I'm in trouble

[mugicha]

The state tax commission has a criminal investigation going on me. They have not told me all of the details, but I have found out that involves offshore gambling. How in the hell did they find out that I am involved in offshore gambling I have no clue at all. This investigator wants me to come in and talk to him and tell him "my side of the story." I live in Utah. This is pretty scary stuff and who knows what's going to happen. I'll let you know unless they throw me in jail before I can.

[JPFisher55]

Get a good tax and criminal law attorney before you meet with any state official.

[mugicha]

thanks for advice. I am trying to find a good one. Hard to find one that specializes in both though. Especially in this podunk state. Can't imagine how my life could suck any more than this. At least if I was going to prison I would know the outcome. The uncertainty of this whole thing is the worst part of it.

[mugicha]

Also, wonder how in the heck they could have this information on me, unless they wire tapped my phones. Pretty curious

[TomVeil]

Disclaimer: I'm not an expert.

First, find a good lawyer, as JPFisher said. Odds are they aren't going to be prosecuting you for gambling online, unless you're running a site or not paying your taxes. Is there anything you're doing that is beyond the norm?

If you go in, and this IS about gambling online, congratulations, you'd be the first that I know of. If that is the case, contact the PPA and other organizations that deal with this sort of thing on a regular basis. My gut feeling is that it's a tax issue, though. And as the 2+2 mantra goes:

PAY YOUR TAXES.

Keep us informed! We're all rooting for you /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[mugicha]

True. But how do they even know I was doing offshore gambling? That's why I was so shocked. This is the State tax commission no less. How in the world are they finding this stuff out?

[TomVeil]

Did you use Neteller? I know that as part of the trouble that they had, they handed over a lot of the financial information.

[KEW]

[ QUOTE ]
True. But how do they even know I was doing offshore gambling? That's why I was so shocked. This is the State tax commission no less. How in the world are they finding this stuff out?

[/ QUOTE ]

How did you get money on to and off of sites??????? What where you gambling on????? Were you a "winner" and if yes how much and over how many years????

There is so much info left out to get a picture of your situation..

[xxThe_Lebowskixx]

you are being charged with tax evasion or offshore gambling?

[DeadMoneyDad]

[ QUOTE ]
The state tax commission has a criminal investigation going on me. They have not told me all of the details, but I have found out that involves offshore gambling. How in the hell did they find out that I am involved in offshore gambling I have no clue at all. This investigator wants me to come in and talk to him and tell him "my side of the story." I live in Utah. This is pretty scary stuff and who knows what's going to happen. I'll let you know unless they throw me in jail before I can.

[/ QUOTE ]

PM me.

I am not a lawyer but I've read the law.

I might be able to help in your defense.


D$D

[whangarei]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The state tax commission has a criminal investigation going on me. They have not told me all of the details, but I have found out that involves offshore gambling. How in the hell did they find out that I am involved in offshore gambling I have no clue at all. This investigator wants me to come in and talk to him and tell him "my side of the story." I live in Utah. This is pretty scary stuff and who knows what's going to happen. I'll let you know unless they throw me in jail before I can.

[/ QUOTE ]

PM me.

I am not a lawyer but I've read the law.

I might be able to help in your defense.


D$D

[/ QUOTE ]

Scary. Please find a real, good lawyer OP and ignore D$D's request.

[DeadMoneyDad]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The state tax commission has a criminal investigation going on me. They have not told me all of the details, but I have found out that involves offshore gambling. How in the hell did they find out that I am involved in offshore gambling I have no clue at all. This investigator wants me to come in and talk to him and tell him "my side of the story." I live in Utah. This is pretty scary stuff and who knows what's going to happen. I'll let you know unless they throw me in jail before I can.

[/ QUOTE ]

PM me.

I am not a lawyer but I've read the law.

I might be able to help in your defense.


D$D

[/ QUOTE ]

Scary. Please find a real, good lawyer OP and ignore D$D's request.

[/ QUOTE ]

Maybe but even 2+2 or any other ancillary poker site might be considered a violator of Utah's codes on gaming.

Read: "76-10-1104. Gambling promotion."

Nothing worse than a state prosecutor and a few words on a piece of paper.



D$D<--just a trolling post whore....

[grapabo]

[ QUOTE ]
The state tax commission has a criminal investigation going on me. They have not told me all of the details, but I have found out that involves offshore gambling. How in the hell did they find out that I am involved in offshore gambling I have no clue at all. This investigator wants me to come in and talk to him and tell him "my side of the story." I live in Utah. This is pretty scary stuff and who knows what's going to happen. I'll let you know unless they throw me in jail before I can.

[/ QUOTE ]

First of all, are you sure this is a criminal investigation about gambling activity, or just an inquiry about unreported income that showed up in your bank account?

