Focus on the Family News...

[Uglyowl]

Interesting read on Dobson pushing the envelope of his tax exempt status in other areas. Also contributions up less than 1% annually forcing some layoffs. Hopefully this will continue.

Cleared by IRS and Layoffs due to Budget Shortfall (http://www.gazette.com/articles/focus_27140___article.html/million_organization.html)

[oldbookguy]

Nice, thanks for the link, I enjoyed a few fun posts there.
See OldBookGuy and Newly Confused Christian.

The latter was in response to a comment, Christians are NOT under the Old Testament, so, then, what about the Christians demanding displaying the 10 Commandments?

Ah, just shows the duality of the extemist Right's thinking process.

obg

[GabrielSlade]

lol. Now I know how the Muslim's feel when a few douchebags claim to speak for all Muslims. Please don't lump all "Christians" in with these tards.

I was a minister at a non-denom church until about a year ago and I could give two $hits whether or not the 10 commandments is displayed.

[Richas]

They employ 1205 people? What on earth (or in heaven) do they do? (Apart from banking donations to pay the wages obviously).

[Legislurker]

[ QUOTE ]
They employ 1205 people? What on earth (or in heaven) do they do? (Apart from banking donations to pay the wages obviously).

[/ QUOTE ]

I try to impress this. Modern day evangelical christianity is BIG BUSINESS. These people publish everything. Books, TV shows, movies, Sunday school packets, School texts, radio shows, and anything you can think of. They solicit money in donations as well. Dobson is RICH. They have political organizations as well. They are setting up a dual life structure. Christian this, christian that. They raise kids
who never go to school or the movies or see regulat TV. They are setting up a country within a country that reads the same things, watches the same media, and VOTES the same way. I get bitched at for calling them Nazis, but they want and crave power and uniformity. And they are doing it. Maybe you blue state people don't believe it or see it, but I see it on an everyday basis. They even have destination emigration areas inside the US for you to move to so they can saturate areas with "christian" communities. GWB will not be the end of their political malevolence. Even if numbers are declining and ageing, they are turning out a core of propaganda educated youth and uneducated older people who will vote as they are cajoled from the puplit.

[justaPlayer]

This is exactly what I see and it is FRIGHTENING. Well said.

[justaPlayer]

They are in some respects more firghtening than the Nazis.

[1p0kerboy]

[ QUOTE ]
The latter was in response to a comment, Christians are NOT under the Old Testament, so, then, what about the Christians demanding displaying the 10 Commandments?


[/ QUOTE ]

I haven't read anything in the link yet.

While I don't agree with some of FoF's weird views, I wanted to point out the following:

While Christians are not 'under' the old testament in the current age, nine out of ten of the old commandments were reiterated as part of the new covenant.

[oldbookguy]

Though many, myself included, main stream Christians understand this, here is the reply from a FoF poster, interesting and I add emphasis in bold areas:

Newly confused, I can see where the confusion comes in and I will try to wade in here. When Jesus came, he simplified the Ten Commandments by saying that there were two. They were to love God above all- the first commandment and love your neighbor as yourself. If, we as a world followed those two commands of love, we wouldn't need the others. If you loved you wouldn't murder, lie or cheat or hurt other people. I know this is a fairly simple explanation for a seemingly harder question. Now, if only we could just love. That really is the key. The Ten Commandments will alway be a good way to guide us. But if we all followed what Jesus said, this world would be a better place. Mark 12 29-31. No greater commands than these.


beliver - Sep 14, 2007 04:36:05 AM

So, seems we are down to two commandments.

Actually, my point was focused on the WONDER poster and the push by the Far right to post the 10 commandments in all public / governmental places and the posters statement of not being under the Old Testament, the duality of the position, no OT, except we want OT, sometimes.

obg

[DeadMoneyDad]

[ QUOTE ]
This is exactly what I see and it is FRIGHTENING. Well said.

[/ QUOTE ]

These self appointed prophets always seem really scary up and until, they crash and burn. Jim Jones, Tammy and Jimmy Baker, Swaggert, the list goes on and on. They come in waves. They are like light bulbs and manage to get really bright just before they burn out.

In the end they all end up drinking the Kool-aid.

Be it poison, drugs, little boys, prostitutes, or simple old fashioned excessive greed.

Thank God God has a sense of humor!

They want to post the 10 Commandment and in the end break more than half.


D$D

[Legislurker]

[ QUOTE ]
Though many, myself included, main stream Christians understand this, here is the reply from a FoF poster, interesting and I add emphasis in bold areas:

Newly confused, I can see where the confusion comes in and I will try to wade in here. When Jesus came, he simplified the Ten Commandments by saying that there were two. They were to love God above all- the first commandment and love your neighbor as yourself. If, we as a world followed those two commands of love, we wouldn't need the others. If you loved you wouldn't murder, lie or cheat or hurt other people. I know this is a fairly simple explanation for a seemingly harder question. Now, if only we could just love. That really is the key. The Ten Commandments will alway be a good way to guide us. But if we all followed what Jesus said, this world would be a better place. Mark 12 29-31. No greater commands than these.


beliver - Sep 14, 2007 04:36:05 AM

So, seems we are down to two commandments.

