortenson.

[/ QUOTE ]

Good job dude. If you are in fact telling the truth, then you are selling out your source.

Good thing nobody believes you anyway.

[AEKDBet]

bump

C'mon pple more gossip please. This stuff is gold!

[emil3000]

What happened to that Shawn Keller dude who used to play the big games on UB? He go bust?

[K\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\'s Deal]

[ QUOTE ]
What happened to that Shawn Keller dude who used to play the big games on UB? He go bust?

[/ QUOTE ]

I took him for ~125K and I haven't heard from him in a looong while.

[gilbert]

[ QUOTE ]
What happened to that Shawn Keller dude who used to play the big games on UB? He go bust?

[/ QUOTE ]

there was a rumor on here a while back that he lost over half of $500k he had on UB playing neverwin HU.

[Schneids]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
What happened to that Shawn Keller dude who used to play the big games on UB? He go bust?

[/ QUOTE ]

there was a rumor on here a while back that he lost over half of $500k he had on UB playing neverwin HU.

[/ QUOTE ]

There was also a rumor he lost a lot to Jarle and the Norwegian crew, however, Keller still plays high on Crypto so I dunno what is true or not about him.

[obi---one]

[ QUOTE ]
My source is Carlos Mortenson.

[/ QUOTE ]


I have a credible source. I won't tell you who it is unless some anonymous person on an internet chat room will ask me nicely. then of course i will.

[antifish225]

I have a credible source. I won't tell you who it is unless some anonymous person on an internet chat room will ask me nicely. then of course i will.

[/ QUOTE ]

Brilliant

[El Diablo]

Rumor: Tuan Le (recent 2M+ and 1M+ tourney wins - that he had 50% of, I believe) BUSTO. High-stakes poker and pit games.

Rumor: Michael Mizrachi, The Grinder (recent 1M+ tourney win, multiple smaller wins) BUSTO. Pit games.

These are both COMPLETELY UNSUBSTANTIATED RUMORS that I have heard from multiple unconnected sources.

Anyone know any facts?

[fnord_too]

[ QUOTE ]
BUSTO. ... pit games.

BUSTO. Pit games.



[/ QUOTE ]

I know poker attracts people who like to gambooool, but how can people be so friggin math impaired?

[Kneel B4 Zod]

[ QUOTE ]
Rumor: Tuan Le (recent 2M+ and 1M+ tourney wins - that he had 50% of, I believe) BUSTO. High-stakes poker and pit games.

Rumor: Michael Mizrachi, The Grinder (recent 1M+ tourney win, multiple smaller wins) BUSTO. Pit games.

These are both COMPLETELY UNSUBSTANTIATED RUMORS that I have heard from multiple unconnected sources.

Anyone know any facts?

[/ QUOTE ]

I saw the grinder playing at the Master Classics in Amsterdam (4000 euro event) a few weeks back. don't know if he was being staked or not.

also, he was a douchebag.

[BluffTHIS!]

http://www.graystaronline.com/i//tjcloutier.gif

"Pit games can be rough on the 'ol bankroll."

[ActionBob]

[ QUOTE ]
I know poker attracts people who like to gambooool, but how can people be so friggin math impaired?

[/ QUOTE ]

You've obviously never played with my Modified Mini Martingale Three Card Poker system.

-ActionBob

[gilbert]

[ QUOTE ]
Rumor: Michael Mizrachi, The Grinder (recent 1M+ tourney win, multiple smaller wins) BUSTO. Pit games.

[/ QUOTE ]

I remember before he won any wpt events he used to play in the stars 100 game a lot, and I noticed a couple months back he was playing one table of 30/60 all day. maybe it was someone playing on his account but those are pretty weak stakes for a poker millionaire.

[idrinkcoors]

Another off topic post, but at the Rio during the WSOP, I was playing craps and doing my stupid hard eight bets when the stickman told me that John Pham had been there the night before and put $700 on the hard eight. It hit and he pressed it, and it hit again for $70,000. I didn't think the limits were that high, but this came directly from the stickman.

[Sponger.]

I heard this guy went bust...

Robert Hwang
[ Results | Stats ]

19-Sep-05 United States $ 9,700 Championship Event - No Limit Hold'em
2005 Borgata Poker Open - WPT, Atlantic City 5th $ 299,730
14-Sep-05 United States $ 1,500 No Limit Hold'em
2005 Borgata Poker Open - WPT, Atlantic City 1st $ 129,600
15-Nov-03 United States $ 200 No Limit Hold'em
2003 Showdown at the Sands, Atlantic City 12th $ 2,622

[Boris]

I know that Mizrachi was 100% staked in his tournies. I'm guessing he got between 40 and 50% of what he won. Not sure about the broke part.

[rowdyclassmate]

He probably played at the $50 / $100 min. split craps table. One side has a $50 min, the other a $100 min. It was at the latter, during the WSOP, that I saw a Greek gentleman get a marker for $50k and proceed to explain to everyone that his nephew is learning the game. First roll... 7 out.

[BradL]

I know Mike a bit and I am pretty sure he is not busto.

