Potential Political Impact?

[DeadMoneyDad]

What about sending a very cheap PPA playing card or something in the postage paid return envelopes to those of you on the RNC or DNC mailing list?

I know I can get something printed up very cheaply; even an online pre-printed impact message in an odd shape might work. Or something that at first glance looks like a donation check?

Thoughts?


D$D

[Tuff_Fish]

Just thinking out loud.

We, and the PPA, need some exposure. How about a few hundred of us descend on Kentucky around mid to late October just before the elections and make some noise? We could rally at the respective headquarters in support and opposition of the two candidates.

We would keep it all very positive.

"It is about money for education"

"It is about personal liberty"

"Poker is a game of skill and poker players are fine folks"

If we could get the numbers, we would get noticed. And we could also do a bit of volunteering for "our" candidate, thus getting a measure of credit for his victory.

Just a thought.

Tuff

[DeadMoneyDad]

[ QUOTE ]
Just thinking out loud.

We, and the PPA, need some exposure. How about a few hundred of us descend on Kentucky around mid to late October just before the elections and make some noise? We could rally at the respective headquarters in support and opposition of the two candidates.

We would keep it all very positive.

"It is about money for education"

"It is about personal liberty"

"Poker is a game of skill and poker players are fine folks"

If we could get the numbers, we would get noticed. And we could also do a bit of volunteering for "our" candidate, thus getting a measure of credit for his victory.

Just a thought.

Tuff

[/ QUOTE ]

I can be ready in 1/2 hour and in KY in about 7 hours with a reliable car. Tuff I'll pick you up at the airport!


Just tell me when and where. TE it's an open offer.


D$D

[Legislurker]

Good idea, but perhaps best to keep it as Kentucky intensive a gathering as possible. Americans don't like carpetbaggers. Don't let them cast it as a gathering of paid reps of foreign gambling.

[TheEngineer]

[ QUOTE ]
Good idea, but perhaps best to keep it as Kentucky intensive a gathering as possible. Americans don't like carpetbaggers. Don't let them cast it as a gathering of paid reps of foreign gambling.

[/ QUOTE ]

I was going to write the same thing. Thanks for the offers, but Kentuckians hate carpetbaggers more than most states, I'd guess, especially in regards to our elecions and our decisions on gaming.

Fletcher is down by 17% in yesterday's polls (56%-39%, http://time-blog.com/real_clear_politics/2007/09/big_lead_for_beshear.html ). No churches or FoF-types are rallying for Fletcher or for his anti-gaming position. I guess we shouldn't interrupt Fletcher's crash and burn.

[DeadMoneyDad]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Good idea, but perhaps best to keep it as Kentucky intensive a gathering as possible. Americans don't like carpetbaggers. Don't let them cast it as a gathering of paid reps of foreign gambling.

[/ QUOTE ]

I was going to write the same thing. Thanks for the offers, but Kentuckians hate carpetbaggers more than most states, I'd guess, especially in regards to our elecions and our decisions on gaming.

Fletcher is down by 17% in yesterday's polls (56%-39%, http://time-blog.com/real_clear_politics/2007/09/big_lead_for_beshear.html ). No churches or FoF-types are rallying for Fletcher or for his anti-gaming position. I guess we shouldn't interrupt Fletcher's crash and burn.

[/ QUOTE ]

Your choice. If you don't think there aren't anti-gambling pros involved already deeply involved you are sadly mistaken. Of course a the best of pros you'd never know they weren't an unpaid local volunteer. That is how we work... /images/graemlins/wink.gif


D$D

[TheEngineer]

[ QUOTE ]
Your choice. If you don't think there aren't anti-gambling pros involved already deeply involved you are sadly mistaken. Of course a the best of pros you'd never know they weren't an unpaid local volunteer. That is how we work... /images/graemlins/wink.gif


D$D

[/ QUOTE ]

I may or may not be "sadly mistaken", but I think that's where things seem to be based on the current data. Why interrupt the Fletcher train wreck?

[DeadMoneyDad]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Your choice. If you don't think there aren't anti-gambling pros involved already deeply involved you are sadly mistaken. Of course a the best of pros you'd never know they weren't an unpaid local volunteer. That is how we work... /images/graemlins/wink.gif


D$D

[/ QUOTE ]

I may or may not be "sadly mistaken", but I think that's where things seem to be based on the current data. Why interrupt the Fletcher train wreck?

[/ QUOTE ]

It is just two schools of thought. Good campaign pros are always involved no matter the state. The carpetbagger issue is never a problem except for communications people.

I say, and have said, a highly visible well coordinated effort and the PPA gets a lot of credit for burying the looser. We can play it penny wise and pound foolish and try to scrape up as much credit from friendly PR types, and get some media credit. But the National parties will know exactly how much effort was really put on the ground.

I fully understand the argument of doing it on the cheap. The way the polls look now it seems like a possible wasted effort. But if things start to move it is going to be too late to for us to pull the trigger given where we currently are as an organization.

The idea that the 72 hour campaign is just a 3 day effort is completely misunderstood. I know how and have moved +-5% from final weekend polls and the other side often was completely blindsided. I've also cause the national to spend millions of extra dollars and tons of man hours to combat my well organized grassroots volunteer efforts. That 3 day “72 hour” campaigns are built long before the final weekend. They have worked well in the past because they are semi-stealth in nature. Once they became highly publicized they were easier to counteract for in your campaign planning.

So I completely understand the argument that "he's going to loose, why bother?" But if the WTO case causes movement sooner rather than later do you want to have to beg for a seat at the table or get to organize the seating????

If the WTO case doesn’t cause a sooner victory we have primaries coming up, then the ’08 cycle. When are we going to exercise our muscles? We can’t expect to be ready to run the ’08 marathon without a few tune up races. Well we can expect to……..

Smart politics is pro-action, reaction is a losers’ game. You may get a win but your win ends a phyrric victory.

IMPO the PPA position seems to be to want to limp into the pot and hope to win a monster.

But what the hell do I know about anything?


D$D

[TheEngineer]

[ QUOTE ]
It is just two schools of thought. Good campaign pros are always involved no matter the state. The carpetbagger issue is never a problem except for communications people.....

[/ QUOTE ]

You already brought this to John Pappas, and he shared with you PPA's perspective.

I welcome any volunteer work you wish to do, of course. My work is on a volunteer basis as well. Feel free to PM me with any other comments. Thanks.

[DeadMoneyDad]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
It is just two schools of thought. Good campaign pros are always involved no matter the state. The carpetbagger issue is never a problem except for communications people.....

[/ QUOTE ]

You already brought this to John Pappas, and he shared with you PPA's perspective.

I welcome any volunteer work you wish to do, of course. My work is on a volunteer basis as well. Feel free to PM me with any other comments. Thanks.

[/ QUOTE ]

John and I talked about a number of issues and a number of ways of handling them. He said he needed to think them over. Are you saying a decision has been reached?

Inquiring minds want to know,


D$D

[Tuff_Fish]

[ QUOTE ]

.
.
Don't let them cast it as a gathering of paid reps of foreign gambling.

