How do you not tilt

[oneeyejak]

Ok. I probably should have reraised PF to avoid this mess but the original raiser was making ridiculous raises every other hand and I was hoping to be heads up and hit him after the flop.

How can I play this any different? Other than reraise PF? How do you not tilt after something like this?

CO shows KQ and takes the pot.

Absolute Poker
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.25/$0.50
6 players
Converter (http://www.neildewhurst.com/hand-converter)

Stack sizes:
UTG: $95
UTG+1: $20
CO: $40
Button: $66.90
Hero: $48.45
BB: $24.45

Pre-flop: (6 players) Hero is SB with K/images/graemlins/heart.gif K/images/graemlins/spade.gif
UTG folds, UTG+1 calls, CO (poster) checks, <font color="#cc0000">Button raises to $8.5</font>, Hero calls, 2 folds, CO calls.

Flop: J/images/graemlins/club.gif 3/images/graemlins/diamond.gif T/images/graemlins/heart.gif ($26.5, 3 players)
<font color="#cc0000">Hero bets $18</font>, CO calls, Button calls.

Turn: 4/images/graemlins/club.gif ($80.5, 3 players)
<font color="#cc0000">Hero is all-in $21.95</font>, <font color="#cc0000">CO calls all-in $13.5</font>, Button folds.
Uncalled bets: $8.45 returned to Hero.

River: 9/images/graemlins/heart.gif ($107.5, 0 player + 2 all-in - Main pot: $107.5)


Results:
Final pot: $107.5 <font color="red"> </font> <font color="red"> </font>

[RichAM]

yes ... u should have reraised on the flop but the call is ok to disguise your hand ... thats what you were doing right?

ok, now that you have your hand disguised why did u donk on the flop, that is just dumb, you should have c/r ai or called and c/r ai on turn

you can't tilt b/c you played bad, can you?

[greggg230]

Villain played hand fine... do you expect him to fold on the turn with two overcards and an open-ended straight draw, getting 5:1?

Why didn't you re-raise pre-flop?

[greggg230]

[ QUOTE ]
yes ... u should have reraised on the flop but the call is ok to disguise your hand ... thats what you were doing right?

ok, now that you have your hand disguised why did u donk on the flop, that is just dumb, you should have c/r ai or called and c/r ai on turn


[/ QUOTE ]

No offense, but neither of these pieces of advice are good. Flat-calling on that flop is atrocious, as is flat-calling pre-flop. We're playing against micro donks, not Phil Ivey. Don't get fancy.

[oneeyejak]

[ QUOTE ]
you can't tilt b/c you played bad, can you?

[/ QUOTE ]

No. Thats why I posted. To see if I played bad.

[castigar]

Did he really raise 16 bb PF?

[oneeyejak]

[ QUOTE ]
No offense, but neither of these pieces of advice are good. Flat-calling on that flop is atrocious, as is flat-calling pre-flop. We're playing against micro donks, not Phil Ivey. Don't get fancy.

[/ QUOTE ]

You're right. Maybe tilt is the wrong word. I think its more being pissed at myself for not rereising PF.

[ QUOTE ]
Villain played hand fine... do you expect him to fold on the turn with two overcards and an open-ended straight draw, getting 5:1?

[/ QUOTE ]

I didn't say that the villian played the hand bad. I do question him calling my flop bet. Maybe my bet was a little light. At any rate, he got lucky and I let him get there.

[oneeyejak]

[ QUOTE ]
Why didn't you re-raise pre-flop?

[/ QUOTE ]

Like I said, this guy had been making the ridiculousy huge PF raises every other hand. I thought I saw a good chance to disguise my hand. I was hoping he would catch a piece of the flop and give away his chips. I will reraise in that situiaton 90% of the time.

[Ranma4703]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Why didn't you re-raise pre-flop?

[/ QUOTE ]

Like I said, this guy had been making the ridiculousy huge PF raises every other hand. I thought I saw a good chance to disguise my hand. I was hoping he would catch a piece of the flop and give away his chips. I will reraise in that situiaton 90% of the time.

[/ QUOTE ]

Against these kind of opponents, you start reraising a wide range. Someone was raising to 10bb every hand at a table I was at, so I started limp/reraising any kind of decent hand - TT, AJo, etc. 80% of the time he called then folded to a cbet.

[jerryf1914]

i'm guessing he probably had j3 which is brutal. i think just calling him pf is good but then you should have CRAI'd him on the flop

[kaz2107]

how not to tilt...
1. play shorter sessions
2. play less tables.
3. when u lose 2 or 3 buy ins quit
4. have some [censored] discipline
5. run good
6. ???
7. profit

[choccypie]

Reraise preflop and lead out on the flop. As played though, check raise on all in on the flop. If CO is someone who'll call you to the end with OESD, you want to charge him as much as possible.

[oneeyejak]

[ QUOTE ]
If CO is someone who'll call you to the end with OESD, you want to charge him as much as possible.

[/ QUOTE ]

I hadn't played enough hands with CO to know how he played. I think that was one of my problems with this hand. I expected to be heads up against a maniac I had reads on and when I wasn't, it through me for a bit of a loop.

At these stakes, its been my experience that someone is not going to put that much money into the pot PF with a KQ. So, I had a real hard time putting him on an OESD. I thought QQ AK or possibly AA or JJ.

I was also thinking it could be AJ. But I guess in any event, I probably should have gotten all of my chips in on the flop. Again though, since I had a hard time putting CO on KQ, I didn't view the board as very scary unless he held AA or JJ in which case I was already behind and would have gone broke anyway.