P.S. he has a very solid staker, however.

-Brad

[BradL]

[ QUOTE ]

I remember before he won any wpt events he used to play in the stars 100 game a lot, and I noticed a couple months back he was playing one table of 30/60 all day. maybe it was someone playing on his account but those are pretty weak stakes for a poker millionaire.


[/ QUOTE ]

He, like many other tournament pros has a backer and may not take as much from the tournaments as youHe, like many other tournament pros has a backer and may not take as much from the tournaments as you imagine. I played baccarat a few months back with his backer at the bellagio. I do not know their arrangement but I’m sure its lucrative for both parties.

-Brad

[AEKDBet]

[ QUOTE ]
Another off topic post, but at the Rio during the WSOP, I was playing craps and doing my stupid hard eight bets when the stickman told me that John Pham had been there the night before and put $700 on the hard eight. It hit and he pressed it, and it hit again for $70,000. I didn't think the limits were that high, but this came directly from the stickman.

[/ QUOTE ]

ON TOPIC BABY!! - keep em comin'

[miajag]

[ QUOTE ]

Rumor: Michael Mizrachi, The Grinder (recent 1M+ tourney win, multiple smaller wins) BUSTO. Pit games.


[/ QUOTE ]

God, I hope this is true.

[MCS]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Rumor: Michael Mizrachi, The Grinder (recent 1M+ tourney win, multiple smaller wins) BUSTO. Pit games.


[/ QUOTE ]

God, I hope this is true.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why?

[daryn]

[ QUOTE ]
I heard this guy went bust...

Robert Hwang
[ Results | Stats ]

19-Sep-05 United States $ 9,700 Championship Event - No Limit Hold'em
2005 Borgata Poker Open - WPT, Atlantic City 5th $ 299,730
14-Sep-05 United States $ 1,500 No Limit Hold'em
2005 Borgata Poker Open - WPT, Atlantic City 1st $ 129,600
15-Nov-03 United States $ 200 No Limit Hold'em
2003 Showdown at the Sands, Atlantic City 12th $ 2,622

[/ QUOTE ]

is that hangtwang?

[flawless_victory]

thats actionbob, apparently.

[MicroBob]

[ QUOTE ]

Anyone know any facts?

[/ QUOTE ]



About anything????


At all????

[Equal]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Anyone know any facts?

[/ QUOTE ]



About anything????


At all????

[/ QUOTE ]

Check the News, Views, and Facts forum for that.

[Barry]

[ QUOTE ]
You've obviously never played with my Modified Mini Martingale Three Card Poker system

[/ QUOTE ]

Is that the one that step 1 is "Play every hand blind"?

[phish]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Rumor: Michael Mizrachi, The Grinder (recent 1M+ tourney win, multiple smaller wins) BUSTO. Pit games.

[/ QUOTE ]

I remember before he won any wpt events he used to play in the stars 100 game a lot, and I noticed a couple months back he was playing one table of 30/60 all day. maybe it was someone playing on his account but those are pretty weak stakes for a poker millionaire.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not if you saw how he played.

[sweetjazz]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Anyone know any facts?

[/ QUOTE ]



About anything????


At all????

[/ QUOTE ]

Well you take the good, you take the bad,
you take them both and there you have
the facts of life.

[27offsuit]

[ QUOTE ]
My source is Carlos Mortenson. I don't know why he would have given me false information or say something like that if he didn't know it were true.

I still believe that Chau was or is still broke. (Of course, his broke could be a couple hundred thousand as a bankroll, compared to like 1k for us).

[/ QUOTE ]

No one likes a rat....

Learn it. Live it.

[DcifrThs]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Rumor: Michael Mizrachi, The Grinder (recent 1M+ tourney win, multiple smaller wins) BUSTO. Pit games.

[/ QUOTE ]

I remember before he won any wpt events he used to play in the stars 100 game a lot, and I noticed a couple months back he was playing one table of 30/60 all day. maybe it was someone playing on his account but those are pretty weak stakes for a poker millionaire.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not if you saw how he played.

[/ QUOTE ]

i dont remember "The Grinder" on stars...is that his alias there?

Barron

[Ed Miller]

[ QUOTE ]
I do not know their arrangement but I’m sure its lucrative for both parties.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't know their arrangement, but I'm not at all sure it's lucrative for his backer.

And I'm not saying one thing about Grinder's play. The fact is, a lot of these backing arrangements I hear about (mostly second hand, in the interest of full disclosure) can't possibly be profitable for the backer no matter how well his horse plays.

For instance, if Grinder did indeed get 100% staked, yet got to keep 40-50% of his big win... that is highly suggestive to me that his backer is taking way the worst of it.

[TheWorstPlayer]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I do not know their arrangement but I’m sure its lucrative for both parties.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't know their arrangement, but I'm not at all sure it's lucrative for his backer.

And I'm not saying one thing about Grinder's play. The fact is, a lot of these backing arrangements I hear about (mostly second hand, in the interest of full disclosure) can't possibly be profitable for the backer no matter how well his horse plays.