Actually, my point was focused on the WONDER poster and the push by the Far right to post the 10 commandments in all public / governmental places and the posters statement of not being under the Old Testament, the duality of the position, no OT, except we want OT, sometimes.

obg

[/ QUOTE ]

Im a Matthew Christian I guess, a bit of Mark. Matthew does
restate the Ten Commandments in his text word for word, and in the Sermon on the Mount, don't forget Christ said he did not abate one whit of the Law from the Old Testament. You can take that Sermon and you have all you need. I think your FoF guy when God says He gave the law so that ye may love one another(somewhere in Acts i think), but thats omitting its purpose. Namely, we don't live up to being made in God's image so we need some help. Those [censored] forget how hard a religion Christianity is, and only care about enforcing some sort of surface Christianity, not a genuine heartfelt internal one.
Sort of an Inquisition style one where sin is permitted and overlooked as long as you follow the forms laid out by the religious powers. Sham, fake, moneygrubbing whores pretty much sums up Focus on the Family. I think they joke about what sheep they have sway over and how much $$$$ its worth when no one is looking except their boy whores and coke dealer friends. FoF is a BUSINESS. Remember that when you read what they say, its so much easier to comprehend.

[ubercuber]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
They employ 1205 people? What on earth (or in heaven) do they do? (Apart from banking donations to pay the wages obviously).

[/ QUOTE ]

I try to impress this. Modern day evangelical christianity is BIG BUSINESS. These people publish everything. Books, TV shows, movies, Sunday school packets, School texts, radio shows, and anything you can think of. They solicit money in donations as well. Dobson is RICH. They have political organizations as well. They are setting up a dual life structure. Christian this, christian that. They raise kids
who never go to school or the movies or see regulat TV. They are setting up a country within a country that reads the same things, watches the same media, and VOTES the same way. I get bitched at for calling them Nazis, but they want and crave power and uniformity. And they are doing it. Maybe you blue state people don't believe it or see it, but I see it on an everyday basis. They even have destination emigration areas inside the US for you to move to so they can saturate areas with "christian" communities. GWB will not be the end of their political malevolence. Even if numbers are declining and ageing, they are turning out a core of propaganda educated youth and uneducated older people who will vote as they are cajoled from the puplit.

[/ QUOTE ]

Wow! You slammed a few reasonably good ideas with some broad statements!

Home School: Better idea than people realize, but not for everyone, blind leading blind etc.. Categorizing them as uneducated is not only an uninformed, albeit common misconception, but also an overestimation of the merits of public school. Parents that home school their kids take it very seriously and YES home school kids interact with other children. American public schools are churning out some of the dumbest kids on the planet... and those are the ones that finish. The percentage of home school kids that go to college compared to public school kids is (I don't remember the numbers, but very impressive).

TV: Seriously? I really don't know anybody that advocates for kids watching regular TV. Curbing this is simply responsible parenting.

Instilling your beliefs into your children: Pretty much universal, and a very separate thing from the brainwashing, pulpit voting scenario you describe.

Most Christians are just family oriented people who want to raise good kids and have some like minded friends... and as you stated, dollar signs for big business evangelism.

But don't throw out the Baby Jesus with the bath water! Many of these Christian nuts are producing caring, responsible, thinking adults.

[ubercuber]

[ QUOTE ]
Those [censored] forget how hard a religion Christianity is, and only care about enforcing some sort of surface Christianity, not a genuine heartfelt internal one.
Sort of an Inquisition style one where sin is permitted and overlooked as long as you follow the forms laid out by the religious powers. Sham, fake, moneygrubbing whores pretty much sums up Focus on the Family. I think they joke about what sheep they have sway over and how much $$$$ its worth when no one is looking except their boy whores and coke dealer friends. FoF is a BUSINESS. Remember that when you read what they say, its so much easier to comprehend.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is more like it!

[DeadMoneyDad]

[ QUOTE ]


But don't throw out the Baby Jesus with the bath water! Many of these Christian nuts are producing caring, responsible, thinking adults.

[/ QUOTE ]

As a self described Jesuit trained agnostic, mostly in a joke towards dogma, I love the line.

Just as only about 2% of the gamblers are problem gamblers they do seem to make up 50% of the news. I'd suggest that about the same precentages might apply to Christians.....

D$D

[Legislurker]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
They employ 1205 people? What on earth (or in heaven) do they do? (Apart from banking donations to pay the wages obviously).

[/ QUOTE ]

I try to impress this. Modern day evangelical christianity is BIG BUSINESS. These people publish everything. Books, TV shows, movies, Sunday school packets, School texts, radio shows, and anything you can think of. They solicit money in donations as well. Dobson is RICH. They have political organizations as well. They are setting up a dual life structure. Christian this, christian that. They raise kids
who never go to school or the movies or see regulat TV. They are setting up a country within a country that reads the same things, watches the same media, and VOTES the same way. I get bitched at for calling them Nazis, but they want and crave power and uniformity. And they are doing it. Maybe you blue state people don't believe it or see it, but I see it on an everyday basis. They even have destination emigration areas inside the US for you to move to so they can saturate areas with "christian" communities. GWB will not be the end of their political malevolence. Even if numbers are declining and ageing, they are turning out a core of propaganda educated youth and uneducated older people who will vote as they are cajoled from the puplit.

[/ QUOTE ]

Wow! You slammed a few reasonably good ideas with some broad statements!

Home School: Better idea than people realize, but not for everyone, blind leading blind etc.. Categorizing them as uneducated is not only an uninformed, albeit common misconception, but also an overestimation of the merits of public school. Parents that home school their kids take it very seriously and YES home school kids interact with other children. American public schools are churning out some of the dumbest kids on the planet... and those are the ones that finish. The percentage of home school kids that go to college compared to public school kids is (I don't remember the numbers, but very impressive).

TV: Seriously? I really don't know anybody that advocates for kids watching regular TV. Curbing this is simply responsible parenting.

Instilling your beliefs into your children: Pretty much universal, and a very separate thing from the brainwashing, pulpit voting scenario you describe.

Most Christians are just family oriented people who want to raise good kids and have some like minded friends... and as you stated, dollar signs for big business evangelism.

