NL50 lots of people, we has an overpair?!

[lsaw2]

Villain is 33/11/1 over a small sample, I dont know anything about the others in the pot.


So do we have the best hand?
How do you react to the crappy bet sizes?
How does the number of people behind us affect it?


PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool (http://poker-tools.flopturnriver.com/Hand-Converter.php) from FlopTurnRiver.com (http://www.flopturnriver.com) (Format: 2+2 Forums)

CO ($50)
Button ($30.15)
Hero ($101.80)
BB ($34.05)
UTG ($83)
MP ($64.35)

Preflop: Hero is SB with 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 8/images/graemlins/club.gif.
<font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">CO raises to $2</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Button raises to $3.9</font>, Hero calls $3.65, BB calls $3.40, CO calls $1.90.

Flop: ($15.60) 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 4/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 3/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
Hero checks, BB checks, CO checks, <font color="#CC3333">Button bets $2.5</font>, Hero calls $2.50, BB folds, CO calls $2.50.

Turn: ($23.10) 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
Hero checks, CO checks, <font color="#CC3333">Button bets $4.75</font>, Hero folds, CO folds.

Final Pot: $23.10

Results in white below: <font color="#FFFFFF">
No showdown. Button wins $23.10. </font>

[UptownExpress]

oh god. where to start.
call turn getting 6-1 please. reavaluate on river.

[lsaw2]

now you've started care to finish??

[terp]

god fold preflop

[kolotoure]

[ QUOTE ]
god fold preflop

[/ QUOTE ]

srsly

[UptownExpress]

[ QUOTE ]
god fold preflop

[/ QUOTE ]

yeah

[lsaw2]

Anyone got anything slightly helpfull? You could pretend?!!?


I can't particularily understand folding preflop, though I contemplated folding the flop. Folding the turn felt weak yet I also felt I shouldn't have got to that point with it still being 4 handed and still having no clue where I am?!

[UptownExpress]

folding preflop is standard because you are getting squeezed and u have 88 and even if ur sure there will be no 4 bet u should still fold.

[mookboi]

Hmm. I for one, disagree with the fold preflop advice. I'd call this for set value from CO &amp; whatever button's got in his stack as bonus. I mean... he minraised!

As far as the hand goes, since we missed our set, I would fold flop. I think it was CTS or Boosted J or someone in their well post that said to stop throwing away money in situations like this where you are like "zomg, he could have AK!" and raise.

However, if you are determined to play this hand for other than set value, I think calling is not a good option. First of all, you want to make it expensive for the people who limped in behind you to continue. This is board where your overpair is very vulnerable, there are a lot of draws, and you don't want to let BB and CO in there cheaply if you decide to stay in the hand. Stack sizes at this point are another great reason to fold instead of continuing, because if you raise, you are pretty much committing yourself against Button and/or BB. If you are going to raise to get rid of CO &amp; BB, you gotta make it at least 12-15ish, and if Button or BB shoves, it'll be like 12-15ish more to you, and you'd have to call. So... yeah, fold. Calling is just weak.

As played, on turn, it looks to me like he is just trying to slowly push his stack in there with a strong made hand. All your options suck at this point. Folding is weak, why did we call flop then? Calling is meh, because he'll just fire again on river, and you still have no idea where you are at, and almost no river card will make you feel better about your hand. Raising commits you, which is a good way to get stacked.

I hate this whole hand to be honest. If you are gonna call PF, call for set value and fold on flop right away. If you are not gonna fold on flop, then raise and commit yourself.

[RichAM]

[ QUOTE ]
Hmm. I for one, disagree with the fold preflop advice. I'd call this for set value from CO &amp; whatever button's got in his stack as bonus. I mean... he minraised!

As far as the hand goes, since we missed our set, I would fold flop. I think it was CTS or Boosted J or someone in their well post that said to stop throwing away money in situations like this where you are like "zomg, he could have AK!" and raise.

However, if you are determined to play this hand for other than set value, I think calling is not a good option. First of all, you want to make it expensive for the people who limped in behind you to continue. This is board where your overpair is very vulnerable, there are a lot of draws, and you don't want to let BB and CO in there cheaply if you decide to stay in the hand. Stack sizes at this point are another great reason to fold instead of continuing, because if you raise, you are pretty much committing yourself against Button and/or BB. If you are going to raise to get rid of CO &amp; BB, you gotta make it at least 12-15ish, and if Button or BB shoves, it'll be like 12-15ish more to you, and you'd have to call. So... yeah, fold. Calling is just weak.

As played, on turn, it looks to me like he is just trying to slowly push his stack in there with a strong made hand. All your options suck at this point. Folding is weak, why did we call flop then? Calling is meh, because he'll just fire again on river, and you still have no idea where you are at, and almost no river card will make you feel better about your hand. Raising commits you, which is a good way to get stacked.

I hate this whole hand to be honest. If you are gonna call PF, call for set value and fold on flop right away. If you are not gonna fold on flop, then raise and commit yourself.

[/ QUOTE ]

QFT

I agree, you can't fold this PF b/c of the stacking off of the donks when you hit your set. They gave it to you cheap so u might as well say thank you by stacking them.

