Missplayed or Bad Beat 50NL

[neil705]

Full Tilt Poker - No Limit Hold'em Cash Game - $0.25/$0.50 Blinds - 6 Players - (LegoPoker (http://www.legopoker.com) Hand History Converter (http://www.legopoker.com/hh))

SB: $48.75
Hero (BB): $50.30
UTG: $36.75
MP: $53.45
CO: $67.70
BTN: $51.35

Preflop: Hero is dealt J/images/graemlins/spade.gif T/images/graemlins/spade.gif (6 Players)
<font color="red">UTG raises to $1.75</font>, 4 folds, Hero calls $1.25

Flop: ($3.75) 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif 2/images/graemlins/spade.gif (2 Players)
Hero checks, UTG checks

Turn: ($3.75) K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (2 Players)
<font color="red">Hero bets $3.00</font>, UTG calls $3.00

River: ($9.75) 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif (2 Players)
<font color="red">Hero bets $6.00</font>, <font color="red">UTG raises to $27.75</font>, <font color="red">Hero raises all-in to $45.55</font>, UTG calls all-in for $4.25
Uncalled bet of $13.55 returned to Hero
Uncalled bet of $0.00 returned to UTG

Pot Size: $73.75 ($3 Rake)

UTG had 2/images/graemlins/diamond.gif 2/images/graemlins/heart.gif (a full house, Twos full of Eights) and WON (+$34.00)
Hero had J/images/graemlins/spade.gif T/images/graemlins/spade.gif ([Js Ts] a flush, Queen high) and LOST (-$36.75)

[0524432]

It's not necessarily a bad beat as much as it is a semi-cooler.

The river decision to come over the top of his raise is pretty horrible though. How often is he bluff raising you there? How many hands that make that raise on the paired-board river and made flush does a Jhi flush beat? Can't blame you for calling the river raise, because of the dry 8s and lower flushes that do this, but certainly -eV to come over the top. Thats a huge leak that needs attention.

[neil705]

i just did the over the top on river beacuse he had 4$ left if it was more i would have called he was a wild 53/20

[DiamondDog]

Just wondering, as a No-Limit noob, would it be horrible to check/call this river? We have a non-nut flush on a paired board. Or is that just too weak?

[valdiesel]

[ QUOTE ]
i just did the over the top on river beacuse he had 4$ left if it was more i would have called he was a wild 53/20

[/ QUOTE ]

I understand that he is 53/20 but what kind of range did u put him on when he raised you?

[popeye18]

[ QUOTE ]
Just wondering, as a No-Limit noob, would it be horrible to check/call this river? We have a non-nut flush on a paired board. Or is that just too weak?

[/ QUOTE ]

I think its going to miss alot of value.

As for the 4 dollars left, i would still just call.

[0524432]

[ QUOTE ]
i just did the over the top on river beacuse he had 4$ left if it was more i would have called he was a wild 53/20

[/ QUOTE ]

It makes no difference how much $ he has left. That is flawed thought process. By shoving over his river raise, on a paired board with a made flush draw, you are going to loose that $4 the same amount as you would lose any other amount of $.

[0524432]

[ QUOTE ]
Just wondering, as a No-Limit noob, would it be horrible to check/call this river? We have a non-nut flush on a paired board. Or is that just too weak?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yea checking the river that makes your hand is missing out on value. However, in my original reply to this post I said I couldn't blame him for CALLING the river raise, if he did that. Although, that doesn't mean calling the river raise is a good play. Just think about how likely it is for the villain to be raising your river bet with a 9hi flush or less? Compare that the the hands he could have you beat with after putting in $ on the flop and turn? (AsXs,KsXs,QsXs, and any full house) This might seem like a small range, but in reality it's not at all. There are a LOT of combinations of AsXs,KsXs, and QsXs.

[panda]

Just calling preflop kinda sucks. Reraise or fold.

[0524432]

[ QUOTE ]
Just calling preflop kinda sucks. Reraise or fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showfl...part=1&amp;vc=1 (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&amp;Number=12133839&amp;page=0&amp;fpart=1&amp; vc=1)

[panda]

I misread OP, I thought it was a late position raise, in which case that should have read as a one word answer: fold.

You're right, I shouldn't give a one-line answer but of the past 10 threads I've look at at least 4/5 had this kind of spot preflop, calling weak 1 pair hands oop and then wondering what to do. Calling UTG raises with JTs is not good.

[0524432]

the point of the mods cracking down on one-word and one-line answers is to maintain the integrity of 2p2. The reason people post these hands and certain spots they are in is to get advice and different points of view from fellow thinking players. Just because you and I know that JTs (esp OOP) fairs extremely poor against an UTG raise, doesn't mean that this hero does. If you're going to take the time to post a reply, make it useful and explain the thought process and why, as much as you possibly can.

[DiamondDog]

Thanks for the replies to my question. Very useful.

Thanks to the OP too.

[panda]

[ QUOTE ]
the point of the mods cracking down on one-word and one-line answers is to maintain the integrity of 2p2. The reason people post these hands and certain spots they are in is to get advice and different points of view from fellow thinking players. Just because you and I know that JTs (esp OOP) fairs extremely poor against an UTG raise, doesn't mean that this hero does. If you're going to take the time to post a reply, make it useful and explain the thought process and why, as much as you possibly can.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree, I was wrong.

However at the same time people should not be posting lots of hands of their own, with simple answeres like this, without participating in other threads.

[Nogatsira]

Thats not a bad beat, its a cooler. There is a difference.

The only one who missplayed it was villain, even though he got your stack here

[panda]

I can't believe anyone has the knowledge to raise 22 UTG but NOT c-bet when they flop a set on a semi-wet board!

[Nogatsira]

[ QUOTE ]
I can't believe anyone has the knowledge to raise 22 UTG but NOT c-bet when they flop a set on a semi-wet board!

[/ QUOTE ]

We can only hope those people don't get lured into these forums

[panda]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I can't believe anyone has the knowledge to raise 22 UTG but NOT c-bet when they flop a set on a semi-wet board!

[/ QUOTE ]

We can only hope those people don't get lured into these forums

[/ QUOTE ]

Half of those that do (myself included) still do stupid stuff like this often enough.

[Nogatsira]

Thats true, but I don't think alot of people make mistakes as big as this, to slowplay sets on wet boards.
And at least we're trying to improve our game by browsing these forums /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[whyzze]

he played very poorly. The only questionable play you made was preflop. Even then its not bad.

[C4LL4W4Y]

i think preflop is a pretty big leak, actually. utg only has 34 behind, and you're calling his raise OOP with a suited connector. if you guys were deeper it would be one thing, but most of the time this is bad.

[mrw8419]

I really don't think calling pf is that big of a leak from the BB. Its not like he's sticking his whole stack in every time a 10 or j flops. As long as you play reasonable oop this is very neutral ev.

[neil705]

[ QUOTE ]
I really don't think calling pf is that big of a leak from the BB. Its not like he's sticking his whole stack in every time a 10 or j flops. As long as you play reasonable oop this is very neutral ev.

[/ QUOTE ]

exactly i was calling beacuse this is the type of hand i can crack the 53/20 fish for his stack

[C4LL4W4Y]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I really don't think calling pf is that big of a leak from the BB. Its not like he's sticking his whole stack in every time a 10 or j flops. As long as you play reasonable oop this is very neutral ev.

[/ QUOTE ]

exactly i was calling beacuse this is the type of hand i can crack the 53/20 fish for his stack

[/ QUOTE ]

right, so you called a raise oop against a short stack to get 'his stack'. sounds fundamentally sound to me.