But don't throw out the Baby Jesus with the bath water! Many of these Christian nuts are producing caring, responsible, thinking adults.

[/ QUOTE ]

Home schooling by parents with little more than a HS diploma is a horrible idea. Home schooling with propaganda and field trips to see a faux Garden of Eden where Eve walks with dinosaurs is worse. Get a hold of some of their stuff and read it. Better yet, post it. Its fluff. Unimaginable
lies for a lot of it. I understand public schools blow, and one thing I live by reproductively is to always have enough money if I have kids to private school them. But, its no excuse to feed your kids lies, fail them in math education, and have almost no chance to get into top tier public/private universities. You may care about your kid, but you CANNOT shut the world out. Kids are smarter and have more persepctive than most people think. Hell, the best thing you can do to raise a good healthy kid is to watch South Park with them. The world isn't good or evil, its just how people are, and trying to put up a wall between it and a so-called "christian" world is downright abominable. Im not saying throw out Christianity, Im saying
follow it internally and don't try to enforce it externally and cheat it of its true nature.

[coachkf]

"Hell, the best thing you can do to raise a good healthy kid is to watch South Park with them."

That would definitely be a matter of opinion. ;]

I think South Park is like the "Beavis and Butthead" of my generation. Sadly, most of those types that I meet today (my brother in law is a prime example), are stocking groceries at Walmart on the graveyard shift.

Huh huh..huh huh...

Granted I'm not a regular South Park viewer, but my first thought would be that if you raised a kid on South Park, he'd be spitting in your face with regularity and calling you a stupid MF'er by age 13. Maybe sooner.

[Legislurker]

[ QUOTE ]
"Hell, the best thing you can do to raise a good healthy kid is to watch South Park with them."

That would definitely be a matter of opinion. ;]

I think South Park is like the "Beavis and Butthead" of my generation. Sadly, most of those types that I meet today (my brother in law is a prime example), are stocking groceries at Walmart on the graveyard shift.

Huh huh..huh huh...

Granted I'm not a regular South Park viewer, but my first thought would be that if you raised a kid on South Park, he'd be spitting in your face with regularity and calling you a stupid MF'er by age 13. Maybe sooner.

[/ QUOTE ]

You can't be more wrong. South Park is nothing like Beavis and Butthead. Well, both are animated. South Park is a lot more grounded in reality, morality, and honest discussion than any show on television. They may be surface funny to someone uninformed, but like Stewart and Colbert are more funny when you actually know the news, South Park is a lot more funny if you actually have an education. High Satire is probably the most difficult form of art to pull off, and I put Matt and Trey right up there with Swift.

[ubercuber]

Kids are not as smart as you are giving them credit for being. You should consider adding child development classes to your list of reproductive prerequisites, especially if you plan to continue critiquing the parenting choices of others.

I appreciate that you are planning on exposing your kids to high satire, but you might start with Monty Python and work your way up! Just an idea!

I suspect you are more making the point that erring on the side of South Park is more desirable that erring on the side of over sheltered, uneducated, and brainwashed. I would probably agree with that, but remain in disagreement with that as a general definition of the home schooled. I speak from personal experience, I know several families who who have done a great job.

Also, South Park is funny as hell.

[Legislurker]

[censored] child development classes. Dobson is one of those pseudo-scientists as well. Outside South Park, if I ever have kids, which I doubt, Ill be using Emile as my main guide. Supplemented with the right mixture of fairy tales, epic, and children's novels. Maybe for the apprenticeship phase of his education Ill let Hellmuth teach him poker.

[tarath]

watch jesus camp.

This is what OBG is talking about

Obviously like was said before this is a small craqzy group of people, the 2% that get 50% of the news but its a scary documentary of the type of stuff OBG is seeing.

[blutarski]

Homeschooling? The fringiest of the fringe (the '2 percenters' as described above) want NOTHING to do with education and intellect. A questioning personality, logic, worldly knowledge, are anathema to what they're peddling.

And I fear them. They have an armed, under-the-radar army now: Black Water. The owner's a religious kook and his mercenaries are no joke. Honest, I think they would be at GWB's disposal if he gave the word to stage a coup.

[DeadMoneyDad]

[ QUOTE ]
Homeschooling? The fringiest of the fringe (the '2 percenters' as described above) want NOTHING to do with education and intellect. A questioning personality, logic, worldly knowledge, are anathema to what they're peddling.

And I fear them. They have an armed, under-the-radar army now: Black Water. The owner's a religious kook and his mercenaries are no joke. Honest, I think they would be at GWB's disposal if he gave the word to stage a coup.

[/ QUOTE ]

We tried home schooling with one of our children for a year.

I'd be more worried about the number of idiots turned out of your average public school than I would for the number of "programed" extremist homeschoolers.


D$D

[ski]

[ QUOTE ]
They are in some respects more firghtening than the Nazis.

[/ QUOTE ]

yeah, except for the killing millions of innocent people part.

[ubercuber]

[ QUOTE ]

I'd be more worried about the number of idiots turned out of your average public school than I would for the number of "programed" extremist homeschoolers.


[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, something about assembling 2000 hormone crazed teenagers, mixing in drugs, alcohol, limited supervision, insufficient funding, and overcrowded classrooms doesn't scream "Recipe for Success".

Of course, throw in South Park episodes and maybe you've got something!