For instance, if Grinder did indeed get 100% staked, yet got to keep 40-50% of his big win... that is highly suggestive to me that his backer is taking way the worst of it.

[/ QUOTE ]
Taking way the worst of it <> unprofitable. Just because the risk/reward ratio is undesirable, doesn't mean he isn't making money on the deal.

[Ed Miller]

[ QUOTE ]
Taking way the worst of it <> unprofitable. Just because the risk/reward ratio is undesirable, doesn't mean he isn't making money on the deal.

[/ QUOTE ]

The way I intended it, "taking way the worst of it" did mean literally unprofitable. As in -EV.

To make 100% backing deals for major tournaments profitable long-term for a backer, you'd either have to give a tiny percent to the horse, put the horse on a salary (perhaps with promise of a better future deal with good results), or deduct losses against wins over literally years and years before you pay out.

The backing deals where people sell percentages of themselves make a lot more sense.

[El Diablo]

Ed,

We appreciate your analysis here and comments re: EV of various backing scenarios, blah blah blah.

But, look, you're a poker insider in Vegas. Please give us some hot gossip regarding who is BUSTO.

Thanks

[Ed Miller]

[ QUOTE ]
Ed,

We appreciate your analysis here and comments re: EV of various backing scenarios, blah blah blah.

But, look, you're a poker insider in Vegas. Please give us some hot gossip regarding who is BUSTO.

Thanks

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh sorry. I heard Ed Miller is playing $3-$6 on Party. And I heard he doesn't even have the roll for that, so he sold 50% to his wife. I think the arrangement is very lucrative for both sides, though, so don't worry.

[gilbert]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Ed,

We appreciate your analysis here and comments re: EV of various backing scenarios, blah blah blah.

But, look, you're a poker insider in Vegas. Please give us some hot gossip regarding who is BUSTO.

Thanks

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh sorry. I heard Ed Miller is playing $3-$6 on Party. And I heard he doesn't even have the roll for that, so he sold 50% to his wife. I think the arrangement is very lucrative for both sides, though, so don't worry.

[/ QUOTE ]

so ed finally moved up in stakes? /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Boris]

If the Grinder has a positive expectation in tournaments how could his backer(s) have a negative expectation on the deal?

[Steve Giufre]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Well not an online superstar nor a young gun. But it appears that maybe Grizzle is down & out for a bit. Last seen being put into a 300-600 game and went bust. Known for tilting off tremendous amounts. Especially when drinking. Have seen him within the last 6 months as low as 8-16 but not seen hide nor hair in 60 days or so.

Just means it can happen to anyone. Maybe a course in "tiltless" from TA is in order.

[/ QUOTE ]

I was playing at Borgata during the WPT and a 2+2er came over to say hi. I asked him what he was playing and he said, "200/400. Sam Grizzle is playing. He's terrible." That was about 6 weeks ago.

[/ QUOTE ]

That could have been me, I was in that game, and he really plays terrible. If he thinks he has 6 outs he gets to the river pretty much regardless of the size of the pot. A few months earlier I saw him begging for money to get into a 100 dollar satelite in Vegas. I played too cause I thought it would be fun to play with him, and he played sorta expertly and busted out 5th or so. Talk about a guy who hates life.

[Steve Giufre]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]


XXRAGEDXX, chipmovr, and Jordan Berkowitz are 3 guys under 20 who have had such crazy swings. Neverwin also had a similar run up/down/up. Their ups and downs have been documented in posts here and on neverwinpoker.com. There are also multiple European kids in their teens and early twenties who have made hundreds of thousands (or more) and have managed to go broke. I'm aware of one Euro kid who was up somewhere between 500k-1M and is now in debt for about 500k. These are the types of swings that happen to guys who play in a manner to run up huge rolls starting from 5-10 and months later are playing 400-800HU.

[/ QUOTE ]

What's the latest on neverwin?

[/ QUOTE ]

No idea. Last I heard he was gonna play Dan N. in the Wynn challenge, so I assume he's been running decent.

[/ QUOTE ]

About 3 weeks ago I was playing Stars and NW was in the game. Medan sat down and started telling NW about this unreal 3-6 or 4-8 (dont remember) game that was going at commerce. NW then said he didnt have any cash on him, and asked to borrow like 30k, and told Medan "dont worry I have over a mil online." For all I know he had his whole bankroll on the table, but he claimed to have some dough.

[El Diablo]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Well not an online superstar nor a young gun. But it appears that maybe Grizzle is down & out for a bit. Last seen being put into a 300-600 game and went bust. Known for tilting off tremendous amounts. Especially when drinking. Have seen him within the last 6 months as low as 8-16 but not seen hide nor hair in 60 days or so.

Just means it can happen to anyone. Maybe a course in "tiltless" from TA is in order.

[/ QUOTE ]

I was playing at Borgata during the WPT and a 2+2er came over to say hi. I asked him what he was playing and he said, "200/400. Sam Grizzle is playing. He's terrible." That was about 6 weeks ago.

