KK can i call here profitably?

[Monster207]

I really butchered this hand and felt like I had gotten a little to much into a fancy play syndrome. Anyway, do you guys call the river bet? villain was somewhat loose aggressive but not out of control. Do you lead the flop here?



Full Tilt Poker - No Limit Hold'em Cash Game - $0.05/$0.10 Blinds - 5 Players - (LegoPoker (http://www.legopoker.com) Hand History Converter (http://www.legopoker.com/hh))

SB: $9.60
BB: $6.00
UTG: $16.60
CO: $11.50
Hero (BTN): $17.00

Preflop: Hero is dealt K/images/graemlins/heart.gif K/images/graemlins/club.gif (5 Players)
<font color="red">UTG raises to $0.35</font>, CO folds, Hero calls $0.35, 2 folds

Flop: ($0.85) A/images/graemlins/spade.gif J/images/graemlins/heart.gif 3/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (2 Players)
UTG checks, Hero checks

Turn: ($0.85) 2/images/graemlins/spade.gif (2 Players)
<font color="red">UTG bets $0.50</font>, Hero calls $0.50

River: ($1.85) 6/images/graemlins/club.gif (2 Players)
<font color="red">UTG bets $1.50</font>

HERO?
Pot Size: $3.35

[bsball8806]

No, not really

[relativity_x]

yes, you have to call as played.

You played the hand very badly though.

Preflop: You should re-raise to 1.20.

Flop: 3/4 PSB

Turn: (assuming he calls flop) bet/fold

[Nick C]

Yeah, I call the river. Villain was probably either getting fancy himself on the flop or was scared of the ace like you are. And it's hard to say which.

I think the flop check is fine, basically. I mean, you have no idea what Villain has, but he doesn't know what you have either, and the check does at least allow Villain to convince himself that his QQ or TT might be good after all -- which is fine, so long as he follows up with callable bets like he did.

Also, raising preflop and then checking after flopping a monster is a thing that a lot of players like to do, so I would be a little wary here, while also hoping I can get to showdown.

If we knew Villain would immediately checkraise his top pair and better hands in response to a flop bet, then there would be something to be said for betting now instead of checking and trying to negotiate two more streets before showdown. But we don't know that, and I think the flop check is fine.

[vixticator]

Eh, I'd call against moderately aggro player. Too many people bet Jacks on turn and river after you check behind flop, they don't understand that it's a bad idea to bet them in this situation. You definitely have to raise preflop. Betting flop can go either way, if you check have to call turn obv.

[Monster207]

thanks preflop is definitely terrible.
I do think check is ok and a bet is ok as well. I felt that
villain was capable of check raising me here with a hand thats worse than an A. Hence the check... I
guess that ties me into calling on the river though cause like vixitcator said if he is aggro enough its a call. thanks all

[Chicago Twister]

checking this flop is standard, betting is often bluffing

[Nemesis69]

You should 3 bet preflop. That way it's much easier to play this hand.

[brandysbich]

Preflop = vomit...3bet pre

As played call turn and river

[ryang]

[ QUOTE ]
yes, you have to call as played.

You played the hand very badly though.

Preflop: You should re-raise to 1.20.

Flop: 3/4 PSB

Turn: (assuming he calls flop) bet/fold

[/ QUOTE ]

[anibalk]

Hi, i don't like how he play the hand, in NL10, of course.

Re-raise pre-flop.
Raise flop.

I think this play is better play player with no reads in NL10, and you can get some idea if he has scared A's.

One question about this:

[ QUOTE ]

I think the flop check is fine, basically. I mean, you have no idea what Villain has, but he doesn't know what you have either, and the check does at least allow Villain to convince himself that his QQ or TT might be good after all -- which is fine, so long as he follows up with callable bets like he did.

Also, raising preflop and then checking after flopping a monster is a thing that a lot of players like to do, so I would be a little wary here, while also hoping I can get to showdown.

If we knew Villain would immediately checkraise his top pair and better hands in response to a flop bet, then there would be something to be said for betting now instead of checking and trying to negotiate two more streets before showdown. But we don't know that, and I think the flop check is fine.

[/ QUOTE ]

¿You think check in flop is good for players in NL10?
In flop, with position, if we don't bet we don't have information.

Bet Flop. if he call we can scared a monster (maybe set, A's ...), if he fold is not bad, if he re-raise i like fold

What do you think about this, i know is very standar, but we are in NL10.

PD: sorry for my poor english.

[Nick C]

[ QUOTE ]
¿You think check in flop is good for players in NL10?
In flop, with position, if we don't bet we don't have information.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, I admitted that, but as some compensation, Villain doesn't really have any information either and might misinterpret our check.

If we bet, there's no guarantee the "information" we get will come immediately or will be reliable.

We're in one of those situations where we're much more likely to get called by a better hand than a worse one. But, at the same time, I don't think a call actually means we're beat since Villain could still have, say, QJ or a stubborn QQ or TT or 99.

It's a difficult situation, since we don't want to put a lot of money in anymore (now that we've flopped an overcard), but we might be better off putting the money in that we do as a caller rather than as a bettor.

Plus, checking does get us one street closer to showdown, with a smaller pot than there would be on the turn if we had bet the flop.

As for NL10, I don't really know how that limit plays specifically.

[anibalk]

ammmmm, OK!!!
is better control the pot size small, for take it in turn.

Thanks.

[Nogatsira]

Ugly passive hand
3bet preflop, bet the flop after he checked it to you and then re-evaluate the turn.
As played, call down his TJ

[Waingro]

Yes, call river. You have told him you don´t have much so he might be betting 88 or whatever. Apart from pf which an abomination you played it well.

[nebben]

Without looking at the responses, I 3 bet this flop every time. I bet about 2/3-1/2 the pot on the flop, and shutdown to anything but pretty small bets on turn and river. As played, it seems like a big part of villains range could be weakish aces (AT-A2) on the flop, and I fold river because I don't think 2-1 is enough given the UTG raise, and the turn and river bets.

[nebben]

I don't think the check is that bad. Especially in NL10, players here will call your bets with any ace. Given that you didn't reraise pf, it lets you put money in on the turn against a range that includes hands that you beat. If he raises pf, you call and you bet the ace, he is, if he is at all reasonable, going to call mostly with hands that beat you. There aren't a ton of draws out. If you check, he bets the turn with hands that he is trying to represent as an ace too.