[Legislurker]

I think my issue is more with people who homeschool who have no business homeschooling. If you are stocking shelves at Wal Mart you got no business educating a kid on material from James Dobson. Nothing is wrong with well-off well-educated adults teaching their kids at home. You will probably buy real education material and attempt to teach your kid math science and reading. Not Eve tossing bread crumbs to dinosaurs.
Come on, most of us, if you have kids, can afford to live in a decent public school district. Totally failed high schools are easily avoidable if you have a job. Public school is bad , don't get me wrong, but the worst ones are easily avoidable, and they are a LOT better than the education you get from anyone dumb enough to belong to FoF.

[MiltonFriedman]

"They have an armed, under-the-radar army now: Black Water. The owner's a religious kook and his mercenaries are no joke."

They are a lot less "under-the-radar" this week. There are Senate hearings scheduled on privatization of the war.

Black Water and the like have lost 200+ employees. Where is OSHA ?

[coachkf]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
"Hell, the best thing you can do to raise a good healthy kid is to watch South Park with them."

That would definitely be a matter of opinion. ;]

I think South Park is like the "Beavis and Butthead" of my generation. Sadly, most of those types that I meet today (my brother in law is a prime example), are stocking groceries at Walmart on the graveyard shift.

Huh huh..huh huh...

Granted I'm not a regular South Park viewer, but my first thought would be that if you raised a kid on South Park, he'd be spitting in your face with regularity and calling you a stupid MF'er by age 13. Maybe sooner.

[/ QUOTE ]

You can't be more wrong. South Park is nothing like Beavis and Butthead. Well, both are animated. South Park is a lot more grounded in reality, morality, and honest discussion than any show on television. They may be surface funny to someone uninformed, but like Stewart and Colbert are more funny when you actually know the news, South Park is a lot more funny if you actually have an education. High Satire is probably the most difficult form of art to pull off, and I put Matt and Trey right up there with Swift.

[/ QUOTE ]

Can't disagree with you there. Satire is my favorite and what little South Park I have seen was brilliantly done. My point is that plopping a kid in front of it won't give him an appreciation for satire. He'll just learn a few new words.

I believe most of the South Park humor goes straight over the head of the vast majority of adult viewers for that matter, so the show might as well be Jackass: The Movie, for them.

[coachkf]

I know a lot of home schoolers, and I've seen some that I probably should have reported for screwing their kids up. On the other hand I've seen amazing results when parents do it right.

I think this is an area that it would help a lot to have a strict system in place requiring home schooled kids to come in at certain ages and take tests to measure where they are. If a kid can't read and he's supposed be in the 5th grade, then require the parents to enroll him in a regular school.

[Landlord79]

[ QUOTE ]
lol. Now I know how the Muslim's feel when a few douchebags claim to speak for all Muslims. Please don't lump all "Christians" in with these tards.

I was a minister at a non-denom church until about a year ago and I could give two $hits whether or not the 10 commandments is displayed.

[/ QUOTE ]

And we are surprised that you aren't still a preacher???

[Uglyowl]

Dobson won't back Thompson (http://www.denverpost.com/politics/ci_6943059)

The post was originally posted to show that Focus on the Family (a main enemy of ours) support is slowing.

[TheEngineer]

[ QUOTE ]
Dobson won't back Thompson (http://www.denverpost.com/politics/ci_6943059)

The post was originally posted to show that Focus on the Family (a main enemy of ours) support is slowing.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thompson moves up a notch in my book.

[BluffTHIS!]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Dobson won't back Thompson (http://www.denverpost.com/politics/ci_6943059)

The post was originally posted to show that Focus on the Family (a main enemy of ours) support is slowing.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thompson moves up a notch in my book.

[/ QUOTE ]


Engineer,

Remember that you are supposed to be getting us some info on Fred by asking Mr. Pappas to ask Sen. D'Amato to ask Fred. We really need to know this as quickly as possible. Because if Thompson is going to be for us, then it affects how repubs vote. Whoever Dr. Dobson is going to end up backing, most likely Romney or Brownback, is going to run best in the primaries against the most liberal repubs, like Giuliani. But those guys are going to run worst against Thompson who is as conservative as they are on most issues except social ones.

[TheEngineer]

[ QUOTE ]

Engineer,

Remember that you are supposed to be getting us some info on Fred by asking Mr. Pappas to ask Sen. D'Amato to ask Fred. We really need to know this as quickly as possible. Because if Thompson is going to be for us, then it affects how repubs vote. Whoever Dr. Dobson is going to end up backing, most likely Romney or Brownback, is going to run best in the primaries against the most liberal repubs, like Giuliani. But those guys are going to run worst against Thompson who is as conservative as they are on most issues except social ones.

[/ QUOTE ]

D'Amato endorsed Thompson as a private citizen, not as PPA president. Thompson's not made a public statement on the subject, pro or con.

[Legislurker]

Remember, Dobson has only ever endorsed Bush. Maybe, he is reluctant to be so burned again. He may be backing out of political endorsements. His homophobia is astounding.

[BluffTHIS!]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Engineer,

Remember that you are supposed to be getting us some info on Fred by asking Mr. Pappas to ask Sen. D'Amato to ask Fred. We really need to know this as quickly as possible. Because if Thompson is going to be for us, then it affects how repubs vote. Whoever Dr. Dobson is going to end up backing, most likely Romney or Brownback, is going to run best in the primaries against the most liberal repubs, like Giuliani. But those guys are going to run worst against Thompson who is as conservative as they are on most issues except social ones.

[/ QUOTE ]

D'Amato endorsed Thompson as a private citizen, not as PPA president. Thompson's not made a public statement on the subject, pro or con.

[/ QUOTE ]


I know. But since D'Amato knows him personally, and Mr. Pappas knows D'Amato, and you know Pappas . . . you should be able to find out for sure don't you think? Unless of course Thompson isn't for poker and Sen. D'Amato doesn't wish that to come out.