I'll join the rest in saying that some local legal counsel would be advisable, but be careful about jumping to conclusions about what the Tax Commission is actually looking for in their investigation. They may just be looking for you to report your income rather than put you in jail.

[Legislurker]

Could it be related to the bust of the guys doing uncoded CC transactions for sportsbooks? Even if you can't find an attorney specializing in this, get a criminal one to talk for you. You should never have any contact at all with anyone unless you are arrested.

[DeadMoneyDad]

[ QUOTE ]
Could it be related to the bust of the guys doing uncoded CC transactions for sportsbooks? Even if you can't find an attorney specializing in this, get a criminal one to talk for you. You should never have any contact at all with anyone unless you are arrested.

[/ QUOTE ]

In the US the only thing you sould volunteer is you lawyer's name. Then ask to speak to him/her them beofre saying another word!!!


D$D<--been arrested quite a few times NEVER convicted!

[Artsemis]

[ QUOTE ]
Scary. Please find a real, good lawyer OP and ignore D$D's request.

[/ QUOTE ]

This would be very stupid to do.

[whangarei]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Scary. Please find a real, good lawyer OP and ignore D$D's request.

[/ QUOTE ]

This would be very stupid to do.

[/ QUOTE ]

Please explain.

[adanthar]

wild guess: this is related to those sportsbooks that were the subject of a criminal investigation in Utah and the checks they sent out.

if that's the case, and taxes haven't been paid, OP *is* in trouble.

[DeadMoneyDad]

[ QUOTE ]
wild guess: this is related to those sportsbooks that were the subject of a criminal investigation in Utah and the checks they sent out.

if that's the case, and taxes haven't been paid, OP *is* in trouble.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah if you're involved in sports betting even my suggestions died a quick death. Poker you have some room.

To be clear before I ever speak to a lawyer I always do as much legal reaseach as I can, this way I don't have to pay for him to educate me on what I can read and understand myself.

I think of myself as a smart guy, but if the cops ask me for anything other than to buy a ticket to the policeman's ball or other ball, I ask if I am under investigation, he he even pauses I ask if I need my lawyer.

The 5th is a way of life.
For some that means in a bottle.


D$D<--loves Maranda

[Quanah Parker]

Was Mugicha sports betting, playing poker, or both?

If he was sports betting he's in worse trouble than poker, correct?
I assume that's because the Wire Act covers sports betting specifically?

[GittyUP]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
True. But how do they even know I was doing offshore gambling? That's why I was so shocked. This is the State tax commission no less. How in the world are they finding this stuff out?

[/ QUOTE ]

How did you get money on to and off of sites??????? What where you gambling on????? Were you a "winner" and if yes how much and over how many years????

There is so much info left out to get a picture of your situation..

[/ QUOTE ]

This is from the tax commission not the FBI so your most likely not in any criminal trouble outside of tax evasion. Like the previous post states I would ask yourself how much have I won? Lost? Over how long? Am I involved in any other cash income business other then poker that I haven't reported? Neteller?
Most likely you owe taxes that you haven't paid and will owe money and penalties.

[Skallagrim]

YOU MUST TALK TO YOUR OWN (UTAH) LAWYER. NO IFS ABOUT IT.

You would be a fool to disclose enough information on here to let anyone give you real advice, even if that advice could be trusted.

As the inquiry comes from a tax department, that is a clue as to what they think you did. Since you say "criminal" in your OP you are probably looking at tax evasion charges of some kind. Not good, but not the end of the world.

The wire act does not make a criminal out of the bettor, only the one running the operation. Illegal gambling (other than as an operator of a gamblng business), even if they charge you with it in Utah, is hardly a major offense.

Dont panic. Hire a lawyer and have the lawyer contact the investigators. If you hear from the investigators first, tell them you would like to cooperate, but not until you have obtained legal counsel first - they must respect that. Maybe its best for you to talk, maybe not, only your own lawyer can advise you on that.

Any other advice you get on here, ignore.

Skallagrim

[-DJM-]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The state tax commission has a criminal investigation going on me. They have not told me all of the details, but I have found out that involves offshore gambling. How in the hell did they find out that I am involved in offshore gambling I have no clue at all. This investigator wants me to come in and talk to him and tell him "my side of the story." I live in Utah. This is pretty scary stuff and who knows what's going to happen. I'll let you know unless they throw me in jail before I can.

[/ QUOTE ]

PM me.

I am not a lawyer but I've read the law.

I might be able to help in your defense.


D$D

[/ QUOTE ]

No, but I did stay in a Holiday Inn. Sorry I could not resist.