[/ QUOTE ]

That could have been me, I was in that game, and he really plays terrible. If he thinks he has 6 outs he gets to the river pretty much regardless of the size of the pot. A few months earlier I saw him begging for money to get into a 100 dollar satelite in Vegas. I played too cause I thought it would be fun to play with him, and he played sorta expertly and busted out 5th or so. Talk about a guy who hates life.

[/ QUOTE ]

Steve,

Thanks for this excellent anecdote.

ANYONE WHO HAS GOOD STORIES ABOUT HIGH-PROFILE PLAYERS WHO ARE BUSTO, BROKE, DESPERATE, ETC., PLEASE POST THEM HERE!

The more degenerate-sounding the anecdote, the better.

[Schneids]

[ QUOTE ]

ANYONE WHO HAS GOOD STORIES ABOUT HIGH-PROFILE PLAYERS WHO ARE BUSTO, BROKE, DESPERATE, ETC., PLEASE POST THEM HERE!

The more degenerate-sounding the anecdote, the better.

[/ QUOTE ]

Do they have to be true stories? Can I talk about who's friends with who, who hates who, who sleeps with who, etc?

[voltron.]

[ QUOTE ]
Do they have to be true stories?

[/ QUOTE ]

No.

[Ed Miller]

[ QUOTE ]
If the Grinder has a positive expectation in tournaments how could his backer(s) have a negative expectation on the deal?

[/ QUOTE ]

Say horse plays ten-handed, no-vig, winner-take-all single table tournaments. If horse wins, he keeps 30% of the win. If horse loses, backer eats the whole entry.

Horse is a good player, so he wins 1/8th of the time. Thus, after eight plays:

Seven times he busts out, so backer is minus 7 entries. Horse is minus nothing.

One time he wins, so backer wins 70% of 9 entries or 6.3 entries. Horse wins 30% of 9 entries or 2.7 entries.

After 8 tournaments, horse is up 2.7 entries, but backer is stuck 0.7 entries.

For backer to come out ahead, one of the following needs to happen:

1. Horse needs to play better.
2. Horse's percentage needs to drop. 15% would work in this scenario.
3. Horse needs to be paid a fixed amount per tournament, and backer gets 100% of win.
4. Horse and backer need to contract to extend their relationship over a large number of tournaments, after which horse will get some percentage of the total net, not the total gross. The longer the relationship, the higher that percentage can be for the horse and still remain profitable for the backer.

[James282]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Well not an online superstar nor a young gun. But it appears that maybe Grizzle is down & out for a bit. Last seen being put into a 300-600 game and went bust. Known for tilting off tremendous amounts. Especially when drinking. Have seen him within the last 6 months as low as 8-16 but not seen hide nor hair in 60 days or so.

Just means it can happen to anyone. Maybe a course in "tiltless" from TA is in order.

[/ QUOTE ]

I was playing at Borgata during the WPT and a 2+2er came over to say hi. I asked him what he was playing and he said, "200/400. Sam Grizzle is playing. He's terrible." That was about 6 weeks ago.

[/ QUOTE ]

That could have been me, I was in that game, and he really plays terrible. If he thinks he has 6 outs he gets to the river pretty much regardless of the size of the pot. A few months earlier I saw him begging for money to get into a 100 dollar satelite in Vegas. I played too cause I thought it would be fun to play with him, and he played sorta expertly and busted out 5th or so. Talk about a guy who hates life.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hey Steve, I think Dave might have been talking about me since you ran off like a little bitch to go out to strip clubs with Femming. I met Sam for the first time on that trip also. I go to sit 150-300 and say hi to my friend Peter who is in the game. I ask him how the game is, he nods. The game is good. So I sit, and own some old guy who is drinking and talking to someone who looks like a Texas millionaire. The guy sitting with him says, "howsabout I put you in that No Limit game instead?" The old man nods and they leave.

I say to the table, now filled with regulars, "Man that guy was absolutely horrible, I'm going to take a break until the game gets good again."

"Do you know who that was James??"
"The worst player to sit 150 or higher in months."
"Yeah, that was Sam Grizzle."

I wake up at some point the next day and go downstairs to see my friend Steve Guifre playing 200-400. I greet him and ask him how Sam is playing. He confirms that it's a good game.
-James

[Mempho]

[ QUOTE ]
I have nice info about most of scandinavian players, if anyone is really curious U can PM me! State online nick or
real name

[/ QUOTE ]

I believe Mattias Andersson went broke.

[ActionBob]

[ QUOTE ]
Is that the one that step 1 is "Play every hand blind"?

[/ QUOTE ]

Of course you play every hand blind. If you look you might do something stupid like fold and that screws up the entire scientifically tested progression of your bet sizes thus nullifying the whole system.

-ActionBob

[MCS]

[ QUOTE ]
If the Grinder has a positive expectation in tournaments how could his backer(s) have a negative expectation on the deal?

[/ QUOTE ]

Because they have 100% of the result if he loses money, but only 60% if he wins. From the backer's perspective, the tournament payouts have just shrunk by a lot, and Grinder is likely -EV in this "new" tournament.

