50 nl 3-betting jj oop

[sgepower]

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool (http://poker-tools.flopturnriver.com/Hand-Converter.php) from FlopTurnRiver.com (http://www.flopturnriver.com) (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

CO ($50.80)
Button ($50)
Hero ($62.45)
BB ($49.25)
UTG ($52.80)
MP ($117)

Preflop: Hero is SB with Jhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/images/smiles/heart.gif, Jhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/images/smiles/spade.gif.
i]1 fold[/i]</font>, MP raises to $2</font>, 2 folds</font>, Hero raises to $7</font>, 1 fold</font>, MP calls $5.

Flop: ($14.50) 4http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/images/smiles/spade.gif, 3http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/images/smiles/spade.gif, 8http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/images/smiles/club.gif (2 players)</font>
Hero bets $10</font>, MP calls $10.

Turn: ($34.50) 7http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/images/smiles/club.gif (2 players)</font>
Hero checks, MP bets $13</font>, Hero folds.

Final Pot: $34.50


no reads on villain

are you always folding against an unknown in these kind of spots ?

[Spinners]

No, I'm not. I think you should have led out for $25 on the turn as draws are a big part of his range.

[sgepower]

[ QUOTE ]
No, I'm not. I think you should have led out for $25 on the turn as draws are a big part of his range.

[/ QUOTE ]


so lead for 25 and call a shove , probably drawing to 2 outs ?
what do you think about check raising allin ?

[Spinners]

I prefer B3b over c/r arr in

[catoandtonic]

[ QUOTE ]
No, I'm not. I think you should have led out for $25 on the turn as draws are a big part of his range.

[/ QUOTE ]

Since this is a 3bet pot, draws are not a big part of villain's range. It is a possibility, but other pp's make up a much larger part of villain's range.

[CyberianBull]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
No, I'm not. I think you should have led out for $25 on the turn as draws are a big part of his range.

[/ QUOTE ]

Since this is a 3bet pot, draws are not a big part of villain's range. It is a possibility, but other pp's make up a much larger part of villain's range.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think your ranges are a bit off. The pp that beat you are most likely 4-betting pf. This can easily be a AJs-AKs, 88-1010, or even a smaller pp (a set is raising your c-bet here most-likely). If the villain is passive, maybe QQ. I think when you checked the turn he put you on AK and decided to take it down.

[Spinners]

exactly something like AJs or Aks is very likely.

[sgepower]

[ QUOTE ]
exactly something like AJs or Aks is very likely.

[/ QUOTE ]

so if most of his range includes rather high cards than draws ,
check - raising would be a nice play here .

[johnnybeef]

I like a crai. He knows that ak is a big part of your range here, and will thus likely float with a lot of hands. Betting the turn likely won't get value from TT or 99, however a crai will likely commit him. Also, betting the turn will enable him to fold AK where as he may fire it if you check.

[catoandtonic]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Since this is a 3bet pot, draws are not a big part of villain's range. It is a possibility, but other pp's make up a much larger part of villain's range.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think your ranges are a bit off. The pp that beat you are most likely 4-betting pf. This can easily be a AJs-AKs, 88-1010, or even a smaller pp (a set is raising your c-bet here most-likely). If the villain is passive, maybe QQ. I think when you checked the turn he put you on AK and decided to take it down.

[/ QUOTE ]

There is 6 ways to be dealt a particular pocket pair and one way to be dealt AsKs. If we put villain's range at only one pp of TT or three combination of flush draws AsKs, AsQs and AsTs(dont forget we hold the Js). We still have 6:3 odds of villain being dealt a pp to A-Big spades. If we put villain's range to 99-AA(only 1 combo of JJ left) and add As9s we have 31:4 odds of villain being dealt a pp to A-Big spades.

I realize that villain is much more likely to continue post flop with hands that fit the board, thus increasing the chances he holds A-big spades. It is also likely that some villains would have played the pot more aggressively, i.e. raising the flop, with such a hand. I do admit 31:4 is too far weighted towards pocket pairs without taking these effects into account.

However, I stick with my original comment that a draw is not near as much of villain's range as pocket pairs are. I did not specify the first time, but I was speaking directly of flush draws.

I am not sure if you thought I was advocating a fold or even thought I was implying that we are behind villains range. I was not saying either. I was merely pointing out what I saw as an incorrect assumption that overvalued how often villain is going to have a spade draw.

[Harry Fong]

If the turn is not a spade or Q+ then shove.

As played check/shove