[MiltonFriedman]

Get yourself a criminal attorney where you live, NOW. If you can find one who handles criminal state tax matters, that is preferable. Do NOT go to that interview without legal counsel.

"I have found out that involves offshore gambling". How ? What else did YOU tell them already ?

Now, how and what could they know ?

1. They likely are fishing a bit from the tax side. They have two possible sources of information about financial transactions.

a. Most likely, you used a credit card at some online gambling site which was processed through a company that was indicted in Salt Lake City. along with BetUS. That would yield deposits information, which is a lot different than any "win" information. It is possibly, though less likely, given that you are in Utah, that this traces back to Neteller. My gut feeling is that it is related, if anything, to the BetUS indictments.

b. Someone who knows you ratted you out.

2. Ask your legal counsel what your legal obligations are for this interview. Did they ask you for records ? Is there a subpoena served ? You need to know what your rights are, really.

(I am going back on hiatus, good luck.)

[omgwtf]

I live in Utah, and I can give you some suggestions I hope will be helpful.

As stated by another poster above, this is probably related to the bust earlier this year of a handful of people who were helping get funds to/from offshore gaming sites. They most likely have your name from some list they seized... and nothing more. Until you talk to them, that is.

I've had a lot of dealings with the Utah State Tax Commission, and they're a lot worse than the IRS. Anything you say will be printed on a baseball bat, which will then be used to break your legs. You should never speak to anyone there, all communication should go through your lawyer. They're counting on you to screw up, which you will do if you do any of your own talking.

Seriously, get a lawyer and don't talk to the state. Not a single word.

[Artsemis]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The state tax commission has a criminal investigation going on me. They have not told me all of the details, but I have found out that involves offshore gambling. How in the hell did they find out that I am involved in offshore gambling I have no clue at all. This investigator wants me to come in and talk to him and tell him "my side of the story." I live in Utah. This is pretty scary stuff and who knows what's going to happen. I'll let you know unless they throw me in jail before I can.

[/ QUOTE ]

PM me.

I am not a lawyer but I've read the law.

I might be able to help in your defense.


D$D

[/ QUOTE ]

Scary. Please find a real, good lawyer OP and ignore D$D's request.

[/ QUOTE ]

Explanation: Free advice is good and D$D has proven himself to be knowledgeable in law here.

[Adebisi]

Don't go talk to any of these investigators voluntarily. Nothing good can come of it. If they have enough on you on to charge you, you're not going talk your way out of it (outside of becomming an informant of some sort). If they don't have enough to charge you, you don't want to give them any additional information whatsoever. Whether they have enough to charge you with something or not, they're going to play it like they do (even if you have a lawyer with you).

Tell the investigator that the only place you'll be telling "your side of the story" is in a court, so they can either charge you if they have one, or subpoena you for grand jury testimony. Otherwise, you have absolutely nothing to say to them about any matter whatsoever. This should ward them off if they're just fishing, and if you do have a real problem, you'll learn it's true extent more clearly and quickly.

Don't go in there and let them play their games with you. Interrogation is a major part of these peoples' jobs, and they'll lie to you, exagerate things, and basically play any trick they can think of to get you to incriminate yourself and cooperate with their investigation.

Only deal with them in a courtroom setting where they are legally required to be honest and can't pull their usual bullsht.

[Todd Terry]

I was a criminal defense attorney in Manhattan for 8 years before deciding to play poker full time earlier this year. You definitely need to get an attorney, and do not speak to anyone else other than an attorney about the situation, period. Certainly don't send emails or PMs.

This is a directory of criminal defense lawyers in Utah who are members of the National Association of Criminal Defense Lawyers ["NACDL"]:

http://www.nacdl.org/publicdirectory.nsf...p;SearchOrder=4 (http://www.nacdl.org/publicdirectory.nsf/Copy%20of%20$Directory?SearchView&Query=FIELD+Stat e=UT&SearchOrder=4)

The only one I know by reputation is Fred Metos, I think he's regarded as one of the best in Utah, I'm sure he's extremely expensive.

If you want to talk to me about it (which would be covered by attorney/client privilege), send me a PM.

[DeadMoneyDad]

[ QUOTE ]


If you want to talk to me about it (which would be covered by attorney/client privilege), send me a PM.

[/ QUOTE ]

What he said!!!

I can't offer the same deal, all I had was a few novel defense strategies to run past your lawyer, there is a really top notch poker lawyer who used to be the regional DOJ guy who now works for a top notch private firm, but he's $500 an hour if you can get him on the phone.

Hire local representation and then if you need it add to your "dream team", and if the talent is needed I can provide his phone number in a PM.

I have no idea how much you might be on the hook for, or if it is even worth a call to a $500 an hour lawyer.