[/ QUOTE ]
.
.
I don't much expect that I would be mistaken as a paid rep for foreign gambling...
.
/images/graemlins/grin.gif

/images/graemlins/grin.gif

/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Tuff

On a more serious note, I wouldn't think that folks are going to quiz us on where we come from if we look and act like serious concerned citizens advocating for a cause we believe in.

How many of the demonstrators we see for various causes here and there are actually locals just venting their heartfelt concerns?

I believe it would be a good thing to put a poker face on any political victory.

I have seen many references to the NRA. I agree that the NRA would serve as a good template for the PPA or any other poker advocacy group. So..., what would the NRA do if the race in KY had a strong gun control element to it?

T

[Legislurker]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

.
.
Don't let them cast it as a gathering of paid reps of foreign gambling.

[/ QUOTE ]
.
.
I don't much expect that I would be mistaken as a paid rep for foreign gambling...
.
/images/graemlins/grin.gif

/images/graemlins/grin.gif

/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Tuff

On a more serious note, I wouldn't think that folks are going to quiz us on where we come from if we look and act like serious concerned citizens advocating for a cause we believe in.

How many of the demonstrators we see for various causes here and there are actually locals just venting their heartfelt concerns?

I believe it would be a good thing to put a poker face on any political victory.

I have seen many references to the NRA. I agree that the NRA would serve as a good template for the PPA or any other poker advocacy group. So..., what would the NRA do if the race in KY had a strong gun control element to it?

T

[/ QUOTE ]

The NRA would have 2-3 national guys at the head of 2-300 local volunteers calling 20-30k state members.

[DeadMoneyDad]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

.
.
Don't let them cast it as a gathering of paid reps of foreign gambling.

[/ QUOTE ]
.
.
I don't much expect that I would be mistaken as a paid rep for foreign gambling...
.
/images/graemlins/grin.gif

/images/graemlins/grin.gif

/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Tuff

On a more serious note, I wouldn't think that folks are going to quiz us on where we come from if we look and act like serious concerned citizens advocating for a cause we believe in.

How many of the demonstrators we see for various causes here and there are actually locals just venting their heartfelt concerns?

I believe it would be a good thing to put a poker face on any political victory.

I have seen many references to the NRA. I agree that the NRA would serve as a good template for the PPA or any other poker advocacy group. So..., what would the NRA do if the race in KY had a strong gun control element to it?

T

[/ QUOTE ]

The NRA would have 2-3 national guys at the head of 2-300 local volunteers calling 20-30k state members.

[/ QUOTE ]

As soon as the race became a referundum on guns the NRA would have gathered up the local deligates and nationals, voted on a plan and put it into action.

This would include mass e-mailings to all members. All of TE's action alerts, heartfelt donation drives to pay for any expenditures, training meetings for new members, contact with the campaign to offer organized volunteer hours, action in each district to use the issue for new membership/membership upgrades capitalizing on this HOT issue, media contact to show the troops in action, more national donation efforts, the list goes on and on.

If there had been a UIGEA type event where the issue had great potential for the upcomming general election they would do at least the following off the top of my head.


D$D

[Tuff_Fish]

How would the NRA reach out to non-NRA folks?

How many PPA members are there in KY?

How do you get them all in one place at one time?

How do you persuade them to get busy and make "positive noise?

Tuff

[Legislurker]

Im taking it you havent ever been to a gun show Tuff.

[Tuff_Fish]

No, I haven't.

Shall we put on a "poker show" in Lexington, Frankfort, and Louisville?

Seriously, we, they, the PPA, somebody, should do something to generate a little positive press with regards to poker and this election.

Tuff

[oldbookguy]

In this fight, it is likely too late, but the PPA needs to partner with the pro gaming concerns.

obg

[DeadMoneyDad]

[ QUOTE ]
How would the NRA reach out to non-NRA folks?

[/ QUOTE ]

The usual NRA tatic is to generalize the issue on freedom/rights. Here the freedom/rights is compouned by the fact that Fletcher is an idiot. His position is "I think you should vote for me because gambling is evil, but I don't think you have the right to even vote on a future ballot issue as you can't be trusted to vote correctly, but hey vote for me.

[ QUOTE ]
How many PPA members are there in KY?

[/ QUOTE ]

I know, but don't know if I can say. Put it this way if only 10% put in a few hours you'd have a massive effort. The potential to use this issue to grow the membership is a fantastic ROI, IMPO. I spent 4 nights this week visiting local poker bar leagues. If you take plublished numbers they seem to hold up. 30 million poker players 15 million play on-line, PPA membership 3/4 million. I can give you rough estimates of the number of people who have never heard of the PPA, existing freeroll members, and dues paying members. I have a ton of workible membership outreach ideas that these bar league like and will run at no cost.

[ QUOTE ]
How do you get them all in one place at one time?

[/ QUOTE ]

You don't! There is no need to do so. Major metropolitian centers and existing poker gathering places is where you look for poker players. On-line campaigns these days do well. The NRA has deligates in each district. The GOP Team Leader program started at the county level and went down from there as needed.

[ QUOTE ]
How do you persuade them to get busy and make "positive noise?

[/ QUOTE ]

Experience.


D$D

[DeadMoneyDad]

[ QUOTE ]

In this fight, it is likely too late, but the PPA needs to partner with the pro gaming concerns.

obg

[/ QUOTE ]

Well it is getting late, but it is not too late. I've done a lot with candidates behind at this point. No I don't think even I could save Ernie, but I could put some life in his campaign and avoid a total embarasment for the GOP in KY.


D$D

[TheEngineer]

[ QUOTE ]
How would the NRA reach out to non-NRA folks?

How many PPA members are there in KY?

How do you get them all in one place at one time?

How do you persuade them to get busy and make "positive noise?

Tuff

[/ QUOTE ]

Why? We're ahead by almost 20 points. You don't use bait for fish you already caught.

The anti-poker folks aren't going to rally around anyone as tainted as Fletcher. Even they can see through the real purpose of his campaign of distraction. I personally think we're best letting this election run its course without encouraging or getting any resistance from FoF-types. With this, we'll claim victory while showing everyone that Fletcher's anti-gaming message wasn't enough to fire anyone up

The risk we take of putting together a 30-person march is that some churches will get together to march against gaming -- not in support of Fletcher, but in response to the pro-gaming march. Then, we'll still win, but politicians will see that the die-hards were somewhat responsive to the message. You all know I'm not normally the type who says we should be quiet for fear of arousing the opposition, but this is a special case where we shouldn't interfere with the train wreck.

We do need to show what we did. So far, I sent an email to every PPA member in KY, urging them to send a letter to Gov. Fletcher and to their state reps. I also sent out a press release announcing our advocacy. After the election, we'll do the same, asking PPA members to write to Congress, stating that the voters have spoken. We'll also have bumper stickers and other advocacy. We're also discussing how we'll handle exit polling.

