25NL I go insane and attempt a triple barrel bluff

[Khaos4k]

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool (http://poker-tools.flopturnriver.com/Hand-Converter.php) from FlopTurnRiver.com (http://www.flopturnriver.com) (Format: 2+2 Forums)

CO ($24.65)
Button ($27)
Hero ($34.55)
BB ($53.75)
UTG ($31.30)
MP ($26.70)

Preflop: Hero is SB with A/images/graemlins/spade.gif, Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
<font color="#CC3333">UTG raises to $1</font>, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, Hero calls $0.90, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>.

Flop: ($2.25) 5/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 6/images/graemlins/club.gif, 4/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $1.5</font>, UTG calls $1.50.

Turn: ($5.25) 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $4</font>, UTG calls $4.

River: ($13.25) 2/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $8</font>

Final Pot: $13.25

I put villain on an over pair or a flush draw. Is my line believable, and will it get him to fold?

Edit: Villain is 36/12/5 over about 60 hands.

[Dr_Doctr]

Any reads? Against your average 25NLer I'd say this is heavily -EV. There is no way he is folding an overpair and it certainly looks like that's what he has. A flush draw is possible but not likely enough to make your line profitable imho. There are few good spots to triple-barrel at these stakes and this isn't one of them.

[n4rf]

If it's an overpair, it depends on whether he will call down bets with that overpair. I personally don't think he would lay down an OP here, the bet is too small. Obviusly if it's a flush draw, he would lay this down but it's honestly too hard to tell. He did raise UTG, so if his stats aren't that of a maniac, I assume he has a decent hand. And if you still plan on bluffing maybe make the bet a little bigger on the river, like $10 or $11, really put pressure on him if you think he's capable of laying down an OP. Though that's totally player dependant, and stats would help.

Not the best spot to triple barrel, sometimes you gotta know when to shutdown.

[rrrorrim]

Is he a tricky player? Is he the type to raise UTG with air and cbet if senses weakness? Then he might have something like 97o or some other low cards - which, unfortunately, probably gave him a draw or paired him (This explains the odd combination of UTG raise and postflop calling).

Does he value bet and get married to his hands? (Do you?) He may have something like AT or AKs - but much more likely AKs because it's much harder for "married" players to get rid of than AT. Be careful here.. could be you're dominated.

Is he better than the average fish and does he have a healthy respect for suited connectors? That's a dangerous flop. If he's showing even moderate interest in the hand, it means he has something. A pair, straight draw, flush draw... You have a lot of ways to get screwed, and only a couple ways to win.

Etc.




PS: I think 2p2ers should post previous villain actions along with their hand history. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Dr_Doctr]

No offence rrrorrim but I think most of your post is irrelevant. Be careful because he could be dominated??

[rrrorrim]

None taken. /images/graemlins/smile.gif I was just approaching a few of the different possibilities.

In the event that the villain had overcards - entirely possible, considering our own hero was in the same situation - the villain probably had better overcards. Because villain probably would not be calling those kinds of bets with AQo. But if he had AKs... a premium hand... it would be hard to get rid of.

Did that answer your question? (What was your question anyway? Be clearer when asking me something.)

/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Dr_Doctr]

I meant that the fact the Villian could concievably have AK is irrelevant to the hand. Neither of them hit. The Villian is not going to call 3 barrels with overcards. This isn't limit. Even the donkiest donks in donkonia don't do that. So him having AK is the same as him having 72o effectively. Therefore there is no reason to think about him having AK and being dominated is meaningless. If you were playing this hand and were thinking about him having AK you would be wasting time you could be using thinking about the relevant issues. These are, as I see them, that this is 25NL, the Villian is unknown, he raised UTG, the flop ragged and he calls the flop and turn, NL25 unknowns can be assumed to be bad poker players until proved otherwise, we don't have anything.

[Ender Wiggin]

doctr

villain folds AK to OPs second barrel

OP

I don't like this. second and third barrels are for when the board changes drastically, scaring a lot of holdings in villains range. like when villain peels a low flop and we put him on a pair or something and then an ace or king hits on the turn. this is not the case here, the board changed very little on both turn and river. there are def. spots to double and tripple barrel, but not in this hand imo.

[Dr_Doctr]

[ QUOTE ]
doctr

villain folds AK to OPs second barrel



[/ QUOTE ]

levelled?

[Ender Wiggin]

exscuse me sir?

[hallo!]

question: Depending on villain, this hand is preflop a fold or raise thing for me

Is this bad? I figure if im ahead of his A-range I can raise and see to get more information (flatcall and with action on A high board extreme caution) and i hate flatcalling this even in position, I in fact only do this with pairs or sc

[Khaos4k]

[ QUOTE ]
question: Depending on villain, this hand is preflop a fold or raise thing for me

Is this bad? I figure if im ahead of his A-range I can raise and see to get more information (flatcall and with action on A high board extreme caution) and i hate flatcalling this even in position, I in fact only do this with pairs or sc

[/ QUOTE ]

In position this is a raise from me every time. OOP I either call or raise. Villain can have a lot of hands that are worse than AQ that he open raises pre-flop.

I find that playing AQo OOP is difficult for me, especially in big pots, so that's why I don't always raise.

Also, you should reconsider flatcalling with SCs out of position. I stopped doing this because after some PT analysis it looked like a significant leak to me. You simply don't have the implied odds for it. The odds of hitting a straight or flush on the flop are pretty low. If you hit a draw you're likely getting charged for it on the flop.

Anyways, I'll stop moving my own thread off topic.

[Ender Wiggin]

wtffff OP I just saw your preflop and flop play

that is really bad

3bet or fold preflop, check/evaluate the flop.

[rrrorrim]

[ QUOTE ]
Even the donkiest donks in donkonia don't do that.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, I don't know where you play, but consider yourself blessed. In the micros at Stars there are donks galore! Yes - donks that will call you down with Ace or King high!

[ QUOTE ]
If you were playing this hand and were thinking about him having AK you would be wasting time you could be using thinking about the relevant issues.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm sorry, but I can't agree with this. On a fundamental level. I happen to believe that no time spent thinking is time wasted. Thank you for sharing your views though.

PS: My AKs scenario was more in reference to the flop. Many donks (actually, some good players too - for various devious reasons) would call Hero's flop bet with suited overcards - even if there was a backdoor flush draw.

EDIT: Yeah, I was kidding about "consider yourself blessed"... I know donks are good. Don't anyone dare respond to that. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[members_only]

You are beating a flush draw

If you want him to fold an overpair you will have to bet more than that on the river

Also bear in mind that while your flop donk may look very strong to a good TAGish player, not everyone will think like that

[traz]

don't bluff donks. You're never getting an overpair to fold here

[traxamillion]

why the hell would you flatcall pre with AQ... then donkbet 3barrel? WTF?

what part of your range do you actually frontbet on this flop?

If you frontbet overly it makes you very very easy to play against

[takingcontrol]

AQ oop against a strong hand with a terrible line is not a spot for taking the pot away from this guy. What are you repping and what do you think he's folding ?

[Khaos4k]

[ QUOTE ]
why the hell would you flatcall pre with AQ... then donkbet 3barrel? WTF?

what part of your range do you actually frontbet on this flop?

If you frontbet overly it makes you very very easy to play against

[/ QUOTE ]

What does frontbet mean?