Video NL50 4 Tables @ stars

[xeanatic]

Yo,

Made my second video today. It's 4 tables of 50NL on stars. And I'm running pretty hot in this one. Video is with sound and stats.

Let me know what you think about my play and feel free to discuss any hands.

You can download this video here: http://www.megaupload.com/nl/?d=U5IJ3BKF

My previous vid can be seen here:
http://www.megaupload.com/nl/?d=6EUW1D3Y

Enjoy!

xea

[ICMoney]

DLing now.

Will let you know.

Thanks for the vid.

[corsakh]

4tables on autoclick is painful.

[xeanatic]

[ QUOTE ]
4tables on autoclick is painful.

[/ QUOTE ]

?

It's pretty good to follow actually and I explain most of the interesting hands

[fozzy71]

Wouldnt mind watching it - if I could only download it.

Downloading from MegaUpload is so painfully slow. I got uber-fast 10mb cable - and it was taking forever. It actually stalled/froze, so I cancelled it.

[xeanatic]

any others sites I can upload it on?

[Spurious]

www.rapidshare.com (http://www.rapidshare.com)

[xeanatic]

only takes up to 100 MB, gonna look if I can make it a little smaller

[prodonkey]

How do you people play when you're sitting in different seats on different tables?

[xeanatic]

U get used to it I guess, first had a standard spot to sit on the table but couldn't get PAHUD working with it after a update or something so am living with it now lol

[prodonkey]

U sure time out a lot.

[LiveNow]

[ QUOTE ]
How do you people play when you're sitting in different seats on different tables?

[/ QUOTE ]
this is why i stopped playing on party....couldn't get used to it.

[xeanatic]

[ QUOTE ]
U sure time out a lot.

[/ QUOTE ]

yeah to busy talking about more important hands so I forgot folding some unimportant hands

[wslee00]

what's wrong w/ putting videos up on youtube?

[prodonkey]

I'd have called the fishes raise with the AQs, AQo i'd have dumped.. he seems like the type to pay u off if u hit big and he probably won't charge u much for the draw.

You bet smaller with the C-bet with the QQ on the K hi flop.. than you did when you had a good hand an orbit or so earlier.

I'd raise with the 45o when the guy limps to your BB.. as played I'd bet the turn for value and to protect against a lone diamond.. I never see anyone betting anything less than top pair in these vids.

[Nogatsira]

Yeah I don't get it either how people sit at different seats on every single table. Takes me like 3 seconds to figure out where I am and 3 more where the freakin button is at.

[21SuicideKing21]

wow this vid better be good, cause this is taking forever to download.

[21SuicideKing21]

hahaha, I only get the audio and not the picture for this video, what gives?

[xeanatic]

gotta d/l the TechSmith Screen Capture Codec (TSCC)
http://www.techsmith.com/download/codecs.asp

[21SuicideKing21]

[ QUOTE ]
gotta d/l the TechSmith Screen Capture Codec (TSCC)
http://www.techsmith.com/download/codecs.asp

[/ QUOTE ]

ahh there we go.

[xeanatic]

I'd have called the fishes raise with the AQs, AQo i'd have dumped.. he seems like the type to pay u off if u hit big and he probably won't charge u much for the draw.

Answer: Yeah I think this is debateable, think both dumping and calling is fine here. At the time I just felt like he had me crushed with such a low PFR

You bet smaller with the C-bet with the QQ on the K hi flop.. than you did when you had a good hand an orbit or so earlier.

Answer: I never c-bet the exact same amount, I take factors like drawnness of the flop and just bet. But yeah I think you're right that I tend to c-bet more with better hands, gotta get that out.

I'd raise with the 45o when the guy limps to your BB.. as played I'd bet the turn for value and to protect against a lone diamond.. I never see anyone betting anything less than top pair in these vids.

Answer: what time was this?

[Upgrade_U]

Haven't watched the vid yet but I think it's ok to bet bigger with stronger hands than with air as a c-bet, if they have an ace on a A85r board they're calling you and you can just valuetown your TPTK for more $$

Will be checking the vid soon, hope to see some action

[Tuff Enuff]

Thanks for making another video. I really liked your 1st vid also. Keep'em coming.