[DeadMoneyDad]

[ QUOTE ]


Why? We're ahead by almost 20 points. You don't use bait for fish you already caught.



[/ QUOTE ]

To use your anology KY isn't the fish we want.

In KY we're gathering bait to go fishing for that trophy catch.

KY is bait and a little bit of pratice to see how good of a fishermen we really are..........

You ever use a net to catch minnows or dig up your own worms?


D$D

[TheEngineer]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]


Why? We're ahead by almost 20 points. You don't use bait for fish you already caught.



[/ QUOTE ]

To use your anology KY isn't the fish we want.

In KY we're gathering bait to go fishing for that trophy catch.

KY is bait and a little pratice to see how good of fishermen we really are..........


D$D

[/ QUOTE ]

Which is what I believe we're doing.

[TheEngineer]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]


Why? We're ahead by almost 20 points. You don't use bait for fish you already caught.



[/ QUOTE ]

To use your anology KY isn't the fish we want.

In KY we're gathering bait to go fishing for that trophy catch.

KY is bait and a little bit of pratice to see how good of a fishermen we really are..........

You ever use a net to catch minnows or dig up your own worms?


D$D

[/ QUOTE ]

We're up by 20%. Should we shoot for 30%?

It seems you're trying to whip everyone up in support of running a big effort in KY while stating the PPA hasn't responded to your requests.

In the interests of full disclosure, shouldn't you share with us your interest in this race?

[DeadMoneyDad]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]


Why? We're ahead by almost 20 points. You don't use bait for fish you already caught.



[/ QUOTE ]

To use your anology KY isn't the fish we want.

In KY we're gathering bait to go fishing for that trophy catch.

KY is bait and a little pratice to see how good of fishermen we really are..........


D$D

[/ QUOTE ]

Which is what I believe we're doing.

[/ QUOTE ]

This will be my last public comment on this subject as I think I've wasted enough time on it. To be clear any effort in KY is a good thing. I am in no way casting dispersions on a single thing you or the PPA has done in KY or are planning on doing. I fully support the effort and stand willing to do everything I can afford to do in both time and volunteer services.

One of the major complaints the poker people and some of the pols I've spoken to is that they haven't seen any real concrete action from the PPA. The PPA as a NRA type grassroots force is a good PR effort only. KY politically, in my opinion like holding the stone cold nuts and the whole table was betting into you.

I pitched John a half dozen ideas or so about KY. Yes most involved some sort of resource commitment by the PPA. I fully believe that I could personally raise more money because of a "real" effort in KY than it would cost. The benefits of even a break-even effort budget wise in KY going into '08 are simply gravy. But it is the value of that gravy that is worth its weight in gold IMPO.

John has come in mid-year and is up to his ass in alligators. He has more on his plate than he can say grace over. I get it. I've tried to help him out with as many freebies as I can find, and any essential needs that I couldn't get free have always been offered or gotten at cost or below market value. I fully understand budget headaches. I’m not some high priced DC political consultant looking to make a quick buck off of poker or the PPA, if that is the way I come off sometimes.

You all know how much criticism I got for my admiration for John and the tough job he's agreed to take on that I got in this forum. My feelings are undiminished. It may not seem like it sometimes but I have the same admiration for your efforts TE.

We both have the same passion for the ultimate goal of legal poker; we simply disagree on the strategy in one of the steps we take in getting there. I am in this for the long haul. There will be thousands of steps and decisions to be made in the next year alone.

I don't mean to be rude, but as a member of this forum and of the PPA, your comments on this matter both public and private have the tone of "go away kid you're bothering me!"

If I've read too much into your tone or you into mine, I suggest we drop this matter and move on. I see this whole issue as potentially another lost opportunity for the PPA.

"But I don't own the train, I don't get to drive it, I don't even get to blow the whistle, but if it jumps the tracks......"


D$D

[TheEngineer]

[ QUOTE ]
This will be my last public comment on this subject as I think I've wasted enough time on it. To be clear any effort in KY is a good thing......

[/ QUOTE ]

I appreciate your disclosure of the fact that you're looking for PPA to hire you to do this work in KY. When you have a financial interest in an outcome, it's best for everyone here for you to come clean with it, so advocacy of a particular position isn't misconstrued.

Your comments on the past performance of the PPA are not without merit. I imagine everyone here felt PPA didn't do enough in the past. We're looking forward to them moving beyond that now. I hope they're successful.

We are holding the stone cold nuts in KY. However, our opponents are not betting into us. This is good for us, I think, for reasons I mentioned earlier. I don't claim to be an experienced political strategist...this is just consistent with my personal vision of how we can best use the results of this race. It's certainly open to debate and discussion.

I agree we should do a lot here...it's just that we have to ensure we do it right. In other words, we can have a 5,000 person march, but not a 20 person one. On that topic, I've not personally rejected any of your ideas.

As for my tone with you, I'm the only one who stuck up for you when you joined here. I had no issues until you got upset that I didn't respond to your two-page, 668 word Sunday afternoon PM within a few hours. Most people would expect a reply to take a day, especially for a Sunday PM. I was replying to you that (Sunday) evening. Seriously, you can't PM someone with

[ QUOTE ]
Well?

[/ QUOTE ]

and

[ QUOTE ]
yeah and you walked in over 1/2 an hour before......

[/ QUOTE ]

(both PMs in their entirety) and expect happy results. I do work full time, play poker almost full time, and work on this advocacy full time. I was entitled to go to the gym and to spend a little time with my wife, not to mention getting some tables fired up. After all, I had just finished a press release on the KY effort right before that.

Just because I cut-and-pasted an article to this board while I was eating dinner in front of my computer (not as sad as it sounds....my laptop is wireless and in my living room) doesn't mean I was in a position to take the time to type out a worthy reply at that particualr moment.

I appreciate your enthusiasm, and I'll gladly work with you on whatever PPA decides to fund if you can chill out a just a little, especially on Sunday evenings.

Cheers,

TE

[DeadMoneyDad]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
This will be my last public comment on this subject as I think I've wasted enough time on it. To be clear any effort in KY is a good thing......

[/ QUOTE ]

I appreciate your disclosure of the fact that you're looking for PPA to hire you to do this work in KY. When you have a financial interest in an outcome, it's best for everyone here for you to come clean with it, so advocacy of a particular position isn't misconstrued.

[/ QUOTE ]

As I've posted publically and privately, the resources required for any KY plan I pitched to John were break even at their worst. Since you're challenging my movties and posted selected parts of PM's you've forced me to respond.

When John asked me for a rough budget for KY, while we were walking down the street by the way, I commented it would be cheaper than whatever the PPA's portion of 6~8 of the PS $5,000 freerolls that had been running that previous Sunday. I was just pulling a rough figure out of my head and making a statement of what I thought the value of the freeroll sign-up were to the PPA is comparision.

In all of our 3 hour discussion the KY "budget" came up once more and it was my impression that if John was interested further he'd get back to me on it.