[TheEngineer]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Engineer,

Remember that you are supposed to be getting us some info on Fred by asking Mr. Pappas to ask Sen. D'Amato to ask Fred. We really need to know this as quickly as possible. Because if Thompson is going to be for us, then it affects how repubs vote. Whoever Dr. Dobson is going to end up backing, most likely Romney or Brownback, is going to run best in the primaries against the most liberal repubs, like Giuliani. But those guys are going to run worst against Thompson who is as conservative as they are on most issues except social ones.

[/ QUOTE ]

D'Amato endorsed Thompson as a private citizen, not as PPA president. Thompson's not made a public statement on the subject, pro or con.

[/ QUOTE ]


I know. But since D'Amato knows him personally, and Mr. Pappas knows D'Amato, and you know Pappas . . . you should be able to find out for sure don't you think? Unless of course Thompson isn't for poker and Sen. D'Amato doesn't wish that to come out.

[/ QUOTE ]

I asked, and that's the answer I was given.

I wasn't surprised. I don't imagine Thompson wants me to be the one to announce his position for him. I hope he'll come out for us, but I don't know his stand. I'm encouraged by his other stands in favor of federalism, and by Dobson's rejection of him.

[BluffTHIS!]

Engineer,

Thanks then. Now I'm not ragging on you because you're just the messenger, but that answer is very weak for more than one reason. In the first place it's not like Thompson's position on poker is a huge plank in his platform that he doesn't want let out until he can make a big deal of it. And in the second place, that distinction about Sen. D'Amato endorsing Thompson as a private citizen so as to deflect criticism if Thompson isn't for us is BS. As the president of the PPA he either should be endorsing someone pro-poker or abstaining from any endorsement. I mean how would it fly if the chairman of the board of the AFL/CIO endorsed an anti-union repub as a "private citizen"? I'll bet his job would only be good until the next board meeting.

[DeadMoneyDad]

[ QUOTE ]
Thanks then. In the first place it's not like Thompson's position on poker is a huge plank in his platform that he doesn't want let out until he can make a big deal of it.

[/ QUOTE ]

We read the FoF and anti-gambling sites; some of us even get their mail. Do you imagine that they don't do the same to us? Thompson's campaign is barely born, let alone walking and you want them to carry our water right now? The FoF saying it will not support Fred may or may not mean a lot considering other factors. But I am sure they would help almost anyone else in the primaries if Fred said much about strongly backing on-line gaming or even a simple convoluted statement only backing fully regulated games of skill.


[ QUOTE ]
And in the second place, that distinction about Sen. D'Amato endorsing Thompson as a private citizen so as to deflect criticism if Thompson isn't for us is BS.

[/ QUOTE ]

You need to look at this from both sides of political cover. I don't know for sure exactly how much D'Amato feels his personal political credibility is tied up in the PPA. Depending on that calculus I doubt he would throw the PPA under the bus for a personal friend, but I guess it is possible. I don't know Al personally; I haven't reached out to Friends of Fred’s who know him about this issue, so I have no personal information to share on this issue. I do have my own personal thoughts about Fred's potential help on this issue. Even if I knew from a personal conversation from Fred that, he was going to fully support on-line poker, and I had a signed written copy of the inevitable “First 100 Days 100 Issues” Inaugural or Transition press release to repeal the UIGEA I surely wouldn't disclose it at this point in his candidacy especially if it was in the top half of the list.


D$D

[Uglyowl]

Dobson seriously considering moving to 3rd party candidate (http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/04/opinion/04dobson.html?_r=1&ref=opinion&oref=slogin)

Rasmussen poll : Looks like it will help Dems alot (http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/27_of_republicans_would_vote_for_pro_life_third_pa rty_instead_of_giuliani)

[Cruzincat]

If Dobson were to throw his support behind a minor third party candidate, it will do more damage to his supposed power base that it will to the Republicans. Some of his followers will leave, because they realize there is no way a third party candidate could win.

[DeadMoneyDad]

[ QUOTE ]
Dobson seriously considering moving to 3rd party candidate (http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/04/opinion/04dobson.html?_r=1&ref=opinion&oref=slogin)


Rasmussen poll : Looks like it will help Dems alot (http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/27_of_republicans_would_vote_for_pro_life_third_pa rty_instead_of_giuliani)

[/ QUOTE ]



If he is stupid enough to do this he will elect Hillary in a Bill "landslide."


D$D<--seen this move at least once before

[Legislurker]

Dobson is still insisting on 100% backing of his war on queers. Youre either all nazi or not nazi in his book. Trying to dictate to a Rep nominee that they can't cross him on his turf. The soul of the Party is at stake, and maybe the Republican Party needs to die. Dobson could do freedom and America a favor by being its biggest enemy.

[DeadMoneyDad]

[ QUOTE ]
Dobson is still insisting on 100% backing of his war on queers. Youre either all nazi or not nazi in his book. Trying to dictate to a Rep nominee that they can't cross him on his turf. The soul of the Party is at stake, and maybe the Republican Party needs to die. Dobson could do freedom and America a favor by being its biggest enemy.

[/ QUOTE ]

As a life time Republican, one who can personally serprate church and state in his head, if the GOP can't wake up to this fact it deserves to die a slow painful death.

I shudder to think what might happen to the country overall, but we have survived much worse disasters than the death of a short sighted political party.


D$D<--actually third generation GOP'er

[TheEngineer]

[ QUOTE ]
Dobson is still insisting on 100% backing of his war on queers. Youre either all nazi or not nazi in his book. Trying to dictate to a Rep nominee that they can't cross him on his turf. The soul of the Party is at stake, and maybe the Republican Party needs to die. Dobson could do freedom and America a favor by being its biggest enemy.