Just like PF, the flop didn't go as expected either. I didn't expect two callers to a 2/3 pot size bet. But, in this instance, if I was going to get all of my money in anyway, I should have done it right there rather than make a 2/3 pot size bet .....I guess.

[Ender Wiggin]

just shove pre dude.. CRAI on the flop

[eMbAh]

By realising this is totally standard and happens 30 times a day

[ICMoney]

FWIW, I don't like the donk bet.

If he puts that much money in the pot pf, he'll cb, even into two people.

I CR ai on flop.

[GSykes]

[ QUOTE ]
By realising this is totally standard and happens 30 times a day

[/ QUOTE ]

[Chomp]

I really, really hate the advice to re-pop pre.

OP's read is that villain is doing this a lot with crap - KQ on this occasion, 22+ on others, SC's on others, Ax on others and so forth - so why do we want to give him the chance to get away?

It's much, much better IMO to call pre when you have this read, then get it in as fast as possible post - probably crai, but I guess it depends on reads - and own KQ/22+/Ax/whatever.

[oneeyejak]

The more I read responses and reflect on the hand, the more I think my play PF was correct. I think Chomp is right. I didn't want the BTN to get away from the hand so easily. I knew he was a maniac, I was to his left, and had been patiently waiting for a hand to make a play at him with.

I think the mistake in the hand was probably to not get all my money in on the flop.

Given the same circumstances, I think I would play PF the same way. The majority of the time, I end up heads up as I hoped against a maniac who I had been waiting to isolate.

Had I ended up heads up, I think the best play on the flop would probably have been to CRAI.

As it stands, I'm not sure about a CRAI against the two opponents. I think a lead out bet may have been my best bet on the flop, but I should have led AI rather than the 2/3 pot size bet. I might be wrong on that point though.

[whyherro]

I'm wondering what the problem is, you got all the dollars in as more than a 50% favorite. PF is probably kind of questionable but I think is a pretty decent move at times because it disguises your hand well, as long as u are willing to risk the flop going multiway.

[scallop]

Havent read all the responces... so sorry If this is repeat reading.

PF is superstandard imo. Even if he is making crazy pf raises he might not calls pushes. CO is obviously retarded to call pf.

When he does I think u jyust push every flop.

[prodonkey]

I min reraise him preflop, and open shove any flop.

[ama0330]

[ QUOTE ]
I min reraise him preflop, and open shove any flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

in order to quickly and efficiently get him to fold the worst hand... =/


call preflop, then check the flop, and probably raise all in. if he checks behind, bet the turn. why you would donkbet like you did is a mystery because you want him to think he is beating you, so he'll voluntarily put more money in. donkbetting just scares him off.

i like a flop crai

[K䲰䮥n]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
you can't tilt b/c you played bad, can you?

[/ QUOTE ]

No. Thats why I posted. To see if I played bad.

[/ QUOTE ]

lol this cracked me up.

[oneeyejak]

[ QUOTE ]
call preflop, then check the flop, and probably raise all in. if he checks behind, bet the turn. why you would donkbet like you did is a mystery because you want him to think he is beating you, so he'll voluntarily put more money in. donkbetting just scares him off.

[/ QUOTE ]

We aren't talking about "him" we are talking about them. The reason I "donkbet" is because I have two opponents. If it was just "him" a CRAI would have been the right move. Mayabe it would have been with two opponents as well. I don't know about that and would be curious to get some insight on that play against two as opposed to one opponent.

I do know that I'd rather not get any more insight from someone like you who feels that his game is so elevated that he can call someone who makes a debatable play a donkey.

Maybe some day I'll be lucky enough to reach your level of expertise so I can belittle players who are learning and want help with their game.

Thank you. Your advise is thoroughly ignored.

[prodonkey]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I min reraise him preflop, and open shove any flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

in order to quickly and efficiently get him to fold the worst hand... =/


call preflop, then check the flop, and probably raise all in. if he checks behind, bet the turn. why you would donkbet like you did is a mystery because you want him to think he is beating you, so he'll voluntarily put more money in. donkbetting just scares him off.

i like a flop crai

[/ QUOTE ]

He's not raising 8.50 preflop and then folding to a min raise.

[Rafpig]

Oneeyejak, instead of taking such an offense , why don´t you try to learn what the term "donk bet" means? It was not something personal...

[oneeyejak]

[ QUOTE ]
Oneeyejak, instead of taking such an offense , why don´t you try to learn what the term "donk bet" means? It was not something personal...

[/ QUOTE ]

You're right. Sorry ama0330. I'm an idiot. Had a bad night and jumped to the wrong conclusion about a term that I wasn't familiar with.

Wish I could delete that post.

Lesson learned.

[Chomp]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Oneeyejak, instead of taking such an offense , why don´t you try to learn what the term "donk bet" means? It was not something personal...

[/ QUOTE ]

You're right. Sorry ama0330. I'm an idiot. Had a bad night and jumped to the wrong conclusion about a term that I wasn't familiar with.

Wish I could delete that post.

Lesson learned.

[/ QUOTE ]


lol, don't worry about it - beating up on noobs is the only fun us microstakes losers ever have.

Besides, Ama is a fish - rumour has it that he doesn't even play poker anymore.

[ZingZhang]

Grunch- In more general advice, playing heads up has really done wonders for any tilt issues I might have had.. You're too focussed on the next decision to stew for one thing /images/graemlins/wink.gif

Also helps with loads of other poker based stuff..head-reading, knowing when to c-bet, value bet and the like lol /images/graemlins/cool.gif