[20NL] - AJ UTG, not cbeting is my mistake?

[maciczka]

Villain is 32/9/3.71 and check-raised and floated my cbet very often.

Prima Poker skin
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.10/$0.20
6 players
Converter (http://www.neildewhurst.com/hand-converter)

Stack sizes:
Hero: $27.73
UTG+1: $35.95
CO: $20.81
Button: $8.27
SB: $17.22
BB: $19.90

Pre-flop: (6 players) Hero is UTG with A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif
<font color="#cc0000">Hero raises to $0.8</font>, 3 folds, SB calls, BB folds.

Flop: 5/images/graemlins/club.gif T/images/graemlins/club.gif K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif ($1.8, 2 players)
SB checks, Hero checks.

Turn: 3/images/graemlins/heart.gif ($1.8, 2 players)
<font color="#cc0000">SB bets $1.8</font>, Hero ...

[corsakh]

Cbetting here is a leak.

[Nemesis69]

[ QUOTE ]
Cbetting here is a leak.

[/ QUOTE ]

Explain your self. HU I cbet 95% of the time.

[corsakh]

Your hand has showdown value
Your hand wants a free card
This board against this type of player does not get folds anywhere often enough

[ragip]

[ QUOTE ]
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Cbetting here is a leak.

[/ QUOTE ]

Explain your self. HU I cbet 95% of the time.

[/ QUOTE ]

I would cbet here too. Do you think Kx, Tx is too big a part of his range to make this profitable?

[corsakh]

Its not just the T and K. Its also flush and straight draws. This guy calls on a gutshot.

[kroeliewoelie]

I agree with corsakh, this flop sucks: you have only 3 clean outs. Take the free card. You cannot stand any heat, which you will very likely get from villain if you bet. On the turn you are given a good reason to fold, so make the fold. (Unless you feel lucky)

[Perk76]

I continuation bet in this spot, I would rather take the free card on the turn. Most likely your CB will be 3/4 pot or so, and if you check this flop, villans will lead more on the turn than your CB would have been.

[hallo!]

If the Hud on your villains has a 90 % fold to continuation bet than i think a cbet is fine.

Here, this does not seem to be the case, so i check, reconsider on turn and fold to his bet. I think its fine, wait for a better spot.

[maciczka]

calls cbet 40%, raises 30%. that what my hud says.

[kroeliewoelie]

[ QUOTE ]
I continuation bet in this spot, I would rather take the free card on the turn. Most likely your CB will be 3/4 pot or so, and if you check this flop, villans will lead more on the turn than your CB would have been.

[/ QUOTE ]

I am puzzled by your response. It sounds like you feel that you have to put money in this pot postflop. I don't think you have a lot of fold equity (you overestimate it IMO) and you don't have a lot of pot equity, so putting NO money in on either the flop or the turn (unless it's one of the 3 good queens) is better.

[CruS]

[ QUOTE ]
Its not just the T and K. Its also flush and straight draws. This guy calls on a gutshot.

[/ QUOTE ]

Your hand beats a flushdraw and a gutshot, you want these hands to call.

[Parvex]

What is our turn action, if we do not improve and villain bets?
What do we do, if we hit our J?

[maciczka]

Fold, and when improved we lead or raise his bet. Am I correct?

[Perk76]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I continuation bet in this spot, I would rather take the free card on the turn. Most likely your CB will be 3/4 pot or so, and if you check this flop, villans will lead more on the turn than your CB would have been.

[/ QUOTE ]

I am puzzled by your response. It sounds like you feel that you have to put money in this pot postflop. I don't think you have a lot of fold equity (you overestimate it IMO) and you don't have a lot of pot equity, so putting NO money in on either the flop or the turn (unless it's one of the 3 good queens) is better.

[/ QUOTE ]

There is not a problem continuation betting in this spot. You are heads up and have position. Keep pounding on your villan, especially someone that is aggressive and liable to over play a hand. If this villan gets frisky with you, you can let it go this time. You will get action from him on hands when you hit in the future. It costs villan alot to make a play at you, and if he starts to feel he can make plays at you lighter, so be it.

I also didnt mention anything about fold equity. Just because the villan floats alot and possibly check raises alot does not mean that you cant CB against him. This particular board will have a higher success rate than lower/mid cards due to 2 broadway cards on this flop, which can hit your hand range pretty hard. IMO, your better off CB'ing this board rather than a middle range card board. If you check, you basically are giving up the hand, and flush cards can hit which would kill your value, or make it hard to extract value if you hit your gutshot/top pair/or two pair by the river.

I am not checking and giving up on this hand when you still can have the best hand, you have a draw to a better hand, and you have position. I am surprised people dont CB here.

[Pokey]

[ QUOTE ]
calls cbet 40%, raises 30%. that what my hud says.

[/ QUOTE ]

Good lord. I'm assuming this is a solid read? If so you probably have no business raising AJs UTG. If you've got that kind of maniac you don't want to be playing speculative and easily dominated hands -- you want a hand where you'll know for certain where you are on the flop. A hand like AKo will hit TPTK about 1/3rd of the time, and with that you'll be happy to go to war. With AJs you're going to flop TP3K or TPTK with scare cards or even an underpair, and your war could be frightening.

There's no sin in open-limping if the table conditions are right. Against this guy I'm probably going to want to see many speculative hands but I'm going to be folding the vast majority of them on the flop. When I connect, I'm going to extract mucho value from this guy.

[maciczka]

Hmm Pokey so considering Your last sentences:
a) I shouldn't even play that against a maniac
b) No hit - no cbet here
right?

[corsakh]

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Its not just the T and K. Its also flush and straight draws. This guy calls on a gutshot.

[/ QUOTE ]

Your hand beats a flushdraw and a gutshot, you want these hands to call.

[/ QUOTE ]

Think again.

[iRunBad123]

ya i would c bet. id c bet 75% of the time

[ama0330]

This thread belongs to Corsakh.

[iheartponeez]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
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Its not just the T and K. Its also flush and straight draws. This guy calls on a gutshot.

[/ QUOTE ]

Your hand beats a flushdraw and a gutshot, you want these hands to call.

[/ QUOTE ]

Think again.

[/ QUOTE ]

Is the reason why you don't want those hands calling because your hand is weak enough that if he decides to play his draw aggressively you need to fold, and because he has outs while you don't?

Intuitively I agree that I don't want to c-bet into people drawing, but I'm trying to suss out why I feel that way. Am I getting the point here?

[TheChad]

I cbet a lot, but here I'm cbetting like 50%ish or less. 95%??!?!?!?! See Pokey's reply. My gosh. Against a maniac, I'd rather c/r any real hand.

[corsakh]

AJ's equity is behind a flush draw on this board. With a K on the board and a terrible texture and an aggro opponent we are entering a world of pain putting money into this pot without a hand.

[iheartponeez]

[ QUOTE ]
AJ's equity is behind a flush draw on this board. With a K on the board and a terrible texture and an aggro opponent we are entering a world of pain putting money into this pot without a hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

Word. The outs comment was my way of phrasing the equity difference, but you're hitting it more to the root. I'm feeling good about my handle on this one.

Thanks.