[/ QUOTE ]

Perhaps we should send him some emails encouraging him to do this, at citizenlink@family.org .

[TheEngineer]

Also, I received an email from FoF today (in reply to an email I sent them asking why they think Internet horse race betting is okay, but poker is not). Check it out:

Dear Engineer:

Thank you for your e-mail to Focus on the Family. It’s my privilege to get back to you on behalf of our staff.

It was good of you to share your thoughts regarding Chad Hill’s “Internet Gambling Take Action” article. In doing so, you asked why Mr. Hill seems to be concerned about some forms of Internet gaming, but not all. Simply put, we feel that much of our efforts would be in vain if we “bit off more than we could chew” by addressing the entire gambling industry at once. All forms combined, gambling is an $85 billion industry in the U.S. alone, which is much bigger, wealthier, and more powerful than any religious or grassroots organization. That said, in dealing with the gambling issue, we believe our best strategy is to prioritize by picking and choosing our battles carefully. To use an analogy, like firefighters, our goal is to determine which part of the “fire” poses the most dangerous threat, do what we can to extinguish it, and then move on to other areas.

This is why we’ve chosen to “sound the alarm” with regard to Internet gambling. At this point, we should make it clear that we are, in fact, opposed to *all* forms of gambling. However, it’s our belief that Internet gambling presents the most invasive and addictive form of gambling, considering the fact that with the click of a mouse, anyone can access over 3,000 virtual casinos, opening the door to financial loss, damaged relationships, and a host of other problems.

Turning to your comments about the World Trade Organization (WTO), perhaps a word of clarification is in order. When the U.S. signed WTO documents concerning fair trade, our nation had no intention of letting the WTO dictate American policies on Internet gambling. Had this been included in the agreement, the U.S. probably wouldn’t have signed it. Now the WTO is trying to pack more into the agreement than was originally intended. For this reason, we’re encouraging the U.S. Trade Relations committee to oppose this effort by the WTO and, if necessary, to remove the U.S. from the WTO fair trade agreements.

Thanks again for writing. Though there may be points of disagreements, we hope these few thoughts have helped clarify our perspective. Best wishes to you in the days ahead.

Focus on the Family

[whangarei]

[ QUOTE ]
Also, I received an email from FoF today. Check it out:

...



[/ QUOTE ]

Actually a pretty reasonable response and strategy given their beliefs. Except for the WTO part which is laughable. And the part about the extreme dangers of IG, which I think the recent British study soundly refutes.

[poker007]

hi

I am a christian myself and I have accepted Jesus as my saviour.

Earlier in this thread someone made some remarks about certain christian "leaders" and their sins. First of all I don't know if christians sin less than other people. I think best case (for christians) is that they do sin less on average than non-christians. But that's not the difference between christians and non-christians. The difference is that christians have accepted Jesus as their saviour and that he takes their sins away and they will not be judged on judgement day (that's what the bible says) and they get eternal life .

Anyway I do play poker and although I hold to a literal interpretation of the bible I do know that the word poker is not mentioned in it. I think that if some people don't want to play it that's fine , but they should not try to enforce their opinion onto everyone else. I personally won't encourage anyone to play it.

I do realize that there can be problems related to poker like debts, addiction, "bad" behaviour and others. And as pokerplayers we shouldn't ignore those issues. But those things don't happen only in poker. All of those issues are quite frequent outside poker too and I think that poker is only responsible for a minor % of all those issues.


I do want to say something about the WTO too. I am very certain that the WTO is a bad organization and that it would be good if it would disappear. You might think the WTO is good atm cause it might help you with poker (to keep online poker legal), but the WTO has been and will enforce many things upon all nations that have joined it without that all nations have to agree. The WTO, UN and such are pretty dangerous organizations cause they escape all democratic control ..... noone is checking what they are doing. One example the WTO wants to force upon us is the "codex alimentarius" .... they want to tell us what we can and can't eat.

[ubercuber]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
lol. Now I know how the Muslim's feel when a few douchebags claim to speak for all Muslims. Please don't lump all "Christians" in with these tards.

I was a minister at a non-denom church until about a year ago and I could give two $hits whether or not the 10 commandments is displayed.

[/ QUOTE ]

And we are surprised that you aren't still a preacher???

[/ QUOTE ]

Ha! I was thinking the same thing. Never met a preacher that used the word "tards" (or douchebag for that matter, but I don't find that offensive).

[ubercuber]

I was under the impression that we gain way more out of our involvement with WTO than pretty much everybody else.

Is withdrawing from the WTO as simple as FOF makes it sound?

[DeadMoneyDad]

[ QUOTE ]

I was under the impression that we gain way more out of our involvement with WTO than pretty much everybody else.

Is withdrawing from the WTO as simple as FOF makes it sound?

[/ QUOTE ]

Really depends on your perspective.

For Bush to threaten to do it is pretty much meaningless given he is a lame duck and Trade pacts may be considered by some "foreign policy." I don't remember but did the Senate do anyting when the US joined the WTO, I remember the sucessor organization never got through the Senate?

WTO info (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Trade_Organization)


D$D

[poker007]

[ QUOTE ]

I was under the impression that we gain way more out of our involvement with WTO than pretty much everybody else.

Is withdrawing from the WTO as simple as FOF makes it sound?

[/ QUOTE ]


It is easy to leave .... that's not the issue. (you just tell everyone that you are no longer part of the WTO lol )

The issue is that there would no doubt be consequences because almost all the nations are in the WTO these days and it would be difficult for any intellectual property to be protected outside the USA without being in the WTO. There would be imo consequences shortterm and longterm, anyone who tells otherwise is lying. But in the end they can be overcome, they are not a huge issue. The USA would just have to make agreements between them and individual nations (as in the "old" days) which would be no problem cause the USA is still the largest economy (you would have to be an idiot to not want to make a deal with the USA ).

