Bottom two pair, lots of action

[Profish2285]

First two orbits at the table so no real reads on anyone yet.

Full Tilt Poker, $0.10/$0.25 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 5 Players
LegoPoker (http://www.legopoker.com)Hand History Converter (http://www.legopoker.com/hh)

Hero (SB): $24.40
BB: $4.05
UTG: $22.75
CO: $38.10
BTN: $32.15

Pre-Flop: 3/images/graemlins/spade.gif 2/images/graemlins/spade.gif dealt to Hero (SB)
UTG calls $0.25, CO calls $0.25, BTN calls $0.25, Hero calls $0.15, BB checks

Flop: ($1.25) 2/images/graemlins/diamond.gif 3/images/graemlins/heart.gif 6/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (5 Players)
<font color="red">Hero bets $1.25</font>, BB folds, UTG calls $1.25, CO calls $1.25, <font color="red">BTN raises to $7.50</font>,

[sobefuddled]

Reraise or fold.

[Profish2285]

Ok I know that, the question is which one and why.

[Kasane]

It's thinner than you'd like, but I think you rr strong and go broke here. Villain is unlikely to have a better 2pr or a set -- or at least more likely to have an overpair than either of those. 45 would suck, of course, but you're ahead of a lot of stuff.

This is why I used to advocate so hard for playing without a HUD. I usually had at least the beginnings of a handle on my opponent's play within a round or three by really noting how they played any one particular hand. Now that I'm playing with a HUD again, I'm in limbo for a couple rounds.

[Profish2285]

I dont use HUD, I just suck at note taking without at least four or so orbits. Anyway, I am confused, what are you saying is the move here, push or fold?

[Kasane]

"rr strong and go broke" = push

You can expect to look silly sometimes and be drawing to 4 outs, of course, but you'll be good often enough. You did complete with 23s, right? Nice for your image either way.

[Profish2285]

Yea I completed....so many limpers in front of me, I couldnt help myself. On a side note, as far as pushing goes, you do not think there is a very good chance we are behind? With all of those callers and then the villain still reraises, a set or straight isnt very likely?

[Tanky]

I would fold here, i dont know how many overpairs you see here, as surely button would raise 99+, and should be raising 77, 88 anyway. Youre probably up against a set, beter 2 pair or combo draw a lot of the time. Either way youre way behind or slightly ahead.

[Kasane]

For the times you look silly and lose to the made hand, there are two times when a guy with 88-TT calls you a fish and loses his stack to you. Or you see a combo draw that gets there or not when you're a slight fave with current overlay.

Embrace the variance if you're calling with 23s (I would have, too.)

[Profish2285]

I guess I messed this hand up but I ended up folding. One villain had AK diamonds, other had top two. Obviously two notes were made there.

[wolfbeo]

i'm probably missing something - but why would one want to play 32s, especially in SB?

[Profish2285]

Pot odds, I had almost the entire table limp to me, I had to call .15 more for a pot of $1, and if I hit a flop I am more than likely going to win a nice amount. Of course that did not work out this time, but I will always complete here with that many limpers.

[trontron]

i never complete here preflop.

and i fold here on the flop. at best, you have a coinflip (or a small favorite), but most of the time you're way behind and drawing to 4 or even only 2 outs.

[wolfbeo]

i see.

just a noob checking if his reasoning has serious flaws: the flop hits you and you bet the pot. UTG calls, his pot odds are roughly 2:1(?) - so he would need at least a flushdraw.

CO calls with pot odds a little over 3:1 - two overcards (facecards?) will do?

Button makes a huge raise that looks to me like he is protecting an overpair to board. 63 wouldn't even crossed my mind -i would have reraised.

[trontron]

a flushdraw is giving you less than 4:1 odds of hitting on the turn. and in a multiwaypot with quite some action it's really unlikely that you get a free river. the same applies for the overcards.

it's a limped 5-waypot on a very drawy board. bottom two pair is most often behind.

the button raise is a potsized bet, it's no overbet.

[wolfbeo]

good points. correcting mindset.

[slush420]

I think a fold or a push here are fine. I doubt you're giving up too much by folding and I doubt you're winning much more than 40-50% of the time by pushing.