The PPA has anounced that it is looking to hire 2 positions, both of which are well below my salary history. John told me his desires for both positions. I expressed my opinion that he needed both of these positions covered a month ago, given the KY race, the UIGEA Anniversary, and other ongoing projects.

I offered to volunteer to help with sorting resumes and setting up the interviews for John. He jokingly asked if I was trying to pull a Cheney, run the selection process and conclude I was the best qualified. I honestly replied that if he found a better qualified candidate cheaper I wouldn't feel bad at all as IMPO that is the best for poker.

Given the "campaign clock" that ticks so loudly in my head. I offered to take either job that was already on the table and submit a letter of resigination before starting so he would have no trouble firing me with out cause at any time. My reasoning to John was just the 3~4 weeks he was planning on the hiring process to take, was so valuible to the KY and UIGEA projects, the lost opportunity costs were too great IMPO.

After our meeting I again offered to simply volunteer in the office some amount of hours and or days chosen by him. In the mean time I have gone out and tried a few outreach ideas to see if they would work as well as I thought they would. Based on those meetings I became more convinced that I could run a KY effort at a monetairy profit for the PPA not me, and lay the ground work '08, and magnify any KY political credit 100 fold. How many points Erinie looses by is meaningless!

What is meaningful is showing Congress and the National parties we can operate as an effective grassroots operation, or at least are trying!

[ QUOTE ]
Your comments on the past performance of the PPA are not without merit. I imagine everyone here felt PPA didn't do enough in the past. We're looking forward to them moving beyond that now. I hope they're successful.

We are holding the stone cold nuts in KY. However, our opponents are not betting into us. This is good for us, I think, for reasons I mentioned earlier. I don't claim to be an experienced political strategist...this is just consistent with my personal vision of how we can best use the results of this race. It's certainly open to debate and discussion.

[/ QUOTE ]

All of my comments and suggestions are offered in that spirit only. I have never gone to the PPA looking for new money. In each and every case I was willing to either take the money already on the table or work for free. How much of an idiot would I be if I passed on an open job offer I was over qualified for in the process? My wife is already pissed at me for giving away my "milk" when the PPA is in the market for a "cow".

[ QUOTE ]
I agree we should do a lot here...it's just that we have to ensure we do it right. In other words, we can have a 5,000 person march, but not a 20 person one. On that topic, I've not personally rejected any of your ideas.

[/ QUOTE ]

Forget marches and letter writing campaigns. Their value in impact compared to headaches IMPO are close to nil. Look at how the NRA would apporach KY or the UIGEA event. John wants to make a PR impact and spend as little as possible. Think outside the box here. Long term for the organization it needs to do two things; convince the poker community the PPA is worth their time and effort, and get more DUES paying members. You do that convincing the pols is very easy. I call it the "you build it they will come" theory of politics. You give most 1/2 way motivated Americans any 1/2 decent reason for getting off their butts and 200% will show up. Word of mouth and concrete activities are the keys.

I don't discuss private messages in a public forum. But in my defense I did tell you I thought you had been on 2+2 over 2 hours. I told you my school of thought is to check private messages before reading public ones, let alone posting something. I also sent you a full apology that you may not have seen because you told me not to PM you any more.

Go ahead and question my motives, take your best shot. I'll defend every action public and private and show not once were my action much more in the interests of poker even to the detrement of my personal life.

Who the hell got those 10,000 bumper stickers for cost?

I don't mind doing everything I can in my power to the very limits of my bankroll to help poker, but don't ever accuse me of trying to run a fixed game.


D$D

[Legislurker]

I agree with DoD, anything spent in Kentucky in a positive, straightforward way would more than pay for itself. If the PPA spent 10k in Kentucky, increased membership beyond online freerolls, and got Mason's nod, I think 2p2ers would step forward with 100k or more. Granted Im not an expert, but Im not conflicted interest wise at all beyond needing certainty I can make a living online. Lol, I'll even volunteer to go on the road with D$D to every bar league and riverboat in America at cost signing people up and handing out keychains and bumper stickers. IF I think theres a concrete, legit effort behind me to make a friendly environment for any aboveboard company going. If it doesn't pay for itself by Christmas, call it off.

[Tuff_Fish]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
How would the NRA reach out to non-NRA folks?

How many PPA members are there in KY?

How do you get them all in one place at one time?

How do you persuade them to get busy and make "positive noise?

Tuff

[/ QUOTE ]

Why? We're ahead by almost 20 points. You don't use bait for fish you already caught.

The anti-poker folks aren't going to rally around anyone as tainted as Fletcher. Even they can see through the real purpose of his campaign of distraction. I personally think we're best letting this election run its course without encouraging or getting any resistance from FoF-types. With this, we'll claim victory while showing everyone that Fletcher's anti-gaming message wasn't enough to fire anyone up

---------------------

One of the ideas I had in mind was to show that Fletcher's antigaming message fired up poker players. We can stay on message that poker is not gambling and also show that inhibiting our rights can be costly. Everyone knows who the NRA is, and they know exactly how the NRA would react if Fletcher's stance was anti gun instead of anti gambling. (Wouldn't happen in KY, but you get the point) Hardly anyone, political or not, knows about the PPA. My thought was that we get some credit for what is surely going to happen. I wasn't worrying we needed to ring doorbells because our candidate needs extra help.


-----------------------
The risk we take of putting together a 30-person march is that some churches will get together to march against gaming -- not in support of Fletcher, but in response to the pro-gaming march. Then, we'll still win, but politicians will see that the die-hards were somewhat responsive to the message. You all know I'm not normally the type who says we should be quiet for fear of arousing the opposition, but this is a special case where we shouldn't interfere with the train wreck.

We do need to show what we did. So far, I sent an email to every PPA member in KY, urging them to send a letter to Gov. Fletcher and to their state reps. I also sent out a press release announcing our advocacy. After the election, we'll do the same, asking PPA members to write to Congress, stating that the voters have spoken. We'll also have bumper stickers and other advocacy. We're also discussing how we'll handle exit polling.

[/ QUOTE ]

There are political types all over KY right now. I am thinking we need a bit of physical presence to go with the press releases and letters. Doesn't necessarilly need to be a march. A hundred "information booths" set up at various places across the state would get the same effect. Or maybe a "poker show" ala "gun shows" Or something....

Tuff

[Legislurker]

You want to bring up the NRA and what they do. The statement you haven't been to a gun show was NOT a joke. Those are HUGE events filled with political activists. The local countryside/trailer parks empty out and they bring the wife and kids. They go to booths, get propaganda, get registered to vote, and learn who to vote for. Its altogether as scary as FoF on some levels. Im a believer in the 2nd Amendment, but modern weaponry in these people's hands is scary. The idea of a poker show I kinda like. Really. If we had the sites MAKE their paid pros tour around the country hosting CHARITY tourneys in major election markets it would pay for itself as well. Tell the United Way FoF is on the OTHER side they would partner with you. The NRA is iffy, though not hostile. Maybe the Yellow Ribbon Fund(group Colbert sold his cast to). We need the American poker stars on board and Im sure the turnout would be huge. Let them sell books and lectures. Might have to fly them in and out so no embarassing cash game arrests.