However the real question is this "would it be the right thing to do to leave?". And my answer is yes without any doubt. It would be good for all "normal" USA citizens. The main issue now is that the USA government is nothing more than a WTO slave. They can say whatever they want in congress but in the end the WTO decides. This can never be a good thing. Also many things the WTO does happen in secret (which is another bad thing). Noone knows what exactly is decided there (i am guessing not even the president ).

Again I fully understand that pokerplayers who want to play online might have a different opinion atm about the WTO. But there are other ways to fight the UIGEA imo. You don't need the WTO. Every time you want something from the WTO they will take alot more from you .... .

To compare it with poker ... lets say you sign up for 50% rakeback at a site and then suddenly the site changes the agreement and gives you less and less rakeback and charging you fees without asking you anything. That's basically how the WTO operates. They make you sign an agreement and then add or change it without giving you a chance to agree or disagree. (in poker you can change sites, however with the WTO you can't change to another organization .... you might as well just leave ).

One of the plans of WTO is the codex alimentarius , most people have no idea what it is and I didn't either till a few months ago. I have asked several politicians about it and have received no answer at all. But what I found out about it is that it will be a mandatory standard for all nations who are in the WTO. If a country refuses to comply they can not appeal to the WTO for anything , they will lose every single case cause they are not codex compliant. To make it worse this law is not a regular law , but can be compared to laws from the 19th century as in everything not permitted is forbidden and the law can not be overturned by your government or congress. It will stand above all other laws and will have to be enforced (if not you run into problems with the WTO ). The idea right now is to make it mandatory at the end of 2009. Part of the index outlaws almost all vitamins, it reintroduces certain dangerous pesticides, it allows imported food to contain certain dangerous substances and a whole list of bad things. Basically vitamins and minerals are classified as poison under the codex and most will be forbidden (as in illegal just like drugs is now). This is of course a very dangerous law ..... unfortunately it happens all in secret and almost noone seems to know anything about it.
As individual country you have only one choice if you don't want this index ..... leave the WTO unless you can get enough support to change it (but knowing the WTO this will be tough).

[Legislurker]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

I was under the impression that we gain way more out of our involvement with WTO than pretty much everybody else.

Is withdrawing from the WTO as simple as FOF makes it sound?

[/ QUOTE ]


It is easy to leave .... that's not the issue. (you just tell everyone that you are no longer part of the WTO lol )

The issue is that there would no doubt be consequences because almost all the nations are in the WTO these days and it would be difficult for any intellectual property to be protected outside the USA without being in the WTO. There would be imo consequences shortterm and longterm, anyone who tells otherwise is lying. But in the end they can be overcome, they are not a huge issue. The USA would just have to make agreements between them and individual nations (as in the "old" days) which would be no problem cause the USA is still the largest economy (you would have to be an idiot to not want to make a deal with the USA ).

However the real question is this "would it be the right thing to do to leave?". And my answer is yes without any doubt. It would be good for all "normal" USA citizens. The main issue now is that the USA government is nothing more than a WTO slave. They can say whatever they want in congress but in the end the WTO decides. This can never be a good thing. Also many things the WTO does happen in secret (which is another bad thing). Noone knows what exactly is decided there (i am guessing not even the president ).

Again I fully understand that pokerplayers who want to play online might have a different opinion atm about the WTO. But there are other ways to fight the UIGEA imo. You don't need the WTO. Every time you want something from the WTO they will take alot more from you .... .

To compare it with poker ... lets say you sign up for 50% rakeback at a site and then suddenly the site changes the agreement and gives you less and less rakeback and charging you fees without asking you anything. That's basically how the WTO operates. They make you sign an agreement and then add or change it without giving you a chance to agree or disagree. (in poker you can change sites, however with the WTO you can't change to another organization .... you might as well just leave ).

One of the plans of WTO is the codex alimentarius , most people have no idea what it is and I didn't either till a few months ago. I have asked several politicians about it and have received no answer at all. But what I found out about it is that it will be a mandatory standard for all nations who are in the WTO. If a country refuses to comply they can not appeal to the WTO for anything , they will lose every single case cause they are not codex compliant. To make it worse this law is not a regular law , but can be compared to laws from the 19th century as in everything not permitted is forbidden and the law can not be overturned by your government or congress. It will stand above all other laws and will have to be enforced (if not you run into problems with the WTO ). The idea right now is to make it mandatory at the end of 2009. Part of the index outlaws almost all vitamins, it reintroduces certain dangerous pesticides, it allows imported food to contain certain dangerous substances and a whole list of bad things. Basically vitamins and minerals are classified as poison under the codex and most will be forbidden (as in illegal just like drugs is now). This is of course a very dangerous law ..... unfortunately it happens all in secret and almost noone seems to know anything about it.
As individual country you have only one choice if you don't want this index ..... leave the WTO unless you can get enough support to change it (but knowing the WTO this will be tough).

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't know if youre troll or a shill, it doesn't matter. Leave the WTO, thats real smart. Lets just have the largest glabal contraction since the Black Death. Make everyone poorer. Lose jobs. Maybe a few countries break down in riots and famine. Just destroy the greatest tool of prosperity and progress from the 20th century. Real Christlike buddy.

[whangarei]

[ QUOTE ]
Real Christlike buddy.

[/ QUOTE ]

From the content of his posts he identifies himself as a member of the religious right. Why would you expect him to act Christlike?

[IndyFish]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

I was under the impression that we gain way more out of our involvement with WTO than pretty much everybody else.