EDIT: And somehow I missed Ed's initial, more numerically detailed reply.

[BluffTHIS!]

http://www.graystaronline.com/i//tjcloutier.gif


"I'm a very fast running horse on the craps table Mr. Miller. Would you like to back me? I'll let you set the percentage so that you come out ahead. And believe you me, this is a great time for you to do it cause I'm really really due."

[LozColbert]

[ QUOTE ]

Oh sorry. I heard Ed Miller is playing $3-$6 on Party. And I heard he doesn't even have the roll for that, so he sold 50% to his wife. I think the arrangement is very lucrative for both sides, though, so don't worry.

[/ QUOTE ] The way he spews chips? I doubt it's lucrative.

[Barry]

[ QUOTE ]
"Do you know who that was James??"
"The worst player to sit 150 or higher in months."
"Yeah, that was Sam Grizzle."

I wake up at some point the next day and go downstairs to see my friend Steve Guifre playing 200-400. I greet him and ask him how Sam is playing. He confirms that it's a good game.


[/ QUOTE ]

A while back, Clarkmeister and I sit in a 6 handed 60/120 game at the Bellagio. After the game broke, I was talking to him about my impressions of the fishy player to my right. He tells me that it was Sam Grizzle.

[El Diablo]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
"Do you know who that was James??"
"The worst player to sit 150 or higher in months."
"Yeah, that was Sam Grizzle."

I wake up at some point the next day and go downstairs to see my friend Steve Guifre playing 200-400. I greet him and ask him how Sam is playing. He confirms that it's a good game.


[/ QUOTE ]

A while back, Clarkmeister and I sit in a 6 handed 60/120 game at the Bellagio. After the game broke, I was talking to him about my impressions of the fishy player to my right. He tells me that it was Sam Grizzle.

[/ QUOTE ]

Guys, I just want to clarify. This thread is not for discussions of who plays bad. We all know tons of people who play bad. Of course, you are welcome to start a thread about players who play bad if that is of interest to you.

However, this thread is for discussions of players, especially well-known or respected ones, who have gone BUSTO!!!!!!!!!!!!

[BluffTHIS!]

[ QUOTE ]
However, this thread is for discussions of players, especially well-known or respected ones, who have gone BUSTO!!!!!!!!!!!!

[/ QUOTE ]

You would think the Bustos had heard about this thread and just come forward and outed themselves wouldn't you? Seems like it would help them in their healing process.

[sweetjazz]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Ed,

We appreciate your analysis here and comments re: EV of various backing scenarios, blah blah blah.

But, look, you're a poker insider in Vegas. Please give us some hot gossip regarding who is BUSTO.

Thanks

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh sorry. I heard Ed Miller is playing $3-$6 on Party. And I heard he doesn't even have the roll for that, so he sold 50% to his wife. I think the arrangement is very lucrative for both sides, though, so don't worry.

[/ QUOTE ]

You should read TwoPlusTwo's Small Stakes Hold 'Em. It will teach you all you need to know to crush these games. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Mason Malmuth]

[ QUOTE ]
Horse and backer need to contract to extend their relationship over a large number of tournaments, after which horse will get some percentage of the total net, not the total gross. The longer the relationship, the higher that percentage can be for the horse and still remain profitable for the backer.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hi Ed:

I'm not so sure. My observation is something like this: Horse is now pretty much in the hole which means that he has to win a fair amount before he can begin to receive any money. Thus it's in his best interest to play like a crazy man since he'll feel that unless he wins the tourney (or places very high) it's not worth his time. Thus he becomes a bad player and his staker gets even more in the hole until the horse is told to find someone else to back him, which is of course exactly what the horse wants at this point.

Best wishes,
Mason

[Mason Malmuth]

Hi Ed:

In the world of blackjack, one strategy some of the more successful teams have done is to put a player on a salary with a promise of a bonus if they win over some period of time. This might actually be a good way to stake a "great player" in poker tournaments. Give him a small salary, but if he is ahead after a certain number of tournaments (agreed upon in advance) give him an additional percentage.

best wishes,
Mason

[ThaHero]

Wow, this thread is really killing poor Sam Grizzle!!!

[flawless_victory]

[ QUOTE ]
Wow, this thread is really killing poor Sam Grizzle!!!

[/ QUOTE ]
yeah, but he is really is horrible.

[Cancuk]

link (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showprofile.php?Cat=0&User=28409&Board=plnlpoker&w hat=ubbthreads&page=0)

[Sponger.]

[ QUOTE ]
ANYONE WHO HAS GOOD STORIES ABOUT HIGH-PROFILE PLAYERS WHO ARE BUSTO, BROKE, DESPERATE, ETC., PLEASE POST THEM HERE!

[/ QUOTE ]

Schneids is so desperate I heard he got rejected by a fat, ugly chick last weekend.

[ggbman]

I didn't tell anyone, but over the weekend where all the 2+2er's met in vegas, i sat in the big game for a while. I busted Todd Brunson and Eli E., but i am currently staking them since they might be +EV without me in the game.