[oldbookguy]

OK, to get in on the action in KY, first, those in KY & PPA need pull up Basher's campain finance report, see who in the gaming business is backing him, there should be reports filed by now.

Then contact them FORMALLY via PPA offer help, assistance whatever leg work they need done. Promote this activity via e-mails to KY PPA members and the press.

obg

[TheEngineer]

[ QUOTE ]
Since you're challenging my movties and posted selected parts of PM's you've forced me to respond.

[/ QUOTE ]

I didn't question your motives. I'm sure your motives are honest. I did applaud your complete disclosure of your interests.

Also, I didn't post selected parts of your PMs. I posted them in their entirety.

[TheEngineer]

[ QUOTE ]
I agree with DoD, anything spent in Kentucky in a positive, straightforward way would more than pay for itself. If the PPA spent 10k in Kentucky, increased membership beyond online freerolls, and got Mason's nod, I think 2p2ers would step forward with 100k or more. Granted Im not an expert, but Im not conflicted interest wise at all beyond needing certainty I can make a living online. Lol, I'll even volunteer to go on the road with D$D to every bar league and riverboat in America at cost signing people up and handing out keychains and bumper stickers. IF I think theres a concrete, legit effort behind me to make a friendly environment for any aboveboard company going. If it doesn't pay for itself by Christmas, call it off.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree that we want to do the right things in KY as well. That's why I brought up the race in the first place. It's awesome for us.

Everyone: If you have ideas for KY, please post them here or PM me.

[Merkle]

There is somethingh to be said for the overkill approach suggested by D$D. If we make a STRONG public showing here we are going to be associated with the winning candidate and will get some credit for contributing to his win and being active for our cause.

If we wait for a "close" race where we need to make a showing and our candiate loses... well back to the drawing board and a lot of loss credibility.

With out knowing all the facts it does sound like a limited risk to make a stand in Ky with potentially huge benefits. Why would we think the next opportunity will be this good?

[Berge20]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

In this fight, it is likely too late, but the PPA needs to partner with the pro gaming concerns.

obg

[/ QUOTE ]

Well it is getting late, but it is not too late. I've done a lot with candidates behind at this point. No I don't think even I could save Ernie, but I could put some life in his campaign and avoid a total embarasment for the GOP in KY.


D$D

[/ QUOTE ]

Hot damn son, who are ya?!? Lord knows in this buisness we all have big heads and for the right price you can do about anything--but that's quite a statement, especially in mid-September, in that race! /images/graemlins/smile.gif

Back to more of the issue at hand. D$D has hit the nail on the head several times. From an advocacy perspective, the PPA or the online poker community at large must be able to show that it is capable of inserting itself successfully into a political contest.

The KY race is probably the best possible scenario to cut your teeth on given its dynamics. The issue of gambling is already framed (at least trying to be) front and center by one of the candidates. That's probably as close to online gambling will ever be in a statewide race.

It is an off cycle (if there really is such a thing anymore) year, so there is more oxygen for politics in the media and with people in general.

Now, the bottom line is the question. How many resources are available and should be devoted to the race? What are the tangible results of those efforts? What are the potential downsides of getting significantly involved?

[TheEngineer]

[ QUOTE ]
There is somethingh to be said for the overkill approach suggested by D$D. If we make a STRONG public showing here we are going to be associated with the winning candidate and will get some credit for contributing to his win and being active for our cause.

If we wait for a "close" race where we need to make a showing and our candiate loses... well back to the drawing board and a lot of loss credibility.

With out knowing all the facts it does sound like a limited risk to make a stand in Ky with potentially huge benefits. Why would we think the next opportunity will be this good?

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree that we should be working hard here in KY. Again, that's the whole reason I brought it up for us. Let's get some specific ideas together on what we think we can do.

[Merkle]

[ QUOTE ]
One of the major complaints the poker people and some of the pols I've spoken to is that they haven't seen any real concrete action from the PPA.
D$D

[/ QUOTE ]

I want to make it clear that I do not usually critizise unless I have a suggestion to correct the problem. I have stated before I am not a member of PPA (and from statements on this board I am not the only 2+2 forum reader that is not a member) I have not even bothered to make their web page a favorite because I haven't seen much useful info there when I have visited it. TE's individual efforts have far out stripped the PPA's and have occassionally motivated me to follow his action plans. But to sum it up "The PPA hasn't shown me anything", if they are "doing things behind the scenes" that is great, but not very motivating for casual observers who do not see these efforts.

D$D quote at the top sums it up for a lot people I believe. If fairly hard core players such as 2+2 readers haven't joined PPA is it any surprise that casual players haven't stepped up?

Again, without being aware of all the facts (D$D's credintals, PPA's resources, etc...) and in light of my total inexperience in the political arena I don't feel qualified to make suggestions in this field. But anytime I am required to deal with situations outside my expertise I seek professional help and I'm willing to pay for it.

To sum it up D$D is right in that casual players need to see positive action before justifying donating time and money. My gut instinct feels like he is correct about ROI as far as the KY race goes. BUT that is only my instinct. If this was my personal problem to deal with I would find a professional qualified to analyse the situation and listen to his summation of the pros and cons on how to proceed coupled with a risk vs reward analysis.

PS
TE the letter writing campaigns and phone calls are great, but you were getting that done without the PPA. Yes, they may have giving you a greater pool of people to work with; but face it, that was zero effort and expense on their part to provide access to their membership lists. I do not perceive these actions as PPA's, they are the results of your work and efforts. Plus while these are great efforts, again their results are not measurable or observable by casual citizens.

[adelaidecrows02]

I am posting this for D$D who is having difficulty logging in - it is a cut and paste from an email:

For some reason I can not log on to 2+2. I’ve tried resetting my password twice, creating a new account, going to a wi-fi location for a fresh IP location, deleting cookies and history and creating a new account all without success. If I believed in skull&bones type conspiracies ……………..



My personal motives concerning a possible personal effort in KY have been severely questioned.



I’m willing to write a check with my mouth that I’m willing to cash with my ass.



Here are the T&C.



I’ll go to KY on my own dime and do everything I suggest and hope to get paid if anything on the backend.



The lowest possible cost to the PPA or staking individual or group would be a modest per diem. I’m thinking of something like $100.00 per day or less. This is only paid on the backend on something like less than a budget break-even effort, straight new money in versus dollars out. If I manage the success I suggest then some sort of backend sliding scale based on some portion of my “imagined” worth.



All requests for campaign trash and potential use of poker celebrities are on an individual each event risk reward basis solely determined by my “owners/backers.”



Any payments to me have to be through a non-profit, corporation, or cash. A good health plan is worth a deep discount.

All donations collected in new money to the PPA or some non-profit entity. I want no part of them directly and no part of cash donations. I’m willing to collect them in the name or collection for a staker to do with as they choose. I have no interest in a board seat.