Is withdrawing from the WTO as simple as FOF makes it sound?

[/ QUOTE ]


It is easy to leave .... that's not the issue. (you just tell everyone that you are no longer part of the WTO lol )

The issue is that there would no doubt be consequences because almost all the nations are in the WTO these days and it would be difficult for any intellectual property to be protected outside the USA without being in the WTO. There would be imo consequences shortterm and longterm, anyone who tells otherwise is lying. But in the end they can be overcome, they are not a huge issue. The USA would just have to make agreements between them and individual nations (as in the "old" days) which would be no problem cause the USA is still the largest economy (you would have to be an idiot to not want to make a deal with the USA ).

However the real question is this "would it be the right thing to do to leave?". And my answer is yes without any doubt. It would be good for all "normal" USA citizens. The main issue now is that the USA government is nothing more than a WTO slave. They can say whatever they want in congress but in the end the WTO decides. This can never be a good thing. Also many things the WTO does happen in secret (which is another bad thing). Noone knows what exactly is decided there (i am guessing not even the president ).

Again I fully understand that pokerplayers who want to play online might have a different opinion atm about the WTO. But there are other ways to fight the UIGEA imo. You don't need the WTO. Every time you want something from the WTO they will take alot more from you .... .

To compare it with poker ... lets say you sign up for 50% rakeback at a site and then suddenly the site changes the agreement and gives you less and less rakeback and charging you fees without asking you anything. That's basically how the WTO operates. They make you sign an agreement and then add or change it without giving you a chance to agree or disagree. (in poker you can change sites, however with the WTO you can't change to another organization .... you might as well just leave ).

One of the plans of WTO is the codex alimentarius , most people have no idea what it is and I didn't either till a few months ago. I have asked several politicians about it and have received no answer at all. But what I found out about it is that it will be a mandatory standard for all nations who are in the WTO. If a country refuses to comply they can not appeal to the WTO for anything , they will lose every single case cause they are not codex compliant. To make it worse this law is not a regular law , but can be compared to laws from the 19th century as in everything not permitted is forbidden and the law can not be overturned by your government or congress. It will stand above all other laws and will have to be enforced (if not you run into problems with the WTO ). The idea right now is to make it mandatory at the end of 2009. Part of the index outlaws almost all vitamins, it reintroduces certain dangerous pesticides, it allows imported food to contain certain dangerous substances and a whole list of bad things. Basically vitamins and minerals are classified as poison under the codex and most will be forbidden (as in illegal just like drugs is now). This is of course a very dangerous law ..... unfortunately it happens all in secret and almost noone seems to know anything about it.
As individual country you have only one choice if you don't want this index ..... leave the WTO unless you can get enough support to change it (but knowing the WTO this will be tough).

[/ QUOTE ]

Read the following link closely and then take a deep breath. web page (http://www.crnusa.org/pdfs/FAQS_Codex_Joint102505.pdf)

"...the US is under absolutely no obligation to change its existing laws and replace them with Codex guidelines..."

We also apparently already participate in the Codex.

The sky is not falling. Your God will protect you. Just relax...

[ktulu22]

[ QUOTE ]
he takes their sins away and they will not be judged on judgement day (that's what the bible says) and they get eternal life .



[/ QUOTE ]

Simply unfathomable that so many people really feel that this is reality

[Steven_1974]

LOL I think this poker007 guy is a troll. He's clearly getting his marching orders on the WTO from some right wing I believe in conspiracy group.

[poker007]

Why all the name calling ? It's not cause you don't agree with me that you have to start name calling.

Maybe you should read up on the issue before you make any such comments.

I read up on it and this codex is a bad thing. I read that link, but it doesn't really answer any questions. It just says that the USA is currently not using the codex... . And it says the USA has some law that protects against it "DSHAE". Maybe you should know that right now there are 5 bills in congress trying to remove "DSHAE". Your link doesn't answer the question on whether or not it is mandatory in 2010.
Your link does say that any imported food can not be stopped at the border if it is codex compliant (something i have said in my previous post).

I have been to the WTO site itself and searched for the document, but it seems buried under like 1000 other documents which makes it almost impossible to find. I find it odd that such an important document can not be found right away on their own site.

And btw I am not a member of any right wing organization. And I think it's not smart to listen to someone else telling "everything is ok" or "this is a bad thing". Read up on it yourself , that's what I did. And as far as I see noone has denied that minerals and vitamins are classified as poisons under this codex ..... .

[TheEngineer]

[ QUOTE ]
Why all the name calling ? It's not cause you don't agree with me that you have to start name calling.

Maybe you should read up on the issue before you make any such comments.

I read up on it and this codex is a bad thing. I read that link, but it doesn't really answer any questions. It just says that the USA is currently not using the codex... . And it says the USA has some law that protects against it "DSHAE". Maybe you should know that right now there are 5 bills in congress trying to remove "DSHAE". Your link doesn't answer the question on whether or not it is mandatory in 2010.
Your link does say that any imported food can not be stopped at the border if it is codex compliant (something i have said in my previous post).

I have been to the WTO site itself and searched for the document, but it seems buried under like 1000 other documents which makes it almost impossible to find. I find it odd that such an important document can not be found right away on their own site.

And btw I am not a member of any right wing organization. And I think it's not smart to listen to someone else telling "everything is ok" or "this is a bad thing". Read up on it yourself , that's what I did. And as far as I see noone has denied that minerals and vitamins are classified as poisons under this codex ..... .

[/ QUOTE ]

So, you posted to tell us you "heard something is bad"? That's fascinating and all, but can you provide any actual evidence? Cite whatever it is you read, perhaps? Thanks.