Playing pocket AA on a paired board

[lanyi]

I got the dream starting hand and am wondering if I slowplayed a bit too much. Preflop made a modest raise and also checked the turn (hoping to induce a bet). Was this wrong? Should I have played more agressively? And finally on the river? Do I call? Am I beat?

Ultimate Bet No-Limit Hold'em, $.25 BB (9 handed) Hand History Converter Tool (http://poker-tools.flopturnriver.com/Hand-Converter.php) from FlopTurnRiver.com (http://www.flopturnriver.com) (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Button ($24.24)
SB ($22.79)
BB ($10.92)
Hero ($54.79)
UTG+1 ($20.54)
MP1 ($25.73)
MP2 ($9.58)
MP3 ($27.10)
CO ($4.26)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, A/images/graemlins/club.gif.
<font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $0.5</font>, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, MP3 calls $0.50, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Button calls $0.50, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>.

Flop: ($1.85) T/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 8/images/graemlins/club.gif, T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $1.85</font>, MP3 folds, Button calls $1.85.

Turn: ($5.55) 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, Button checks.

River: ($5.55) 5/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $5.55</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Button raises to $11.1</font>, Hero?

[LiveNow]

Pot preflop, bet turn, call river i guess....

[iheartponeez]

You have to raise more preflop, and don't slowplay aces.

As played, call river. I think a better line would have been:

Preflop: Raise to 1
Flop: Bet 3/4's pot
Turn: Bet 2/3's-3/4's pot
River: Check/call a reasonable bet.

[oneeyejak]

I would have raised to 3.5 or 4 BB PF. But if 2x is your standard bring in, then that is what you probably should have bet.

I like the pot size bet on the flop.

I think you should have made a bet on the turn as well, at least 3/4 pot size. It's possible he holds a hand like 55 that he would have laid down to a turn bet

I don't think villian has a hand like A10 or any 10 for that matter. I think if he did, he would have either raised the flop or bet the turn. The only way I can see him playing the way he did with a 10 is if he holds 10 10.

In any event, I'd call. If he can beat your aces, fine. On the positive side, you will see his cards and have a read on him for future reference.

[yegon]

there is a lot of draws on board after the turn card, you have to try to extract value from villain if he is drawing while you can - he will not call your bets on the river if he misses

Villain can raise river for value (which would be strange based on hos passivness on previous streets) but because you showed weakness on the turn he can also raise with 8x, J9, JJ, missed draws etc. You have to call with the odds you are getting.

[eof]

wow.. i think this is a 10 almost always. often T9, JT, maybe QJ

It's either a bluff or a hand that beats you, he isn't raising for value with anything worse here almost ever.

i like a c/c river as played, though i like b/f turn better.

[iheartponeez]

On the line I suggested above, I forgot to add, if you meet resistance on the turn you fold.

[yegon]

[ QUOTE ]
wow.. i think this is a 10 almost always. often T9, JT, maybe QJ

It's either a bluff or a hand that beats you, he isn't raising for value with anything worse here almost ever.

i like a c/c river as played, though i like b/f turn better.

[/ QUOTE ]

yes b/f turn is best

but what if villain just calls the turn bet? c/c river? That would be more profitable from villain's perspective than raising our turn bet. Or do we c/f if our turn bet gets called? Strange hand /images/graemlins/smile.gif

as played do you think villain would really check behind with a T on the turn? Seems strange to me. There's no question we have to call river but I'd be interested in what he really had.

Results?

[whyherro]

People love slowplaying a T on this board, fold to river raise.

[willyc]

You really have to raise 4x BB preflop. Raising more preflop:

1. Gives you more information when you get a call or a re-raise, allowing you to narrow the ranges of the other people in the pot. A lot of people will call with marginal hands or trash for a min raise just to see if they can flop a strong draw or a monster.

2. Gets more money in the pot - which is where you want it. If people are going to call you with trash hoping to flop something then charge them for it. You're not getting more money out of them after they whiff with 75o.

3. Isolates. If you raise min you might reasonable expect to get five calls. If that happens then you're not even a favorite to win.

[yegon]

[ QUOTE ]
People love slowplaying a T on this board, fold to river raise.