My general out line is some sort of sliding scale of performance versus reward. That is if I raise x times and outlay (ROI) I get consideration up to or above my imagined market rate.



This offer expires in 48 hours. I’m tired of dicking around with this. By the time I can be in KY we will have lost almost 2 weeks 25% of the remaining time before Election Day. I will not go to KY under these terms and loose this up coming weekend. IMPO I need to be there Friday morning. If we go past that the deal, is going to get more expensive.



I’d love to go out and play on my own dime and hope to reap my “rewards” in the poker after life, but my wife will not let me go out and play on those terms.



I do not want a gold plated contract; I’m willing to work on a hand shake basis.



Feel free to PM me for e-mail or phone contact.



D$D

[TheEngineer]

[ QUOTE ]
TE the letter writing campaigns and phone calls are great, but you were getting that done without the PPA. Yes, they may have giving you a greater pool of people to work with; but face it, that was zero effort and expense on their part to provide access to their membership lists. I do not perceive these actions as PPA's, they are the results of your work and efforts. Plus while these are great efforts, again their results are not measurable or observable by casual citizens.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks! I'm glad we were able to all work together to put our position forward. As for PPA, I'm working with them because I do want them to be more productive. In fact, I demand results.

I don't do this for the credit or for any other personal reason, so who gets credit for what with has no bearing on my interest. My interest begins and ends with us gaining a proper legal definition for Internet poker within America. As the ability to leverage this through the size of PPA will likely improve our chances of improvement, my decision to work with them (while holding them accountable) was a no-brainer.

[TheEngineer]

[ QUOTE ]
My personal motives concerning a possible personal effort in KY have been severely questioned.

[/ QUOTE ]

No they haven't.


[ QUOTE ]
This offer expires in 48 hours. I’m tired of dicking around with this. By the time I can be in KY we will have lost almost 2 weeks 25% of the remaining time before Election Day. I will not go to KY under these terms and loose this up coming weekend. IMPO I need to be there Friday morning. If we go past that the deal, is going to get more expensive.

[/ QUOTE ]

D$D has a unique approach to getting work. I've never personally gone to a potential employer and demanded to be hired. This must be a new approach.

Likewise, I've never demanded that my PMs on the subject be replied to immediately.

D$D makes some good points, but he seems like a bull in a china shop so far.

[MiltonFriedman]

"The anti-poker folks aren't going to rally around anyone as tainted as Fletcher. Even they can see through the real purpose of his campaign of distraction. I personally think we're best letting this election run its course without encouraging or getting any resistance from FoF-types."

Very good advice. TE is from Kentucky, take his word for the local outlook.

[MiltonFriedman]

LOL, He ain't Karl Rove

To the bottom line issue: While running up the score is impressive, I think that Ky is likely to be read as:

An indicted Governor, with a spotty record, cannot ride a single issue, "anti-gambling", to redemption. This is not going to be a PPA "victory", but rather a "corruption" loss. The PPA should claim as much as it can, like with Rep. Leach, but a "rally" would be difficult to coordinate and potentially embarassing.

[Legislurker]

At some point we are going to have to have a rally.

[Tuff_Fish]

[ QUOTE ]
At some point we are going to have to have a physical presence.

[/ QUOTE ]

[DeadMoneyDad]

[ QUOTE ]
LOL, He ain't Karl Rove

To the bottom line issue: While running up the score is impressive, I think that Ky is likely to be read as:

An indicted Governor, with a spotty record, cannot ride a single issue, "anti-gambling", to redemption. This is not going to be a PPA "victory", but rather a "corruption" loss. The PPA should claim as much as it can, like with Rep. Leach, but a "rally" would be difficult to coordinate and potentially embarassing.

[/ QUOTE ]

No I am not Karl Rove nor have I ever claimed to be him.

I have worked in his campaigns and been trained by his people.

This isn’t a discussion about me, or it should not be IMPO.

It is about the pros and cons of various actions the PPA might take in KY and what the possible rewards versus the risks in time, effort, and credibility.

The standard thinking seems to be, let Ernie continue to self destruct and take whatever inexpensive credit there is in the end for the taking.

Yes on the surface this seems like the safe bet. Given that the PPA is a young organization undergoing a recent change with new “management” and not all of its people are in place and a dozen other efforts underway, I fully understand the thinking.

Karl Rove or not, I did learn from him the value of building and testing your core people, and preparing for the next fight(s). Karl Rove learned the hard way that trying the same political move over and over works about as well in politics as it does in poker.

Lets look a head a little politically.

Ernie looses and what is next in KY besides a Governor with a promise to put gambling on the ballot. With gambling in KY a coin flip at best given current polling, how is that ballot issue going to play in ’08? Mitch McConnell might be a lot of things but politically brain dead isn’t one of them. Beshear wins do you think McConnell and the KYGOP is going to oppose the gambling issue on the ballot or welcome all the FoF type money and support to actively push for the ballot referendum in ‘08? Why do you think no one stopped Ernie’s trust me not the voters move? Do you imagine the RNC, the KYGOP, and Mitch are all collectively political morons?

Now what is the value of seeing if we as an organization can talk and chew gum?
How well do we know who can do the heavy lifting in KY besides TE?
Where are our political handbooks, practical knowledge, and on the ground hard earned experience?
Do we start the KY effort from scratch next year sometime or spend a little effort now getting ready for the real fight? This is the real question.

What is our credibility when we go to the membership and ask for donations to fight the KY ballot issue while trying to pick off as many poker foes in a nationwide effort in ‘08? What track record do we have to hang or hat on let alone pass the hat?

KY is our easy training ground, a pre-season meaningless game where you play all of the rookies and free agents to see who you want on your team for the real season the games that count
.
When Safe and Secure or some other pro-gambling lobby claims we are only an on-line poker group ready to throw all the others under the bus for our own interests where are we with the B&M money?


Why do I bother? I love poker and hate to have to pay extra to play on-line at home. I also hope to have a strong enough organization to address the completely unfair poker TAXES!!


D$D

[DeadMoneyDad]

[ QUOTE ]
I am posting this for D$D who is having difficulty logging in - it is a cut and paste from an email:


I wish I could delete it from the server but.....


D$D

[/ QUOTE ]


I apologize to anyone I offended with the tone of this post.

I was using an old laptop partly on the road and in error messed up the internal clock, which locked me out of 2+2.

This was my fourth or fifth attempt to post a genuine offer of as free as possible help to the PPA effort as possible.

As I told John when we met I know the pressures of campaign budgets, balancing multiple priorities and ever ending suggestions of "seasoned advice." I've been on both sides of that desk.

After a number of personal and private outreach efforts on the PPA's behalf I became so convinced that I could raise some multiple of what ever I spent on what I call "campaign trash, because after every event or election all of this expensive material is just that trash that someone has to clean up, that on simply a straight dollar basis it would be a win for the PPA in new money donations and intro member conversions.

