had a few bad beats. am i playing too weak?

[Woodsie]

Villian is 29/8/0.7 over 75 hands.

Poker Stars, $0.05/$0.10 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 7 Players
LegoPoker (http://www.legopoker.com)Hand History Converter (http://www.legopoker.com/hh)

MP: $9.90
Hero (CO): $9.60
BTN: $3.80
SB: $11.05
BB: $3.20
UTG: $10.50
UTG+1: $2.55

Pre-Flop: A/images/graemlins/club.gif A/images/graemlins/heart.gif dealt to Hero (CO)
3 folds, <font color="red">Hero raises to $0.30</font>, BTN folds, SB calls $0.25, BB folds

Flop: ($0.70) 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif 2/images/graemlins/spade.gif T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (2 Players)
SB checks, <font color="red">Hero bets $0.40</font>, SB calls $0.40

Turn: ($1.50) 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (2 Players)
SB checks, <font color="red">Hero bets $1.20</font>, <font color="red">SB raises to $2.40</font>, Hero calls $1.20

River: ($6.30) Q/images/graemlins/club.gif (2 Players)
<font color="red">SB bets $7.95 and is All-In</font>, Hero folds

Results: $6.30 Pot ($0.30 Rake)
SB mucked and WON $6 (+$2.90 NET)

[EMc]

Most consider this pretty good.

At this limit however, I dont really think I fold an overpair in this situation and 3 bet shove the turn. You will see TPxk enough IMO.

[well named]

Interesting. I think I need to go through all my hands and investigate these kinds of hands more. I probably fold the river here against a .7 AF villain most of the time, unless I have been playing very aggro against them (which is true enough of the time that I end up getting it in on the turn here about half the time). I feel much better when they check-call 3 streets than when they start min-raising. Against more aggro players I'm always getting it in.

[Woodsie]

thank you for the feedback. maybe i am paying too much attention to pokertracker stats. i didn't think he'd play TPTK that aggressively with an AF of 0.7.

bad beats make you think funny /images/graemlins/frown.gif

[Woodsie]

good point about my play. i forgot to add that my stats were 16/7/1.1.

[thing85]

You need to raise more preflop (in position) and limp less, speaking on your stats overall.

[Milky]

[ QUOTE ]
You need to raise more preflop (in position) and limp less, speaking on your stats overall.

[/ QUOTE ]

Also need to cbet more and I'm guessing get more aggressive with your strong draws (pair+flush/OESD, OESFD, etc). Those stats are too nitty.

[Woodsie]

my cbet % is 100% when it is headsup. i do need to be more aggressive with my draws tho.

[1tripz1]

Cant really be a bad beat if you dont know what he had /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Hand seems way too nitty. my line would be..

Pre flop raise to .40, Flop pot it, turn pot then 3-bet shove.

[Woodsie]

never said it was a bad beat. i had had a few bad beats prior to this hand and thus MAY have played this hand weak.

[well named]

I was going through PT and here's a similar hand I played a few nights ago. My question is, for those who get it in in woodsie's hand, is your play the same here? The board is a bit scarier in this hand since both flush and straight draws came in.

Edit: Villain is 30/15/1.3 over a small sample. He's fairly loose preflop but so far not out of line post-flop.

Poker Stars, $0.05/$0.10 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 6 Players
LegoPoker (http://www.legopoker.com)Hand History Converter (http://www.legopoker.com/hh)

MP: $11.50
Hero (CO): $9.85
BTN: $7.05
SB: $19.75
BB: $12.10
UTG: $11.10

Pre-Flop: K/images/graemlins/club.gif K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif dealt to Hero (CO)
2 folds, <font color="red">Hero raises to $0.40</font>, 2 folds, BB calls $0.30

Flop: ($0.85) 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif 3/images/graemlins/spade.gif J/images/graemlins/heart.gif (2 Players)
BB checks, <font color="red">Hero bets $0.65</font>, BB calls $0.65

Turn: ($2.15) T/images/graemlins/spade.gif (2 Players)
BB checks, <font color="red">Hero bets $1.50</font>, <font color="red">BB raises to $3</font>, Hero calls $1.50

River: ($8.15) 5/images/graemlins/club.gif (2 Players)
<font color="red">BB bets $8.05 and is All-In</font>, Hero ???

[UFGatorGuy]

I stack off there with KK unhappily. Villain looks like he has a flush a lot of the time with that line but I think we're ahead of a 30/15 enough times to make it a profitable call. I don't know, I'm probably just not good enough to let it go.

[finalboarder]

In this hand I am probably folding the river. With those stats I think this is almost always a flush. But for those of you that disagree can you give your reasons? When is this a bluff? I don't villian does this with AJ.

[Woodsie]

maybe i am playing against different people but i have yet to see someone with an AF &lt; 2 go all in with even a decent hand. they always seem to be monsters (and always better than a pair).

If you are villain, are you pushing allin on the river with that board texture even with AA? if not, what do you have to have to push allin there?

PS: please note that the villain in my hand had an AF of 0.7.

[well named]

Yes I realize the villains are different. The lines are basically the same, which is what interested me.

I folded the river, fwiw, that's why I was interested to hear, for those that call in your hand, what they do in mine, and if the play is different why? (Obviously mostly it's different because of board texture but i'm curious what other ways people compare the hands.)

[Woodsie]

oh i am agreeing with you.

i have yet to see anyone give any plausible holding for villain that we beat.

in both of our cases, its not like they were maniacs.

[SDone]

I hate your bet on the flop, .40 into a .70 flop on a very draw heavy board? It's not entirely too far fetched to believe that the villian stayed in with a straight or flush draw that involved a queen, and caught the queen. Well, actually against a player that passive, it might be a bit of a longshot, I'd expect a cc on the river from them if that was the case.
If you had put the pressure on the villian on the flop and the turn, this may have come out easier for you. A min raise from a player like that is kind of scary though.

[hammerva]

If I can piggyback here, what in the villian stats made it look like he had a flush draw based on small sample of hands. Obviously the PF% means nothing in this case. Trying to understand why reading those 3 numbers mean everything here.

[well named]

If you are referring to my hand, there is nothing in the stats that indicates exactly that he had a draw, when he calls the flop I put his range to be various top pair hands, maybe A8, or a draw, mostly flush draws but 79 or 9T are certainly in his range.

By the time we arrive at the river though, his action really diminishes the chances that he has a one pair hand, because of his aggression factor. It's possible he semi-bluffed the turn with AsTx and is bluffing on the river, but i'm not convinced he does this often enough with hands I beat to call. If I had seen him getting out of line with weak hands, or bluff draws a few times I'd be more inclined to get it in by raising the turn.

[Woodsie]

agreed.

[ QUOTE ]
If you are referring to my hand, there is nothing in the stats that indicates exactly that he had a draw, when he calls the flop I put his range to be various top pair hands, maybe A8, or a draw, mostly flush draws but 79 or 9T are certainly in his range.

By the time we arrive at the river though, his action really diminishes the chances that he has a one pair hand, because of his aggression factor. It's possible he semi-bluffed the turn with AsTx and is bluffing on the river, but i'm not convinced he does this often enough with hands I beat to call. If I had seen him getting out of line with weak hands, or bluff draws a few times I'd be more inclined to get it in by raising the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]