P.S. You play pretty well /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[CruS]

more elin avatars please /images/graemlins/heart.gif /images/graemlins/heart.gif /images/graemlins/heart.gif

[RedSoxFan]

Nice video- if I could hit my sets like you do and stack off on people, I'd be a happy dude.

As is- learned a little bit about better card selection from EP and when to bet/check when WA/WB

[xeanatic]

[ QUOTE ]
Nice video- if I could hit my sets like you do and stack off on people, I'd be a happy dude.

As is- learned a little bit about better card selection from EP and when to bet/check when WA/WB

[/ QUOTE ]

yeah stars loved me today

[RedSoxFan]

So late in the video (table 1) you get 88 in LP- maybe BTN. There are a couple of limpers and you raise to $2.50. You get 2 callers and the flop is J high- it's checked to you. You don't cbet because you say that someone likely hit the J. The turn brings your 8 and the rest is history...

...but lets say the turn is Q+ and action is checked to you- do you then bet or are you going to continue to check since you're WA/WB? What is your action if someone bets into you (same with flop)?

...Lets say turn is 2-7,9,10. Whats your action if checked to you? What's your action if bet to you?

This all changes with only 1 caller, right? 1 caller- I cbet like 85% of the time.

[Perk76]

Good vid Xeanatic.....I think you played solid, and obviously hitting hands helps.

A few times throughout the video you hit top pair garbage kicker in limped pots from the bb/sb. You lead each time and had to give up to raises alot. I am curious as to if this is the best play. I tend to c/c the flop and lead the turn in these scenarios if turn bricks especially if its the button thats betting. Doesnt seem like your gonna get alot of value often in these spots.

[Wilpro]

nice vid, more please /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Aceium]

When you flop top pair in a blind battle isn't it profitable to bet your hand? If they raise you, you probably have to dump, but where's the point where you profit from picking up pots that they don't hit and getting out of ones where they do?

[NL Newbie]

Ok im reviewing live(Type as i go).

AK at start is "ok" imo. One of those...whatever hands. Gap concept etc.

14mins in, nothing new yet, all 100% standard.

Oh the KT hand vs 50VPIP guy seems ok, bet for value for sure - C/C isnt as optimal IMO.

15:20 - I bet 1.5 with KJ on 45K board, pretty dry.

16:55 - Cbet/stack off IMO. Uh turn cards meh, nothing bad - I probably call his lead IMO. Value bet is thin, not because he has 5x or 2pair, but because he may not call with anything except 1pair++++. So check behind id say is good. Plus folding to raise blows /images/graemlins/frown.gif


19:07 - No flush ever IMO, id make it 13 cause im a wuss.

"Gotta go to the rest room" *video continues as you pick up a bottle to piss in* /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

20:10 - isnta call, raise blows IMO. You did exactly that so gooot sir.


ok you timed out, fair enough no bottle action. /images/graemlins/laugh.gif


21:08 JTs - Raisy daisy.

21:49 hehe KK again to raise, maybe well get some action! He prob thinks your gunning for him now. Meh no action.


22:11 34o button - No raisy daisy? Its close. Blinds tight so its a raise IMO.

22:31 - Cbet or dont - W/e, tbh Cbet is prob +EV if he calls then chks and doesnt bluff since we bluff out 6outers X% win the other Y% and are ahead the Z% blah blah etc etc.

24:31 - A9o is ok, i start to hate A7 and maybe A8 though.

25:00 - AA i prob make it a bit more, i just raise a tad more OOP.

27:00 - Fold is goot, hes prob got a hand tbh.

27:26 - Fine folding AQs IMO.



30min - LOL @ going up and down the menu but not going to the 4th one down or so for animation /images/graemlins/wink.gif

Your getting some sexy hands with even sexier flops and turns, wow its pretty.

31:24 - I make it like 12 not 14. Maybe im losing value, dunno.

35 QQ - Cbet for sure, man you run nice.

37min - K2 - Check dont bet. Bet turn if it bricks.

You make it 8.5 with a raise with KK, but 7 to a raise with QQ OOP? I believe the raise size was pretty similar also.

43 - 33 hands - Fine so far, turn hit.... Bet again.... Minraise... meh i shove. LOLz, cha ching.


I dont see anything major you play diff to me, or incorrectly(IMO) or w/e.

45:25 - 44, fine.

45:45 - AK Hmm he called again, odd 8x? I dont see it tbh. I reckon Ax, but bet say 16. wow.