A little back ground on me. I'm and entrepreneur over 80% of my adult life has been spent in jobs that were straight commission, draw versus commission, and a few base plus jobs. The thought of putting out my efforts and asking for nothing unless I reach a certain goal is so ingrained in me I think it is normal. I forget the vast majority of the population thinks I'm insane to work with out a "net."

Enter the computer problems. Thanks to all the good people at 2+2 they managed to for the most part fix my self-inflicted computer meltdown. Now if they were only so good in fixing the self-inflicted communication melt down.

I spent hours trying various ways to try and post what in my mind was a perfectly reasonable offer of service. With each reboot, clearing of cookies, and re-writing my desire to get on with it or over it (KY involvement) my straight forward salesman to sales manager voice forgot my usual middle child ability to see things from both sides.

I ended up with a post cut and pasted by a friend 1/2 way around the world in its worst iteration of five versions.

I apologized to John as I had sent him a version and of course did not receive the favorable reply I expected, I had told him I would not post it until we had talked further. Of course by then my friend in not only a different time zone but past the International Date Line was out of reach, but he had faithfully posted the message as promised.

My computer problems got so bad earlier I thought my offer of free rides in the PPA forum had been deleted as an official FU by the PPA.

As I told John this time of year when the leaves start to change the internal election clock ticks very loudly for me. As I posted somewhere else these are the days where you often put in a week of 20 hour days to eek out those 3~5 percentage points that are out there for the effort. There is something that happens or happened at least to me when you are on the loosing end of a campaign by 1%. You look back on every decision and every wasted minute and ask would this or that made the difference on Election Day.

I still think there are vast opportunities in KY, the future benefits of the training alone are staggering in their value considering we have a much tougher fight on our hand with the promised gambling ballot initiative next year let alone getting ready to try and pick off a few foes.

I imagine I lost all opportunity to go play in KY.

As my dad liked to say "c'est la vie, what ever will be will be",

D$D

[whangarei]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I am posting this for D$D who is having difficulty logging in - it is a cut and paste from an email:


I wish I could delete it from the server but.....


D$D

[/ QUOTE ]


I apologize to anyone I offended with the tone of this post.


[/ QUOTE ]

Holy crap! I would have laid 50-1 that was a gimmick post.

[TheEngineer]

[ QUOTE ]
LOL, He ain't Karl Rove

To the bottom line issue: While running up the score is impressive, I think that Ky is likely to be read as:

An indicted Governor, with a spotty record, cannot ride a single issue, "anti-gambling", to redemption. This is not going to be a PPA "victory", but rather a "corruption" loss. The PPA should claim as much as it can, like with Rep. Leach, but a "rally" would be difficult to coordinate and potentially embarassing.

[/ QUOTE ]

It should also read that he tried to rally anti-gaming forces against a clearly pro-gaming challenger, but was ignored by the anti-gaming folks, which is really the vision I had when I suggested this. Imagine the NRA sitting out a race where an anti-gunner was going to crush the pro-Second Amendment candidate, where the race was only about guns? This should go a long way toward showing the fence-sitting politicians who think opposing gaming is motherhood and apple pie that they may wish to rethink that....especially the local ones.

As for rallying, I agree with you. If we're going anywhere this year, I'd really hope we'd choose D.C., where we can really make a difference, over a race where the challenger is up 17 percentage points. 50 people in KY will be a flop and a failure. We'd have to have 500 or more people marching every single weekend before we'd be noticed at all here. Conversely, 50 in D.C. will be an astounding success.

[TheEngineer]

[ QUOTE ]
At some point we are going to have to have a physical presence.

[/ QUOTE ]

Let's start in D.C. and go from there (look forward to meeting you, your wife, Legislurker, and anyone else who can join us).

[DeadMoneyDad]

[ QUOTE ]
LOL, He ain't Karl Rove

To the bottom line issue: While running up the score is impressive, I think that Ky is likely to be read as:

An indicted Governor, with a spotty record, cannot ride a single issue, "anti-gambling", to redemption. This is not going to be a PPA "victory", but rather a "corruption" loss. The PPA should claim as much as it can, like with Rep. Leach, but a "rally" would be difficult to coordinate and potentially embarassing.

[/ QUOTE ]

No I am not Karl Rove nor have I ever claimed to be him.

I have worked in his campaigns and been trained by his people.

This isn’t a discussion about me, or it should not be IMPO.

It is about the pros and cons of various actions the PPA might take in KY and what the possible rewards versus the risks in time, effort, and credibility.

The standard thinking seems to be, let Ernie continue to self destruct and take whatever inexpensive credit there is in the end for the taking.

Yes on the surface this seems like the safe bet. Given that the PPA is a young organization undergoing a recent change with new “management” and not all of its people are in place and a dozen other efforts underway, I fully understand the thinking.

Karl Rove or not, I did learn from him the value of building and testing your core people, and preparing for the next fight(s). Karl Rove learned the hard way that trying the same political move over and over works about as well in politics as it does in poker.

Lets look a head a little politically.

Ernie looses and what is next in KY besides a Governor with a promise to put gambling on the ballot. With gambling in KY a coin flip at best given current polling, how is that ballot issue going to play in ’08? Mitch McConnell might be a lot of things but politically brain dead isn’t one of them. Beshear wins do you think McConnell and the KYGOP is going to oppose the gambling issue on the ballot or welcome all the FoF type money and support to actively push for the ballot referendum in ‘08? Why do you think no one stopped Ernie’s trust me not the voters move? Do you imagine the RNC, the KYGOP, and Mitch are all collectively political morons?

Now what is the value of seeing if we as an organization can talk and chew gum?
How well do we know who can do the heavy lifting in KY besides TE?
Where are our political handbooks, practical knowledge, and on the ground hard earned experience?
Do we start the KY effort from scratch next year sometime or spend a little effort now getting ready for the real fight? This is the real question.

What is our credibility when we go to the membership and ask for donations to fight the KY ballot issue while trying to pick off as many poker foes in a nationwide effort in ‘08? What track record do we have to hang or hat on let alone pass the hat?

KY is our easy training ground, a pre-season meaningless game where you play all of the rookies and free agents to see who you want on your team for the real season the games that count
.
When Safe and Secure or some other pro-gambling lobby claims we are only an on-line poker group ready to throw all the others under the bus for our own interests where are we with the B&M money?

Why do I bother? I love poker and hate to have to pay extra to play on-line at home. I also hope to have a strong enough organization to address the completely unfair poker TAXES!!

D$D

[DeadMoneyDad]

[ QUOTE ]
50 people in KY will be a flop and a failure. We'd have to have 500 or more people marching every single weekend before we'd be noticed at all here. Conversely, 50 in D.C. will be an astounding success.

[/ QUOTE ]

50 people in D.C. is a success? I think I can deliver that many in volunteers to help run a little bit bigger event than that in D.C. Sorry that little tidbit was buried in my 688 word post you were to busy to read. You had time to count them? Also in my private message to you was; offers of chips, tables, cards, and experienced operators to run any poker social, custom printed casino quality poker chips at manufacture's cost thanks to Grasshopper's intro, all manner of campaign trash, banners, posters, etc (at or near cost). People from heads of licensed security firms, photographers, bonded drivers; you name it in quality volunteers.

