50nl KK vs very agressive player [Archive] - Two Plus Two Newer Archives

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prodonkey

10-14-2007, 10:40 AM

Villain is 36/16/9.5 over 160 hands.. so very agressive, but he limps the CO on this hand..wtf??

Had just sat down at the table maybe 1 orbit earlier and hadn't played a hand that I recall, maybe stole the blinds once.

Should I just re-raise the flop and hope to get it in there? I figured this was a WA/WB situation.. so I'd just let him bet, then pretty much the worst 2 cards in the deck roll off on the turn and river for me.

Full Tilt Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (6 handed) Hand History converter (http://www.learnhowtoplaypokerfree.com/convert/convert.cgi) Courtesy of PokerZion.com (http://PokerZion.com)

MP ($58.10)
CO ($85.95)
Hero ($49)
SB ($50.25)
BB ($57.20)
UTG ($99.60)

Preflop: Hero is Button with K/images/graemlins/heart.gif, K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
2 folds, CO calls $0.50, Hero raises to $2.5, 2 folds, CO calls $2.

Flop: ($5.75) 5/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 5/images/graemlins/club.gif, Q/images/graemlins/club.gif (2 players)
CO checks, Hero bets $3, CO raises to $7, Hero calls $4.

Turn: ($19.75) 4/images/graemlins/club.gif (2 players)
CO bets $9, Hero calls $9.

River: ($37.75) Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif (2 players)
CO bets $16, Hero ????

danny8

10-14-2007, 10:44 AM

since hes v.agro and pretty loose i'd just repop him on the flop and get it in now. hes going broke with a FD a Q for sure, maybe even an ui mid pp that thinks your FOS... if he has a 5 oh well. i think if you get ai on the flop you're getting the best of it vs his range

yntm3

10-14-2007, 10:47 AM

Hmm he's checked raised us so it doesn't look like he is going anywhere, although he is very aggressive so his strength is not genuine. I either try and get it now with a raise to about $22 OR call and shove his bet on a non-club turn. The second play is a little riskier for obvious reasons but I like this play a lot.

As played I call the turn and fold the river.

bozzer

10-14-2007, 10:52 AM

on the turn i like a shove - we have enough equity to valuebet and to protect vs a 4th club. you'll run into clubs maybe 30-40% of the time?

bazooka87

10-14-2007, 10:55 AM

I like repopping flop to $20 or so, call a shove obviously. I really don't think you can get it in on the turn or river, and as played I'd just fold river

willyc

10-14-2007, 10:58 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I like repopping flop to $20 or so, call a shove obviously. I really don't think you can get it in on the turn or river, and as played I'd just fold river

[/ QUOTE ]

icheckcallu

10-14-2007, 11:01 AM

4 bet shove flop.

prodonkey

10-14-2007, 11:37 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I like repopping flop to $20 or so, call a shove obviously. I really don't think you can get it in on the turn or river, and as played I'd just fold river

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree with this line, I should have rereaised the flop.. I run into this spot a lot vs the maniacal people where you're crushing them most likely and I try to get their stacks, then so many scare cards come I don't know what to do.

I folded the river.. he showed me 9 high.

choccypie

10-14-2007, 12:30 PM

I'd 4bet him on the flop, which allows for shoving on the turn (if it doesn't bring an ace)

Ender Wiggin

10-14-2007, 12:56 PM

IMO river bet sizing looks a lot like a blocker/value bet coming from Qx a lot.

GSykes

10-14-2007, 01:01 PM

fold river as played

if played again 4bet the flop

Chomp

10-14-2007, 01:10 PM

I worry about a flop 4b shove. We fold a lot of crappy Q's and pp's which this villain will keep betting if we flat. We also get totally owned by a random 5 or slowplayed AA/QQ. We kinda let villain play perfectly.

The only hand that the 4b shove is really good against is the FD, but I think a FD is a significantly smaller part of his preflop range than Qx/pp.

So I don't think I mind it as played - you are value calling I suppose.

River stinks, not sure if it's a fold.

terrible

10-14-2007, 01:14 PM

this is not a wa/wb situation on the flop.

Chomp

10-14-2007, 01:37 PM

[ QUOTE ]
this is not a wa/wb situation on the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

PSA: One Line Answers (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Board=microplnl&Number=12149681 &Searchpage=1&Main=12133839&Words=PSA&topic=&Searc h=true#Post12149681)

LiveNow

10-14-2007, 01:42 PM

LiveNow

10-14-2007, 01:43 PM

oh, and 3bet flop, he probably gets it in with draws, tptk etc.

iRunBad123

10-14-2007, 01:55 PM

i fold this now but u should of got this all in on the flop

Nick Royale

10-14-2007, 01:56 PM

Bet bigger on the flop. 3-bet flop after you get raised.

prodonkey

10-14-2007, 02:15 PM

[ QUOTE ]
this is not a wa/wb situation on the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

How is it not? He could have a 5, he is loose and agressive, and open limped the CO.. Maybe he has a Q or a smaller pocket pair, maybe he has air, maybe he has a flush draw.

LiveNow

10-14-2007, 02:18 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
this is not a wa/wb situation on the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

How is it not? He could have a 5, he is loose and agressive, and open limped the CO.. Maybe he has a Q or a smaller pocket pair, maybe he has air, maybe he has a flush draw.

[/ QUOTE ]
you just answered your own Q

Chomp

10-14-2007, 02:30 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
this is not a wa/wb situation on the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

How is it not? He could have a 5, he is loose and agressive, and open limped the CO.. Maybe he has a Q or a smaller pocket pair, maybe he has air, maybe he has a flush draw.

