Stars 50NL - Aces c/rd on a nasty board, interesting . . .

[toddxlogan]

Hi All-

Thought this one was pretty interesting. I think my actions on every street (save preflop) are pretty debatable (bad? my initial reaction was that i butchered it, but looking at it more and more I can't really decide), and i'm very interested to hear some other thoughts on the hand.

I'll post my thoughts once some responses get going; don't want to bias responses yet. FWIW, over 60 hands, villain is 28/18/(5/na/na). Table is nitty though so I think that just means he doesn't totally ignore table conditions. At the time I think i'm running somewhat similarly to him pf, maybe 25/20 or something, but have shown down a couple decent hands for a couple decent pots and also got caught with my hand in the cookie jar once on a failed double barrel. Alas, I digress . . .

Poker Stars, $0.25/$0.50 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 6 Players
LegoPoker (http://www.legopoker.com)Hand History Converter (http://www.legopoker.com/hh)

Hero (CO): $79.65
BTN: $43.20
SB: $19.10
BB: $58.55
UTG: $24.10
MP: $53.30

Pre-Flop: A/images/graemlins/club.gif A/images/graemlins/heart.gif dealt to Hero (CO)
UTG calls $0.50, MP calls $0.50, <font color="red">Hero raises to $3</font>, 4 folds, MP calls $2.50

Flop: ($7.25) 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif 4/images/graemlins/club.gif 5/images/graemlins/club.gif (2 Players)
MP checks, <font color="red">Hero bets $4.50</font>, <font color="red">MP raises to $12</font>, Hero calls $7.50

Turn: ($31.25) 6/images/graemlins/club.gif (2 Players)
<font color="red">MP bets $15</font>, Hero calls $15

River: ($61.25) 5/images/graemlins/heart.gif (2 Players)
<font color="red">MP bets $23.30 and is All-In</font>, Hero folds

Results: $61.25 Pot ($2.95 Rake)
MP mucked and WON $58.30 (+$28.30 NET)

Let me know what you think.

Todd

[mugatu668]

bet more on flop.

[iheartponeez]

I think you could make a case for shoving the flop (also, you need to bet much closer to pot size on such a wet board), since it's a drawy board and you're probably ahead just barely, but once the turn hits...well, every draw came in at once. Time to fold.

[toddxlogan]

[ QUOTE ]
I think you could make a case for shoving the flop (also, you need to bet much closer to pot size on such a wet board), since it's a drawy board and you're probably ahead just barely, but once the turn hits...well, every draw came in at once. Time to fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

You notice I have the Ac, right?

[toddxlogan]

[ QUOTE ]
bet more on flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ok. Pretend I bet what, $1 more on flop. Maybe $1.50 if we are full potting but i basically never fullpot c-bet, so meh, that would stick out strangely. Regardless, that means his c-bet is approx. $2 bigger probably. Now what?

[ajml]

I think I would probably shove the flop and make him pay for any draw there. If i called the flop here, which I would do sometimes, I think the turn would have to be a fold.

[iheartponeez]

[ QUOTE ]

You notice I have the Ac, right?

[/ QUOTE ]

I didn't. In that case I think pushing the flop might be an okay plan. Betting more on the flop makes the raise more, which makes it easier for you to commit all-in while you're ahead.

I don't know if shoving is really the best line, so I'd want to hear other opinions.

[toddxlogan]

[ QUOTE ]
I think I would probably shove the flop and make him pay for any draw there. If i called the flop here, which I would do sometimes, I think the turn would have to be a fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, I I think a flop shove is probably the more optimal play, but I just can't make up my mind for sure. The problem is that at best i'm hoping to be 50/50 if he calls, and most of the time, or at least a lot of the time, I am absolutely slaughtered. So the plan with the hand was to flat call, hope for a turn brick, and evaluate his action from there, when his semibluffing (?) hand has considerably less equity. Might have been a bad plan, meh.

Anyhow, once I get to the turn, its far from a brick...its like, the opposite. Buuuut now I pick up the nut club redraw, and I felt at this point like hes probably paying off. Also, his bet is less than halfpot, which is interesting. Scared? Couldnt tell. But made me want to see a showdown a little more. Retrospectively speaking, his play is consistent with a middling club flush that had a pair/straight draw on the flop, which almost makes me wonder if a TURN shove might not have been terrible.... my play looks exactly like AcKc up to that point, he didn't seem like a showdown monkey, and I wouldn't need too much FE for that to be a profitable play.... Hmm. Interesting.

Obviously cant call river shove, dont think. He cant play a 1pair hand like this...... I think.

Ahhh...this game....

[geekylucas]

Thinking about villains action PF (limp-call) - what types of hands she would do this with.

I presume only speculative hands. Small suited connectors and pocket pairs?

I suspect villain wanted to see the flop cheap and then check-raised us when they flopped big. 2 pair or a set on the flop, no?

[Tempel]

Since both turn &amp; river are horrible cards for you given his re-raise on flop you should fold turn here.

33,44,55,66,77,88, about any low sc and 2 clubs beat you here. all of them could easily fit into the limp-calling range pf.

As for the FS youre getting 1:3 going to the river, and you'll make your flush about 1:4.. so thats not good enough.

Fold flop is to weak though, i dont hate the call, but i think i prefer to shove here to make him pay if he has a draw. fist of all i think you have to almost pot here since the board is so coordinated..

Then as played, i think i'd fold turn since 6c completes every draw out there.

[xeanatic]

** grunch ** I would shove the flop here even if we do have the A of clubs there are still a lot of combo draws he could be doing this with.

as played I fold the turn most of the draws got there and some combo draws now have 2 pair as well

[baker2g]

just calling the flop is so terrible..hes never slowing down on any turn even if he has a draw..push or fold

[kroeliewoelie]

I would seriously reconsider the size of your cbet. I would bet close to pot with this hand on this board. (I mean bet close to pot with good hands on wet flops).

[slush420]

eh.. dollar more c/bet on the flop is pretty irrelevant as I think he would raise anyways with an AF that high. If a blank turn comes I'm shoving or at least committing if checked to, but as played it's def a fold as his set or draw are now likely ahead.