49:30 - JJ Call, now bet turn IMO. like $7, good /images/graemlins/smile.gif Ok he folds cool.

50min - AQ - Seems good, but i cbet the AQ.

51 - Lmfao, you run sick. I wanna run like this! Ok raisy daisy. Awesome, id of just raised FWIW. However i cbet with 88 vs everyone since you missed value IMO/can fold a 6 outer. Its close, but cbet IMO.


53:30 - you cbet AQ now IP, not sure what your reasoning is? being in position changes nothing IMO. Flop texture however is a good reason.

54:22 - Calling T9 sucks IMO.


55:10 - Easy raise/stack off. Meh lame turn, your equity is great though so check IMO. Raise a donk, or value bet 17 into $22. Yes easy raise to river bet, Ax calls all day long IMO.

Anyway, pretty good video - we got to see action which is good, preflop is boring obv.

GG - Reply anything you agree/disagree with

[xeanatic]

Redsoxfan:
Yeah I don't c-bet this flop because I got called PF by 2 stationish guys. But have fold to cbet around 50 percent. So I almost never cbet a flop there unless it is very dry with a high card like A,7,2

If the turn comes Q high and it's checked through I'm likely to just check behind. Don't feel like turning my hand in a bluff and don't think I'll get much value from weaker hands there.

If the turn is a card lower than my PP I'm likely to look for one street of value and check behind on the river. If the same low turn comes and it's bet into me I'll call one street, and give up on the river if he bets again and check behind if he checks.

If this pot was just with 1 caller I c-bet here 100% of the time hoping to just take it down, or turn an 8 LOL

Perk 76:
You could also go for check calling or even check raising in spots like that when the button limped pf and is betting prob just with air to take it down.
But I like taking the lead in a hand. Prob just unlucky in this video in those limped pots but normally you get value from 2nd pair etc. Because most people don't put you on an A or K in limped pots. Or they just think their 2nd pair is good. So playing it passive can be good to sometimes if you know villain is bluffy just let him bluff but otherwise bet for value I believe.

Aceium:
I think the answer to perks question answers yours also

[xeanatic]

@NLNEWBIE

15:20 - I bet 1.5 with KJ on 45K board, pretty dry.
Why bet so little?, we want to build a pot with our pretty strong hand

16:55 - Cbet/stack off IMO. Uh turn cards meh, nothing bad - I probably call his lead IMO. Value bet is thin, not because he has 5x or 2pair, but because he may not call with anything except 1pair++++. So check behind id say is good. Plus folding to raise blows
Yeah def stack of on that flop vs this guy, I think I was way ahead or way behind in this situation and calling seems best. I think I should have valuebet the river. Because basicly he said, I'm afraid of the king I'm checking wouldn't he not be afraid if he had 2 pair plus. And I don't think this villian is tricky enough to c/r us on the river. So I think I missed value there but am open to other opinions.

19:07 - No flush ever IMO, id make it 13 cause im a wuss.
Just raise it more you'll lose value by raising that small. My comment about I have to fold to a raise was wrong imo, i'm happy getting it all in there. Mention I first said I don't give him credit for the flush I think if he has one here it's just a cooler and move on.

"Gotta go to the rest room" *video continues as you pick up a bottle to piss in*
Haha lol I saw I flopped a hand and had to play it out, went to the restroom after that so no warm bottle next to me lol


21:08 JTs - Raisy daisy.
Yeah it is but I timed out

21:49 hehe KK again to raise, maybe well get some action! He prob thinks your gunning for him now. Meh no action.
He can read my soul ater I stacked him big time once /images/graemlins/wink.gif

22:11 34o button - No raisy daisy? Its close. Blinds tight so its a raise IMO.
I agree should have raised that up

22:31 - Cbet or dont - W/e, tbh Cbet is prob +EV if he calls then chks and doesnt bluff since we bluff out 6outers X% win the other Y% and are ahead the Z% blah blah etc etc.
I don't like cbetting here, i'll also don't cbet made hands to keep him of track. And I will cbet everytime in position. Feel like cbetting here is not profitable

24:31 - A9o is ok, i start to hate A7 and maybe A8 though.
I like to raise almost any ace most of the time from CO/BTN, think you steal enough blinds to make it profitable if the blinds are tight


25:00 - AA i prob make it a bit more, i just raise a tad more OOP.
I never do this should I start doing it?

