KK in 3 bet pot against solid tag - NL$50 6m [Archive]

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AZplaya

10-14-2007, 11:37 PM

Villian in this hand is baba-joon, one of the more solid tags at NL$50 on FTP imo. Have him at 20/16, he's very aggro, good hand reader, etc. He should have me at 23/17ish, not sure of his other reads on me.

Full Tilt Poker, $0.25/$0.50 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 6 Players
LegoPoker (http://www.legopoker.com)Hand History Converter (http://www.legopoker.com/hh)

BB: $41.55
UTG: $61.25
Hero (MP): $56.50
CO: $66.35
BTN: $55.70
SB: $50.25

Pre-Flop: K/images/graemlins/spade.gif K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif dealt to Hero (MP)
UTG raises to $1.75, Hero raises to $6, 4 folds, UTG calls $4.25

Flop: ($12.75) Q/images/graemlins/club.gif 4/images/graemlins/club.gif J/images/graemlins/heart.gif (2 Players)
UTG checks, Hero bets $8.50, UTG calls $8.50

Turn: ($29.75) 2/images/graemlins/heart.gif (2 Players)
UTG checks, Hero???

I almost always check behind against a solid player here, but my concerns are:
1. The pot is already huge.
2. He likely puts me to a decision for my stack on any river if I check behind.

Whats your line? If you check behind, do you call a big bet on a blank river?

whyzze

10-14-2007, 11:40 PM

ive seen him do some pretty bad stuff.

Anyways, I would check behind here. i think he would shove the flop with any draw.

You are right about the river. Do you think he is shoving this river w/ 99/1010? He is capable.

corsakh

10-14-2007, 11:40 PM

He cant be flatting a set on this board. On the other hand you beat nothing other than AcKc, but I think he would shove that /images/graemlins/smile.gif Can he call with clubs oop?

absoludicrous

10-14-2007, 11:46 PM

What would he check/call you with that smokes you, especially on a double /images/graemlins/club.gif flop? I think you're fine here.

Villain never slowplays a hand that beats us here, I feel I'm ahead enough to pot commit myself with a turn bet.

whyzzee, why would anyone shove the river with 99/TT unless they're a complete idiot?

kaz2107

10-14-2007, 11:47 PM

bet turn for protection here. and to avoid an almost impossible river descion. his range is really big imo and we r obv ahead of it. not the type of board u should b lookin to eek out more value from against a decent player. bet the turn and take down this nice pot most of the time

PS
u wanna just ship tha 50 bones now?!?!!??! /images/graemlins/wink.gif

http://images.minorleagueball.com/images/admin/rockies2.JPG

whyzze

10-14-2007, 11:51 PM

[ QUOTE ]
What would he check/call you with that smokes you, especially on a double /images/graemlins/club.gif flop? I think you're fine here.

You're essentially pot committing yourself here with any regular sized bet, which is why I check, just in case he did flat call with a set or two pair.

whyzzee, why would anyone shove the river with 99/TT unless they're a complete idiot?

[/ QUOTE ]

I think he could as a valuebluff.

Anyways, if the answer is he never does, then we can check here and fold to a riverbet. Or if he checks river, get some value.

corsakh

10-14-2007, 11:53 PM

No such thing as valuebluff exists.

whyzze

10-14-2007, 11:56 PM

[ QUOTE ]
No such thing as valuebluff exists.

[/ QUOTE ]

theory wise, no...But it happens. I could post a hand where this villian attempts to do it. But i dont want to out myself /images/graemlins/frown.gif

absoludicrous

10-14-2007, 11:59 PM

How many of you have ever valuebluffed in a situation like this? I can honestly say valuebluff isn't even in my bag of tricks. I just don't think you run into enough opponents at microstakes to make this profitable. Who folds an over pair here to your shove? No one.

Am I bad?

whyzze

10-15-2007, 12:00 AM

AZplaya

10-15-2007, 12:09 AM

[ QUOTE ]
How many of you have ever valuebluffed in a situation like this? I can honestly say valuebluff isn't even in my bag of tricks. I just don't think you run into enough opponents at microstakes to make this profitable. Who folds an over pair here to your shove? No one.

Am I bad?

