Why coaching when there are videos?

[Cueballmania]

I'm a limit player converting to NL. What are the advantages of getting a coach as opposed to studying videos? It seems watching videos is a lot cheaper and the time commitment is more flexible. Thanks.

[Joe Tall]

I have to say that getting both is the best way. If you work with a coaching and are watching videos you are headed down the right path. This works for anything in life, like school. There are plenty of lesson to learn from books, videos, articles, etc but getting a coach can personalize this and make sure you are applying the concepts you learn correctly. Watching videos is cheaper but having the interaction with a coach can be priceless.

[pig4bill]

If you ask questions of a video, it doesn't answer back.

[Joe Tall]

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If you ask questions of a video, it doesn't answer back.

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It's a bit more than that. I tailor make my coaching sessions according to the student and where I feel they need the most improvement. I use all different methods from phone to IM to email and all sorts of tools, from PT to PokerStove to giving reading homework. You can't get that form a video but I do try to put some of it into my videos.

[pig4bill]

Actually, I don't seem to get much out of watching videos. I can watch one 10 times and don't feel like I know anything more than before.

[Life]

Im looking for a limit coach for 15/30+. How can i go about looking for a coach? What prices should I expect to pay?

[Joe Tall]

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Im looking for a limit coach for 15/30+. How can i go about looking for a coach? What prices should I expect to pay?

[/ QUOTE ]

Expect to pay in the ~$200/hr range for a coach at that level but there are a lot of deals that offer discounts and, from experience, my "hour" is never 1-hour (usually about 1.5, I spew at the mouth!). Entity, DeathDonkey and I all coach on the side if you are interested you can find further details by emailing: support@deucescracked.com. There is an old coaching list posted in MHSH: Look Here (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=5417080&an=0&page=0#Post 5417080).

[WiltOnTilt]

The thing about videos is you can watch, think you have a concept down, try to implement it and it blows up in your face... so you can be left with asking questions like "did I forget to take something into consideration or did I just run into the top of their range? Should I even try this again at my stakes/with my image/at my table position/etc?"

These are the types of questions that never get answered from a video. If you try to post the question on a forum to get the answer you have to dance through minefield to hopefully get a correct answer... or worse you don't correctly explain the situation so even the "correct" answer is wrong or doesn't apply.

These are things that a coach can identify for you in real time. The coach is there, he knows the situation, he knows the image considerations and he can tell you which variables need to change to make it a good/marginal/bad play.

When I'm coaching my students I'll often say things like "now if he was more aggressive we'd do XYZ instead" or "if our image was tighter/looser/more aggro/passive we'd have to check/bet/raise/fold whatever instead. The idea is that we're tailoring the exact situation for the exact play and if the coach is doing a good job he's giving you guidelines for future slightly different scenarios.

Again these are things that can be tough for a video to convey... and if the student reaches a similar situation in the future he can always IM me and say "remember concept ABC -- would this be a good spot given XYZ?"

Having the coach tell you what to do is just the start -- having a coach that explains the "why" including which variables need to change to change the strategy is where the real value comes in from coaching. I've never seen a video that does that.

Videos are still very valuable, but you have to take them for what they are. As JoeTall said they aren't the end all, be all. The combination of coaching + videos is what seems to give the best results.

WoT

[reemas]

Im looking for a coach but i play at the micro levels (nl25). I probably have a few small leaks that prevent me from having a winrate high enough to move up.

Is coaching a good idea at this level and what should I expect to pay?

[WiltOnTilt]

IMO you should be able to use free/inexpensive resources to build up your game such that you can make it to at least NL50 or NL100 before hiring a coach. If you're adamant about getting a coach (maybe you learn better through verbal methods?) then I'd think you could find a NL200 or NL400 winner willing to coach you for $75-$100/hr.

Mostly though I think if you read/post a lot of poker forums, watch the videos, and find some poker friends to discuss hands with on AIM it would probably be a more cost effective solution.

Don't take this the wrong way, but if you can't move up from NL25 you probably have more than a few leaks stopping you from moving up. A coach could identify these very quickly but you'll have to shell out several buyins per hour in order to get that info...which could probably be obtained very cheaply through other methods.

If you have an extra big bankroll and you want to get on the fast track to moving up then a coach is a great idea even for a NL25 player...but you need to do it with the intention of front loading a couple thousand on multiple intense coaching sessions per week. If you're in that position it would be worth hiring a coach. If you don't have a bunch of disposable money then I'd work more on your game through the free/cheap methods.

Let me know if you have any other questions.

[reemas]

youre right. i'm looking for more serious poker friends, more than a coach. all my friends play for fun / socially. i'm able to break even with cash game/tournament combos, but i think youre advice is great.

[DJ Sensei]

Private coaching is, of course, the most efficient and effective way to improve your game, because it targets your issues most specifically. However, it may not be the most cost-efficient, especially to those players grinding it up from the bottom. Sure a coach will improve your skills at .10/.25nl or .50/1 limit, but you shouldn't have to pay too much for it, and there are many other ways to learn about beating those games. Books, videos, and of course the forums here are all quite relevant and solid ways to improve low-stakes play. As you move up in stakes, those resources decrease in availability or become more questionable in content, and thus the most trustworthy and dependable learning will come from somebody who has been there before you, and knows how to beat the game like barry bonds knows how to hit a baseball. And you won't even need steroids!

The most important thing for any student of the game is that he puts in the hours to really work on his skills. Even with the help of the best private coaches money can buy, your improvement will be measured by the efforts you put into it yourself.

[KRANTZ]

compare poker coaching to personal training for a second. videos will not motivate you to put in work and set goals. an active mentor will. videos are also generalized to be seen and understood by a vast number of viewers; personal coaching is tailored specifically to you (at least as far as the really good coaches).

poker is a very emotional game - it taxes us all mentally. having a coach on hand to vent to, or to keep an objective eye on your play through upswings (you're running hot or playing great?) and downswings (you're running bad or playing horribly?) is invaluable and well worth the cost of long-term sessions solely for that.

do you need a poker coach to succeed? absolutely not. but you need to be motivated, diligent, consistent and always, always, always possessing a strong mental toughness.

a good coach can help you with all of this.

*if anyone has any specific questions about this, feel free to PM me.

[Joe Tall]

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youre right. i'm looking for more serious poker friends, more than a coach. all my friends play for fun / socially. i'm able to break even with cash game/tournament combos, but i think youre advice is great.

[/ QUOTE ]

Coaches are exactly what you went through in your education, teachers. You can buy books, DVDs, watch presentations, videos, but do you think you would have been able to learn what you have learned in life without your school teachers?

I know I couldn't have.