NL 50: KK in a big PF pot::: CUSTOM TITLE FROM EMc CONTEST INSIDE

[Maksim]

Hi guys!
First of all I want to assure you that I am not going to complain here. I am seriously want to learn to myself how to play in similar spots.

So, NL50, I have played on this table about 50 hands. Button is a decent player - 22\19\14 on 44 hands, 14 AF is of a little quantity of hands certainly. UTG - very weak player - 75\0\0.7 WTSD - 35, he calls almost every preflop raise, went to SD with garbage.
So, I raised PRFL, BTN 3bets me, his mini RR was suspicious to me, b\c when decent player make such move vs me (20\17\5) OP I`m in most times put him on AA. This is the first remark. Then UTG calls - I was confident he will do it, I make RR againe. I knew that BTN could be on AA, but in this spot what other action I could make? BTN RR again. AA - 100%. OK. UTG lims again. Everyone is AI. Pot ~110 and me to call ~22. I`m calling of course.

Some questions:

1. What is your line here?
2. What is your line vs BTN if UTG folds. So, I raise 2.5 - he RR 6 - UTG folds - RR him 18-19? AI? what if he RR me again? If he calls I am AI on the almost every flop. I always trying to play AA and KK AI preflop. But vs decent players I have noticed that in situation "My raise - RR - my RR - if he makes another RR" - AA 100%. How I can improve in this spots?
May be you can advise me to read some threads. I am reading Anthology now - a great stuff.

Poker Room skin
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.25/$0.50
5 players
Converter (http://www.neildewhurst.com/hand-converter)

Stack sizes:
UTG: $28.25
Hero: $49.20
Button: $53.10
SB: $61.90
BB: $68.40

Pre-flop: (5 players) Hero is CO with K/images/graemlins/heart.gif K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif
UTG calls, <font color="#cc0000">Hero raises to $2.5</font>, <font color="#cc0000">Button raises to $6</font>, 2 folds, UTG calls, <font color="#cc0000">Hero raises to $27.5</font>, <font color="#cc0000">Button raises all-in $47.1</font>, <font color="#cc0000">UTG calls all-in $22.25</font>, <font color="#cc0000">Hero calls all-in $21.7</font>.
Uncalled bets: $20.95 returned to Hero.

Flop: 7/images/graemlins/club.gif 2/images/graemlins/diamond.gif 9/images/graemlins/heart.gif ($-63.7, 0 player + 3 all-in - Main pot: $85.5)


Turn: 9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif ($-63.7, 0 player + 3 all-in - Main pot: $85.5)


River: Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif ($-63.7, 0 player + 3 all-in - Main pot: $85.5)





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[CrustyFace]

I think i could fold to his push here. Most of the time i find myself up against KK or AA against someone who re-re-reraises me all=-in. The best case scenario here is a split, really.

[Maksim]

Does presence of LP player with his AI makes my EV more positive? Can somebody help me in math also here?

[Maksim]

May I get some more comments? It is very important to me. Thanks.

[Gustav]

Everything looks fine. Bet sizing on the 4-bet isn't really a particularly exact science because you're not folding. This is not a spot to consider folding KK preflop. Anything from 20 to just pushing.

I'd probably just push because I think it looks weaker than a carefully sized 4-bet, ymmv. If UTG folds then a smaller 4-bet might be best, but again it very rarely makes a difference.

[willyc]

[ QUOTE ]
I think i could fold to his push here. Most of the time i find myself up against KK or AA against someone who re-re-reraises me all=-in. The best case scenario here is a split, really.

[/ QUOTE ]

Haha, fold after 4-betting more than half your stack? You're getting 4:1 to call now which is good enough even if you're 100% sure someone has aces!

If you're plan is to fold to a shove and call, your 4-bet should be to 16-18 or so.

[monkover]

standard

[Watkins]

[ QUOTE ]
Haha, fold after 4-betting more than half your stack? You're getting 4:1 to call now which is good enough even if you're 100% sure someone has aces!

[/ QUOTE ]

Please explain

[Upgrade_U]

standard, agro villains are capable of playing AK as AA and also smaller pairs like JJ and QQ

I am never folding it

[yegon]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Haha, fold after 4-betting more than half your stack? You're getting 4:1 to call now which is good enough even if you're 100% sure someone has aces!

[/ QUOTE ]

Please explain

[/ QUOTE ]

KK has 18% chance of winning against AA - that's roughly 4 to 1

[yegon]

I folded KK once in my life in a similar situation

FR, action before me limp - raise - reraise - AI

I folded, limper and raiser folded reraiser called with AK, the other guy showed QQ

I'll never fold KK again for under 200xBB pf

[mugatu668]

Hmm, what do you guys think of a smaller 4-bet and folding to a push? Like $18. And if they call than push any non-ace flop. Is this a v exploitable play?

[Upgrade_U]

yeah the ONLY spot where I might fold KK pf is when a fish ( who I have stats for ) limp-reraises me from EP - that line has been aces since I started playing and I really doubt it is going to change any time soon.

[Maksim]

[ QUOTE ]
Hmm, what do you guys think of a smaller 4-bet and folding to a push? Like $18. And if they call than push any non-ace flop. Is this a v exploitable play?

[/ QUOTE ]

And if ace comes on the flop? check\fold?

[yegon]

[ QUOTE ]
yeah the ONLY spot where I might fold KK pf is when a fish ( who I have stats for ) limp-reraises me from EP - that line has been aces since I started playing and I really doubt it is going to change any time soon.

[/ QUOTE ]

fish have been doing this to me with 77+, AQ+ and I played a guy who was so fond of this "move" that he used it 4 times during 200 hands and crowned it with playing this way with QJs from the CO /images/graemlins/smile.gif

I mostly see this play in shorstack tournies. Actually I have yet to see this done with AA/KK at NL50 (18k hands played do far) - guess people are afraid it gets limped all around after them /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Upgrade_U]

As I said, might fold and even then I really doubt I could do it, perhaps if I have a note and a lot of hands on him that would be easier.

[CruS]

very very std
if he has AA 90% of the time you have to call.
if he has AA 100% it's close
nh sir.

[EMc]

I will give a custom title to whomever can give me the sweetest image I can post in KK PF threads.

It must say

DONT EVER FOLD KK PF FOR 100BBs.