[/ QUOTE ]

we are getting 4 to 1 so we need to win 20% of the time and we seriously underreped our hand. I think the odds of this being 8x, JJ or a busted draw warrant a call. I mean this is not a T 100% of the time, I'm not sure if it's a T less than 80% of the time but I think it might be.

[creamfillin]

Make a standard raise PF
Don't pot it on a paired board. It narrows your opponents calling range. I like the turn check. Bet fold this river for around 2/3rds pot.

[yegon]

[ QUOTE ]
I like the turn check.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why? For pot control? Trying to checkraise? Getting value from possible villain's weaker hands on the river? What range do you put him on? No draws in there?

[creamfillin]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I like the turn check.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why? For pot control? Trying to checkraise? Getting value from possible villain's weaker hands on the river? What range do you put him on? No draws in there?

[/ QUOTE ]

Most of the hands we beat 22-99, 8x are probably folding to a turn bet. I think they're more likely to call a river bet if the turn checks through. He could have picked up some weird backdoor but I'm not really worried about that. I want to get value from small pairs, or 8x, and minimize the pot size in case he has a ten.

[yegon]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I like the turn check.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why? For pot control? Trying to checkraise? Getting value from possible villain's weaker hands on the river? What range do you put him on? No draws in there?

[/ QUOTE ]

Most of the hands we beat 22-99, 8x are probably folding to a turn bet. I think they're more likely to call a river bet if the turn checks through. He could have picked up some weird backdoor but I'm not really worried about that. I want to get value from small pairs, or 8x, and minimize the pot size in case he has a ten.

[/ QUOTE ]

the PPs we beat on the turn are 22-77 and I do not see them calling any bet on the river

so the only hand we are getting value from is 8x provided no overcard hits on the river. I think the odds of getting value from 8x now are about the same as the combined odds that a card lower than 8 comes and villain calls a bet on the river

So to me it seems like we are checking to get value from exactly 1 hand without significantly improving our chances to get called by it on the river and giving up on getting value from all the draws like J9, 78, 79, 77 and FDs

[creamfillin]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I like the turn check.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why? For pot control? Trying to checkraise? Getting value from possible villain's weaker hands on the river? What range do you put him on? No draws in there?

[/ QUOTE ]

Most of the hands we beat 22-99, 8x are probably folding to a turn bet. I think they're more likely to call a river bet if the turn checks through. He could have picked up some weird backdoor but I'm not really worried about that. I want to get value from small pairs, or 8x, and minimize the pot size in case he has a ten.

[/ QUOTE ]

the PPs we beat on the turn are 22-77 and I do not see them calling any bet on the river


[/ QUOTE ]

I do. Villain's love wantonly betting/calling rivers after the turn checks through esp. with tiny pairs. Even if an overcard falls.

[lanyi]

The results:

I called the reraise and the villain held pocket tens. Lucky SOB flopped quads and was slowplaying after the flop.

In retrospect I'm guessing with pocket tens if I had been more agressive with my preflop raise he would have folded. Any agression after that would have been more money down the drain. But in hindsight were all brilliant!

[You're No Daisy]

This is a 6-max forum. You should have posted this in the Full Ring forum.

Never minraise with AA. I hope your intent wasn't to minraise AA hoping to keep people in the hand. That's just asking to lose money. You want to raise and get heads up with someone playing KK-99 who can't let it go unimproved, or a calling station who hit bottom pair or has a draw and takes it to the bank and misses.

As played, raise preflop to $1.00, bet 3/4 of the pot on the flop, and 2/3 of the pot on the turn. On the river I'd check/call or maybe even bet 1/2 the pot.

[oneeyejak]

[ QUOTE ]


oneeyejak:

I don't think villian has a hand like A10 or any 10 for that matter. I think if he did, he would have either raised the flop or bet the turn. The only way I can see him playing the way he did with a 10 is if he holds 10 10.

[/ QUOTE ]

/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Even a blind squirrel finds an acorn every once in awhile.

[lanyi]

Excellent read indeed /images/graemlins/smile.gif

And considering I gave zero statistics makes it even better.

[ICMoney]

PF is gross.

You have no idea where you are with that many people seeing a flop.

River is pretty gross too.
Don't think bottom pair calls a full psb.

You need to be good about 20-25% and I'd say it's prob around that.

If I call I'm not excited about it.

Maybe bet around 3-3.5 on river next time.