[lsaw2]

Have I posted in BBV or something?

[RichAM]

[ QUOTE ]
Have I posted in BBV or something?

[/ QUOTE ]

yeah, some people can be real [censored] on here

AMA will get them for this crap

[kolotoure]

Is the betting reopened here?

[lsaw2]

[ QUOTE ]
Hmm. I for one, disagree with the fold preflop advice. I'd call this for set value from CO &amp; whatever button's got in his stack as bonus. I mean... he minraised!

As far as the hand goes, since we missed our set, I would fold flop. I think it was CTS or Boosted J or someone in their well post that said to stop throwing away money in situations like this where you are like "zomg, he could have AK!" and raise.

However, if you are determined to play this hand for other than set value, I think calling is not a good option. First of all, you want to make it expensive for the people who limped in behind you to continue. This is board where your overpair is very vulnerable, there are a lot of draws, and you don't want to let BB and CO in there cheaply if you decide to stay in the hand. Stack sizes at this point are another great reason to fold instead of continuing, because if you raise, you are pretty much committing yourself against Button and/or BB. If you are going to raise to get rid of CO &amp; BB, you gotta make it at least 12-15ish, and if Button or BB shoves, it'll be like 12-15ish more to you, and you'd have to call. So... yeah, fold. Calling is just weak.

As played, on turn, it looks to me like he is just trying to slowly push his stack in there with a strong made hand. All your options suck at this point. Folding is weak, why did we call flop then? Calling is meh, because he'll just fire again on river, and you still have no idea where you are at, and almost no river card will make you feel better about your hand. Raising commits you, which is a good way to get stacked.

I hate this whole hand to be honest. If you are gonna call PF, call for set value and fold on flop right away. If you are not gonna fold on flop, then raise and commit yourself.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks for thinking about it, I thought I should have folded flop but it just felt weak.


Only took what 5 posts to get one with some thought in it!!

[Hail Eris]

Button is too short to call PF, unless you expect everyone to call behind you like they did. This hand kind of sucks from start to finish, and I never know what to do here, either. The safest option is to just c/f the flop, but I guess c/r smallish is ok, too.

[Snoman13]

I fold PF, aren't you not getting the right implied odds?

[CaptVimes]

Why would you want to play 88 from the worst possible position, in a three-bet pot (yes, I know, mini-raise), with effective stacks of 30.15, and your not closing the betting?

[lsaw2]

4betting really doesn't go on unless they 100% have it at NL50, this 3 bet was so retardedly small I thought I could call profitably if at least one other person called.


I played it wrong then but at least I knew what I did wrong at the time :P

Don't quite know why I found this so hard to fold, meh. These things happen /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Subzero_Wins]

The reason why no one is offering any "helpful" advice is because folding preflop is so basic here people didn't think they had to go into detail.

When you call after the button 3-bets, CO now has a chance to 4-bet and push you out of the hand. In addition the 10x rule is retarded and doesn't apply oop and in 6-max.

[Kasane]

You could consider a pf call here if button was as deep as you are. But he's only got 60bb, not enough with CO potentially raising. You can reraise here preflop, but considering stacks, you'd be pretty committed at that point. I wouldn't bother at 50NL.

Calling is the worst of your options preflop. You're oop, you're not getting the odds, and you're not closing the action.

Short stacks mess up the hands you want to play sometimes -- but smart players recognize those spots. You dump your nice suited connectors, small pairs and other speculative stuff when your implied odd go down -- a lot of the fun stuff, unfortunately. Recognize the inevitable and move on.

Cliffnotes: fold pf.

[barabe]

I say good call pf, and maybe even could've went for a raise on that flop there, and see how things go from there. Fold to any more aggression, take down the pot if everyone folds, and if you get callers, control the pot, keep it small with blocking bets since you're OOP.

[mookboi]

To be honest, I think it's a bit ridiculous to have a thread with 20 replies, half of them saying "you are retarded for calling preflop."

Yes, it's a very close decision, and most people fold here. Some people call. No reads were given on CO, so he could be total tard, and at 50NL, he is rarely realizing his opportunity and pushing. Most of the time they just call. + The times he's stacking more than 1 person in a hand with a set make up for PF.

HOWEVER, why are you all paying so much attention to PF call? That's not where the problem in the hand lies. He threw away 8BB, even if he doesn't have proper odds for set, it's very close, his decision, if -EV can't be more than like 1 or 2 BB -EV in the long run.

Why do people comment so much on preflop play in this forum? It's NL, postflop is what counts. I don't know how many threads are filled with "zomg, you limped utg pf, never do that!!" without further addressing how the hand played out.

The OP's original questions were:

[ QUOTE ]
So do we have the best hand?
How do you react to the crappy bet sizes?
How does the number of people behind us affect it?

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't see anyone answering those.

[Subzero_Wins]

Just because half the people want to call preflop while the other half say it's retarded doesn't make it a close decision. It just means half the people are wrong.

And making bad preflop choices usually leads to bigger mistakes later on, which is why it's commented on here. If this were MSNL then I would agree commenting on preflop is largely unecessary, but a lot of the biggest mistakes people are making can largely be fixed with good preflop play.