All I've asked about UIGEA events is "what do you need that you don't already have." There hasn’t been one issue of travel expense in this effort! I live here.

50 people trying to pull off a rally is a waste of time anywhere. Those same 50 people calling every PPA member in KY to get their butts to a PPA sponsored or even semi-sponsored event?

Priceless.

50 people one night a week visiting local pub leagues or casinos signing up new members with a laptop an a little IT effort to process new paid members(no cash please)?

Money in the bank.

One semi known pro in a metropolitan market for the price of an over nighter, the ROI is 500+ people at a free PPA poker event with a decent percentage of new dues paying members.

The list of semi-reasonable outreach efforts in terms of building an organization that will cause the anti-gambling forces to crap their pants is endless.

Have a DC centric event and pat yourself on the back and try to build a grassroots advocacy group next year if you want when the anti's are out in force and already organized?

Political suicide IMPO.

The other pro gambling forces can out spend us unless we are the best game in town. There are others out there setting up games and convincing people on-line poker is willing to throw everyone else affected by the UIGEA under the bus. Have you read the articles on their sites? We show some muscle or at least basic grassroots organizational abilities in KY for B&M’s we at the very least get a seat at the table next year.

Just a bull in the china shop's opinion,


D$D

[DeadMoneyDad]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I am posting this for D$D who is having difficulty logging in - it is a cut and paste from an email:


I wish I could delete it from the server but.....


D$D

[/ QUOTE ]


I apologize to anyone I offended with the tone of this post.


[/ QUOTE ]

Holy crap! I would have laid 50-1 that was a gimmick post.

[/ QUOTE ]

Damn I wish I'd thought of that!!

Sorry folks who took a beating on that bet, what you see is what you get warts and all.

D$D

[TheEngineer]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
50 people in KY will be a flop and a failure. We'd have to have 500 or more people marching every single weekend before we'd be noticed at all here. Conversely, 50 in D.C. will be an astounding success.

[/ QUOTE ]

50 people in D.C. is a success? I think I can deliver that many in volunteers to help run a little bit bigger event than that in D.C. Sorry that little tidbit was buried in my 688 word post you were to busy to read. You had time to count them? Also in my private message to you was; offers of chips, tables, cards, and experienced operators to run any poker social, custom printed casino quality poker chips at manufacture's cost thanks to Grasshopper's intro, all manner of campaign trash, banners, posters, etc (at or near cost). People from heads of licensed security firms, photographers, bonded drivers; you name it in quality volunteers.

All I've asked about UIGEA events is "what do you need that you don't already have." There hasn’t been one issue of travel expense in this effort! I live here.

50 people trying to pull off a rally is a waste of time anywhere. Those same 50 people calling every PPA member in KY to get their butts to a PPA sponsored or even semi-sponsored event?

Priceless.

50 people one night a week visiting local pub leagues or casinos signing up new members with a laptop an a little IT effort to process new paid members(no cash please)?

Money in the bank.

One semi known pro in a metropolitan market for the price of an over nighter, the ROI is 500+ people at a free PPA poker event with a decent percentage of new dues paying members.

The list of semi-reasonable outreach efforts in terms of building an organization that will cause the anti-gambling forces to crap their pants is endless.

Have a DC centric event and pat yourself on the back and try to build a grassroots advocacy group next year if you want when the anti's are out in force and already organized?

Political suicide IMPO.

The other pro gambling forces can out spend us unless we are the best game in town. There are others out there setting up games and convincing people on-line poker is willing to throw everyone else affected by the UIGEA under the bus. Have you read the articles on their sites? We show some muscle or at least basic grassroots organizational abilities in KY for B&M’s we at the very least get a seat at the table next year.

Just a bull in the china shop's opinion,


D$D

[/ QUOTE ]

If you say so.

[DeadMoneyDad]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
50 people in KY will be a flop and a failure. We'd have to have 500 or more people marching every single weekend before we'd be noticed at all here. Conversely, 50 in D.C. will be an astounding success.

[/ QUOTE ]

50 people in D.C. is a success? I think I can deliver that many in volunteers to help run a little bit bigger event than that in D.C. Sorry that little tidbit was buried in my 688 word post you were to busy to read. You had time to count them? Also in my private message to you was; offers of chips, tables, cards, and experienced operators to run any poker social, custom printed casino quality poker chips at manufacture's cost thanks to Grasshopper's intro, all manner of campaign trash, banners, posters, etc (at or near cost). People from heads of licensed security firms, photographers, bonded drivers; you name it in quality volunteers.

All I've asked about UIGEA events is "what do you need that you don't already have." There hasn’t been one issue of travel expense in this effort! I live here.

50 people trying to pull off a rally is a waste of time anywhere. Those same 50 people calling every PPA member in KY to get their butts to a PPA sponsored or even semi-sponsored event?

Priceless.

50 people one night a week visiting local pub leagues or casinos signing up new members with a laptop an a little IT effort to process new paid members(no cash please)?

Money in the bank.

One semi known pro in a metropolitan market for the price of an over nighter, the ROI is 500+ people at a free PPA poker event with a decent percentage of new dues paying members.

The list of semi-reasonable outreach efforts in terms of building an organization that will cause the anti-gambling forces to crap their pants is endless.

Have a DC centric event and pat yourself on the back and try to build a grassroots advocacy group next year if you want when the anti's are out in force and already organized?

Political suicide IMPO.

The other pro gambling forces can out spend us unless we are the best game in town. There are others out there setting up games and convincing people on-line poker is willing to throw everyone else affected by the UIGEA under the bus. Have you read the articles on their sites? We show some muscle or at least basic grassroots organizational abilities in KY for B&M’s we at the very least get a seat at the table next year.

Just a bull in the china shop's opinion,


D$D

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If you say so.

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Well it is all I have been trying to say from the begining through my communication breakdown and now. I know it can be done pretty much for the asking.

D$D

[Tuff_Fish]

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At some point we are going to have to have a physical presence.

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Let's start in D.C. and go from there (look forward to meeting you, your wife, Legislurker, and anyone else who can join us).

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I am actually up for both. Mrs Fish has never been to KY either... /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

I disagree with D$D that 50 people in DC are wasted. Part of that trip will be to put our pointed heads together and brainstorm further actions. And 50 grassroots folks, as opposed to paid lobbyist types, are not going to go unnoticed.

I agree with D$D that we should try very hard to make a mark in the KY election. The purpose is not to claim that we helped elect Breshear, but to show that we show up and can be counted on to help or oppose candidates that we, A) like, B) dislike. Futhermore, our message is that poker is a skill game and we vehemently oppose restrictions on our right to participate.

I believe that is exactly what the NRA is all about. " We help our friends, and we are poison to those who would trample our rights "

It certainly would be helpful if the PPA could become a similar force. Won't happen overnight, but it can happen. And, I agree, that membership numbers are important. Committed activist members are even more important.


Tuff