Seriously the chance of getting anything confirmed through reliable sources in this thread is about nil.

[PartyGirlUK]

Who is Sam Grizzle (apart from a high stakes fish)?

[miajag]

[ QUOTE ]
Who is Sam Grizzle (apart from a high stakes fish)?

[/ QUOTE ]

I think his main claim to fame is that he once got in a fight with Phil Hellmuth.

[The DaveR]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Well not an online superstar nor a young gun. But it appears that maybe Grizzle is down & out for a bit. Last seen being put into a 300-600 game and went bust. Known for tilting off tremendous amounts. Especially when drinking. Have seen him within the last 6 months as low as 8-16 but not seen hide nor hair in 60 days or so.

Just means it can happen to anyone. Maybe a course in "tiltless" from TA is in order.

[/ QUOTE ]

I was playing at Borgata during the WPT and a 2+2er came over to say hi. I asked him what he was playing and he said, "200/400. Sam Grizzle is playing. He's terrible." That was about 6 weeks ago.

[/ QUOTE ]

That could have been me, I was in that game, and he really plays terrible. If he thinks he has 6 outs he gets to the river pretty much regardless of the size of the pot. A few months earlier I saw him begging for money to get into a 100 dollar satelite in Vegas. I played too cause I thought it would be fun to play with him, and he played sorta expertly and busted out 5th or so. Talk about a guy who hates life.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hey Steve, I think Dave might have been talking about me since you ran off like a little bitch to go out to strip clubs with Femming. I met Sam for the first time on that trip also. I go to sit 150-300 and say hi to my friend Peter who is in the game. I ask him how the game is, he nods. The game is good. So I sit, and own some old guy who is drinking and talking to someone who looks like a Texas millionaire. The guy sitting with him says, "howsabout I put you in that No Limit game instead?" The old man nods and they leave.

I say to the table, now filled with regulars, "Man that guy was absolutely horrible, I'm going to take a break until the game gets good again."

"Do you know who that was James??"
"The worst player to sit 150 or higher in months."
"Yeah, that was Sam Grizzle."

I wake up at some point the next day and go downstairs to see my friend Steve Guifre playing 200-400. I greet him and ask him how Sam is playing. He confirms that it's a good game.
-James

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, it was Peter who said hi.

[The DaveR]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Horse and backer need to contract to extend their relationship over a large number of tournaments, after which horse will get some percentage of the total net, not the total gross. The longer the relationship, the higher that percentage can be for the horse and still remain profitable for the backer.

[/ QUOTE ]



Hi Ed:

I'm not so sure. My observation is something like this: Horse is now pretty much in the hole which means that he has to win a fair amount before he can begin to receive any money. Thus it's in his best interest to play like a crazy man since he'll feel that unless he wins the tourney (or places very high) it's not worth his time. Thus he becomes a bad player and his staker gets even more in the hole until the horse is told to find someone else to back him, which is of course exactly what the horse wants at this point.

Best wishes,
Mason

[/ QUOTE ]

Stated differently, if you're long a call option you should maximize your variance.

[JohnnyHumongous]

I keep seeing ebolivia (WSOP bracelet winner Edward Moncada) at 20/40 and even 10/20 on Party. Not bust but not exactly as high as I'd expect.

[thehotspur]

Guess he didn't shout "NO BUSTO!!!!"

[shaniac]

[ QUOTE ]
I know that Mizrachi was 100% staked in his tournies. I'm guessing he got between 40 and 50% of what he won. Not sure about the broke part.

[/ QUOTE ]

Pretty sure that backing deal didn't come together until after his LAPC 1M win.

Response to other snippets from this thread:

Although he loves action, I don't think he's gone broke in the pit. Pretty sure that Mike, at the very least, locked up some real estate after his score.

I'm also somewhat sure the people calling him a "douchebag" have never met him or talked to him, since Michael is really the opposite, a total sweetheart.

Lastly, I think it's hilarious that when someone is seen playing lower stakes than their bankroll should permit them to, that they are immediately assumed to have gone broke. I remember walking into the big room at the Rio over the summer and Grinder was sitting in the $200 2nd-chance tourney. He said "I just woke up." Clearly he loves the action for its own sake and I think it's that love which makes him a champ. As for 1-tabling 30/60 on stars all day, that could have been any number of people playing the account.

[surfinillini]

[ QUOTE ]
Who is Sam Grizzle (apart from a high stakes fish)?

[/ QUOTE ]

Barry Greenstein said Shawn Sheikan (Sheeky) staked Grizzle in the '05 WSOP.

A little interesting note.

[DesertCat]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Who is Sam Grizzle (apart from a high stakes fish)?

[/ QUOTE ]

I think his main claim to fame is that he once knocked out Phil Hellmuth.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sam got Phil so PO'd at the poker table that Hellmuth challenged him to step outside. Sam acceded to the request, and quickly cleaning Phil's clock.

Phil's 6'5" right? How big is Sam?