27:26 - Fine folding AQs IMO.
I think it's debatable, like someone said we'll prob get paid off big if we hit our flush here. Still thinking about it though, like to hear more thoughts about this one

30min - LOL @ going up and down the menu but not going to the 4th one down or so for animation
haha lol I'm stupid and blind

Your getting some sexy hands with even sexier flops and turns, wow its pretty.

31:24 - I make it like 12 not 14. Maybe im losing value, dunno.
I like betting more on this drawy board

35 QQ - Cbet for sure, man you run nice.
Yeah I need to protect there


37min - K2 - Check dont bet. Bet turn if it bricks.
I really prefer betting here to protect against any flushdraw or to gain value from any J or maybe even QT draw

You make it 8.5 with a raise with KK, but 7 to a raise with QQ OOP? I believe the raise size was pretty similar also.
yeah in that KK hand the guy raised to 2.5 PF and I mostly 3bet 3,5 times his raise so that's why with the KK it was 8.5 and the guy who raised my QQ raised to 2 and I raise that up to 7. It's not hand dependent but depends on the raise size of my opponent.
But I like to 3bet just 3 times if an opponent raises big like $3 as in the first AK hand of the vid than I raise to just $9

43 - 33 hands - Fine so far, turn hit.... Bet again.... Minraise... meh i shove. LOLz, cha ching.
yeah and ship it ty sir LOL

45:45 - AK Hmm he called again, odd 8x? I dont see it tbh. I reckon Ax, but bet say 16. wow.
Really thought he was slowplying an 8 their and got [censored], I think he played this very horrible, prob could bet a little more but just felt he had an 8 and was thinking I had the A

49:30 - JJ Call, now bet turn IMO. like $7, good Ok he folds cool.
Yeah W/A W/B imo

50min - AQ - Seems good, but i cbet the AQ.
Meh don't like cbetting here, guy never folds to cbets and this flop is lickely to hit his range hard, I would cbet more drie flops though

51 - Lmfao, you run sick. I wanna run like this! Ok raisy daisy. Awesome, id of just raised FWIW. However i cbet with 88 vs everyone since you missed value IMO/can fold a 6 outer. Its close, but cbet IMO.
yeah it was sick, I don't like c-betting here into 2 stationish people see my previous post why, but let me know why you want to cbet here might change my opionion

53:30 - you cbet AQ now IP, not sure what your reasoning is? being in position changes nothing IMO. Flop texture however is a good reason.
I can control the hand better that way and feel like it makes it hared for villian to call with bad hands because he's OOP

54:22 - Calling T9 sucks IMO.
I agree

55:10 - Easy raise/stack off. Meh lame turn, your equity is great though so check IMO. Raise a donk, or value bet 17 into $22. Yes easy raise to river bet, Ax calls all day long IMO.
Yeah stockoff is easy got tons of outs, If he betted out big on the river I have a hard time raising I think I would have just called, bad?

Anyway, pretty good video - we got to see action which is good, preflop is boring obv.
Don't think PF is that boring, some might find it helpful

thanks for watching and taking the time to comment

[evil_ronnie]

dude how big is the video? try sendspace.com, it lets you upload up to 350mb.

[xeanatic]

160 MB, i'll give it a shot

[NL Newbie]

[ QUOTE ]
@NLNEWBIE

15:20 - I bet 1.5 with KJ on 45K board, pretty dry.
Why bet so little?, we want to build a pot with our pretty strong hand <font color="red"> I've no idea lmfao. Dunno why i said this, ignore me im a fish </font>

16:55 - Cbet/stack off IMO. Uh turn cards meh, nothing bad - I probably call his lead IMO. Value bet is thin, not because he has 5x or 2pair, but because he may not call with anything except 1pair++++. So check behind id say is good. Plus folding to raise blows
Yeah def stack of on that flop vs this guy, I think I was way ahead or way behind in this situation and calling seems best. I think I should have valuebet the river. Because basicly he said, I'm afraid of the king I'm checking wouldn't he not be afraid if he had 2 pair plus. And I don't think this villian is tricky enough to c/r us on the river. So I think I missed value there but am open to other opinions.<font color="red"> Well thing is, i dunno if your getting called by non2pair hands? K is a scare card for 7x, i guess he has Kx sometimes though. </font>

19:07 - No flush ever IMO, id make it 13 cause im a wuss.
Just raise it more you'll lose value by raising that small. My comment about I have to fold to a raise was wrong imo, i'm happy getting it all in there. Mention I first said I don't give him credit for the flush I think if he has one here it's just a cooler and move on.