[/ QUOTE ]
from my experience this villian makes more moves than most 50 playes, probably why whyzze has seen him do some retarded stuff. He is a petty good hand reader though, so if I check behind he will know I'm not in love with my hand and that I will probably puke if he shoves teh river. I def think he's capable of shoving the river with 99/1010, but I'm not sure he calls a flop bet in a 3 bet pot with 2 overs on the board from me though.

absoludicrous

10-15-2007, 12:14 AM

I just bet the turn here, and take any play away from him. You're obv not folding the river if he calls or pushes over your turn bet.

orange

10-15-2007, 01:02 AM

bet for value. also, the term 'valuebluff' is highly unapplicable here...you never get a better hand to fold.

absoludicrous

10-15-2007, 01:20 AM

[ QUOTE ]
bet for value. also, the term 'valuebluff' is highly unapplicable here...you never get a better hand to fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

lol, that's what I'm questioning.

greggg230

10-15-2007, 01:24 AM

I am so confused.

Why would you ever, ever, ever check behind here?

I would keep betting and expect to be shown AQ, KQ, or a club draw almost everytime.

AZplaya

10-15-2007, 12:57 PM

results:
I checked behind and spiked a king on the river. He shoved and I double fist-pumped snap called and stacked his AA. Thoughts on villian's line with AA here?

traz

10-15-2007, 01:10 PM

I don't think his range is exclusive to sets, but alot of you seriously underestimate the amount of people who would cc a set on the flop.

And there's really not even anything that wrong with it

kolotoure

10-15-2007, 01:54 PM

[ QUOTE ]
results:
I checked behind and spiked a king on the river. He shoved and I double fist-pumped snap called and stacked his AA. Thoughts on villian's line with AA here?

[/ QUOTE ]

If I call AA pf here it is with the intention of check/jamming almost all flops

absoludicrous

10-15-2007, 02:20 PM

That's a very weird line for him to take with AA. Nothing you'd expect from an agg 20/16. Very tricky.

ryang

10-15-2007, 03:00 PM

baba-joon always gets his AA stacked cause he plays it like [censored]

absoludicrous

10-15-2007, 03:22 PM

Yeah, this is clearly an awful way to play AA.

AZplaya

10-15-2007, 03:51 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Yeah, this is clearly an awful way to play AA

[/ QUOTE ]
ya this hand made me re-evaluate my read on him. Forgot to mention the river was the king of clubs. He butchered this hand so bad and in so many ways.

PayoffWiz

10-15-2007, 06:01 PM

His AA line is flat out terrible. His river shove is beyond atrocious, not to mention the rest of his play in the hand.

And from the 160 hands or so I have on him, his overall play is flat out terrible.

absoludicrous

10-15-2007, 06:05 PM

[ QUOTE ]
His AA line is flat out terrible. His river shove is beyond atrocious, not to mention the rest of his play in the hand.

And from the 160 hands or so I have on him, his overall play is flat out terrible.

[/ QUOTE ]

Maybe he should stop 7 tabling.

PayoffWiz

10-15-2007, 06:15 PM

Maybe?

Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (5 handed) Full Tilt (http://www.flopturnriver.com/reviews/Online-Poker-FullTilt.php#converter) Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (http://www.flopturnriver.com) (Format: 2+2 Forums)

saw flop|saw showdown

Hero ($52.20)
SB ($66.50)
BB ($81.60)
UTG ($50)
MP ($35.60)

Preflop: Hero is Button with 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, T/images/graemlins/club.gif.
UTG raises to $1.75, MP raises to $3, 2 folds, BB calls $2.50, UTG calls $1.25.

Flop: ($9.25) K/images/graemlins/club.gif, K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 3/images/graemlins/heart.gif (3 players)
BB checks, UTG checks, MP checks.

Turn: ($9.25) 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif (3 players)
BB checks, UTG bets $6, MP folds, BB calls $6.

River: ($21.25) 7/images/graemlins/spade.gif (2 players)
BB bets $10.5, UTG raises to $25, BB calls $14.50.

Final Pot: $71.25

Results in white below: 
BaBa has 8s 8h (two pair, kings and eights).
UTG has Kh Ac (three of a kind, kings).
Outcome: UTG wins $71.25.