[jackdaniels]

Just read this: KKF loses $365,000 in an evening! (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=4018635&an=0&page=0&gone w=1#UNREAD)

[Ansky]

that thread is a joke.

[mike l.]

"if Grinder did indeed get 100% staked, yet got to keep 40-50% of his big win"

i heard from a very good source that a certain group of famous young pros has been recently staked in tourneys by a wealthy man who loves the game, and in the arrangement some of the less known players of the group are getting a very small percentage of what they win should they place in the money. it's been a lucrative arrangement for the backer.

[gilbert]

[ QUOTE ]
Just read this: KKF loses $365,000 in an evening! (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=4018635&an=0&page=0&gone w=1#UNREAD)

[/ QUOTE ]

I thought it was true at first but I don't really railbird any of the big nl games so I wouldn't know.

[BradL]

[ QUOTE ]

i heard from a very good source that a certain group of famous young pros has been recently staked in tourneys by a wealthy man who loves the game

[/ QUOTE ]

Yup.

-Brad

[FoxwoodsFiend]

[ QUOTE ]
in just a couple years I will feel like Jay Z when he talks about new kids coming up and then shortly after watching their Rolls' get repoed.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm pretty sure it's the rovers that get repoed, not the Rolls.

[rbenuck4]

Don't know if its already been discussed, but one day Huck Seed was hitting on some chick at my table at 2 5nl, and after he left, the dealer was saying how Huck Seed was constantly broke. I have no confirmation, this was just what the Bellagio dealer was saying.

[Cancuk]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Who is Sam Grizzle (apart from a high stakes fish)?

[/ QUOTE ]

I think his main claim to fame is that he once knocked out Phil Hellmuth.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sam got Phil so PO'd at the poker table that Hellmuth challenged him to step outside. Sam acceded to the request, and quickly cleaning Phil's clock.

Phil's 6'5" right? How big is Sam?

[/ QUOTE ]

Without even knowing what Grizzle looks like..there's no way i'd fight a man with a name like Sam Grizzle. He would eat your body and feed your limbs to his grizzle cubs.

[BradleyT]

n/m

[miajag]

What ever happened to teecoy, the kid from Maryland who won the TLB on Stars last year? I never see him anymore. New screenname or busto?

[Diplomat]

Not really an internet superstar, but a well-known Canadian player nicknamed Shampoo (regular in high limits online, regular in the biggest games at Niagara [25-50 nl, 50-100 nl, 100-200 limit], 2004 Canadian Poker Championship winner) is rumoured to have gone BUSTO in the last month or so. Sources cite poor play in the 50-100 nl and house games (ie. craps and blackjack) as the source of his downfall.

Not really of broad reaching interest, but I figured the Toronto natives might find this one interesting.

-Diplomat

[MEbenhoe]

[ QUOTE ]
What ever happened to teecoy, the kid from Maryland who won the TLB on Stars last year? I never see him anymore. New screenname or busto?

[/ QUOTE ]

I heard from a friend of a guy who coaches the son of the guy who sweeps the office where teecoy's uncles barbers daughters boyfriend works, that teecoy went BUSTO.

[PokerPrince]

Yes I also heard this too and because he's such an incredible [censored] this brings great GREAT joy to me. Karma is a bitch.

[miajag]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
What ever happened to teecoy, the kid from Maryland who won the TLB on Stars last year? I never see him anymore. New screenname or busto?

[/ QUOTE ]

I heard from a friend of a guy who coaches the son of the guy who sweeps the office where teecoy's uncles barbers daughters boyfriend works, that teecoy went BUSTO.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sweet! Thanks for the info!

[PokerPrince]

You really feel a lot of shadenfreuden don't you? Not healthy.

[El Diablo]

[ QUOTE ]
You really feel a lot of shadenfreuden don't you? Not healthy.

[/ QUOTE ]

That from a guy who just posted this: Yes I also heard this too and because he's such an incredible [censored] this brings great GREAT joy to me. Karma is a bitch.

[La Brujita]

They spread 1-2 at Seneca Niagara? How is it?

[NajdorfDefense]

[ QUOTE ]
BTW, anyone know the latest gossip on XXRAGEDXX and Jordan Berkowitz?

[/ QUOTE ]

Rumor in PA is that Berk has gone busto. I have no clue if any truth to that.

Naj

[Freudian]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
BTW, anyone know the latest gossip on XXRAGEDXX and Jordan Berkowitz?

[/ QUOTE ]

Rumor in PA is that Berk has gone busto. I have no clue if any truth to that.

Naj

[/ QUOTE ]

I have the feeling that with that guy, the rumor was always going to be that he went broke, no matter how he was doing financially.

Him multitabling the $5k HUs the day after of course did nothing to supress those kind of rumors.

[PokerPrince]

Perhaps my statements were set up that way for a reason poindexter.

[cwsiggy]

[ QUOTE ]
I have the feeling that with that guy, the rumor was always going to be that he went broke, no matter how he was doing financially.

Him multitabling the $5k HUs the day after of course did nothing to supress those kind of rumors.