"Gotta go to the rest room" *video continues as you pick up a bottle to piss in*
Haha lol I saw I flopped a hand and had to play it out, went to the restroom after that so no warm bottle next to me lol


21:08 JTs - Raisy daisy.
Yeah it is but I timed out

21:49 hehe KK again to raise, maybe well get some action! He prob thinks your gunning for him now. Meh no action.
He can read my soul ater I stacked him big time once /images/graemlins/wink.gif

22:11 34o button - No raisy daisy? Its close. Blinds tight so its a raise IMO.
I agree should have raised that up<font color="red"> Well i dont like 34 very much, i play 45+ normally - but its close if blinds are nits. </font>

22:31 - Cbet or dont - W/e, tbh Cbet is prob +EV if he calls then chks and doesnt bluff since we bluff out 6outers X% win the other Y% and are ahead the Z% blah blah etc etc.
I don't like cbetting here, i'll also don't cbet made hands to keep him of track. And I will cbet everytime in position. Feel like cbetting here is not profitable<font color="red">Well you give the pot away alot to hands that would fold, but your also called alot. Therefore its a trade off, as were OOP i feel a cbet is our only chance so i cbet. </font>

24:31 - A9o is ok, i start to hate A7 and maybe A8 though.
I like to raise almost any ace most of the time from CO/BTN, think you steal enough blinds to make it profitable if the blinds are tight<font color="red">I think stuff like A6o is so weak and so poor i only raise super nit blinds </font>


25:00 - AA i prob make it a bit more, i just raise a tad more OOP.
I never do this should I start doing it?<font color="red"> Well ive seen it being done, i guess it may give us less streets to act in so reduces the positional disadvantage we have. However maybe it folds haves preflop we dont want to fold? I guess theres more merit to a hand like JJ that is tricky post flop. Needs more discussion, not sure theres good enough reasons to apply it, ill look into it. </font>

27:26 - Fine folding AQs IMO.
I think it's debatable, like someone said we'll prob get paid off big if we hit our flush here. Still thinking about it though, like to hear more thoughts about this one<font color="red">I just dislike calling due to being behind/OOP/multiway etc. Reraising is also problematic and we hardly ever hit out flush, im not even sure of the odds but they're pretty poor. </font>

30min - LOL @ going up and down the menu but not going to the 4th one down or so for animation
haha lol I'm stupid and blind

Your getting some sexy hands with even sexier flops and turns, wow its pretty.

31:24 - I make it like 12 not 14. Maybe im losing value, dunno.
I like betting more on this drawy board<font color="red"> I bet more on someting like JT7 2 hearts, but 326 is meh really, but i think your right and im losing value with weaker bets. </font>


35 QQ - Cbet for sure, man you run nice.
Yeah I need to protect there<font color="red"> Without the 2 spades checks ok, or KK on Axx. </font>


37min - K2 - Check dont bet. Bet turn if it bricks.
I really prefer betting here to protect against any flushdraw or to gain value from any J or maybe even QT draw<font color="red"> Reverse implied odds, if called you dunno where your at. If they raise you must fold, you also get little value. Easy check honestly, its WA/WB really, so check the flop and lead out on the turn. If someone bets just fold, tiny pot - No need to fight over pennys. </font>

You make it 8.5 with a raise with KK, but 7 to a raise with QQ OOP? I believe the raise size was pretty similar also.
yeah in that KK hand the guy raised to 2.5 PF and I mostly 3bet 3,5 times his raise so that's why with the KK it was 8.5 and the guy who raised my QQ raised to 2 and I raise that up to 7. It's not hand dependent but depends on the raise size of my opponent.
But I like to 3bet just 3 times if an opponent raises big like $3 as in the first AK hand of the vid than I raise to just $9

43 - 33 hands - Fine so far, turn hit.... Bet again.... Minraise... meh i shove. LOLz, cha ching.
yeah and ship it ty sir LOL

