ak hits A high flop and gets minraised

[popeye18]

Both villains have been playing tight pf. What now?

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (5 handed) Hand History Converter Tool (http://poker-tools.flopturnriver.com/Hand-Converter.php) from FlopTurnRiver.com (http://www.flopturnriver.com) (Format: 2+2 Forums)

BB ($14.85)
UTG ($25.75)
MP ($36.30)
Button ($25.35)
Hero ($29.50)

Preflop: Hero is SB with K/images/graemlins/spade.gif, A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
<font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, Button calls $0.25, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $1</font>, BB calls $0.75, Button calls $0.75.

Flop: ($3) 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, A/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 9/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $1.75</font>, BB calls $1.75, <font color="#CC3333">Button raises to $3.5</font>

[panda]

Raise more preflop, I'd normally make it around 6BB here, you need to punish the button open limper more than you have.

Because he open limped the button I doubt I'm capable of doing any thing other than labeling him a donkey and stacking off here. I don't there's much difference between a reraise and calling a push and just calling and check/raising turn.

[Milky]

Eek, that's a scary spot, especially with BB cold-calling. I think I'd call the flop and c/f turn UI. They could have something like JT or 67 but they can also have A8, A9, 89, 88, 99, and the very unlikely AA. I'm guessing one of them is on a draw and the other one has you beat but who knows.

[panda]

[ QUOTE ]
Eek, that's a scary spot, especially with BB cold-calling. I think I'd call the flop and c/f turn UI. They could have something like JT or 67 but they can also have A8, A9, 89, 88, 99, and the very unlikely AA. I'm guessing one of them is on a draw and the other one has you beat but who knows.

[/ QUOTE ]

I didn't see BB's call, that makes this even more of a reraise on the flop.

88, 99, especially AA and even A8 and A9 are made more unlikely by his button open limp. There's so many random Ax hands in buttons range that you are way ahead of.

[Ramana]

We can't jsut call here. One guy may be drawing to phenomanal odds, the other paralyzing us with just Ax. AK has too much value in this spot to be played passively. I RR here, if he shoves, i call. Sometimes you will lose, but there's enough dead money in the pot+NL25 donk-plays make this +EV.

Stats are important here.

[mvdgaag]

I think you're beat quite often... Even if he does this with AQ and AJ there's still 88, 99, A8, A9, 98 and it's going to cost us a lot, being OOP, to find out if we're beat. I fold.

[mvdgaag]

[ QUOTE ]
There's so many random Ax hands in buttons range that you are way ahead of.

[/ QUOTE ]

It would take a good read to put him on a weak ace here IMO. Few villains will raise with that crap. Some do it habitually though, losing money to 'find out where they stand'...

[BigNads79]

I either just complete or raise to $2 preflop and then check/raise the flop either way, folding to a reraise, and check/folding to a sizable bet on the turn/river.

As played, I think I fold. Someone has you beat. What are you going to do if the BB reraises or if you reraise and are called?

[Ramana]

lol @ folding getting 999999:1

[mvdgaag]

[ QUOTE ]
lol @ folding getting 999999:1

[/ QUOTE ]

So you're falling for that one /images/graemlins/wink.gif GL

[Shizzle12345]

lol your an idiot if you fold here. You got TPTK and the guy minraises. If he pots turn or something you can always fold, but folding this on the flop is really weak.

[PJo336]

I call to evaluate the turn. If the player after you did reraise, you now know your def beat. Aggression on the turn will show he prob has a very solid hand such as A8, A9, or a set, but anything safe like a 2c im prob felting the turn

[scallop]

raise the pot. Calling is terrible, because it lets BB call as well. GEt it all in. Mini-raises are not always the nuts, and calling sucks and folding is SO weak.

[monkeymaps]

I dont get RR its gonna have to be a big raise given whats already in the pot and 2 opponents. so youll be pretty much commited after that so you guys are all saying this is a good spot to stack off? I dont get it. also what hands call a RR that we beat?

I dont see folding with these odds but calling and re-eval turn seems best here. I mean you made your cbet then got cold called and then get minraised that screams stength to me. OP said villans had been playing tightly pre as well so I dont really see this as a spot for villan to be messing around.

[barabe]

re-raose that like another 5 $

[NL Newbie]

Call, lead turn - Im not liking our equity and i dont want to bloat the pot.

[Montezuma21]

raise a little more pre. bet flop a little harder IMO.

this might seem weird, but i would min-reraise the flop bet in order to get the pot HU. BB will have a tough time calling if he can't beat AK (fearing a raise from BTN behind). If BTN pushes then you known you're beat and can fold safely. if he just flat calls bet-fold a non-7/Q turn for a 3/4PSB

[wslee00]

you really shoulda bet more on the flop - i think it makes this hand a whole lot easier to play.

i'm wavering between the min-reraise suggestion vs. the call flop, bet safe turn suggestion.

[0524432]

[ QUOTE ]
Call, lead turn - Im not liking our equity and i dont want to bloat the pot.

[/ QUOTE ]

I like this play very much. This is truly a turn re-eval. If I'm the villain on the turn, and after raising that flop, my opponent leads into the turn, unless I have a VERY strong hand, I'm calling down.

I like this play very much. If Hero does this and gets turn raised, you can be nearly certain you are well behind.

Edit: I repeated myself without noticing I likethis line so much...heee hawww

[popeye18]

I call and bb calls. Turn is an 8 completeing the rainbow and i lead out for 1/3 of the pot. Thoughts?

[kurto]

I don't understand everyone long term plan.

We call and the pot is now $13.50.

The next bet is at least $7 (if we lead 1/2 potish) and as much as $13 depending on whether people make PSBs or not.

Are we really calling hoping the next two streets are checked down?

If the next 2 streets have betting, its more then likely our whole stack is in there.

So, aren't we only moving on with this hand if we think we're ahead here most often then not?

[mvdgaag]

monkeymaps? What if villain made a decent raise instead?

We're OOP and both reraising or leading the turn are going to commit us and cost us more when we're behind. I think we're not ahead very often... Calling will definately have villain bet this turn with about any hand, so what's there to reevaluate?
Top pair schmop pair. Call me a nit, but I need a read to think someone is reraising this with a weak ace.

[Khumalo]

OP, I like $1.50 pre, and lead that flop bigger; then, when the button raises both your strong lead and BB's call of it, you can happily consider folding, especially if you preceive him as 'tight' (and evidently not aggressive, given pf.)

The problem with your bet-sizing (pf and post) is that it muddies the waters OOP, and it's much harder to determine (without extensive history) if villains are drawing, peeling with a mid pp, raising light-ish, how to proceed forward on the turn given your unwillingness to muck under such nebulous flop circumstances, etc.