But don't mess with taxes, that's what got Capone....


As my 12 y.o. daughter says "good luck with that....."



D$D

[Skallagrim]

I am a practicing criminal defense lawyer with 22 years experience who has tried hundreds of cases ranging from speeding to murder. I am not a lawyer in Utah. I would not give you specific advice and you should accept none from here EXCEPT TO GET A LAWYER IN UTAH! Beleive me, knowing the local players and customs is key in situations like yours. The only other worthwhile bit of advice here is the link to NACDL (I am a member), if you otherwise dont know who to call.

Skallagrim

OK, maybe D$D's guy is a good call too, if you can afford him.

Dont do anything till you have a lawyer. Period.

[Bill Haywood]

[ QUOTE ]
how do they even know I was doing offshore gambling?

[/ QUOTE ]

Is someone who knows you angry about something?

"Hear your side of it" could just be bait, or reflect that someone was telling stories about you.

[Adebisi]

I have no clue how stuff runs in Utah, but if you have any friends or relatives that have strong political connections, you should definately call them, and tell them the state tax commission might be coming after you. Even if they can't/won't make it go away, they can probably remove any extra fervor the investigators might have regarding jamming you up. If whoever's investigating you knows you have powerful friends, their future career aspirations will likely influence just how hard they push this thing.

It's definately good to have a lawyer if you actually have to talk to the gov't, but it might be detrimental to get one too early if you did actually commit a crime. If you have to make up a story to manufacture reasonable doubt in a criminal proceeding, that's not something a lawyer can be involved in, or even know about. A lawyer can not and will not put you on the witness stand if he knows you are going to lie.

It would be best if you knew exactly what kind of evidence they have against you before you say a word about this to anyone, even your own lawyer. The only reliable way to get the truth out of them about what kind of evidence they have is to make them present it in court.

If paying for a lawyer is an issue for you, wait until they arrest or subpoena you to get one. I think it would be waste of money to pay for a lawyer if they don't have enough evidence to do anything to you (there's a decent chance this is the case, because if they really had anything on you, they'd arrest you rather than ask you to come in for a chat).

If cost is not really an issue, then by all means, get a lawyer now. Just don't tell him anything that you may want to say differently about later on. You should let the lawyer know that you basically just want him to run interference for you with the investgators until you find out exactly what evidence they have against you that will be admissable in court. If you did whatever they are accusing you of, it is best not to say a word about anything until you know exactly what evidence they have. If this means keeping your mouth glued shut until after the prosecution has put on its case in a trial, so be it. If you feel you're best play is to lie, you do not want to give the cops months and months to dig around and poke holes and your story, gather contradictory evidence, etc.

The criminal justice system in this country only works because of the stupidity of criminals. It is ridiculously hard to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that someone commited a criminal act with the requisite state of mind if the accussed doesn't offer a word of explanation until after the prosecution has already put on it's case.

People get convicted because they get locked into a story before they know exactly what evidence is out there against them.

[707782]

you're in Utah, one of the extreme white, religion dominated state that think their the best, and their moral is above all.

you're winning a ton, but are not paying tax.

But I feel like there's much more to your story, you're either criminal for being something else or a bookie.

[707782]

ok, now, admitted your mistakes, otherwise, no one can help you.

[frommagio]

[ QUOTE ]
you're in Utah, one of the extreme white, religion dominated state that think their the best, and their moral is above all.

you're winning a ton, but are not paying tax.

But I feel like there's much more to your story, you're either criminal for being something else or a bookie.

[/ QUOTE ]

707, do you realize that your entire community paid property taxes so that you could have a decent K-12 education? That's a lot of sweat equity from a lot of fine folks, all invested in you.

How can you let them down so badly?

[707782]

All you guys listen up:

From the information he provided, he stated that he's getting investigated because of online gambling, but thousands if not millions of people bet online every single day, how come he's the only one that gets in trouble. Betting online is not illegal.

So he's probably doing something that's big that has caught the attention, he might win bigs, and don't report the tax, but shouldn't the Fed get him first? He might be running a bookie business, he might be a agent, he might be one of the guy that deals transaction for people with online betting co.


Please tell us more about you first.

[707782]

[ QUOTE ]
True. But how do they even know I was doing offshore gambling? That's why I was so shocked. This is the State tax commission no less. How in the world are they finding this stuff out?

[/ QUOTE ]

If you're only doing online gambling, you have nothing to worry about, but obviously, you're not.

[Adebisi]

[ QUOTE ]
ok, now, admitted your mistakes, otherwise, no one can help you.

[/ QUOTE ]

What are you, a gramatically challenged cop?

[Berge20]

Alright--locking the thread.

Use the advice given and get yourself a Utah lawyer.