45:45 - AK Hmm he called again, odd 8x? I dont see it tbh. I reckon Ax, but bet say 16. wow.
Really thought he was slowplying an 8 their and got [censored], I think he played this very horrible, prob could bet a little more but just felt he had an 8 and was thinking I had the A<font color="red">yeah calling with JJ is meh, if it was K88 i think his 'float' is fine. Ace hits your range alot </font>

49:30 - JJ Call, now bet turn IMO. like $7, good Ok he folds cool.
Yeah W/A W/B imo

50min - AQ - Seems good, but i cbet the AQ.
Meh don't like cbetting here, guy never folds to cbets and this flop is lickely to hit his range hard, I would cbet more drie flops though

51 - Lmfao, you run sick. I wanna run like this! Ok raisy daisy. Awesome, id of just raised FWIW. However i cbet with 88 vs everyone since you missed value IMO/can fold a 6 outer. Its close, but cbet IMO.
yeah it was sick, I don't like c-betting here into 2 stationish people see my previous post why, but let me know why you want to cbet here might change my opionion

<font color="red">Ah if theyre stations check is fine, if theyre "ok" i cbet. Just to protect from 9/T/Q/K/A also pot is pretty good $7.40. </font>


53:30 - you cbet AQ now IP, not sure what your reasoning is? being in position changes nothing IMO. Flop texture however is a good reason.
I can control the hand better that way and feel like it makes it hared for villian to call with bad hands because he's OOP<font color="red">Ok, you say "Because i flopped 2 overs". I still like cbetting there OOP, he seems "reasonable" - not sure if hesa station though? Obviously bluffing without FE is -EV and a cbet is a bluff alot, or atleast we assume we're behind alot. </font>

54:22 - Calling T9 sucks IMO.
I agree

55:10 - Easy raise/stack off. Meh lame turn, your equity is great though so check IMO. Raise a donk, or value bet 17 into $22. Yes easy raise to river bet, Ax calls all day long IMO.
Yeah stockoff is easy got tons of outs, If he betted out big on the river I have a hard time raising I think I would have just called, bad?<font color="red">Well i think he has Ax alot, so i think we must felt this. KQ too. Higher variance peraps, but we're sooo ahead. its probably something like 60% i guess - ill PokerStoveit later. </font>

Anyway, pretty good video - we got to see action which is good, preflop is boring obv.
Don't think PF is that boring, some might find it helpful<font color="red">Yeah for sure </font>

thanks for watching and taking the time to comment

[/ QUOTE ]

[ICMoney]

I was watching the vid w/ NL(Expert) and echo most of his comments.

I think you played very standard, not tricks, but solid play is the way to go at these limits.

I would have CB a few more times (AQ - over and a GS, for example).

I was impressed with your comments and like how you check the HHs, even if you weren't in the hand.

Thanks and more vids are always welcomed.

[Tuff Enuff]

31:24 - You pick up QQ Raise pre,get called - Bet the flop and get called - bet the turn and he shoves - You dont think he has a set here? Not sure I can call this shove.

My experience at .05-.10 this would be a set like 80% percent of the time. Maybe I am see monsters but could you explain your thought process on this hand?

Thanks

[IJackit]

He's getting like 6-1 odds here.....

Folding would be extremely bad.

Edit - Even if it is 80% that he's got a set...it's a call.

[eMbAh]

Good video, I definitely learned something

[xeanatic]

[ QUOTE ]
31:24 - You pick up QQ Raise pre,get called - Bet the flop and get called - bet the turn and he shoves - You dont think he has a set here? Not sure I can call this shove.

My experience at .05-.10 this would be a set like 80% percent of the time. Maybe I am see monsters but could you explain your thought process on this hand?

Thanks

[/ QUOTE ]

Don't have the video right here right now but I do it from my memory.
I beleive I cbet the flop and villian just called and villian was around a $30 stack PF.
The flop came very drawy connecting cards and flush draw I beleive.When I bet the turn there was no way I was going to fold anymore. Also I don't see this being sets most of the time it's a stupid on pair or draw when the villians are fishy like this one.
Against a normal regular I'm probably folding this turn as played, if I have no strong reads that say not to fold.

[evil_ronnie]

[ QUOTE ]
Good video, I definitely learned something

[/ QUOTE ]

very educational, thanks