[/ QUOTE ]

If I remember, Barry Greenstein was commentating the WCOOP final table and said it was only a matter of time before Jordan goes bust(It was in reference to Jordan's cocky trash talking - Barry meant it more in the context of his age and said that usually everyone goes bust. Still pretty funny.

Those heads up 5k matches were hysterical. I watched some of them. Everyone was begging him to keep playing. lol

[Diplomat]

[ QUOTE ]
They spread 1-2 at Seneca Niagara? How is it?

[/ QUOTE ]

Not Seneca, but Niagara Fallsview (Canadian side of the Falls). There used to be a regular game that would go at noon on Thursdays, starting at 50-100 but usually ending up as 100-200 by about 5 pm. It rarely goes now as NL fever has taken over, but can be seen on rare occassions. As for how the game was, it was amazing. Then again, all the games at Niagara are amazing. It's not uncommon for a couple 10-20 nl (3k max) and 1 25-50 (10k max) or 50-100 nl (10k minimum) game to be going, with people stacking off with one pair, etc. Word on the street is that the Fallsview room will be converted to strictly high-limit, and all the lower limit (5-5 nl, etc.) will be moved down the road to the older Niagara casino. This should allow for some bigger limit games to go along side the big nl games, but that's still in the works.

-Diplomat

[NanaAnna]

I'm not sure if he's considered a superstar, but Matt Maroon said he was making over $200 K a year beating the Party 15/30 & 30/60, but now he's running all over Northern Ohio late in the night looking for Xbox 360's to flip on Ebay.

You be the judge... Busted, sad, or both? (http://www.thepokerchronicles.com/archives/000674.html)

[La Brujita]

Very cool! Thanks for the info. I will try to check it out at some point. Sounds crazy.

[Diplomat]

[ QUOTE ]
Very cool! Thanks for the info. I will try to check it out at some point. Sounds crazy.

[/ QUOTE ]

No worries, PM me if you do head up here.

-Diplomat

[JFB37]

Word around here is that former sensation akshawnd lost a big chunk of his role and is trying to grind it out at the Party $200 tables.

[MattSuspect]

[ QUOTE ]
Word around here is that former sensation akshawnd lost a big chunk of his role and is trying to grind it out at the Party $200 tables.

[/ QUOTE ]

EXCELLENT!

[Keepitsimple]

mahatma lost 897k in november which is confirmed through hand histories from prima. he isnt playing there anymore. dont know if its because he thinks they collude against him, the stakes are too high or whatever. point is that he isnt playing on primas 100/200-200/400 anymore.
http://www.neverwinpoker.com/phpnuke/htm...00&start=15 (http://www.neverwinpoker.com/phpnuke/html/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=10700&sta rt=15)

[brazilio]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
stinkypete

[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]

FYP

[Timer]

[ QUOTE ]
It's not false. He must have been put into it by someone. I know he is being backed on the tournament circuit when he plays and he doesn't have a bankroll to play that game.

Trust me, I have a very good source.

[/ QUOTE ]

LOL. I trust all anonymous trolls.

[wiggs73]

nice bump.

[maddog2030]

[ QUOTE ]
Which young online high-limit superstars have gone busto in the last few months? Any "big online names" or 2+2ers?

[/ QUOTE ]

ZEE JUSTIN!

[Riverman]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Which young online high-limit superstars have gone busto in the last few months? Any "big online names" or 2+2ers?

[/ QUOTE ]

ZEE JUSTIN!

[/ QUOTE ]

nh

[HotPants]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Which young online high-limit superstars have gone busto in the last few months? Any "big online names" or 2+2ers?

[/ QUOTE ]

ZEE JUSTIN!

[/ QUOTE ]

damnit, I clicked on this thread just to do that!!!

of course, nh

[jiggaman0204]

Same here, nh, blah blah blah

pour one out for zeejustin

[mmbt0ne]

gigabet?!?!?!?!

/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

[rothko]

[ QUOTE ]
gigabet?!?!?!?!

/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

What's the story? Somebody spill the soap opera, please.

[KaneKungFu123]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
gigabet?!?!?!?!

/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

What's the story? Somebody spill the soap opera, please.

[/ QUOTE ]

you guys use to be all over his knob. what happened?

[rothko]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
gigabet?!?!?!?!

/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

What's the story? Somebody spill the soap opera, please.

[/ QUOTE ]

you guys use to be all over his knob. what happened?

[/ QUOTE ]

We saw your avatar.

[KaneKungFu123]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
gigabet?!?!?!?!

/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

What's the story? Somebody spill the soap opera, please.

[/ QUOTE ]

you guys use to be all over his knob. what happened?

[/ QUOTE ]

We saw your avatar.

[/ QUOTE ]

huh?

[DonButtons]

I dont think gigabet is busto, but sometimes I suck at predicting these type of things. He's been playing big 10k+ live tourneys, so he could of easy gone busto like the rest of them.

Kind of old, but no one mentioned this. NUTZREALBIG on party poker went from 500k br to 25k br on party poker, as a dropout went back to school and stopped playing poker for a long time.