Aggressive Calling & Range Merging

[ICMoney]

<font color="blue">Reads: He was pretty aggro, running around 28/21. He CBs the flop 77% and CBs turn 55%. He folds to donks on flop 55%. </font>

Full Tilt Poker, $0.25/$0.50 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 6 Players
LegoPoker (http://www.legopoker.com)Hand History Converter (http://www.legopoker.com/hh)

BB: $52.15
UTG: $69.60
MP: $49
CO: $48.50
BTN: $46.65
Hero (SB): $51

Pre-Flop: 7http://www.legopoker.com/hh/images/diamond.gif 7/images/graemlins/heart.gif dealt to Hero (SB)
UTG folds, <font color="red">MP raises to $1.75</font>, CO folds, BTN calls $1.75, Hero calls $1.50, BB folds

Flop: ($5.75) 5http://www.legopoker.com/hh/images/diamond.gif 3http://www.legopoker.com/hh/images/club.gif T/images/graemlins/heart.gif (3 Players)
Hero checks, <font color="red">MP bets $4</font>, BTN folds, Hero calls $4
<font color="blue">I didn’t donk b/c he might fold but will probably CB this 100% of the time.
</font>
Turn: ($13.75) 3/images/graemlins/spade.gif (2 Players)
Hero checks, <font color="red">MP bets $9</font>, Hero calls $9
<font color="blue">Turn doesn't change anything. If I fold this turn, shouldn't I just fold on flop? His TCB is 55% and I still think I'm good.
</font>
River: ($31.75) J/images/graemlins/heart.gif (2 Players)
<font color="red">Hero bets $21</font>
[b] <font color="blue">He has just $34 left on river.

My bet is so weird on the river. I’m pretty much committed to call (??) if he pushes.
Does my hand look strong by CC, CC or is he snap calling with 99, AT, AJ, QQ, etc?

Should I fold turn, bet/push river, CC river or what?
</font>

[traxamillion]

If he raises you its not because he feels he has fe so you will be behind. If he calls... Not sure what he calls with that you are ahead of. I know you are trying to merge your range or w/e but what part of your normal range would you actually play like this? I don't like.

[ICMoney]

I would prob call/3b ATs against this guy pf.

I don't always 3b TT pf.
I would take the same line with ATs, 55 or TT if I just call pf.

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He is aggro and might 3barrel AK, but if he has a pair it's prob 88,99,Tx.

Are those calling my river bet?

[toddxlogan]

That river bet sucks, IMO. It represents NOTHING, if that matters. Depending on what level villain is thinking on, it might not, but I think the bet sucks regardless. Further, if you are calling this a "range merging" bet, that means you are assuming villain is thinking on the third level, in which case he will KNOW your bet makes no sense and must feel inclined to call with almost any pair.

If it's a blocking bet because you don't want to call a 3rd barrel, then its significantly oversized. If its a valuebet (which I can't really see, what worse hand calls?) its far too large to get a call. If its a bluff, you are pushing your opponent off of AT and thats about it, which could have easily been accomplished for cheaper before.

Then again, I may well be missing something, and I am only mediocre at this game. Would be happy to have a little discussion on this one, so plz defend against my thoughts.

[toddxlogan]

[ QUOTE ]
I would prob call/3b ATs against this guy pf.

I don't always 3b TT pf.
I would take the same line with ATs, 55 or TT if I just call pf.

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He is aggro and might 3barrel AK, but if he has a pair it's prob 88,99,Tx.

Are those calling my river bet?

[/ QUOTE ]

I think you are thinking optimistically here. You have no reason to believe that villain isn't JUST as likely to be holding TT, JJ, QQ, KK, and AA here as he is to have 77/88/99/tx, do you? Cause I sure don't see anything that reveals any information about villains hand, aside from the fact that he has shown no letdown in strength from the beginning.

[vixticator]

Ew, raise turn if you plan on leading river. This line is spew IMO. I agree you shouldn't fold flop. Turn is a good spot to raise because he can't do anything without the best hand. It's a much stronger line.

[ICMoney]

[ QUOTE ]
Ew, raise turn if you plan on leading river. This line is spew IMO. I agree you shouldn't fold flop. Turn is a good spot to raise because he can't do anything without the best hand. It's a much stronger line.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, I like this.