[/ QUOTE ]
you just answered your own Q

[/ QUOTE ]

By my reckoning, we are WA/WB every single one of those hands except the FD.

WA: PP's have 2 outs, Qx has 2 outs, air has no outs.

WB: If he has 5x, QQ or AA, we have 2 outs.

tarheeljks

10-14-2007, 02:45 PM

[ QUOTE ]
WA: PP's have 2 outs, Qx has 2 outs, air has no outs.

WB: If he has 5x, QQ or AA, we have 2 outs.

[/ QUOTE ]

really no need to include QQ/AA.

there is almost always the potential of being wa/wb on a given board. no need for pot control-- we are wa much more often than wb here, esp against this player. unlikely that he is folding to a 3bet on this flop whether if it is w/ Qx, or clubs; sucks for us if he has like 75s or something.

Chomp

10-14-2007, 03:03 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
WA: PP's have 2 outs, Qx has 2 outs, air has no outs.

WB: If he has 5x, QQ or AA, we have 2 outs.

[/ QUOTE ]

really no need to include QQ/AA.

there is almost always the potential of being wa/wb on a given board. no need for pot control-- we are wa much more often than wb here, esp against this player. unlikely that he is folding to a 3bet on this flop whether if it is w/ Qx, or clubs; sucks for us if he has like 75s or something.

[/ QUOTE ]

You are right about the AA/QQ now that I think about it. Very small parts of his range here probably.

But if he has Qx or a small pp, why risk losing him with a 3b shove? This line from this type of aggro villain is pretty common with a weak pp or Qx and I think he folds most of those hands to our push - AQ, KQ and JQ might call, but probably not many more hands than that, and probably even those hands fold sometimes (villain might be aggro, but I don't think we know that he's a moron).

I think the thing that is confusing me here is that if we put his range at {small PPs, Qx, 5x, air, FD's}, how big is the FD in that range? Surely pretty small.

And shouldn't we consider that villain's equity plunges on the turn with a FD, so that might be a better place to make him pay?

Edit: Actually, AQ and KQ probably aren't that big in his range here either given preflop.

tarheeljks

10-14-2007, 03:34 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I think the thing that is confusing me here is that if we put his range at {small PPs, Qx, 5x, air, FD's}, how big is the FD in that range? Surely pretty small.

[/ QUOTE ]

w/stats of 36/15 he can have plenty of fd's. i imagine his limp calling range has plenty of suited connectors (maybe some suited trash). not that he never c/r's w/a low pp here, but he's more likely doing it w/a draw.

bozzer

10-14-2007, 04:49 PM

<--- what does your location mean tarheel?

bozzer

10-14-2007, 04:51 PM

what is this talk of 4betting the flop???? we have been raised, so we can 3bet.

i think getting it ai on the flop is likely to be messy.

takingcontrol

10-14-2007, 05:13 PM

[ QUOTE ]
How is it not? He could have a 5, he is loose and agressive, and open limped the CO.. Maybe he has a Q or a smaller pocket pair, maybe he has air, maybe he has a flush draw.

[/ QUOTE ]
I think you answered your own question

terrible

10-14-2007, 07:09 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
this is not a wa/wb situation on the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

PSA: One Line Answers (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Board=microplnl&Number=12149681 &Searchpage=1&Main=12133839&Words=PSA&topic=&Searc h=true#Post12149681)

[/ QUOTE ]

PSA: One Line Answers (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Board=microplnl&Number=12149681 &Searchpage=1&Main=12133839&Words=PSA&topic=&Searc h=true#Post12149681)

Numfar

10-14-2007, 07:09 PM

This would be wa/wb if the 5c was a h or d. As it is, he could literally have any two clubs so 3 bet the Flop. He'll probably push his draw and any decent queen (along with a 5 of course). As played, I would call the Turn and pray that he checks the River. He doesn't so fold.

Chomp

10-14-2007, 08:32 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
this is not a wa/wb situation on the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

PSA: One Line Answers (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Board=microplnl&Number=12149681 &Searchpage=1&Main=12133839&Words=PSA&topic=&Searc h=true#Post12149681)

[/ QUOTE ]

PSA: One Line Answers (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Board=microplnl&Number=12149681 &Searchpage=1&Main=12133839&Words=PSA&topic=&Searc h=true#Post12149681)

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, great job.

You probably think this is a really clever reply. But it's not. It is the reply of a 6 year old. It is the most obvious, most tedious, most unoriginal reply you could possibly have posted.

So why don't you fkk off to BBV if you want to fill up your pathetic nerd life with internet smart-assness?

This is a poker thread about poker hands - [censored] offf and waste your tedious [censored] somewhere else and leave this place to people who want to talk about poker. Fking moron.

Boring

Tedious

Unfunny

k

n

u t

terrible

10-15-2007, 07:04 AM

firstly, why target my post when most in the thread are one line answers? that's not only this thread but most of the forum. i figured since op knows what wa/wb is he'll read the post and then consider it and either agree or disagree. it's obvious what i was getting at and he even explained it himself in his reply.

secondly, how am i the one with the pathetic nerd life when you're sat there going into cardiac arrest because of a deliberately babyish facetious post on an internet forum? get a sense of perspective.

i gave my opinion on the poker hand. i'm sorry you need embarrassingly longwinded explanations in order to understand something a child could. why don't YOU [censored] off and waste your high blood pressure rants on somebody who gives a [censored]. you're the one who started this nonsense, you'd probably be able to see that if your head wasn't stuck so far up your arse.

ama0330

10-15-2007, 08:03 AM

LOCK'D