I wasn't folding turn and was just hoping that a king or something rolled off.

I'll either raise turn or bet better on river next time.


Plugging leaks one a time. Thanks.

[Khumalo]

I don't like your line as a whole, although parts of it, say, flop and turn, might be okay in a different context.

I think that planning a multi-street call-down (or float?) OOP with a hand like 77 is already a delicate enough procedure when you're HU, let alone three way. When BTN calls pf, I usually alter my plan right away and either squeeze them by 3-betting, or play mainly for set value.

Note furthermore that when MP c-bets the flop, he's doing so into two people, rather than HU. The flop texture is such that he's less likely to do so (and then go on to double barrel) with just overcards, unless you have a specific read which says otherwise when he's in (smallish) multiway pots. The stats you provided at the beginning didn't really address the issue of being HU in a pot versus multiway.

As played, the flop is fairly innocuous with respect to your 77, so I might C/R his bet and try to end the hand right there (mainly cause we're OOP.) Check-calling isn't bad, but that's a terrible turn for him to fire again with air, so as played, I c/f turn.

If you insist on getting to showdown, just c/c turn and river. Trying to turn your hand into a bluff on the river (or even turn) is just going to be difficult (and bad on the risk/reward scale) on a board like this and in a spot like this. You can't rep any draws, your line looks weak or like you're full of it, so you're maybe folding a boldly played mid-pair higher than yours, and everything else that beats you calls, so he just folds hands you were ahead of to begin with, like AK; ergo, check-call is better.

[ICMoney]

[ QUOTE ]


I think you are thinking optimistically here. You have no reason to believe that villain isn't JUST as likely to be holding TT, JJ, QQ, KK, and AA here as he is to have 77/88/99/tx, do you? Cause I sure don't see anything that reveals any information about villains hand, aside from the fact that he has shown no letdown in strength from the beginning.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sure, he could have AA here. I think he can have 22+, AK and other overs.

He fires a second barrel a lot here and I'm getting 2.5:1.

[b]You like a fold or a CR AI better?

[toddxlogan]

If we are going at this thing, I think a turn crai is for sure the optimal play. He only calls this with TT, maybe AA, and really probably nothing else, and you profit both his c-bet and his turn c-bet. And it just looks soooooo much stronger than as played, which I think folds out only about AT.

EDDDDIT:

Interesting sidenote: The "how good are my kings here" thread you just posted in is basically the exact same hand as this one, except that hero in that hand is villain in this hand. And IIRC you advocated a call saying it looked like a really bluffy line. Thoughts?

[ICMoney]

Props. That's an interesting way to put 2 and 2 together (no pun intended).

The hand was slightly different (he limp called, utg and there was a reasonable straight draw and hero has an overpair for sure) but I agree that it is basically the same hand.

I wasn't really merging my range (don't think worse hands will call). Just wanted to use the fancy term really. Bet was really a bluff to fold mid pairs and not get bluffed by AK.

I don't know if that post was in the back of my mind when I decided to bet the river. I was really surprised how many people were folding their kings there.

I think 88, 99, Tx might fold and if some people lay down monster pairs there too, maybe it's not horrible (still a bad bet IMO).

Some of the comments:

This line from villain is generally a monster scared to lose value...

(Me) As played, I'm not folding river.

... so I don't hate the fold here.

I thought my fold was ok but I find you have to account for random play...

Looks like a bluff.

KK hand for reference (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&amp;Number=12480235&amp;an=0&amp;page=2#Pos t12480235)


[ QUOTE ]

EDDDDIT:

Interesting sidenote: The "how good are my kings here" thread you just posted in is basically the exact same hand as this one, except that hero in that hand is villain in this hand. And IIRC you advocated a call saying it looked like a really bluffy line. Thoughts?

[/ QUOTE ]

[icheckcallu]

i check raise shove turn if your read was your ahead

[Kukla]

Is it awful to check-raise flop here?( of course if he can't understand that you miss this flop most of time) As played seems check-call river much better than lead, he easily may put you on "T" and 3-barrel this river.

p.s. It is some strange in your line-&gt; you call flop and turn course think that you higher-&gt;but bet river in hope that he fold better hands?! Why your turn your hand into bluff?

[corsakh]

I much rather prefer floating in position. OOP I donk. But I also donk sets and draws and what not /images/graemlins/smile.gif